Hercules is evil!!!

[Luna]

This is a tale from many moons ago back when Luna was sweet, innocent, and thought all people were nice.

I was working at Suncoast at the time which was a video store (part of the Sam Goody corp...).

Usually I was alone in the store since it was such a low volume. I was calling reservations or something at the front counter...maybe special orders - not sure. I saw a woman walk in to the store. I waved hi to her and let her know I'd be right with her. She smiled and walked over to the Disney section of VHS. (This was back when DVD was non-existant.)

I quickly finished my call with phone customer and walk over to ask lady if she needs help. In her hand was a Suncoast bag so I figured she had a return.

The woman rounded on me, face red and shaking. I remember taking a step back b/c I didn't understand why she had gone Jeckyll & Hyde on me.

The following yelling fit isn't 100% word for word as I can't recall that - but I'll put it as well as I can remember.

SC: I want to return this filth! *shoves bag towards me*
Luna: *looks in bag* Disneys' Hercules? I know it really wasn't that great but...
SC: You're forcing children to watch movies telling them there are mutiple Gods and Goddesses! There is only ONE GOD!
Luna: Um, that's what the movie is about. It's Greek mythology.
SC: It's FILTH!

Now, I took the VHS out of the bag - and guess what. It's open. My SM and my DM just had the biggest freak out hissy fit last store meeting about people allowing customers to return open product that wasn't defective. They even went so far as to say they'd start checking all the stuff in the back and if it wasn't defective - they'd write up the person who allowed it to be returned.

*sigh*

So I argued with the woman about it being open. I suggested she read the back of the VHS before buying next time, but ultimately I just wanted to get the angry screaming woman OUT of my store.

She demanded an exchange for a "good family film". I told her to go find something.

She came up with Grease. :confused: Now I just couldn't help myself.

Luna: Grease?
SC: Yes! A good family film, not trash like that! *points to poor Hercules VHS on counter*
Luna: *giggles* So a greek mythology cartoon is bad, but a movie about kids dropping out of school, smoking, getting pregnant...that's okay? Have you ever listened to the lyrics in Greased Lightening?
SC: It's a good family film!
Luna: Sure it is. Here's your receipt. Have a nice day.

I mean I expected her to come up with Anne of Green Gables, or Pollyanna or something more conservative. Not Grease. Heh.

I did shrink wrap and put the Hercules out on the sales floor again so boss wouldn't see I had allowed a return on it. :)

[Kogarashi]

You know, if this had happened yesterday, I would've been willing to bet the lady would be back in two days later to return Grease for the same reason. :doh:

[Gurndigarn]

You know, if this had happened yesterday, I would've been willing to bet the lady would be back in two days later to return Grease for the same reason. :doh:

Possibly, but maybe not. Some people glom onto bits and pieces of a Cause, but don't really know much about the whole of it, or even think though what it really means. This happens a lot in politics*, and isn't rare in religion.


* "No, we can't have a landfill anywhere near me. HEY! WHY DID MY TRASH BILL GO UP? WHAT'S THIS 'ENVIRONMENTAL/FUEL SURCHARGE? I'M GONNA CALL MY REPRESENTATIVE!"

[Imogene]

Ha! Hercules is indeed trash, but not for the reasons she spouted. How about the destruction Disney pulled on the whole of Greek mythology?

Hercules was born half human, half god, because Zeus raped a human. Hera, Zeus' wife, at no point loved Hercules; she would not have been concerned about his being taken from Olympus. Dis was actually a nice guy, just got the short end of the stick. Pegasus was created where the Gorgon Medusa's blood touched the river Styx. Hercules was on the Argos, there was no way Philoctetes could've had the mast of the Argos if Hercules wasn't already a hero. The Fates didn't cut mortal's threads of life, that would be the Norns. The god you never wanted to piss off was Hera, not Dis. Hell, she plucked the 100 eyeballs from her friend! Her friend! And put them on the peacock's tail.

And so on. Otherwise, Hercules is a great movie.
(Sorry, Greek mythology buff)

[Becks]

Whoever at Disney came up with that story line should be forced to take classes in Greek mythology every year...and pay for it out of his/her/their own pocket(s). I can't think of the last time a kid's movie made me so mad. (I have an interest in Greek mythology...took a class in high school...still have the notebook somewhere...)

Let's hope that woman never sees how Disney draws most of their female characters... :eek:

[Myra]

Let's hope that woman never sees how Disney draws most of their female characters... :eek:
Or watches the original Little Mermaid, complete with the original packaging. (Supposedly, the castle on the original box is full of male genitalia, and the priest gets "happy" when performing the wedding on Fake Ursula and Mind-Controlled Eric. I haven't seen the movie in forever, so I dunno if this is true or not.)

[Lobo]

Let's hope she never watches The Lion King (http://snopes.com/disney/films/lionking.htm) since apparently the stars in it spell some interesting things.

[Becks]

Or watches the original Little Mermaid, complete with the original packaging. (Supposedly, the castle on the original box is full of male genitalia, and the priest gets "happy" when performing the wedding on Fake Ursula and Mind-Controlled Eric. I haven't seen the movie in forever, so I dunno if this is true or not.)

Myra, I have seen both things you mentioned...and just in case anyone was wondering, it was BEFORE I had such a dirty mind. :ashamed:

[Kogarashi]

::shrugs:: Meh, I didn't care about the rearrangement of Greek mythology in Hercules much (and I'm a major mythology/legend/folklore buff). My big beef is with Disney's mangling of The Black Cauldron. ::twitchtwitch::

[that_chick_in_I.T.]

Yeah, I just Googled the lyrics for "Greased Lightning" :lol: I guess anything that relates to the 50's is considered to be wholesome and family - even "a real p:censored: ssy wagon".

[lordlundar]

How about the destruction Disney pulled on the whole of Greek mythology?

It's even sadder when people take Disney's version as canon.

I'm still trying to convince my sister that hades was, for lack of a better term, a beaurocrat.:banghead:

[Kogarashi]

It's even sadder when people take Disney's version as canon.

Now that is sad. Disney almost invariably mangles stuff they adapt. The degree to which they mangle it and how tolerable the end result are what varies. Little Mermaid? Acceptable. Pocahontes? Not so much.

[powerboy]

Don't ever talk bad about Grease. only joking. It is good movie, and if I had children, I would watch it with them. It is just like now-a-days, with teenagers getting pregant and what not.

[friendofjimmyk]

Yeah, I just Googled the lyrics for "Greased Lightning" :lol: I guess anything that relates to the 50's is considered to be wholesome and family - even "a real p:censored: ssy wagon".

Also:

"You are supreme the chicks'll cream for grease lightning"

I am sure they are not talking butter cream! Or ice cream!

[friendofjimmyk]

ANother lyric from Grease:

"You better shape up, cause I need a man,"

Oh yeah, blatant sexuality is always so much better than the mere thought that there may be more than one god or even goddesses

[RecoveringKinkoid]

How about the song where Rizzo's singing about why she puts out?:lol:

[PuckishOne]

How about the song where Rizzo's singing about why she puts out?

"I could stay home every night
Wait around for Mr Right
Take cold showers every day
And throw my life away
For a dream that won't come true."

Sounds perfectly normal to me. :D

[friendofjimmyk]

How about the song where Rizzo's singing about why she puts out?:lol:

Or the fact that Rizzo thought she was pregnant but she wasn't quite sure who the father was!

Good times for the entire family!

[dispatch]

I'll never forget having my innocent little childhood mind scarred and losing my faith in disney after hearing the real endings to grim's fairy tales.

and don't even get me started about "sword in the stone"

[Kogarashi]

and don't even get me started about "sword in the stone"

Actually, Disney's The Sword in the Stone is a fairly decent adaptation of the first section of T.H. White's The Once and Future King, so I think you'd have to take it up with Mr. White. I took my senior course for my English BA on variations of the legend of King Arthur.

[dispatch]

I was more upset with how they portrayed certain characters, but then again, it's disney

[Kogarashi]

Thing is, those personalities are quite similar to the personalities from the novel. But anyway, I can understand your gripe.

[air914]

So I know this is an old post but I thought I'd add my thoughts anyway.

People like this give a bad name to Christians....... I thought Hercules was a cute movie but no it didn't represent Greek mythology well at all.... for that I think the TV Show Hercules was a bit better.... :)

I was shocked when as a teenager I went to see Grease the play..... like the live show. That's when I really heard the lyrics and the language..... NOT a family film by any way shape or means! Not just the lyrics to the song but there's a ton of profanity and sexual inuendo just in the dialogue. I still love the movie but yeah - hmmm maybe they shouldn't have made "Grease" the musical that they are auditioning for on TV right now.... so many little kids will want to go see it. Although I was SHOCKED to see a parent that brought what must have been their 8 year old to see Hair.... um there's an entire scene where the whole cast stands on stage NAKED! And there's sex, drugs, profanity, sexual inuendo..... not what I would consider kid-friendly entertainment. It's no wonder these kids grow up to be idiots.......

[Sailornight6]

on a side note, Hercules is the Roman name for this chracter. it is actually harakles.

[Strange Magic]

What kills me is the people who are looking for a Disney kids movie for historical accuracy ...
and just whats wrong with a cartoon show taking libertys for entertainments sake. Not everything in life has to be good for you and teach something.Fun for funs sake is a good thing from time to time.

[Imogene]

on a side note, Hercules is the Roman name for this chracter. it is actually harakles.

Heracles, if I'm not mistaken. But, again, if I'm not mistaken, there's a lot of name mistakes in the movie. Philoctetes, for instance, was human, and was at the battle for Troy with Hercules. In fact, Phil was Hercules' apprentice.

Megara was only one of Hercules' many wives, and died before Herc, which made Herc go crazy.
I want to say the river guardian, Nessus, was indeed a centaur, but not a river guardian in myth.
Narcissus was NOT a god, and would not have made it to Olympus.
Amphitryon (Herc's father in the movie) was a war general, not a farmer!

The Hydra was not in a cave just outside Thebes. Just, not. It was in the Elysian fields, if I remember correctly, and was fought by another greek hero whose name escapes me, who was trying to save a giant (I think...)

[Sailornight6]

your are correct. disney's movie made me twitch but remember there was another heracles on at the same time...with a certian hunk on it

[Imogene]

That Hercules (Kevin Sorbo) spawned the whole Xena series. Yup, that's right, Xena was a guest spot on an episode of Hercules, and, as I understand it, people liked the episode so much, they spun it off to another show.

[Seshat]

And so on. Otherwise, Hercules is a great movie.
(Sorry, Greek mythology buff)

Storytelling buff here.

I think the character who really drove the movie Hercules was Meg. From the moment we met her to the moment she died, it was her decisions that drove the plot. Hades wanted to kill Hercules, sure, but Hercules wasn't making decisions that made Hades act. Meg was.

Hercules' goal required no conflict. Oh, plenty of combat! Sure. But no conflict.

He wanted to find out who he was: well, that was easy. Quick trip to the temple. Talk to Daddy.
He wanted to train to become a hero: that was easy. Talk to the satyr guy Phil. Phil doesn't want to train him. Ooh, an opportunity for conflict! Oh, Daddy resolved it. Bah.

He wants to be a hero. Our first conflict! He finds a damsel in distress, but .. she can handle it! Does this bring him into conflict with our antagonist, finally? No. It brings Meg into conflict with the antagonist, though.

And Meg continues to be in conflict with Hades, while Hercules blithely continues monster-bashing and being totally unaware that he's even IN conflict with Hades. Monster-bashing isn't even a challenge for Herc. He doesn't change, grow, develop as a character. He just gets rich and famous.

Herc only gets into a situation where he has to make a character-developing decision at the climax of the movie, in the scene where Phil informs Hercules that he saw Meg with Hades, and the scenes following. And even that situation was caused by Meg's and Phil's decisions, not Hercules'.

However, from that point on, the film is driven by Hercules' and Hades' decisions, and Hercules becomes the plot-driving protagonist.


What I did enjoy, from a storytelling perspective, was the Disney use of the Greek Chorus. Literally. :) The Muses were an excellent choice for the role, too.

[Pagan]

The Fates didn't cut mortal's threads of life, that would be the Norns.

(Sorry, Greek mythology buff)


Another mythology buff. Plus, I'm Celtic, Pictish, Norman, and Viking, so Norse mythology is part of my heritage. The Fates (Greek) and the Norns (Norse) are somewhat counterparts. Atropos does cut the thread of each person.

Greek - Fates
Clotho - spins the Thread of Life
Lachesis - determines length of the yarn
Atropos - snips the yarn (the final one).

Norse - Norns (also tend Yggdrasil and weave the never-ending Destiny tapestries)
Urd - fate
Verdandi - present
Skuld - future (She's also a part-time Valkyrie)

[Gawdzillers]

Forcing children to watch the movie?

[TwoScoopsSciath]

Oh my god. People like her give my religion a bad name.

[Imogene]

Urd - fate
Verdandi - present
Skuld - future (She's also a part-time Valkyrie)

Huzzah! So, have I been shown up? Or proven right? *a bit confused*
Also: The Norns were used to name the characters in Ah My Goddess, just in case you anime geeks didn't know. Urd and Skuld are obvious, but Verdandi had to be changed because of issues with the Japanese language (no r's, no v's, swapped for an L and a B, to become Belldandy)

And again, Huzzah!

[Lace Neil Singer]

Or the fact that Rizzo thought she was pregnant but she wasn't quite sure who the father was!

Good times for the entire family!

What about the Sandra Dee song?

"Look at me, I'm Sandra Dee
Lousy with virginity
Won't go to bed
Til I'm legally wed
I can't, I'm Sandra Dee."

:lol:

And I never watched the cartoon of Hercules, cuz I'm also a mythology buff and I wanted to keep my blood pressure down. I mean, Hera HATED Heracle's guts! She made his life difficult in every way, like she did with every one of her husband's bastard children. And Heracles was named by his mother, in an attempt to appease Hera; the name means "Glory of Hera". Heracles was given his labours for killing his wife and children, while under the influence of a fit of madness sent by Hera. The king he was doing the labours for was a coward and a total SC; he originally set 10 labours, but demanded that Heracles complete 2 more tasks cuz he said that he hadn't done 2 of them right.

[Geek King]

Norse - Norns (also tend Yggdrasil and weave the never-ending Destiny tapestries)
Urd - fate
Verdandi - present
Skuld - future (She's also a part-time Valkyrie)

What? I thought she was called Belldandy. :angel:

--Geek King, your ever-lovin' Anime fruitcake

[Imogene]

What? I thought she was called Belldandy. :angel:

*points up at previous post*

[flicksgirl]

I have had this one a few times at my store. Had some lady in ranting and raving when her husband wanted to reserve "Da Vinci Code". She said he could watch it but not to let thier son watch it because it would put ideas in his head, inside my head i was thinking god forbid the boy have an idea. She then went on a 10 minute rant about the movies she believed were evil, you know the usual Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings pretty much anything that had magic or fantasy in it. I had to smile as her husband rolled his eyes, then i handed her her movie and in my best happy place voice said "Yes fantasy is horrible. Heres your copy of Cars about talking vehicles that fall in love have a good night.

[Geek King]

*points up at previous post*

Ach! True enough Juwl, you beat me to the punch. I bow before your worthy knowledge of good anime.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

--Geek King, who desperately hopes all records of the Dragonball universe after the origonal series will be lost. To skeet shooting.

[Gurndigarn]

Also: The Norns were used to name the characters in Ah My Goddess, just in case you anime geeks didn't know. Urd and Skuld are obvious, but Verdandi had to be changed because of issues with the Japanese language (no r's, no v's, swapped for an L and a B, to become Belldandy)

Does Peorth show up in this arrangement anywhere?

[Imogene]

I bow before your worthy knowledge of good anime.

*blushes* No need to bow to me...
I used to be the Anime geek for the Chesterfield store, I scared the Nice AM with my knowledge of anime, and he'd ask me how much of it I'd seen... "Enough. But not this series..."
"Well, then, how do you know so much about the series?"
"I keep my eyes and ears open for info on anime series to look into."

Gurndigarn:
Yes, Peorth is indeed involved in Ah My Goddess. She is the duty coordinator for the goddesses. Basically, she is the mouthpiece for God (If I'm not mistaken, that's her position) She makes sure Heaven runs smoothly.

[tollbaby]

According to Wikipedia (actual source - Kerenyi, Carl (1959). The Heroes of the Greeks. ):

In Greek mythology, the Lernaean Hydra was an ancient nameless serpent-like chthonic water beast that possessed numerous heads— the poets mention more heads than the vase-painters could paint— and poisonous breath (Hyginus, 30). The Hydra of Lerna was killed by Heracles as one of his Twelve Labours. Its lair was the lake of Lerna in the Argolid, though archaeology has borne out the myth that the sacred site was older even than the Mycenaean city of Argos, for Lerna was the site of the myth of the Danaids. Beneath the waters was an entrance to the Underworld, and the Hydra was its guardian (Kerenyi 1959, p. 143).

;) Also a greek mythology buff :o

[Imogene]

Okay, so I was partly right...The hydra definitely wasn't just outside Thebes.

[tollbaby]

nor were there two little boy-shaped demons clamoring for Heracles' help "Jeepers, mister, you are are STRONG!" *snicker*

[Gurndigarn]

Gurndigarn:
Yes, Peorth is indeed involved in Ah My Goddess. She is the duty coordinator for the goddesses. Basically, she is the mouthpiece for God (If I'm not mistaken, that's her position) She makes sure Heaven runs smoothly.

I think you misunderstood me. It's not OMG I was asking about (I've followed the series); it was the norse mythos, which I'm relatively lacking in.

[Tria]

What I did enjoy, from a storytelling perspective, was the Disney use of the Greek Chorus. Literally. :) The Muses were an excellent choice for the role, too.

And that's the gospel truuuuuuuttttthhhhhh!

[Imogene]

it was the norse mythos, which I'm relatively lacking in.
Oops... well, according to http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4324/goddesses.html
, Peorth is a Runic letter. Sorry for that misunderstanding.

[BusyBee]

Let's not forget the very first big musical number in Grease...
Sandy's lines basically say "We had a great time together doing fun, wholesome things!"
Danny's lines basically say "Oh I totally got some action with this hot chick over the summer!" :rolleyes:

[Spiffy McMoron]

Sandy's lines basically say "We had a great time together doing fun, wholesome things!"
Danny's lines basically say "Oh I totally got some action with this hot chick over the summer!" :rolleyes:

There's a difference between the two?

:devil:

[Skrae]

So forcing one's religion on someone, which may or may not be correct (won't go into that) is much better than telling a story of a hero, solely because of the fact that it's based on Greek mythology, a polytheistic religion, that anyone with an IQ over 5 should know. Right. Logic is not only out to lunch, but also on an indefinite vacation period.