Way to Get me On board

[NateTheChops]

On top of my job hunt, I've been trying to get into a bit of weekly therapy. Much as I love to unload online, there are things I need to get off my chest with a professional. Particularly since my stress has been leading to more meltdowns in the last few weeks.

Well, someone recommended a program at a hospital one town over. It would have been five days a week starting at nine in the morning, and today (the 31st for late readers) I was to go there at eight for orientation purposes.

Now, I was reluctant as all hell to do this, because I'm all ready kind of stuck in a group living situation. I don't want to leave a group to have to talk to a group, since it's basically the same thing that was causing my meltdowns to begin with. But I went just to show that I'm not dismissing leads. (Why is it I always to stick my hand into fire to prove to other people that it does in fact burn?)

Anyway, I show up, and there's this secretary.

Secretary: What's your name?
Me: NateSean.
Secretary: Daniel, okay I'll be right with you.

Strike One. Forgets my name not even in the space of five seconds since I told it to her. I said it clearly and as loudly as if I were speaking to you in a library.

She brings out the paperwork. When she returns with the paperwork, I asked her what the program exactly was about, because it wasn't explained to me. And pretty much it's a day program for people with substance abuse and mental health issues. It starts at runs for five hours, blah, blah, blah. Basically, not for me.

Me: Okay, well, I wasn't sure I wanted to do this before and I'm pretty sure now, so I'll be leaving.

Secretary: Well, may I ask why you were referred here?

Strike Two: None of your business.

Me: It doesn't matter because I'm leaving.

Secretary: (in a very patronizing tone) Well I'm just going to call whoever referred to and tell them that you're refusing to participate.

Strike Three: Threatening me.

Me: Um...ma'am, I'm here of my own volition. No one has the power of attorney over me and I came here of my own free will. So you can call whoever you like. I'm out of here.

[teh_blumchenkinder]

That's like a bad comedy routine! :lol: besides, it's not like she'd even make sense to them. Daniel? Really? :lol: Yeah, way to go 'lady.'

[Sapphire Silk]

I agree with everything you said about your experience, except one thing.

The lady asked, "May I ask why you were referred here."

Yes, it is none of her business. But she did ask politely, and you were kind of short with her (though I hardly blame you given she couldn't get your name right).

A better answer might have been, "I'm self referred, and this group doesn't address the problem I'm having. Therefore, I will look elsewhere."

I've known other people who've had this issue. Because so many people with mental health issues self medicate with drugs and alcohol, the assumption is ALL do.

Well, mental health care is not one size fits all, and addictions treatment is not appropriate for someone who does not have an addictions problem.

I do wish they would stop pushing that on people who clearly don't need it.

[LillFilly]

Reminds me of when I was referred to this teen therapy group because I seemed to have anger issues. The people I was grouped with were there for assault, stealing, carjacking, etc. Me...I just was always arguing with my parents. I didn't fit in at all and was bullied by the other teens. Luckily there was a visiting psychologist one session who realized I didn't belong and took me on as a client. Turned-out I had mild depression and, well, I'm better now. I hope you find a therapy that works for you.

[AccountingDrone]

Heh, back in 1998 I got 3 days off and a mandatory consult with a shrink because some moron at work was 'scared' by my apparent knowledge about blowing stuff up and guns :rolleyes: and went to HR about me ... [a coworker and I had been talking about some car bombing or another and I mentioned that was why federal buildings put bollards up but that you still needed to pay attention to what was around you, people leaving packages sitting on the ground and such. All information that various governmental agencies put forth as safety information.]

So off I go to the shrink ... who finds out that i am an army brat, a military dependent and had a state concealed carry permit, a current hunting license and previously worked in security as an armed guard - and held 7 separate security clearances. I got cleared instantly.

[Eisa]

That reminds me of how I keep looking for books about treating comorbid disorders. I have more than one mental disorder. It would be nice to find something about how to deal with all of them. Instead, I can only find stuff about a mental disorder and substance abuse. I'm not a substance abuser. I've never been one. Tad annoying.

I wish you luck on finding a better treatment option, NateSean! :D

I'm looking myself...my last therapist DID refer me, but unfortunately, I now live 5 miles away from it. :( I can't really walk that.

[dalesys]

Me: Um...ma'am, I'm here of my own volition. No one has the power of attorney over me and I came here of my own free will. So you can call whoever you like. I'm out of here.

It's rather funny when the feeders on the PIC (Prison Industrial Complex) discover that their Club-O-Doom™ is a Nerf Bat.

I learned a lot from a program I was in where 90%+ where mandatory attendance. Mostly because I was there for me, not to impress a court.

[teh_blumchenkinder]

Heh, back in 1998 I got 3 days off and a mandatory consult with a shrink because some moron at work was 'scared' by my apparent knowledge about blowing stuff up and guns :rolleyes: and went to HR about me ...
SNIP
So off I go to the shrink ... who finds out that i am an army brat, a military dependent and had a state concealed carry permit, a current hunting license and previously worked in security as an armed guard - and held 7 separate security clearances. I got cleared instantly.
:rotflmao: That. is. AWESOME! :roll: That's an amazing story, I want it and love it! Hey! Free three-days off! :lol: He must not have been from Texas or something. (Yes, reasonably certain you're not from there either, but point is, place where they're used to stuff like that.) Did you ever tell the dude about some of your other 'qualifications'? I know you're supposed to keep some of that under wraps, naturally, but... inquiring minds and all. :D

[Teskeria]

I have a daughter who is bipolar and when I was talking about her diagnosis with her therapist (she was a minor at the time), she said, Bipolar, depression and Opposition Defiance Disorder (now this is real I understand in adults). When I asked what the last is she said 'well she is always defying authority." I said 'so basically you are saying she behaves like a teenager?" "well, yes" 'perhaps you might consider that she IS a teenager?" The ODD was removed. (BTW like the majority of teens, she outgrew the defiance.)

[Polenicus]

I have a daughter who is bipolar and when I was talking about her diagnosis with her therapist (she was a minor at the time), she said, Bipolar, depression and Opposition Defiance Disorder (now this is real I understand in adults). When I asked what the last is she said 'well she is always defying authority." I said 'so basically you are saying she behaves like a teenager?" "well, yes" 'perhaps you might consider that she IS a teenager?" The ODD was removed. (BTW like the majority of teens, she outgrew the defiance.)

I grew up with a mother who was a clinical counsellor. The teenage years were NOT fun.

The short of it is? EVERYTHING is a disorder. EVERYTHING.

[AccountingDrone]

:rotflmao: That. is. AWESOME! :roll: That's an amazing story, I want it and love it! Hey! Free three-days off! :lol: He must not have been from Texas or something. (Yes, reasonably certain you're not from there either, but point is, place where they're used to stuff like that.) Did you ever tell the dude about some of your other 'qualifications'? I know you're supposed to keep some of that under wraps, naturally, but... inquiring minds and all. :D

Wherever I work always has my full resume, it is their problem if they don't read it.

I can't help what I know, or having a bit darker mindset than some stupid bit of CS fluff who has no real understanding of the real world. I was never sheltered - I had been working from the time I was 16. She was not even part of the original conversation, it was between myself and the woman who shared my office. Besides, if I was going to kill someone or bomb work I sure as hell would not be discussing it with a coworker :roll:

[Seshat]

I've known other people who've had this issue. Because so many people with mental health issues self medicate with drugs and alcohol, the assumption is ALL do.

Yes - we've found that frustrating as well. Without a referral from a family doctor or other medical professional that specifically clears you of being a drug abuser, it can be hard to convince them that yes, your doctor and your pharmacist know and approve of everything you take.

That reminds me of how I keep looking for books about treating comorbid disorders. I have more than one mental disorder. It would be nice to find something about how to deal with all of them.

Anna has that problem. Her psychiatrist finally gave up trying to give her a diagnosis that fits in the DSM: instead, she has a diagnosis that gives the psych the authority to dispense the meds that keep her stable. ;)

We know that. The psych knows that. The family doctor knows that. It doesn't matter that she's not got a 'proper' diagnosis: what matters is that she's functional and her true personality is free.

The short of it is? EVERYTHING is a disorder. EVERYTHING.

Yes, there are behaviour patterns in the DSM which fit just about everything.

I believe there are two criteria for whether you have a mental illness, or are just 'being a teen'/'being yourself'/'a natural thrillseeker'/whatever.

- whether 'you' feel trapped inside the disorder.
As an example, when I have a panic attack, I KNOW it's stupid, I KNOW I'm actually perfectly safe, I KNOW there's no reason to be afraid. But I am afraid, and I can't help it.
In my group therapy sessions, I've described that sort of feeling and had people nodding with perfect understanding - Not necessarily because they have panic attacks, but because they understand the feeling of the "self" being trapped by the disorder.

- whether the disorder negatively impacts your ability to function.
I think I'm ADD or ADHD or something similar. Not bothered to get diagnosed for it yet - I have enough more critical things going on medically.
But I sensory-overload easily. I cannot handle fairs, festivals and the like. I can't handle parties. Strobe lights freak me out. Put the TV on and try to talk to me at the same time and I'm unable to focus on either.



But anyway: that's my personal two criteria for whether something's an illness, or a personality trait.
I think there's something about that in the DSM, as well: it has to cause a impairment in the person's ability to function to be a disorder. If it doesn't, it's personality.

[Dragon_Dreamer]

I got referred to several psychiatric programs because of "ADHD." Everything from a daycamp for children with Bipolar, anti-social, you name it, where I got bullied unmercifully, and even got chased by a girl with a knife! I had to lock myself in the bathroom to get away from her, and you can guess who got in trouble for "provoking" her. Supposedly, the fact that I wouldn't give her part of my lunch when she threatened was "setting her off on purpose."

One of the boys took a tennis racquet, smashed it against the ground until it was mangled, then said he'd do that to my head. One of the last straws for me was when one guy, in attempt to steal a koosh ball from me at a "summer school," smashed my head into a wall.

Thankfully, it was drywall against wide studs, with no insulation. However, on the other side of the studs was a cinderblock wall, and I was DAMNED lucky my head didn't hit a stud. As it was, the wall was left with a beachball sized impression. Of course, I got in trouble for "provoking" him as well.

Same shrink who told my parents to send me to those also had me on a cocktail of Zyprexa, Dexadrine, and Depakote for "ADHD." Then told them that I *needed* to be "sedated" all the time. >.< I pretty much got VERY good at hiding pills. :P The Depakote he told my mother to "just flush" while I was at college, causing my seizures from withdrawal. (That had been the one I'd been scared to just stop on my own. Beware the teen with access to the Pill Guide. :P)

It was only at age 23 that the real diagnosis was reached, when I went on my own to a shrink I actually TRUSTED. Asperger's. Apparently, I'm textbook. And the coping strategies have helped me actually gain some interpersonal skills. Keep in mind I'd been seeing shrinks since the age of 7. >.<

It's been too long for me to sue the medication-happy shrink on my own, and my parents refuse to. He really had them snowballed. I don't think he's still practicing at least. I can give the name out in PM is people want to know who to stay away from in SE PA.


Still bitter. >.<

And yes, my mother was trying to be a shrink during this time. I agree with Polenicus. :P She still regrets the money wasted when I was a kid on all those therapists who didn't in the end actually DO much, especially make the problem worse. But she still trusts him, saying "but they didn't know what it was." :rolleyes: Supposedly, I "outgrew" the ADHD. I still say that's a good sign I *didn't* have it. :P

Mom's now got her RN license, and is focusing on pediatrics, which I think is a *good* thing. From her experiences with me, it's made her more emphatic, and she actually is doing well at helping kids with Aspergers' or similar disorders, in addition to their physical health issues.

[NateTheChops]

Yes, it is none of her business. But she did ask politely, and you were kind of short with her (though I hardly blame you given she couldn't get your name right).

A better answer might have been, "I'm self referred, and this group doesn't address the problem I'm having. Therefore, I will look elsewhere."


True. At the time I just didn't feel like it was open for debate when I said that I wasn't interested. And it didn't seem like any answer I gave her was going to make a difference.

I got referred to several psychiatric programs because of "ADHD."

And incidents very similar to this is pretty much why. It's hard to be polite when you feel like you're being placed in a terrarium just to see how you interact with other specimens.

[dragon_wings]

I have a daughter who is bipolar and when I was talking about her diagnosis with her therapist (she was a minor at the time), she said, Bipolar, depression and Opposition Defiance Disorder (now this is real I understand in adults). When I asked what the last is she said 'well she is always defying authority." I said 'so basically you are saying she behaves like a teenager?" "well, yes" 'perhaps you might consider that she IS a teenager?" The ODD was removed. (BTW like the majority of teens, she outgrew the defiance.)

I was given a similar diagnosis around age 11. Add in ADHD and OCD. I was on meds until I was almost 18 when my mother and I agreed it wasn't helping.

[TawnyMyst]

I was in high school when Columbine happened and they day after I was called into the office and given a three day unexpected vacation and an appointment with the school district shrink before I was allowed to come back. The reason? I was the only female on the school rifle team, one of the best shots, was a Sea Cadet and was on their range team as well. I hung out with gamers and we played D&D and L5R on our lunch breaks. I was kinda bullied and the principal did nothing about it, even though she knew about it. Therefore, I was high risk and needed a psych eval before she felt safe having me at school.

[NateTheChops]

Boy Columbine brings back fun high school memories. Insert sarcasm anywhere you like.

[Captain Trips]

... mental health care is not one size fits all

Yeah, but just try to tell that to insurance companies! They insist that "this symptom will need x number of visits. No more will be authorized." Mental health does NOT yield itself to actuarial tables very well...

[Mishi]

At 14, I had the joy of seeing a psychologist while chasing up a diagnosis for my joint problems. In the letter that she sent to my mother and GP (I wasn't supposed to see), it stated that I'm at risk of/partially developing Anti-Social Personality Disorder. In her opinion, "to avoid the full-fledged onset of this disorder, Mishi should be forced to interact with her peer group. To facilitate this, organise for her to spend time with the popular kids both inside and outside of school." Yeah, the same ones that were picking on me...

My problems with this:
1 - She's not qualified to make this call. She's a psychologist, not a psychiatrist.
2 - A full-blown diagnosis and 'treatment' plan after a 15 minute discussion, with her doing most of the talking?
3 - I refuse to take seriously the opinion of someone who has sex with a 15 year old boy in her office and later diagnoses him as having severe Bi-Polar.
4 - After looking it up, I found that I don't meet the majority of the criteria.

[NateTheChops]

3 - I refuse to take seriously the opinion of someone who has sex with a 15 year old boy in her office and later diagnoses him as having severe Bi-Polar.

I'm guessing that didn't happen during your session with her.

[Mishi]

Nope, it was one of my close friends.

I'd also have loved to see the face on the receptionist after you told her to call whomever she liked. Priceless! :devil:

[LadyAndreca]

Heh, the one time I -tried- to get help...

I've thought for a very long time I might have chronic depression. I have a lot of classic symptoms of it, plus both depression and bi-polar disorder have appeared in the family before. And there will be days at a time where I have no desire to do -anything-, and generally only get dressed because it's easier than explaining to roommates/my husband why I'm still in my pajamas when they come home. The days immediately following these "lazy" episodes are generally frustrating as I try to catch up on chores and homework that I didn't do.

So I forced myself to get up and drive to my college to get screened. Student services said to talk to the health center, the health center sent me back to student services, but to the department that does career counseling. It took half an hour for someone to be able to see me (I know, how dare I not pre-schedule depression?) I already was feeling grumpy and unsure about this, but...

They must've asked me a dozen times if I was suicidal over the course of that hour. That was the only directed question they asked me, at all. So I talked. I told them why I was there, some of the specific things I'd noticed that triggered the feelings, how often I felt like this, how it came and went in cycles, how I felt like it was never going to stop cycling...I was crying by the time I was done because it was so hard to put all of it into words.

I got told "You just needed someone to talk to" in one of the most condescending voices I ever heard. I guess if I'm not suicidal, nothing's wrong, huh?

I really ought to go see my regular doctor. It's been another year and little has changed. But I can't bring myself to put myself in a situation where I could face that attitude again.

[Sapphire Silk]

At 14, I had the joy of seeing a psychologist while chasing up a diagnosis for my joint problems. In the letter that she sent to my mother and GP (I wasn't supposed to see), it stated that I'm at risk of/partially developing Anti-Social Personality Disorder. In her opinion, "to avoid the full-fledged onset of this disorder, Mishi should be forced to interact with her peer group. To facilitate this, organise for her to spend time with the popular kids both inside and outside of school." Yeah, the same ones that were picking on me...

My problems with this:
1 - She's not qualified to make this call. She's a psychologist, not a psychiatrist.
2 - A full-blown diagnosis and 'treatment' plan after a 15 minute discussion, with her doing most of the talking?
3 - I refuse to take seriously the opinion of someone who has sex with a 15 year old boy in her office and later diagnoses him as having severe Bi-Polar.
4 - After looking it up, I found that I don't meet the majority of the criteria.

That psychologist was a quack. That being said, a psychologist IS qualified to make any diagnosis in the DSM IV-R . . . that's what they do. But you have to do the proper testing, which clearly this lady did not do. She was a lazy slacker who slammed diagnoses on kids to make herself look busy.

Heh, the one time I -tried- to get help...

I've thought for a very long time I might have chronic depression.

So I forced myself to get up and drive to my college to get screened. Student services said to talk to the health center, the health center sent me back to student services, but to the department that does career counseling.

They must've asked me a dozen times if I was suicidal over the course of that hour.

I got told "You just needed someone to talk to" in one of the most condescending voices I ever heard. I guess if I'm not suicidal, nothing's wrong, huh?

I really ought to go see my regular doctor. It's been another year and little has changed. But I can't bring myself to put myself in a situation where I could face that attitude again.

It certainly sounds like you may have a mild to moderate chronic depression. I am very sorry you were treated that way.

Most health care providers who are not mental health professionals really don't have the understanding or patience to work with patients who have mental health problems. It's really unfortunate, but your story is all too common.

It's just symptomatic of the way we view mental illness in this country: as a weakness rather than an illness. :rant:

[Seshat]

Heh, the one time I -tried- to get help...

I totally agree with Panacea - on all points. You deserve help, no less so than someone with, say, a broken leg or diabetes.

Unfortunately, proper treatment of mental problems is still in its infancy. Despite the fact that it's incredibly difficult for you to bring yourself to get help, it's hard to find the right people to help you.

If you have a good relationship with your family doctor, they may know a good psych (-ologist or -iatrist), and be able to refer you.

And Andreca: you don't have to be suicidal to be depressed.

[BlaqueKatt]

Yeah, but just try to tell that to insurance companies! They insist that "this symptom will need x number of visits. No more will be authorized." Mental health does NOT yield itself to actuarial tables very well...

the US Government at least put a stop to that On October 3, 2008, the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act (HR 1424)Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act," which was attached to the economic bill and also became law. This federal mental health law requires health insurance plans that offer mental health coverage to provide the same financial and treatment coverage offered for other physical illnesses. It does not mandate that group plans must provide mental health coverage.

[Skeksin]

I got referred to several psychiatric programs because of "ADHD." Everything from a daycamp for children with Bipolar, anti-social, you name it, where I got bullied unmercifully, and even got chased by a girl with a knife! I had to lock myself in the bathroom to get away from her, and you can guess who got in trouble for "provoking" her. Supposedly, the fact that I wouldn't give her part of my lunch when she threatened was "setting her off on purpose."

One of the boys took a tennis racquet, smashed it against the ground until it was mangled, then said he'd do that to my head. One of the last straws for me was when one guy, in attempt to steal a koosh ball from me at a "summer school," smashed my head into a wall.

Is it just me or does this sound like they aren't actually trying to fix the problems there? It seems to me if refusing to give your lunch away 'provokes' someone then they need some serious help instead of saying 'oh the other kid started it'.

[Dragon_Dreamer]

There were only "group counseling" sessions at the summer school, which I did my best to avoid. The day camp never seemed to have any. The scary part is that the day camp was actually ATTACHED to a mental hospital, and yet I don't remember any counseling going on. The summer school I think actually shut down eventually, at least, they're no longer in that building.

Again, if anyone wants the names for places to avoid, PM me.

[Seshat]

A reason Anna no longer goes to (and we no longer trust) one of the major respite care/carer help/disability help centres in our area:

She was on a respite day. Basically, they look after her for the day, instead of her carer having to. It was also supposed to have counselling & other care, but largely she would end up using their painting or music gear and keeping to herself.

One of the other patients came up behind her when she wasn't looking, and started .. ahem .. rubbing himself on her.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frotteurism) (Semi SFW).

She complained - of course - and was told that she needed to be tolerant of his disability.

We rather disagree. And we're worried about what will happen when (not if) he does it to a rape victim.

[spark]

I seem to have lucked out. I took myself to a counselor for a while when I needed help, and although she wasn't perfect, she was pretty good, she helped me a lot.

I also got sent to have my head shrunk once. By my mother. When I was 25. She pitched a fit at me, basically, and insisted that something MUST be wrong with me and I needed help. Honestly I still see red whenever I think about it.

What was wrong with me? Well, in a culture where there is INCREDIBLE pressure to marry young, (including constant pressure FROM HER) I got engaged to a guy. With a disability. So obviously I'm broken because I would even consider shackling myself to somebody like that! Never mind that every single factor in my life was constantly beating "get married, get married, get married" into my head, and he was the first person who asked me. Nevermind that he was a geek who read all the same books as me and pretty much the ONLY person I'd ever dated at that point that I had anything at all in common with. There must be something seriously wrong with me if I could be attracted to a scrawny man in a wheelchair. I desperately need help, nearly ruining my life like that!

The guy turned out to be a complete psycho, and the engagement was broken off after about a month, mind. It was a silly thing to jump into, but at least I wasn't stupid enough to jump into a fast marriage, I wanted a long engagement to get to know him first, which worked out exactly like it's supposed to, I found out he was a nut, I broke it off, problem solved.

But his disability had NOTHING whatsoever to do with it, and it completely enrages me that I got sent to a shrink because of being able to consider loving a guy who wasn't physically perfect. Thankfully the shrink in question pretty much said "Yeah, you're fine, your mom is probably the one who's nuts. Don't come back again, you don't need help."

[Dilorenzo]

I'm in a similar situation to some here, only I gave up a long time ago on finding a provider who was interested in actually listening to issues rather than simply medicating from the getgo (including one form of medication that actually raised suicidal tendencies, I found out later).

Thankfully, whatever it is that I have is mild enough that I'm not a risk to myself or others, and I've found my own ways to deal with things as I get older, but I can only imagine how horrendous it would be to have something serious be written off because it can't be packed into a nice little box.

Only thing I kinda wish I could get over is my anxiety around crowds of people. Which is gonna make the Flogging Molly concert I'm going to in July fuuuuuuun...

[Misanthropical]

I had a job once that made me completely depressed, but my doctor and I didn't realize that was what was causing it at the time. We both figured it out at the same time. I quit my job and the depression goes away.

Anyway, I make an appointment to get a medical opinion right after the depression went away and the med student comes in and tells me I'm just depressed. :wtf: I could not get this asshole to listen to a word I said, he just kept telling me it was because I was depressed.

I had to wait till my regular doctor came back from vacation to get the medical issue dealt with. I swore right then and there that there was no way in hell I would ever admit to having depression again.

[LadyAndreca]

Yeah, I know I don't have to be suicidal to be depressed, that's one of the reasons I was so annoyed about the whole thing. I know I'm not qualified to self-diagnose or anything, but a brush-off of "you just needed to talk it out" was NOT the right answer.

I've got an appointment with my doctor next week. I should bring it up.

[Seshat]

"talking therapy" can help - but is a vastly different thing from "just talk it out"

[Sapphire Silk]

Having the right therapist definitely makes all the difference.

The best therapists I've ever had were all licensed clinical social workers.

A few years ago I had a guy who had a general degree in counseling from a religious school. We spent as much time talking about him as we did about my problems, and it was more of an hourly gripe session rather than any real therapy. I'd been going to try and deal with minor depression and anxiety issues that were affecting my work performance. It turned into a major depression when my dad died . . . talk wasn't enough.

So I switched to a LCSW who used cognitive behavioral therapy. Then sessions were more about how to solve my problems as opposed to just bitching about them.

I've been out of therapy for a year now, and off medication as well. And I still feel good.

Therapy works . . . IF you have the right therapist.

[Eisa]

We rather disagree. And we're worried about what will happen when (not if) he does it to a rape victim.

:wave:

Startle, scream, freak out, and maybe reflexively deck and/or kick him in the crotch. :o

[Seshat]

Therapy works . . . IF you have the right therapist.

I will very slightly disagree with you, for a change, Panacea.

IF you have brain chemistry or anatomy that is wrong in just the right way, or to just the right severity, you may need medication and/or surgery.

Other than that - and supplemental to the medication/surgery - I completely agree.

:wave:

Startle, scream, freak out, and maybe reflexively deck and/or kick him in the crotch. :o

I was actually thinking of the damage to the victim, and of the duty of care the respite care centre has to them.

Now, if the victim were to reflexively deck and/or kick the person responsible for the decision to keep this guy in with other, unwarned patients.... :devil:

[Eisa]

:roll:

I'm not sure I could manage that and make it look reflexive...but I could try. :devil:

Cuz seriously, that is messed up.

[Seshat]

I TOTALLY agree!

I think it's irresponsible, dangerous, harmful, fails duty of care... plus a whole series of things that are definitely not G or PG rated to say.

If the guy truly can't help himself, he needs a carer with him whenever he is 'in public', including such places as respite care. And by 'with him' I mean 'close enough to prevent him'.

If he can and is using his genuine disabilities as an excuse to get away with the behaviour, then he deserves the reflexive kick too.

[SuperRTL]

Was seeing my doctor after my son was born because I was tired all the time, gaining weight, losing my hair and falling asleep and sleeping for 18 hours a day. She says I have post-partum and prescribes me drugs for it. Um, no, not depressed, dealt with that in high school, thanks.

So, she refers me to a psychologist. I go. Psychologist says, I'm right, it's not post-partum, I'm Bi-Polar! Nope, wrong again, PTSD from being raped in high school. Dealt with it. Not depressed, seriously have a problem here.

3 years and 5 doctors later, one of them looks at my list of symptoms and asks "Did anybody check your thyroid?"

My what?

Oh, it's that little gland that controls basically everything your body does. I had all the classic signs of hypo-thyroidism. Some of them so severe that it was impacting my life badly.

One little blood test later and bam, I'm on synthroid and I can actually function like a human being, though a slightly twisted and maybe a little evil human being. >:D

I've seen shrinks since then and if the first thing they do is offer to put me on an anti-depressant, I'm out of there. I don't need them and taking them without really needing them is scary.

I'm still dealing with the 100 lbs I gained after having the kiddo. Really thinking it should have been caught before it got to this point but, hey, at least I have the option now!

[Sapphire Silk]

I will very slightly disagree with you, for a change, Panacea.

IF you have brain chemistry or anatomy that is wrong in just the right way, or to just the right severity, you may need medication and/or surgery.

Other than that - and supplemental to the medication/surgery - I completely agree.
:

I beg your pardon; I did not make myself clear. I meant therapy for mild depression, which is usually treatable with therapy with or without medication. Major depression, PTSD, and major mental illnesses such as bi polar disorder or schizophrenia almost always require medication (I say almost always because there are some rare cases of patients who manage without medication).

Was seeing my doctor after my son was born because I was tired all the time, gaining weight, losing my hair and falling asleep and sleeping for 18 hours a day. She says I have post-partum and prescribes me drugs for it. Um, no, not depressed, dealt with that in high school, thanks.

So, she refers me to a psychologist. I go. Psychologist says, I'm right, it's not post-partum, I'm Bi-Polar! Nope, wrong again, PTSD from being raped in high school. Dealt with it. Not depressed, seriously have a problem here.

3 years and 5 doctors later, one of them looks at my list of symptoms and asks "Did anybody check your thyroid?"

One little blood test later and bam, I'm on synthroid and I can actually function like a human being, though a slightly twisted and maybe a little evil human being. >:D

I've seen shrinks since then and if the first thing they do is offer to put me on an anti-depressant, I'm out of there. I don't need them and taking them without really needing them is scary.

I'm still dealing with the 100 lbs I gained after having the kiddo. Really thinking it should have been caught before it got to this point but, hey, at least I have the option now!

You're right; the thyroid issue probably should have been caught earlier. All too often psychiatrists are little more than over educated drug dealers.

I could see the Post Partum Depression, though. Post Partum Depression is the result of the pregnancy, probably brought on by hormonal changes. Risk is heightened in patients with previous history of depression or major mental disorders. It is easily treatable, but if left untreated can turn into a psychotic situation (re Andrea Yates).

The hair loss was the big red flag for thyroid issues. I'm glad you got a second opinion and got the right diagnosis.

And after dealing with a shrink of my own who insisted on putting me on atypical anti-pyschotics to "bring me down" off the "energy" I would get from being on Wellbutrin for my depression, I agree with the sentiment: if meds are the first answer, look elsewhere for help.

[SuperRTL]

Yeah, Post-Partum can be rough. I had it, very, very mildly after my daughter was born. I can even see my doctor thinking it could be related but gaining a ton of weight while breastfeeding just after giving birth? And the hair loss? It was the hair loss that freaked me out and I mentioned it several times. I have fantastic hair and it was falling out by the hand full. I swear, I was on the verge of buying Rogaine.

I was completely misdiagnosed multiple times before I got to the right doctor.

one was: It's all in your head! You need to stop complaining and take care of my husband and child and get some exercise you fat tub of lard!
another: OMG! You almost have Type II Diabetes! We have to get you on this stuff right now! And on a new diet to get the weight down!

The diet the doctor put me on had me eating approx. 1000 calories a day, plus the pills for being pre-diabetic (can't for the life remember what they're called) had me shaking when I was awake but I didn't have the energy to get out of bed for 3 months.
That's the point where I went to a "whole person wellness center" that was actually covered by my insurance. It had "regular" doctors (MD's) who worked with aroma therapists, chiropractors, acupuncturists and several nutritionists. When I walked in for my first appointment, the doctor was fixing some piece of equipment, wearing jeans and had her laptop opened to my file, which she had me look at to make sure that none of the other doctors had left anything out. I was completely impressed. She was the first doctor to actually listen to me, ask questions and tried to understand me and my life.

All of which was put into my file and everybody else I talked to at the place had the same attitude. They were going to get me better, not put me on the drug du jour, and sometimes the things they were going to tell me weren't going to make me happy, but they would also explain everything, in lots of detail, so I could understand what was going on.

[Seshat]

I beg your pardon; I did not make myself clear. I meant therapy for mild depression, which is usually treatable with therapy with or without medication.

Perfectly alright - and I agree.

And after dealing with a shrink of my own who insisted on putting me on atypical anti-pyschotics to "bring me down" off the "energy" I would get from being on Wellbutrin for my depression, I agree with the sentiment: if meds are the first answer, look elsewhere for help.

Uh.... right. Funny, a friend of mine who's on wellbutrin for depression hasn't noticed any psychotic-style 'energy'....

And once again: ditto. You want the appropriate answer, not a pill. Cleaning and stitches for an open wound, thyroid meds if a thyroid test shows them as needed, and a good therapist (and sunshine, exercise, good diet) for mild depression.

one was: It's all in your head! You need to stop complaining and take care of my husband and child and get some exercise you fat tub of lard!
another: OMG! You almost have Type II Diabetes! We have to get you on this stuff right now! And on a new diet to get the weight down!

Even in the rare case when it IS 'all in your head', the patient needs assistance and counselling! Just saying 'do it' isn't any help - there's SOME reason they're not doing it. Maybe they don't know how. Maybe there's life circumstances preventing them. Maybe they need help developing new stress-management techniques (I used to be all 'comfort-food'. I'm slowly becoming a 'comfort-artist' instead.)

Pre-diabetes aka Insulin resistance is often treated with metformin. Is that the drug you were thinking of? It's sometimes sold as Diabex.

[SuperRTL]

Pre-diabetes aka Insulin resistance is often treated with metformin. Is that the drug you were thinking of? It's sometimes sold as Diabex.

Yep, that's the one. No idea if it was the meds or the diet but I was shaky as shit for 3 months and cried at the drop of a hat.

And I knew what to do! I had a personal trainer 3 days a week and I was at the gym every day. I ate healthy! I got regular sun! So frustrating to just keep gaining the weight that, by the time I finally did see the last doctor, I was getting depressed. Yeah, I had stress in my life but this was getting ridiculous.

[Seshat]

Indeed. If you're doing the stuff that normally fixes X, and you're not getting better... maybe you don't have X!

Isn't that common sense? No?

[Sapphire Silk]

Uh.... right. Funny, a friend of mine who's on wellbutrin for depression hasn't noticed any psychotic-style 'energy'....

I was being treated for anxiety as well as depression, and my shrink swore the wellbutrin would increase the anxiety and make me restless, so she needed to "slow" me down with the atypical anti-pyschotic. I was a lot more trusting then . . . I went with it.

I can't begin to describe what those drugs were doing to me. I quit taking them quickly, and switched to a new shrink shortly thereafter. I am now very skeptical of the psychiatric "profession." I am beginning to view most of them as little more than credentialed snake oil salesmen.

Indeed. If you're doing the stuff that normally fixes X, and you're not getting better... maybe you don't have X!

Isn't that common sense? No?

You'd think . . .

[Primer]

I forced myself to get up and drive to my college to get screened. Student services said to talk to the health center, the health center sent me back to student services, but to the department that does career counseling. It took half an hour for someone to be able to see me (I know, how dare I not pre-schedule depression?) I already was feeling grumpy and unsure about this, but...

They must've asked me a dozen times if I was suicidal over the course of that hour. That was the only directed question they asked me, at all. So I talked. I told them why I was there, some of the specific things I'd noticed that triggered the feelings, how often I felt like this, how it came and went in cycles, how I felt like it was never going to stop cycling...I was crying by the time I was done because it was so hard to put all of it into words.

I got told "You just needed someone to talk to" in one of the most condescending voices I ever heard. I guess if I'm not suicidal, nothing's wrong, huh?

I learned the hard way, early on, that the ONLY way to get help from anybody but a private practitioner is to CLAIM to be suicidal, even if you're not. That WILL get you into the system where you can then get the help you need. Just do NOT let them know that you are not suicidal until after you get the help you feel you need. I hate that the system works this way, but that's the way it is.

[LadyAndreca]

Honestly...I wanted help, but I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of it than it was, if that makes sense. I wanted the -right- help, not a knee-jerk "get this girl under 24-hour suicide watch" or something.

Admittedly, at my worst, about five years ago, I WAS suicidal. I very clearly remember a night I locked myself in my room because I didn't trust what I would do if I left it. But I held on because I knew that toxic situation was only lasting a year - plus my boyfriend proposed to me, so I had that to hold onto. (The whole situation -literally- went up in flames; that apartment caught fire the day I was to move out! :D No need to salt and burn the earth behind me!) I don't get that bad anymore. Now at my worst, I'm really upset and restless and will wander the apartment, but can't settle down to DO anything.

Or...I dunno. That's how I remember it. But maybe it was part of my "it's too much effort to do anything" that I get when I'm in the down part of the cycle. Maybe I got as far as trying to get help, but actually creating a fuss was too much to bear. I don't know.

The more this thread goes on, and the more I can get this into words, the more I'm thinking I really should say something when I see my doctor tomorrow.

[Sapphire Silk]

I learned the hard way, early on, that the ONLY way to get help from anybody but a private practitioner is to CLAIM to be suicidal, even if you're not. That WILL get you into the system where you can then get the help you need. Just do NOT let them know that you are not suicidal until after you get the help you feel you need. I hate that the system works this way, but that's the way it is.

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with this. It can open a very unpleasant can of worms, which can include a 72 hour involuntary hold in a mental hospital. Not something you want to put yourself through unless you really need it.

The more this thread goes on, and the more I can get this into words, the more I'm thinking I really should say something when I see my doctor tomorrow.

Please do. Please do. :) :hug:

[laborcat]

That's the point where I went to a "whole person wellness center" that was actually covered by my insurance. It had "regular" doctors (MD's) who worked with aroma therapists, chiropractors, acupuncturists and several nutritionists. When I walked in for my first appointment, the doctor was fixing some piece of equipment, wearing jeans and had her laptop opened to my file, which she had me look at to make sure that none of the other doctors had left anything out. I was completely impressed. She was the first doctor to actually listen to me, ask questions and tried to understand me and my life.

All of which was put into my file and everybody else I talked to at the place had the same attitude. They were going to get me better, not put me on the drug du jour, and sometimes the things they were going to tell me weren't going to make me happy, but they would also explain everything, in lots of detail, so I could understand what was going on.

I want a place like this. If there is one around here, I've not heard of it, but I haven't looked either. You may very well have shown me a new spark of hope in medicine.

[Dragon_Dreamer]

The one time I was ever put on an anti-depressant was Zoloft when I spent a year on my own.

The only way I can describe the roller coaster was up down up down UP DOWN UP CRASH BOOOOOOM... ending in me making an attempt at suicide. >.<

The doc's only response when I got out of the hospital? "Maybe we should adjust your dose." I walked out on that office and never went back.

DD and psychiatric meds don't mix. :P

PS: One of the other meds I've mentioned is the reason I now get sun poisoning, apparently. >.<

[SuperRTL]

I want a place like this. If there is one around here, I've not heard of it, but I haven't looked either. You may very well have shown me a new spark of hope in medicine.

I can't even tell you how much I love my doctor. I lost my insurance recently and they've worked with me to keep my costs down (huuuuuge discount if I pay in full that day). If my next insurance doesn't cover them (which would surprise me, they had a huge list of most of the major companies they work with) I will be sad and still pay out of pocket to see them.

[MnR]

The doc's only response when I got out of the hospital? "Maybe we should adjust your dose." I walked out on that office and never went back.



This so much! I went through two docs at the mental health center while dealing with my depression, bi-polar disorder and anxiety disorder. The second doctor put me on a cocktail of Seraquel, Geodon and Lexapro and I slept for almost 3 days, waking up only to take my pills before I'd pass out again. I made an emergency visit with the doc and he said "Ooh, that's too bad, let's double the dose of your Seraquel." I walked out of his office and got a meeting with my therapist and said "New Doctor... now."

[Seshat]

Unfortunately, the transition with a new psychoactive drug can take weeks or months; and there can be nasty transition-only side effects.

When I first went onto Cymbalta, I couldn't sleep. At all. I began suffering sleep-deprivation effects. My doctor put me on a benzodiazepam for the rest of the likely transition period, just so I could sleep.

Now that it's over, the only way you'll get my Cymbalta away from me is to pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or find me some other psychoactive that works just as well or better on my symptom set.)

HOWEVER: a doctor shouldn't just be saying 'oh that's a shame, take this'. They should be pre-warning you about the transition phase with psychoactive drugs, they should be explaining, providing supportive medication if necessary, etc etc.

My best friend is severely mentally ill, and if she needs to make a major transition, the best way to do it is to hospitalise her and keep her sedated. Otherwise she could go nastily manic, depressive or psychotic: none of which are at all healthy!
She's a severe case, but I mention her to emphasise the point. Transitions on or off of psychoactive medications can be really nasty experiences.

They can also go perfectly smoothly, and you gradually improve without really noticing until one day you realise you haven't had (symptom) in weeks.

[Dragon_Dreamer]

Considering that in the last 10 years since swearing off shrinks, AND getting the Asperger's diagnosis that I have made FAR more progress than in my ENTIRE LIFE up to that point (again, had been seeing shrinks since age 7)... and have not been on ANY meds since (except for the occasional migrane meds and stuff for my bronchitis flareups)...

I'd say I may have never needed any of it. :P Some people do, I do better with good friends by my side. :P

And I agree, Seshat. I *should* have been warned of the possible side effects, but was told only to "see if it helped".

[LadyAndreca]

This is one reason I looooove my doctor. He talks to me about EVERY medication I'm taking, and writes down everything I say about my reactions to them, and actually discusses what my alternatives are if what we try doesn't work before I start anything new. The way he put it is, "I don't have a miracle pill that's going to cure you. What we're trying for is to get to a level where YOU are happy with your quality of life."

[Seshat]

"I don't have a miracle pill that's going to cure you. What we're trying for is to get to a level where YOU are happy with your quality of life."

They haven't put it in exactly those terms, but that's what my medical team is trying to do as well.

I still have depression episodes every day, and suicidal ideation at least once a week, but my QoL is vastly improved.

[Little Retail Rabbit]

I recently saw a new doctor to see if I could be referred for therapy for anxiety and depression as the last one didn't take it seriously at all and just fobbed off my fears. The new doctor rocks! He's having me referred to a talking therapy which he really thinks will help...he did ask what I thought about medication (I'm not keen) and he's paid attention to me and said we'll see how the therapy works before trying any medication. It's so nice to be taken seriously for a change! :)