Was I the SC??

[Bugg]

Dammit, I just wanted to get gas! I went to the local station which is full serve, but I've gone there a few times and pumped my own gas, never was a problem. Most stations around here prefer that motorcycles pump themselves. So, I go put my card in..blah blah..finish up, I took my time so I was there for awhile, then the attendant finally comes up as I'm getting on my bike, asks me what I want, I say, I'm done--finish getting on my bike, he asks me again, to which I again say, I'm done, I already paid..I turn my key and he starts getting agitated asks me again, and I say, I'm done--you took too long.. I start it up and he starts yelling..YOU STEAL GAS!! $1.60--$1.60!! I yell back-- I PAID ALREADY!!! (I put in a debit card, I actually paid for $2.00, it was a preset pump) at this point I just wanted to leave so I gun it and pull away-- THE PRICK GRABS MY RIGHT GRIP!!!!:eek: ( the throttle!,glad I don't have a literbike, would have been an awesome wheelstand tho!) Now, I'm pissed but I'm having none of this-so I'm out..as I pass him he hits me in the shoulder--that's enough-- I shut it down and I hop off--I'm way past pissed I pull out my receipt, shove it in his face and yell LOOK YOU F*****G C********R, I PAID, SEE??? GRAB MY BIKE AGAIN AND I'LL SMASH YOUR F*****G SKULL, YOU C***T!! Then some of the other guys came out and surrounded me, as camly as I could I tried to explain to them that I paid which he said he didn't care and to leave..I'm trying to but he's standing in my way he tells me to leave again and I tell him Move, stupid, do you want me to run you over?? He says to never come back--no problem

After it was over I filed a compaint with the local precinct to cover myself, because the one guy said he was calling the police, normally if it were just him I would have said fine, I'll wait--but there were 3 of them..and while I may be able to handle myself pretty well, 3 on 1 just isn't good....besides I REALLY didn't want to have to hit anyone (i'm getting older--I might hurt my wrists--then no more riding!)

I just couldn't believe how quickly it escalated, and that in the guys mind knocking me off my bike was worth $1.60, even if I had stolen it. Funny that I got a receipt, I usually don't.

Just venting tho...my heavy bag isn't set up and I like my walls without holes!:rant:

[mrtauntaun]

Well, not an SC in the traditional sense. He was mistaken, and hitting you was flat out wrong, but I do think you overreacted. Myself, I would have shown him the receipt without the colorful speech. If her persisted at that point, I would have called the cops myself.

[Bugg]

looking back I suppose I overreacted, but trying to do something that could injure(or even kill)me got me upset. While I CAN see his side of it, being upset at a 'theif', he should probably know how his own pumps work.

I've been in this sort of situation, as I work 'security' at my job and I actually do care if people are stealing, however I would never try to hurt someone who wasn't trying to hurt me physically, in fact all my life I've NEVER hit first.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Look at it this way....you simply encountered a sucky customer where he worked. :lol:

I think if the guy had grabbed me or my bike or something, I would have gotten livid, too. I generally do not like being touched by strangers.

[Think Blue]

The fact that you could have gotten really hurt when that idiot grabbed your bike, hitting you and standing in your way, justifies what you did. It wasn't that sucky when people are intentionally trying to injure you.

[Bugg]

The thing is I've known of people who have gotten killed going parking lot speed on bikes, I'm very saftey conscious (full gear all the time, trackdays to improve skill, taught to ride by professionals) so doing that to me was like lighting off a bomb in my head. It's like I'm one of those tough guy HD riders who get upset if you look at their bike, actually quite the opposite, I always try to be responsible and safe, on and off the track...even funnier was that I blocked a lane on the way into the station with my bike so a lady could cross the street with her stroller!:lol: :angel: so yeah I'm no badass.

[Kiwi]

the whole situation was unfortunate :( he should have not accused you of stealing before he understood the full situation, nor should he have touched you or grabbed your bike

the swearing and yelling though, that never really solves anything, its going to put him on the defensive (even more so than he already was)

if that ever happens again, pull the reicept out and try to explain what happened as calmy as possible. You had paid and so you know your in the right in that aspect.

as frustrating as it is, exploding in anger will always make the situation worse

note: this is why you should ALWAYS get your reciept people, even if you dont think its worth it. it is. they give you one for a reason.

[Moirae]

I'd say you were justified personally.

[kibbles]

You were absolutely 100% justified and in no way a SC, those employees were not only Sucky, but they sounded psycho as well. I think you did the right thing as well by filing a complaint. :) Hope it works out and the place is looked into.

And don't worry thinking you overreacted because because you didn't, you were on your bike when someone grabbed your bike and then hit you. I think you reacted more calmly then most people would be able to.

[ReadyToRetire]

I dunno, I may be in the minority but...

In your post you said he asked you twice before accosting you.
He shouldn't have done that, but if you had just shown him the receipt when he first asked, all the rest would never have happened.

[Bugg]

In all actuality, it escalated so fast (really fast) that I forgot I had it, as I usually don't keep receipts from gas pumps. As soon as I realized I had it, I stopped to show it to him (not in a very nice way, but given how he had just tried to dump me off my bike twice, I was a little upset)

[beercashier]

It sound to me there was overreaction on both parts. Him grabbing your bike could have gotten both of you hurt.
I would think with the price of gas there is a lot of concern about drive offs.

[Bugg]

I totally agree that I was not 100% innocent, but yeah having someone grab you throttle when your riding and revving the bike up tends to upset people.

[Kiwi]

sorry for my ignorance

what is a throttle?

[One-Fang]

Throttle - make gas go. Like the accelerator on a car.

I don't really know about this situation. He should absolutely have never physically grabbed out for you. But your resultant behaviour was way over the top. Can I just say then that both parties acted somewhat suckily and not have to apportion any specific blame? ;)

[Becks]

I'd say both parties are to blame. Not that you were unjustified, just that you didn't handle it well.

[kibbles]

I still say one party is to blame especially when someone does something that could put you in physical danger.

[AmericanZero8503]

looking back I suppose I overreacted, but trying to do something that could injure(or even kill)me got me upset. While I CAN see his side of it, being upset at a 'theif', he should probably know how his own pumps work.

I've been in this sort of situation, as I work 'security' at my job and I actually do care if people are stealing, however I would never try to hurt someone who wasn't trying to hurt me physically, in fact all my life I've NEVER hit first.


Not to be racist or anything, but what nationality were the workers at this gas station. Recently a chain of gas stations in my town were bought by foriegners. They're so pushy and mean, that I can not get gas there any more. I paid by debit card at the pump and this attendant still called the cops on me. Luckily I have a friend who is 5-0 and he called me, and I met up with him and showed him my reciept. I think they were trying to get MORE money from me. I'll never get gas there again!

[Lehk]

that d***wad put your life in danger. you were justified of anything short of (but not including) firebombing the gas station.

and only not including because that would put innocent people in danger and create a ton of pollution.

i would not hold it against you at all if you went back and dumped a bag of quick-set cement in the toilet.


being rude is one thing, assult and endangering someone's life is very different i say give 'em hell.

[blas]

AmericanZero does have a good question.......it does make me wonder as well.

And this isn't being prejudice or racist or saying that foreigners are greedy.

It could be something as simple as they don't understand that some customers pay at the pump, and they think they stole. And a lot of foreign people really don't understand that in America, we really can't attack people like that. (Remember my post about my Mexican manager at the restaurant who'd throw things at employees to get their attention?)

Again, not being racist or prejudiced, it's just sometimes people who come from a country where you can chop off shoplifter's hands or you can attack shoplifters........they may have a hard time understanding that in America, you really can't do that, no matter how justifiable it seems.

But still, grabbing you was wrong, and I'd never shop there again if I were you.

[Ljt09863]

ok, the second he put you in danger(when he grabbed the throttle), i think he went overboard and made him a sucky employee. if you had reacted that way without the employee touching you or your bike, then yeah, you would have been a sc. but the employee screwed up.

[Sandy]

Man, your petrol (I guess you guys call it gas) costed you $2? To fill up my car's tank, it costs me $70-$80! Petrol here is like $1.39 per litre ... Trust me, your petrol is so much cheaper in America than it is here in Australia

[repsac]

call me the SC here, but personally, I'd have found out the number to his DM and gave then a rather nice phone call.

[AFpheonix]

Sandy, he was topping off a motorcycle. It costs me these days about $35 to $40 for 12+ gallons.

He shouldn't have grabbed at you, but you could have slowed everything down a bit by turning off the bike, or at least kicking it into neutral, then calmly asking him what he wanted, and then pointing out the display on the pump or your receipt.

And the arguement about the employee not understanding pre-pay, methinks that would be as insulting as telling me that I don't know how to bill insurance. It's part of my job, I get it, and I think that guy did too. He probably has had a few drive offs lately and is a wee bit oversensitive.

[Barefootgirl]

You were both out of order. You were out of order for not simply showing your receipt when he asked you, and for using foul language. He was out of order for grabbing your bike.

When sucky customers and sucky employees collide...

[Mixed Bag]

Bugg, you were absolutely wrong about one thing: saying you were not 100% innocent.

People are too readily blamed for reacting to outrage with anything short of the consummate insouciance of a James Bond appointed Foreign Minister. What happened to accountability for those who start problems? If I were a paranoid sort I'd think demanding courtesy in the face of outrage was a form of discrimination against those less blessed with that gift. When I swore as a restaurant customer in shock at describing gross incompetence by an employee, the manager was more interested in REPEATEDLY asking me if I understood that kind of language was inappropriate than he was in correcting the idiocy that led me off guard, like I was his four-year-old (I know my behaviour wasn't A+ and the provocation was far short of danger, but really, if he condescends to customers that way, I couldn't wait to tell the OWNER what effect he must have on employees). I also couldn't resist asking the other manager, who knew me a bit, next time I went in, her rank relative to his so I could vent (cleanly this time). :angel:

[Bugg]

see, the thing is, I am normally pretty calm, in situatons like this I normally enjoy being right and making the accusing party feel stupid, but it's hard to explain how fast this got out of hand, so I freaked out---Imagine someone somehow slamming on the gas while you're in your car as its pointed at a wall

and honestly, who lets someone hang out by a pump for 5 min before they go over there?

[Boulder_Bear]

This guy started the incident by not doing his job. First of all most gas stations have displays that show how much gas has been pumped and if it has been payed for or not. If this guy had done his job then the entire incident would not have happened. Then he went and made it worse by assaulting you, and attempting to detain you in a very illegal and dangerous fashion. Your reaction was not out of order. If I or anyone in my family is threatened or put directly in the path of danger by someone I will and have blown up. It is your right and duty to protect yourself and your belongings. The attendant also should not have reacted like that because you did tell him that you already paid, several times. This just goes back to the begining that by him doing his job he could have avoided the whole situation. You are in the right here. I would have reacted similarly or maybe after he gunned my bike I would have just gotten off and hit him. About him being a foreigner, I will point out that in Mexico there is only 1 gas company, and all of their gas stations are full service.

[BunnyJas]

I believe you should have shown the guy the reciept as soon as he started harrassing you- then things might not have gotten so out of hand. However, the employee was sucky on many levels:

-he obviously wasn't watching the pumps in the first place which is why he showed up late and made accusations
-before accusing a customer of stealing, he should have asked for the reciept or looked at the meter on the pump
-grabbing you and hitting you is definately wrong and after he did that I think you had every right to curse him out and even call the cops

I also wonder if these people were foriegn- from your description, it doesn't sound like the guy knew english very well and they do tend to go ballistic if they think someone is stealing from them.

[JustAGirl]

Its both employee and customer suck time.

Though the employee should have come out there promptly (was the bike hidden by the pumps? that might explain the big delay), bugg still overreacted by cussing like that.

You should have shown them the receipt, or talked to him more calmly when he came out. What would you have done if you told someone they didn't pay, they said they did, and just left without showing a receipt?

And, frankly, I don't think the guy thought he knew what he was doing safewise to your handle. I'm not a motorcycle person and only recently found out where the throttle was on a bike. I think, if he KNEW the throttle was on there, he might have grabbed you in a different way.

So, ok, his fault for coming out late, your fault for not showing the receipt right when he said you didn't pay, his fault for grabbing your throttle hand, your fault for cussing him out that harshly.

I feel its 50/50 for fault here.

[protege]

I too think the situation got a bit out of hand. The employee did start it though. However, Bugg, you should have shown the receipt instead of escalating things further. If you had, I don't think it would have gotten as bad.

On the other hand, if I was in my car, and someone was to reach in like that...I'd treat it as a threat, and I'd respond as such.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I'd say Bugg was well within his rights. True, he shouldn't have sworn at the guy but grabbing the throttle... that is dangerous as hell. Speaking as a rider myself, anyone does that to my bike can expect pain. I'm very safety consience as is obvious by the fact that despite the heat I ride out in full leathers, and to me this worker was the sucky one.

[Mixed Bag]

Business owners should train themselves and their employees, foreign or not, in basics critical to the society as it intersects with the line of work. If a customer says he paid and the employee or owner wants to indicate they need proof rather than mere reassurance the customer understands the situation, that's their cue to ask for a receipt before escalating the situation with someone whom they themselves are aware may be dishonest or dangerous if they're really trying to steal.

Not knowing to produce a receipt instantaneously under stress hardly makes for an SC considering the typical clueless behaviours regularly reported here. I also don't think it's too much for workers to be taught a handful of key facts about handling or avoiding the powerful machines they might reasonably be expected to occasionally encounter on business property.

[Bugg]

I didn't start yelling at him until he grabbed at me, and had I even remebered that I had the receipt, it would have been out immedeatly, but I just got kinda spooked as theis guy was yelling at me that I stole..even tho you have to put a card in to make tha pump turn on

[purplecat41877]

I agree that you were both out of line. There are better ways to handle a situation like that.;)

[rdp78]

I mean Bugg you should have shown the receipt once he was accusing you of stealing and he should have checked to see if you have paid before accusing you. He also shouldn't have grabbed your bike and you shouldn't have use so much foul language. I don't know it sounds like he wasn't train right.

[Dragon_Dreamer]

I'm just glad you're okay.

[KuzcoLlama]

I would just like to add something.

When you are posting, if you have to add, "I'm not being racist/sexist/etc, but..." It's probably not a good idea to post it.

[JuniorMintz]

LOL Kuzco, you're right. That should probably be rule #3 or something.

Nothing will top rule #1! Muahahaha!

[NightAngel]

I would just like to add something.

When you are posting, if you have to add, "I'm not being racist/sexist/etc, but..." It's probably not a good idea to post it.

Seconded.

:no:

[JustADude]

When you are posting, if you have to add, "I'm not being racist/sexist/etc, but..." It's probably not a good idea to post it.

Sorry, but I think some comments that require that remark in today's culture are actually valid points. Members of any given group, of whatever kind, tend to act in certain ways. Many, but by no means all, stereotypes are based on actual facts. To me, it's only bigotry if you start believing every member of that group acts the same way. Okay, maybe with the exception of the KKK hating black people. The 'I'm not being...' disclaimer, to me, shows the author is expressing a legitimate observation that may be misread as something... less intelligent. All the Political Correctness bull we've had shoved down our throats has people conditioned to think ANY statement about a group will be somehow turned into an issue. If people would just get over themselves and stop hating on each other, we wouldn't have to look over our shoulders every time we say japanese people like sushi, or explicitly state the provisions any thinking person would insert automatically.



Back on topic:
I can probably imagine how fast things got out of hand once he came running out, accusing you of something you couldn't possibly have done (steal gas from an automated pump). That's poor training and a poor attitude. You might've handled the innitial confrontation a little better, but if he had been thinking this never would've started. Once he ignorantly (going with the theme here) endangered you and then struck you, you were pretty much justified in my eyes in getting foul and up on him. No physical retaliation though... that's a good thing.

Hope it turns out well for you.

[Mixed Bag]

JustADude, we also agree on this :salute:

[KuzcoLlama]

It is not about whether or not people should handle a post regarding race in the manner that it is not always a flammatory remark and just a point, JustADude, it is about the fact that race posts never end well. It starts with debate, turns to flaming, and ends up with closed threads doling out punishment due to the severity of the comments.

(To All) CustomersSuck! is not a debate forum. The point is, think before you post. More often than not, if you think you have to put a disclaimer, then you know people might take it the wrong way, and should not be posted.

[Ree]

I am wondering why race even became an issue in this thread at all.

The OP never once mentioned race.

From what I can see, it was the, "Look, I'm not a racist, but by any chance was the dude a foreigner" crowd who brought up the race factor in the first place.
As Kuzco said, if you have to put in a disclaimer, then the comment should probably remain unwritten.

The guy had no right to grab your bike or touch you, but as it's been said repeatedly by others before me, all you had to was show the receipt in the first place. You say you forgot about it in the sudden escalation of the moment, but you did remember it after the whole thing got so badly out of hand. (In my opinion it was your own failure to respond properly that escalated things.)
If I had just finished putting a receipt in my pocket and someone immediately accused me of stealing, I think the first thing I would do would be to shove the receipt in their face. I have a pretty bad memory, and if I didn't remember something that had just happened only seconds before, I don't think it would suddenly come to my mind once I was upset.
That's just me, though.

Aside from the fact that the guy was obviously not thinking in order to realize you couldn't get gas without putting in payment, he was within his rights to question it, and your defensive attitude didn't do anything to help it along.

I would be ticked if the same thing happened to me, but as I said, I think I would have produced a receipt as soon as the guy started being a dickhead.

[Rapscallion]

One thing you could consider is that if you have the attitude that someone is going to steal or be antisocial, it's quite likely that they'll pick up on that. Why should they think anything other than "If it's expected, why don't I help myself?" or "Why shouldn't I get away with acting like that?"

As far as I'm concerned, race, politics, gender, religion etc only have a place in tales here if they are a pivotal part of the story. Sure, if the "Maria's cousins" comes up from a manager, that's fine to report. If you're talking about a group of thieving youths and mention that one or more of them were black, that's irrelevant and perpetuating a problem.

Takes two to tango and all that.

Rapscallion

[ebonyknight]

looking back I suppose I overreacted, but trying to do something that could injure(or even kill)me got me upset. While I CAN see his side of it, being upset at a 'theif', he should probably know how his own pumps work.

I've been in this sort of situation, as I work 'security' at my job and I actually do care if people are stealing, however I would never try to hurt someone who wasn't trying to hurt me physically, in fact all my life I've NEVER hit first.

No, but you missed the point. If you told him you paid several times and he wasn't getting it, THEN you should have showed him the reciept. He shouldn't have tried to stop you, but it shouldn't have gotten to that point either. Think about it from his side...if he actually think you stole the gas, why would he believe you just saying you already paid. I am sure a lot of shoplifters say that too.

You both suck! ;)

[LostMyMind]

Actually, because that shopkeeper actually grabbed him. He was in major wrong. If you prevent someone, who had done nothing wrong, from leaving, you could be thrown in jail. That's why you always have to be damn sure they have committed a crime before attempting to "arrest" someone.

Yes, he could (and should have) shown the receipt. But he shouldn't have to, all the shop-keep had to do was write down the license plate number and gas runners will be in trouble.

What you don't understand ebonyknight is this, you can not grab someone's keys out of their cars to prevent them from leaving unless they're committing a crime. The shop-keep was majorly in the wrong by not being sure that a crime was committed. If someone grab me while I'm on my bike, I wouldn't be as nice as Bugg was. Bikes are not toys, you do not "grab" someone else's bike. Its the same as letting air out of the tires on a car to "prevent' them from leaving. You can't do that.

[ebonyknight]

What you don't understand ebonyknight is this, you can not grab someone's keys out of their cars to prevent them from leaving unless they're committing a crime. The shop-keep was majorly in the wrong by not being sure that a crime was committed. If someone grab me while I'm on my bike, I wouldn't be as nice as Bugg was. Bikes are not toys, you do not "grab" someone else's bike. Its the same as letting air out of the tires on a car to "prevent' them from leaving. You can't do that.

What you don't understand is English apparently. I clearly said that he shouldn't have done that.

But it shouldn't have even gotten to that point. If someone accused me of stealing something that I paid for, my FIRST instinct wouldn't be to play he said, she said...it would be to PROVE I paid for it. That's why reciepts are given.

But that's just me.

[Rapscallion]

*sigh*

We don't fight each other on here - we fight SCs.

Calm it down, folks.

Rapscallion

[LostMyMind]

But it shouldn't have even gotten to that point. If someone accused me of stealing something that I paid for, my FIRST instinct wouldn't be to play he said, she said...it would be to PROVE I paid for it. That's why reciepts are given
Right, sure. I believe you :rolleyes: 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. Makes for alot of B.S. Maybe you should re-read the first post, you'll see that the "gas man" grab and hit first before Bugg could really react.

After being told, the "gas man" should have looked at the pump and saw that it was ready for the next "pump". He didn't and was in the wrong. Bugg did the perfectly natural reaction when challenged.

[Mixed Bag]

All well-meaning posts, everyone, but I'm surprised there isn't more agreement that the manager should have thought to ask for the receipt instead of Bugg having to show it--after all, while both were upset, I expect managers and employees to be more aware of practical steps and appropriate policies.

Occasionally I've placed an order in a restaurant for an item, not realizing my order could have been misunderstood as perhaps being for something else I didn't notice on the menu--and I'm amazed that I wasn't asked to clarify, and that the server or manager isn't quicker to agree I shouldn't have to pay the full price of the higher-priced item I got but didn't ask for. Even worse is if I think the lower-priced item is what I got and I come to think it's that good, only to find I can't get it for the money in the future (more likely to happen when they're trying to be nice because they're out of something or like when I get two waffle cones to hold my ice cream because the inner one cracked).

[ladodger34]

I've read the OP a few times and while I'm sure that Bugg could have handled it better, the attendant screwed up.

As many others have pointed out,the attendant could have asked for a receipt, checked the pump itself, or checked the system. I'm not, nor never have been a gas station attendant but as a customer, everytime that I've needed to get a receipt, I've been able to go inside to get one even if I've paid at the pump.

The attendant escalated the situation by accusing Bugg of stealing the gas. Like I said, he had several methods available to check whether he had paid or not. Just as we are telling Bugg to be more rational, the rational thing to do would be to tell the customer "Hey, I'm pretty sure that you paid but can I double check?" by using one of the methods above. That probably would have stopped the situation right then and there.

On the other hand, and I can totally understand why Bugg was mad, starting to drive off may have given him "proof" that you stole the gas. Then again, I know when someone accuses you of something that you know you didn't do it kind of pushes your buttons sometimes. In this instance, I can see both sides of the situation. Neither side was really right or wrong, but it still goes back to the first point I made. If the attendant would have been calmer on his end, this part of the story wouldn't have happened.

Now as for the grabbing the bike and shoving Bugg, the gloves are off at that point in time. I'm not a physically violent person and I usually remain very calm. If someone did what the attendant did to Bugg, I don't know what I would have done. I know I would be more than a tad bit angry. And while I know that cussing doesn't solve anything, I couldn't say that I wouldn't have done it.

And on another note, can you imagine the hot water the attendant would have gotten the station into if Bugg was hurt when he did that? He had absolutely no proof other than Bugg driving off (and that isn't proof, it was just his rationalization) that he stole the gas. If I was the owner of the station, I would be pissed. A potential lawsuit over a couple of bucks? No thank you.

Long poster made even longer, it's really hard to rationalize how this was even slightly Bugg's fault. The only thing I fault him with is driving off, but even then, he didn't steal the freaking gas. All this lies at the feet of the attendant. He escalated the situation from the get go when he didn't need to.