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Food Lady
09-02-2014, 04:20 AM
AGAIN. :mad: So, they're this family from another country where apparently you stay up half the night drinking beer after the holiday is over and go to work on 5 hours of sleep. You know, I don't care about that. The adults are outside talking, but I have a big fan on and could sleep despite that. I have the window open because I just don't want to run the AC when it's going to be in the 50s tonight, you know? Now, I've had maybe 11 hours sleep between the last 2 nights. I have to work yet another 8.5-hour day tomorrow, and the next, and the next. In fact, I'm working 13 more hours this week than normal, and will go a 7-day stretch. What I do NOT need is the little kid a couple of doors down screaming bloody murder OUTSIDE at 11:16 pm!!! I came home around 8:30 and they had the BBQ out and I just *KNEW* this was going to happen because it happens every. single. holiday. weekend. It's ALWAYS this family, and what's worse is that I've seen the on-site management couple hanging with them in front of the BBQ numerous times. And I'm pretty sure one of the people does some kind of work in exchange for a rent discount. Complaining will do nothing. Calling the cops will, but I am so sick of doing that every single holiday weekend. It's after 11:00 pm on Labor Day; THE HOLIDAY IS OVER! Did I mention the kids have the first day of school in the morning??

sms001
09-02-2014, 09:44 AM
So did you? I certainly would have. Once or twice I'd suck it up, but if it's routine, no way. What do they say when you ask them to quiet down or move away from your window?

Food Lady
09-02-2014, 12:44 PM
I don't ask them because they don't speak English very well. I was way too angry to speak; I would've been yelling because that kid was screaming so loud at 1:00 am that all the neighbors could hear. He wasn't anywhere near my window. I think next time I should.

Jester
09-02-2014, 01:01 PM
Yes, this situation sucks, but I'm wondering what part of it is illegal? All the cops would do if called is maybe, just maybe, ask the family to quiet down, which is probably something you should do first. You say they don't speak English very well, but you also said the couple who manages the place was also with them. So perhaps you should talk to them about the problem you're having with your neighbors, and maybe they could relay the message to the family.

To me, it just seems like the least you could do before you involve the police and pull them away from something else that might be a bit more of an emergency.

Just my opinion....hope it doesn't come off as snarky or rude. Just trying to be constructive here, and help you solve the problem the easiest way possible, and not unnecessarily ruffle any feathers.

Sapphire Silk
09-02-2014, 03:10 PM
Yes, this situation sucks, but I'm wondering what part of it is illegal?

It is illegal. Pretty much every jurisdiction has a noise ordinance at the town, county, or city level. It's a civil misdemeanor, usually you get a ticket, but even then only if you're generating chronic complaints from multiple people.

All the cops would do if called is maybe, just maybe, ask the family to quiet down, which is probably something you should do first. You say they don't speak English very well, but you also said the couple who manages the place was also with them. So perhaps you should talk to them about the problem you're having with your neighbors, and maybe they could relay the message to the family.

She should definitely ask them to quiet down first. Nicely. "I have to work in the morning, and it's getting late. Can you take it inside?" Leave immediately if you get any flak. Politely thank them if they apologize.

To me, it just seems like the least you could do before you involve the police and pull them away from something else that might be a bit more of an emergency.

It's an iffy call. The police actually have long stretches of nothing to do but drive around. It's feast or famine. But they don't like these kinds of calls because they're not sexy, they're not criminal, and they're unlikely to generate an arrest. They really don't want to mediate neighborhood disputes, even though they're tasked with enforcing the laws that are designed to keep neighbors from killing each other.

But if they get the call, they have to come out and investigate.

If the noise is present, then they'll talk to the person making it and tell them to quiet down. Usually, first offense is a verbal warning. If they find themselves going back to the same address and actually finding the noise, then they can start writing tickets.

I had this very issue with this dumbass kid who lived in the apartment next to mine back when I was in California. His mother was a teacher, he was 18 and had no job and wasn't going to school (he was a mooch, basically). A few nights after they move in, I hear this skull poundingly loud punk rock music blaring. It woke me out of a sound sleep at 3am.

I go pound on his door, and get the "oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know it would disturb you."

This gets to be a pattern, at all times of day and night so I finally complain to his mother. She is sheepish, and admits he does this at their permanent home, and she does nothing to stop it. I tell her he can't do that in an apartment complex.

Pattern continues. I complain to the manager who is sympathetic but isn't able to do much. So I start calling the police. Of course, kid sees cops rolls in the lot and shuts the music off so they find nothing. Kid starts giving me grief about all the calls. Cops tell me this is now a civil matter since they never find anything (translation: quit calling).

I continue to complain to management, and even wrote to corporate about it. Son gets banned from the property since he's 18 and not even on the lease.

It reduced the problem, but did not stop it completely. Finally, they moved out because the manager refused to renew their lease because of all the complaints (it wasn't just me). They should have been evicted months before, but the mother would always cry to the manager about how she couldn't control her son, and she enforced the ban but sometimes he'd just show up when she wasn't there.

So, it boils down to this: if you have a noise problem, what are you willing to live with?

You can live with the noise. Or you can potentially live with a hostile neighbor. Some people find the former option a better one. I typically don't.

My suggestion to Food Lady would be to talk to the management couple about the problem, tell them that this has been a pretty persistent problem on work nights, and that she's getting tired of it and wants it to stop, and that she expects them to do something to control the noise issue. That should be the underlying message, couched in polite terms (never lose your temper, you lose automatically if you do).

If the problem still persists, then start calling the cops to establish that the noise issuse is real. The cops will catch them the first few times. Insist on a police report and get a copy. Then when the cops get tired of dealing with it, send the reports to corporate/the owner with a request something be done.

It may take awhile. Chronic noisy neighbors don't change their spots until forced to, and getting someone to take the problem seriously and deal with it can be time consuming and frustrating. But I find it the better option because at least I'm trying to do something instead of suffering in silence.

Never go out and start screaming at the neighbor. That NEVER helps, and can escalate the conflict into something violent.

Dreamstalker
09-02-2014, 03:17 PM
If someone in the family is doing work for a break in the rent, management may not want to do anything; I would also suggest talking to them first though. If you can get other neighbors to talk to them about the noise--up to you whether you want to do it individually or as a group--that would establish a pattern. We had to get everyone together to finally bounce a bad neighbor a few years ago.

It depends on the local noise ordinances/laws, and those of the complex (if the managers aren't enforcing them, the local housing authority may step in). Our lease has a clause that says you cannot engage in any activity that disturbs other tenants from 11PM-7AM and too many excessive noise complaints would constitute a lease violation. I'd check your local laws as well as the lease to see if there's anything about 'quiet hours'.

Food Lady
09-02-2014, 03:46 PM
It is illegal after 10:00 pm and I have been told to call the cops by both this management team and the previous one. I called on them a couple of weeks ago and so I can't believe they're doing it again. I think I will write a note to the manager and drop it off. My only issue is that (literally) screaming kid. The rest of the stuff is not as bad as last time. It's just...her runs around outside screaming bloody murder.

Jester, I'm inclined to agree with you, but at this point I have had so much of this from so many people in this complex that I just could not be civil in asking them to be quiet. Plus, if they've already had cops called on them and they continue, they just don't care.

taxguykarl
09-02-2014, 04:08 PM
Our lease has a clause that says you cannot engage in any activity that disturbs other tenants from 11PM-7AM and too many excessive noise complaints would constitute a lease violation.That's not rare. As for the OP, if the management is aware and refuses to do anything about it, time to go up the company food chain.

EricKei
09-02-2014, 05:23 PM
For the kid headbanging in the middle of the night (or similar issues), if it recurs: Cell phone video footage, with audio, with a date/time stamp on it, if yer phone allows for it. Don't knock on their door/try to go in and complain or anything, just get their unit number on the vid ;) Could be useful for evidence in the future.

prjkt
09-02-2014, 09:42 PM
Had a similar problem with a neighbour.

Would have all his dole-blusher mates over on a work night, car doors open, stereo blasting, and swearing at stupidly loud levels.

After the first few cop visits the music stopped, but the screaming didn't.

So what did its neighbour say to my gf? He complained that her car was too loud in the morning when she left for work, kept waking him up.

It was all she could do not to laugh.

Sapphire Silk
09-02-2014, 10:25 PM
Jester, I'm inclined to agree with you, but at this point I have had so much of this from so many people in this complex that I just could not be civil in asking them to be quiet. Plus, if they've already had cops called on them and they continue, they just don't care.

If you've talked to them, once you've resorted to calling the cops never confront them in person again if you can help it. Go through the cops or management corporate.

Here's a thought. Go up the food chain to corporate first, but if that doesn't work, see if the local magistrate can help you. You might be able to file a civil case; ask for a court order not for money. If they violate the order (like a restraining order) then the cops have to do something about it. That should be a last resort; you're really escalating things when the courts get involved.

For the kid headbanging in the middle of the night (or similar issues), if it recurs: Cell phone video footage, with audio, with a date/time stamp on it, if yer phone allows for it. Don't knock on their door/try to go in and complain or anything, just get their unit number on the vid ;) Could be useful for evidence in the future.

Great idea. I didn't really have this option with my problem: pre smartphones and video phones, and I didn't have a separate video camera at the time. If you have evidence of the problem, it's a lot easier to get management and the cops to take you seriously.

MoonCat
09-02-2014, 11:05 PM
This is called a quality of life issue. Many municipalities have rules about this. Usually they involve something like not making a lot of noise after 10 or in many cases after 11 at night.

And you'd think this would be common sense, but it's not. *sigh*

The people two houses away from us did this Sunday night. Sure, it was a holiday weekend, but guess what? People still need to sleep! There is NO reason a party can't be held INDOORS. You can stay inside and stay up all night if you want, but your neighbors should not be disturbed by your yelling, laughing, loud talk (seriously, what is it with people who have to shout a conversation from 3 feet away from each other?), loud music, etc. It's called consideration for others.

You don't know who around you might actually need to work on the holiday (there is a cop on our street, for example), or who might be ill and need their rest.

And sadly, in many cases you can't approach the noisy people and ask them to tone it down, because they will tell you to fuck off. Then if you call the cops, they'll know (or guess) it was you, and that means retaliation is very possible. So your only choice is often to call the cops to begin with, which may or may not result in peace and quiet.

And all itwould take is for people to be more considerate of other people. That's what living in a community is all about.

Jester
09-03-2014, 04:27 PM
I think I will write a note to the manager and drop it off.

Jester, I'm inclined to agree with you, but at this point I have had so much of this from so many people in this complex that I just could not be civil in asking them to be quiet. Plus, if they've already had cops called on them and they continue, they just don't care.

Okay, so you don't want to deal with them directly. I can understand that. And you've already done it once. So I agree you should go to the management. I don't think however, you should write them a note. It would make a much bigger and better impression if you talked to the management about it directly, face to face.

Gravekeeper
09-03-2014, 05:22 PM
Okay, so you don't want to deal with them directly. I can understand that. And you've already done it once. So I agree you should go to the management. I don't think however, you should write them a note. It would make a much bigger and better impression if you talked to the management about it directly, face to face.

Hi! My name is Gravekeeper and I have heard every noise complaint in the greater Vancouver area for the past 8 years. ( <twitch> ). This is a realm I am intimately familiar with.

Practically every municipality has noise ordinances and bylaws so yes, being a noisy asshole is technically illegal. These bylaws are also quite specific citing not just the times but the sound levels. For example; Where I live continuous noise can't exceed 45dBa after 10pm. Its a $500 fine here for throwing a backyard asshole party at 3am and keeping your neighbours awake.

The one thing that the police and property management companies here like? Documentation. Notes, letters, times and dates. A paper trail. Especially if you're dealing with a resident manager that has someone above them. Because if your resident manager is a dick or an oblivious tool they might say they never heard from you to cover their own ass and then its your word against the managers.

If a property management company is involved they undoubtedly have a procedure in place for dealing with noisy tenants and a paper trail makes it much easier for them to evict said tenants for lease violations.

As for the police, there are for example bylaw enforcement officers that specifically handle these things. You're not taking away the police from more important things. They have a system to handle various priorities of calls with different types of officers. An officer isn't going to respond to a noise complaint while ignoring a stabbing somewhere.

Furthermore, the police don't like morons anymore than you do. When the police are on patrol, they are also keeping an ear out for loud morons after 10pm. Many police departments actually have a specific Party Patrol(tm) for just this purpose. ( And yes, its called the party patrol and no its probably not as fun as it sounds. )

sms001
09-03-2014, 07:40 PM
( And yes, its called the party patrol and no its probably not as fun as it sounds. )

Well, not for one of the parties in any case.

Tama
09-03-2014, 09:58 PM
I can only imagine the Party Patrol around my town. A route I come back through from the Voldemart is called Party Row (college houses) and I was graciously informed of underage drinking at said residences.

Remind me not to go through that place at night during graduation again...

Aethian
09-03-2014, 10:04 PM
MSU uses jr officers in it's party patrol. If your lucky and can get just the right access channel they will post videos that they have broken up the night before. If however it's one if the big home games ie MSU vs UofM then you get full fledged cops knocking on your door.

Gravekeeper
09-04-2014, 02:33 AM
I can only imagine the Party Patrol around my town. A route I come back through from the Voldemart is called Party Row (college houses) and I was graciously informed of underage drinking at said residences.


Thats the other reason cops actually like party patrol. If you're stupid enough to be having a drunken party on your law at 3am chances are you're stupid enough to be breaking a few other laws as well. -.-

Jester
09-04-2014, 02:52 AM
Hi! My name is Gravekeeper...

...and it might be a sin, but I'll take that bet, you're gonna regret, cause I'm the best that's ever been!

Sorry. Couldn't resist. :lol:

Practically every municipality has noise ordinances and bylaws so yes, being a noisy asshole is technically illegal.

Point taken. And you're right. I stand....er, uh, sit corrected. With a beer. And fish. But still corrected.

As for the police, there are for example bylaw enforcement officers that specifically handle these things.

In some cities, yes. In some cities, no. Here in KW, for examples, we do have code compliance officers, which are basically bureaucrats, and they will often respond to noise violations. But as often as not, they will either be accompanied by actual police, or the police will respond without them.

Back home in Tempe, which is not just a college town but home to the Greatest Party School of All Time, every time my roommates and I threw parties and there were noise complaints, the knock on the door was from the boys in blue. If Tempe has such code or bylaw officers, they sure as heck don't work nights. Or at least, they didn't back then. (And we lived half a mile from campus, so it's not like we were out of the party zone or anything.)

The one exception to the above was if it was a noise complaint in the dorms, where I lived for two years. In those cases, it was usually just an RA or some other student working at the dorm who could come around and tell us to "Knock it the fuck off!" :lol:

You're not taking away the police from more important things. They have a system to handle various priorities of calls with different types of officers. An officer isn't going to respond to a noise complaint while ignoring a stabbing somewhere.

True, to a degree. No cop is going to leave a violent crime scene or not go to one because of a noise complaint. But when they are dealing with noise complaints, other nefarious ne'er-do-wells very likely could be up to some mischief in areas the responding officers would normally be patrolling. But yeah, for the most part, you are correct, and once again, I sip corrected.

Many police departments actually have a specific Party Patrol(tm) for just this purpose. ( And yes, its called the party patrol and no its probably not as fun as it sounds. )

Never seen one. Vancouver must be quite the scene.

That being said, during Fantasy Fest, we DO have volunteer "Madness Monitors," but they really just verbally tell people to keep it in their pants. Sometimes figuratively, sometimes literally.

After all, sometimes the Devil deals it hard.

MoonCat
09-04-2014, 03:21 AM
Little story from my old neighborhood:

Once upon a time a bunch of assholes decided to have a party starting at 11:30 PM. Yes. STARTING at 11:30. They moved their stereo outside onto the porch. It was about, oh, maybe 40F at the time, but drunks don't care.

Much loud music, yelling and partying ensued. Cops were called. Warnings were given. Apologies were made. Cops drove slowly away.....noise resumed.....cops, not being stupid, drove back up the street and said, no joke, dudes, wrap it up NOW or someone goes to jail. Party slowly, grugingly, wound down. More or less.

Two hours later, the assholes were fighting in the street with broken bottles. Much screaming, swearing and breaking of glass later, someone did indeed go to jail.

And I took a sick day at work that morning because between the initial party and the, ahem, after-party, I literally got NO sleep until about 6 AM, 2-1/2 hours before I would have to be at work.

Jester
09-04-2014, 03:59 AM
It's stuff like the above story that made even my dumbass 20-23 year old self know how to deal with throwing parties. (I lived in the dorms from 18-20.) Since we didn't want to piss any of our neighbors off or get the cops involved, any time my roommates and I were planning a party, we would go around to our neighbors several days ahead of time, inviting them to said party, and politely asking them to come talk to us first if our party disturbed them. Which usually worked. But since not all neighbors are as polite as we were, and since we weren't always able to get every neighbor at home, occasionally the cops were called. And when they were, we were very polite with them, promised them we would tone it down, and would go back inside and tell everyone to CHILL THE FUCK OUT. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't. But we never got cited, we never were arrested (for our parties, anyways), and only once or twice did the cops make a return visit to our domicile. And if anyone was majorly loud asshole douchebag, as in beyond the norm for an apartment party, WE'D throw them the fuck out. No (intentional) broken bottles, no (physical) fights, no arrests. Because we may have been young and rowdy and stupid, but we weren't THAT stupid.

Gravekeeper
09-04-2014, 03:17 PM
Sorry. Couldn't resist. :lol:


><


In some cities, yes. In some cities, no. Here in KW, for examples, we do have code compliance officers, which are basically bureaucrats, and they will often respond to noise violations. But as often as not, they will either be accompanied by actual police, or the police will respond without them.

It can vary. I don't know what bylaw officers look like down there though. Up here they still look like cops and have their own police vehicles. But they say Peace Officer instead of police on the side and their uniforms have a different badge / crest.

There's basically 5 different types of officers wandering about here: Police, RCMP, Peace Officers, Animal Welfare / Control Officers and the Engineering & Environmental Officers. Depending on whats going on, you'll get 1 of the 5.

Stupid loud parties will be the police, RCMP or a PO depending on where you are and whose closest. POs will handle parties and the party patrol. But anything that sounds domestic obviously gets the police or RCMP.

Loud animals or animals in distress get you a visit from the Animal Welfare officers. ( And subsequently arrested for being a dick to your dog. ). I was a dispatcher for these guys at work afterhours for 2 municipalities. They work jointly with the SPCA officers which gets a bit confusing for some people. Since the two handle different kinds of animals and scenarios.

Any other sort of noise of the non-party variety. Such as construction noise, vehicle noise / alarms, equipment noise, etc gets you a visit by the Engineer Officers. Any noise disturbing the peace that doesn't fit any other category and these guys show up.



Never seen one. Vancouver must be quite the scene.

<Points to his 6 years worth of posts from this city.> Mhmm. -.-




That being said, during Fantasy Fest, we DO have volunteer "Madness Monitors," but they really just verbally tell people to keep it in their pants. Sometimes figuratively, sometimes literally.


Okay that we don't have.

protege
09-05-2014, 01:42 AM
It is illegal after 10:00 pm and I have been told to call the cops by both this management team and the previous one.

It's illegal after 10PM here too. Most people don't care about noise before 9:59. But once the 1-0-0-0 appears, it's time to shut the hell up.

There's a kid across the street from me that has earned the hatred of everyone else on the block. Why? Because when his mom tells him to come in...he starts screaming. I've had my house completely closed up in the middle of winter, and I can still hear him. So then his dad will start screaming...until dad comes out, grabs the kid, and forces him inside. Then they'll yell at each other a few minutes, until the kid goes upstairs to his room. Does it stop there? Fuck no.

He only gets louder. Then, he starts pounding on the window! Not the *frame,* mind you...but the *glass* :eek: screaming his head off the entire time.

In fact, during one of his tantrums, he managed to piss off the old guy (who works nights) next door, who promptly lost it. He not only called the cops but told the kid's mom "Laura, shut your damn kid up, or I'll do it for you." Cops came, cited the parents for the noise, and left.

That kid has had several other tantrums--which have received police attention--but that was his last one after 10PM.

Jester
09-05-2014, 09:34 AM
It can vary. I don't know what bylaw officers look like down there though.

Basically like health inspectors. Pants, polo shirt, maybe a radio, definitely a clipboard. Definitely not cop uniforms, or even parking enforcement uniforms.

There's basically 5 different types of officers wandering about here: Police, RCMP, Peace Officers, Animal Welfare / Control Officers and the Engineering & Environmental Officers. Depending on whats going on, you'll get 1 of the 5.

Every place has a variety of enforcement officers. Here we have KW cops, Monroe County Sheriff Officers (they run they jails and patrol the country roads), Border Patrol, Navy cops, and often various others from the state, such as Florida Fish & Game, and from other military branches, including the Coast Guard, as in addition to the Naval Air Station, we also have a Coast Guard base.

<Points to his 6 years worth of posts from this city.> Mhmm. -.-

Which was part of my point. :lol:

Okay that we don't have.

Well of course not. Because you don't have Fantasy Fest. Which no one does. Although it wouldn't surprise me if other places with similar festivals (New Orleans with Mardi Gras and Rio with Carnival, for example) have similar volunteers to keep things moving and on the up and up.

BlaqueKatt
09-05-2014, 03:52 PM
It's an iffy call. The police actually have long stretches of nothing to do but drive around. It's feast or famine. But they don't like these kinds of calls because they're not sexy, they're not criminal, and they're unlikely to generate an arrest. They really don't want to mediate neighborhood disputes, even though they're tasked with enforcing the laws that are designed to keep neighbors from killing each other.

Depends on the officer, I had one respond that wrote his personal cell on his card because he actually liked the "non glamorous" calls*, and being that he worked nights he had trouble with his neighbours being quiet while he was sleeping.

* he labeled himself a "peace officer" and according to him he was mainly about enforcing the "peace and quiet" ;)

Food Lady
09-07-2014, 12:16 AM
We'll see how it goes tonight. They're out there again.

Sapphire Silk
09-07-2014, 12:26 AM
Depends on the officer, I had one respond that wrote his personal cell on his card because he actually liked the "non glamorous" calls*, and being that he worked nights he had trouble with his neighbours being quiet while he was sleeping.

* he labeled himself a "peace officer" and according to him he was mainly about enforcing the "peace and quiet" ;)

MY kind of officer. He rocks! :yourock: :worship:

wolfie
09-07-2014, 09:54 AM
...and it might be a sin, but I'll take that bet, you're gonna regret, cause I'm the best that's ever been!

(snip)

After all, sometimes the Devil deals it hard.

Looks like you're misquoting Charlie Daniels. You're supposed to play your fiddle hard (which, of course, would lead to noise complaints from the neighbours), and the Devil deals the cards.

BTW, Kia dealers in Atlanta DEFINITELY don't want the devil to show up on their property.:devil:

Jester
09-08-2014, 01:34 PM
Looks like you're misquoting Charlie Daniels. You're supposed to play your fiddle hard (which, of course, would lead to noise complaints from the neighbours), and the Devil deals the cards.

I thought you were misremembering the lyrics, as I was quite sure it was "the Devil deals it hard." But when I went to look up the lyrics to confirm this, a funny thing happened: I found both versions. So I listened to the song, and in that part, well, it could be either one. Now, obviously it's one or the other, and I've always thought that it was the way I originally stated it, but I can't say for sure that I am right or that you are, as I could not find any authoritative source on the net for either one.

Curious.

Tama
09-08-2014, 05:09 PM
I'd say go with 'deals the cards', that's the version I always hear on the radio.

Food Lady
09-08-2014, 09:04 PM
Is that "The Devil Went Down to Georgia?" One of my favorites.