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novicecrafter
08-22-2006, 02:40 AM
I went to the grocery store this evening and witnessed an unbelievably rude employee! There were two employees working together to push in a very long line of carts inside- one male and one female. The female employee was at the front of the carts helping to guide it.

There was an older customer slowly pushing his cart/items out of the store. He could obviously not move very quickly and was trying to get out of the way of the incoming carts. Instead of slowing down or at the very least attempting to stear the carts away from the customer the female employee kept going like he wasnt even there and missed hitting the old man by inches!

He was understandable shaken and said (not unkindly but a little surprised) "you almost hit me" and something along the lines of you should pay more attention.

Instead of apologizing she was extemely rude and argumentative. I couldnt hear the entire conversation but she distinctly said "well its not like I hit you". He asked for her name and she gave it (once again with extreme attitude)

He walked back into the store and found a manager to report the incident. The manager didnt really take it seriously (I guess its because there are a lot of grumpy older customers- but still its not really an excuse). After he left I went up to the same manager and told her that I had witnessed the incident and that she was indeed extremely rude. She still didnt take it seriously. :eek:

I cant help but remember the ridiculous amount of butt kissing I had to endure at the various retail jobs Ive had- I just dont understand how any employee could get away with behaviour like that!!

ditchdj
08-22-2006, 03:37 AM
Call their district manager. I hear that complaints like that make them very hungry for blood.

obod7x7
08-22-2006, 04:38 AM
I realize that it was wrong of her to have such an attitude to that man, but I can totally sympathize with her in this situation as I used to do carts at my store all the time.

When you're pushing a row of carts, it is almost always impossible to slow down or stop them unless you are going up a hill (and even then it is difficult). To stop them, you need to run around to the front of the row and stop them. If there was an older customer in the way, running around to the front may have caused more problems (if the customer was close enough)

Also, it is very hard to get a row of carts going again once it has stopped. The employees were probably tired from pushing carts for hours and did not want to have to expend any more energy.

Plus, when doing carts, people have a knack of getting in your way and making your job even more difficult. Maybe she had been working for hours and was simply sick of it? I rarely have any temper problems at work, but every time I did carts, I would come home extremely irate (from people blocking the entrance, people leaving their carts everywhere, hot/cold weather, physical tiredness, almost getting hit by cars, etc...)

She was rude, yes...but she didn't hit the man. I don't think anybody would allow an entire row of carts knock over an old man. They may have known that they weren't going to hit him.

Strange Magic
08-22-2006, 04:44 AM
How do we know what he said to her 1st? He might have said something that justified her jumping him. I known that managment thinks folks are not supposed to ever react. But being human-she might have been provoked.

Becks
08-22-2006, 04:04 PM
She was rude, yes...but she didn't hit the man. I don't think anybody would allow an entire row of carts knock over an old man. They may have known that they weren't going to hit him.

I wouldn't take the chance of "knowing that they weren't going to hit him". I have watched the cart boys at work, and sometimes the cart line is VERY hard to stop.

Slave to the Phone
08-26-2006, 10:58 PM
I don't think anybody would allow an entire row of carts knock over an old man.

Our neighbor, who is a very sweet little old lady, was getting a cart when she was hit from behind and crushed by a kid pushing a row of carts. Her broken back will probably never fully recover.

First the kid claimed that neighbor had "darted" in front of him. When it was pointed out that 80 year old women are rarely able to "dart" anywhere, he said the controls to the cart pusher thingy locked up.

Security tapes were reviewed and lawyers are involved, but no amount of money will make up for her loss of mobility and constant pain. I do most of her grocery shopping now because she can't stand up that long and the electric carts are usually being used by people who don't need them.

obod7x7
08-27-2006, 03:19 AM
Our neighbor, who is a very sweet little old lady, was getting a cart when she was hit from behind and crushed by a kid pushing a row of carts. Her broken back will probably never fully recover.


I'm sorry to hear that. I suppose there are some horrible people out there. I don't know how anybody could do that on purpose. Hopefully that was just a careless mistake and the kid did not do it on purpose.

Slave to the Phone
08-27-2006, 07:21 AM
I'm sorry to hear that. I suppose there are some horrible people out there. I don't know how anybody could do that on purpose. Hopefully that was just a careless mistake and the kid did not do it on purpose.

From what I understand, it was a careless mistake. The kid was distracted by a couple of hotties walking by.

Still and all...my neighbor will be in pain for the rest of her life and the decreased mobility will likely shorten her life. I don't blame the old guy one little bit for complaining that he had almost been run over. I also don't think that anyone tried to intentially run anyone over, but being hit by anything at that age is a big concern.

PS I agree with the others...more cowbells please :)

KayEm
08-27-2006, 03:54 PM
Plus, when doing carts, people have a knack of getting in your way and making your job even more difficult. Maybe she had been working for hours and was simply sick of it? I rarely have any temper problems at work, but every time I did carts, I would come home extremely irate (from people blocking the entrance, people leaving their carts everywhere, hot/cold weather, physical tiredness, almost getting hit by cars, etc...)

She was rude, yes...but she didn't hit the man. I don't think anybody would allow an entire row of carts knock over an old man. They may have known that they weren't going to hit him.

I agree. I too have to give the employee the benefit of the doubt. Too often whenever I'm pushing big dollies or racks, people see me, but they will NOT move. Instead I get the blank, imperious stare meaning "I'm the Customer..I don't care if you have work to do, you'll wait till good and ready to move".

These people seriously piss me off. I always think "I'm only trying to work here..don't worry about ME!"

So if she had to rush past him just to keep the momentum going on the carts, she just had to. I call him an SC for going whining to management.

kibbles
08-27-2006, 06:12 PM
Why is it, when in this case an employee is acting sucky they are automatically given the benefit of the doubt, but if this was a customer, they are automatically deemed sucky or stupid?

IMO, this seems a case of a Sucky Employee. If a customer shot off at the mouth, no one says well maybe they had a bad day, maybe they had to deal with a lot, etc. etc. They are automatically called sucky customer or stupid customer, but in the case of this employee they are given the benefit of the doubt right off. Why is that?

And why should the man who had almost been hit and had an employee be rude to him be considered an SC for going to management? Sometimes going to management is actually warranted and is not just a move by a SC IMO.

Just curious,

Kibbles

One-Fang
08-27-2006, 10:22 PM
Indeed, the OP states there was someone responsible for steering at the front, so it's not runaway carts, uncontrollable. The guy apparently stayed pretty much where he was, too, so no "darting" about.

Sounds to me like she assumed he wasn't going to be darting about and allowed the carts to come that close because they weren't going to hit him, and doing that meant she didn't have to change their direction. Talk about lazy.

technical.angel
08-28-2006, 04:44 PM
I really can see both sides of the issue. Without seeing what novicecrafter saw (how easy would it be for the employees to get out of the guy's way?), it's hard to tell.

The attitude of the female employee was horrible. I will give you that. So, I'm not against her getting called on it.

And kibbles, and One-Fang, I agree with you.

Jenni :angel:

BunnyJas
08-28-2006, 11:15 PM
IMO, this seems a case of a Sucky Employee. If a customer shot off at the mouth, no one says well maybe they had a bad day, maybe they had to deal with a lot, etc. etc. They are automatically called sucky customer or stupid customer, but in the case of this employee they are given the benefit of the doubt right off. Why is that?

I completely agree. While the carts may have been difficult to move, her attitude was out of line. "Maybe she was having a bad day" is not an excuse. When you are on the clock, you leave your personal feelings at home. Yes, employees are people who have bad days and hard times like everyone else. However, does this ever give you the right to snap at others who have had nothing to do with your troubles? We complain about customers doing this all the time. There is no excuse for their rudeness just like there is no excuse for an employee snapping at a customer who did nothing wrong.

AFpheonix
08-29-2006, 07:24 AM
Unfortunately, when one is being paid to do something, they have to act in a professional manner, and that includes keeping tempers in check.

It would have been just as easy for her to stop, apologize to the gentleman, and then go on her merry way.

As in all things: stay above reproach, and there's very little an SC or an SE can do to you.

RailroadMonster
08-29-2006, 07:53 PM
When I do carts, often times there are very ignorant people who walk right in front of a stack of carts weighing over one hundred pounds going several miles an hour... I've never hit anyone but there have been some close calls, and luckily my store has cameras, so if anyone did get hit, we'd have footage of them dashing in front of the lumbering stack because they needed to get home NOW.

KayEm
08-30-2006, 01:08 AM
When I do carts, often times there are very ignorant people who walk right in front of a stack of carts weighing over one hundred pounds going several miles an hour... I've never hit anyone but there have been some close calls, and luckily my store has cameras, so if anyone did get hit, we'd have footage of them dashing in front of the lumbering stack because they needed to get home NOW.

Which is why I'm siding with the employees in this issue. People just don't seem to comprehend OR care that we have work to actually do that doesn't involve them directly. They get in the way and STAY there. They stare at you and completely ignore you. We're human guys, PLUS we don't make an awful lot of money. Only a robot could smile and act "professional" (I hate that term since we aren't paid like professionals) 100% of the time.

obod7x7
08-30-2006, 01:37 AM
I don't think anybody should be siding with either the customer or the employee. Nobody but the original poster knows what exactly happened, and even the OP may not know what was said between the two.

I just wanted to suggest a few reasons why the employe may have had an attitude. Cart duty is not a fun job and even the best people will walk away from that job angry. There is a constant flow of carts that you need to get off the parking lot and there is a constant flow of carts that need replaced in the lobby. You have to be moving ALL THE TIME or you will get behind.

kibbles
08-31-2006, 02:03 AM
Well if an employee almost hits someone, then the decent thing would be to simply apologize, not be rude IMO. And no matter how sucky a job, it's no excuse or free reign for an employee to be ignorant to customers, just as there is no excuse for someone being a sucky customer because they are having a bad day.

And you said that no one should side with anyone because only the original poster knows what happened...well that can be said for every single post or story about a sucky customer, we can only go by what the op tells us. But people take sides there all the time.

obod7x7
08-31-2006, 02:18 AM
And you said that no one should side with anyone because only the original poster knows what happened...well that can be said for every single post or story about a sucky customer, we can only go by what the op tells us. But people take sides there all the time.

Yes, people take sides all the time, but in most cases the poster knows exactly what was said or done. That is not the case in this situation.

Please understand that I am not automatically assuming that the employee did nothing wrong. She very well might have. I realize that there are rude employees. I am just asking people to consider the fact that it *may not* have been the employee who was originally rude.

kibbles
08-31-2006, 03:04 AM
I get that, but all I was saying was the in some instances the same considerations should be given to some customers as well :)

Kibbles

JuniorMintz
08-31-2006, 03:40 AM
Which is why I'm siding with the employees in this issue. People just don't seem to comprehend OR care that we have work to actually do that doesn't involve them directly. They get in the way and STAY there. They stare at you and completely ignore you. We're human guys, PLUS we don't make an awful lot of money. Only a robot could smile and act "professional" (I hate that term since we aren't paid like professionals) 100% of the time.

Hey don't get me wrong, I hate just about everyone and everything most of the time, but I have to disagree with you. Strongly.

YES, we are human, and not robots, but the old guy was a human too.

Accidents happen. If the guy had complained to management over a near miss even though the girl had apologized, then yes, he'd be a dick.

But that's not what happened. She almost hit him, and whether or not she meant to has *nothing* to do with it. A quick apology would have likely smoothed everything over, and everyone could have gone on their merry ways. It's just basic manners, really. Pay rates and "professionalism" have nothing to do with it.

She could be cursing him up and down in her brain, and that's her right. But he's an old man, and they can't always jump out of the way like we'd like them to. She acted like an immature little bitch, and he had every right to complain to management about it. He wasn't complaining about almost getting hit, guys, he was complaining about her piss poor attitude about it and he had every right to do so!

Obviously, the customer is NOT always right, but applies to employees too. Remember, sucky customers usually have jobs too!

Greenday
08-31-2006, 05:13 AM
People just don't seem to comprehend OR care that we have work to actually do that doesn't involve them directly. They get in the way and STAY there. They stare at you and completely ignore you.

This doesn't seem to be the case though based on what was originally posted. From what was originally posted, an older man was leaving the store and the path he took happened to be in the approach of a bunch of carts being gathered. Now, one person said it'd be hard to go from the back of the carts to the front in time to stop them, but with one employee in back and one in front, there would be time to stop the carts and/or redirect them out of the customer's path. If the customer jumped out in front of the carts, I'd absolutely agree the guy was a moron. But that doesn't seem to be what happened, and the fact that the girl showed no remorse for nearly hitting someone makes her appear pretty rude.

ladodger34
08-31-2006, 05:35 AM
Which is why I'm siding with the employees in this issue. People just don't seem to comprehend OR care that we have work to actually do that doesn't involve them directly. They get in the way and STAY there. They stare at you and completely ignore you. We're human guys, PLUS we don't make an awful lot of money. Only a robot could smile and act "professional" (I hate that term since we aren't paid like professionals) 100% of the time.

Just based on the OP, it seems like the old guy made the effort to get out of the way and the girl up front didn't make make an attempt to avoid the guy. At this point, we can probably give the girl a pass on this. Maybe she thought the guy was moving faster, didn't think they were going to hit him, or honestly had a brain cramp and didn't see the dude. Mistakes happen, no one was hurt, etc.

She made the situation worse by her actions afterward. It seems like the guy was pretty calm for almost getting hit. Some folks would have been a lot more hostile and would have been somewhat justified in doing so.

She might have had a horrible day and all, but a simple "I'm sorry, I thought you were going to move to the right or I didn't see you" or some other lame half-assed apology would have been better than the response she gave him.

novicecrafter
08-31-2006, 01:22 PM
Wow? I had forgotten about this post and didnt realize how many replies had been made. I should have clarified a few things- it was one of those "you had to have been there" expieriences.

Thank you to those who have explained the difficulty of stopping a moving line of carts. I should however mention that the employees were not using an automatic cart pusher of any kind. There were two people (one in the front to guide and one in the back for pushing) pushing approx 10 carts. So it could indeed have been extremely difficult to stop or slow down. Perhaps it was also too difficult to change the direction of the line (even if only slightly).

Honestly what I was more surprised with was her attitude after the fact. The old man stopped and turned to her (after the carts stopped moving) and did not automatically start yelling at her. He instead said "you almost hit me" in a surprised tone (not angry yet). In my opinion this whole thing could been easily remedied if she had simply said something along the lines of "Im sorry sir I could not stop it in time" or "Im sorry sir I did not intend to hit you I thought I had more time/space then I did". I believe that he would have been satisfied with the apology (he didnt seem to be a particularly rude or unreasonable person).

Even if he wasnt and went on some sort of tirade on the rudeness of young people these days she would have fulfilled her obligation of professionalism (or being a decent human being at least). When it really comes down to it I believe that she should have apologized. Its hard to relate some of the more subtle aspects of a conversation online in text- but she really did have quite an attitude. Both in her words and in her body language/facial expressions.

*shrugs* I just remember having been made to apologize and kiss butt for the most ridiculus reasons (as Im sure we all have) in my various places of retail employment. I just dont understand her reasoning for not apologizing when it would make sense.

protege
08-31-2006, 04:35 PM
When I do carts, often times there are very ignorant people who walk right in front of a stack of carts weighing over one hundred pounds going several miles an hour...

I always hated cart duty at Hechinger's. At the time, they had these stupid posts along the sidewalk to prevent the carts from 'disappearing' or being dumped at the bus stops. Stupid, lazy idiots would take a cart from one store, walk all over the shopping center with it, then dump it at the bus stop when it was time to go home. Because of the posts, the sidewalk was usually crowded with carts. It was much worse if management had set up the plant display though.

Usually, I could get the carts done pretty damn quick. Because it was difficult to turn strings of carts on the narrow sidewalk, I tried to not let the strings get too long; 8-10 was the limit. I don't recall hitting anyone, or having people step in front of me. Of course popping both front doors open at once kinda prevents that problem ;)

With all that said, I don't really have any sympathy for the employee. She nearly hit someone, and then got pissy when called on it. Sorry, but I don't tolerate that crap. In fact, I nearly got someone fired for it...after he nearly ran down my 90-year-old grandmother as we were leaving the store. She doesn't walk very well as it is, and the twit clipped (and nearly knocked her down) as he was pushing carts into the store. We were both pissed :eek: Trust me, it took all I had not to spear the guy with the nearest flagpole.

But, it gets better! When we went in to complain, it turns out that the store owner is related to the guy who used to rent out some of her farmland :devil: Last I heard, the guy got fired for hitting someone else with carts. Karma's a bitch, especially in a small town :)

KayEm
08-31-2006, 08:37 PM
Again..people need to stay out of the way when employees are pushing heavy items. We all get sick of playing the obstacle course game. Staying on the employees side. Sorry. And this is supposed to be a pro-employee anti-customer site anyhow.

kibbles
08-31-2006, 08:42 PM
Sorry, but this is not an anti-customer site IMO. This is an anti-sucky customer site. If someone wasn't in the way on purpose and was just shocked at almost being hit, a simple apology was what any decent human being would do. No one said anything about the employee should be playing an obstacle game, just act decently..that's all.

And yes customers should stay out of the way when employees are pushing heavy items. But employees should also have common curtesy to apologize when an honest mistake has been made. And being sick of playing the obstacle game is no excuse for an employee to be rude to a customer who has done nothing to them.

Kibbles

Rapscallion
08-31-2006, 08:46 PM
We also have a section for sightings of sucky customers and employees not at work, as well as a section for cursing out co-workers, not to mention the section for appreciating what your colleagues and customers have done. As usual, it's usually a minority of people on each side who act suckily.

Just because you're on our side of the counter does not mean you are always going to get it right. Some people are just not suited for the job of customer service.

Without being there and seeing, we can't say much about the situation as presented.

Rapscallion

technical.angel
08-31-2006, 08:58 PM
Sorry KayEm, this is more of a common sense web site.

If an employee is in the wrong (as in this case), we're not going to side with the employee just because it's an employee against customer.

I'm not going into the physics of cart moving. I didn't see what novicecrafter saw, so I don't know if the customer or the employees could have changed the situation.

The thing that the employee was totally in the wrong for was how she responded to the gentleman that was almost hit. He vioced a complaint, without being terribly rude or snotty. She should have aplogized, and gone on with her duties. She chose to be rude. I can not side with that.

Jenni :angel:

Ree
09-01-2006, 01:37 AM
How do we know what he said to her 1st? He might have said something that justified her jumping him.
Hmmm...well, I guess we read the OP and find out, shall we?
He was understandable shaken and said (not unkindly but a little surprised) "you almost hit me" and something along the lines of you should pay more attention.
So, a man who was nearly run down by carts tells the person to be more careful in a manner that a witness describes as "not unkind". Apparently, that can be taken as firing the first shot in a verbal attack by a sucky customer? Interesting.
People just don't seem to comprehend OR care that we have work to actually do that doesn't involve them directly. <snip>
We're human guys, PLUS we don't make an awful lot of money. Only a robot could smile and act "professional" (I hate that term since we aren't paid like professionals) 100% of the time. Sorry, but this is not an anti-customer site IMO. This is an anti-sucky customer site You know what?
I'm sorry that you work a sucky job. I'm sorry that you are not being paid what you feel you are worth, but the fact of the matter is, customers do not give one flying fart what your problems are, or how much you are being paid, and there’s not a thing wrong with that. They are only there to make a purchase. Your job is to assist them in that endeavour.

You took the job. I assume you knew what your duties would be, and you knew what your hourly wage was. You knew you would be dealing with customers. From what I know this is not your first customer service job, so it's not like this is an entirely foreign concept to you.
I read the previous posts, and I can't help but think of that line, "I'd get so much work done if it wasn't for the damn customers," and envision you, standing in the middle of a well-stocked bakery, sighing contentedly, with not a customer in sight, saying, “Ahhh…at last…my shelves are full.”
I'm sorry, but all those heavy carts that are being hauled around full of stock...and all those shelves you are trying to stock, well, in case you didn't realize...they are for the customers to purchase, because, that is the point of the business. What the heck is the point in getting all those jobs done if there are no customers in the store to buy that stock??

Customers are not getting in our way, inconveniencing us, or interrupting us. They are shopping.
Our job is to work around them, and not the other way around.

CustomersSuck is not, nor has it ever been “anti-customer”. We are all about the trials and tribulations of dealing with sucky customers.
‘Customer’ and ‘sucky customer’ are not synonymous.

kibbles
09-01-2006, 05:28 AM
Excellent post Ree, I agree 100% :) After that post, there really isn't much to add :D

Kibbles

JuniorMintz
09-01-2006, 05:39 AM
Again..people need to stay out of the way when employees are pushing heavy items. We all get sick of playing the obstacle course game. Staying on the employees side. Sorry. And this is supposed to be a pro-employee anti-customer site anyhow.

Actually, from what I understand, there is a new introduction that states the site philosophy pretty clearly.

We're here so the oppressed can vent and celebrate. We're not here for people to debate or argue with each others. We have our purpose and will remain true to it. Some customers suck, and this is where we talk about them.

Hold on, we just said 'some'...

That's right. Not all customers suck. The very philosophy of this site is that not all customers are evil and should be treated with contempt. We even have a section of the forum for praising customers who go out of their way to help workers deal with their life.
We're here for the minority who make themselve noticeable by acting ... suckily. There is a huge mass of people who are barely noticeable because they act as normal human beings, but others commit acts of weapon-grade stupidity or cruelty that stun even the most hardened CSR. That's why we're here. Be they cheating the system, stealing, scamming, dumber than a bagful of spanners, entitlement-minded, or the most loathsome creature to have set foot in sunlight and still survived, this is where we gather to speak of their foulness.

This is customerssuck.com. While there are customers like that, this place will exist.

I know you've been through and are going through some difficult times (and believe me, I'm well aware that "difficult" is probably oversimplifying things) but having this black and white, me vs. them, if you're not with me you're against me view of the world is *not* going to do any good.

KayEm
09-02-2006, 04:49 PM
Juniormintz,

I do appreciate your meaning behind your words, but the truth is..I'm not the one who started the "us against them" mindset in the first place. Corporations are the ones who set these things up and pit management against employee.

Ree,

I'm sorry, but you are management and everything you say sounds like the same managerial excuse me, BS that we, the employees get at my store everyday.

What happens when people go into management ? me and my co-workers wonder about this every single day. Do they suddenly forget what it's like below the ranks ? Because that's what it seems like.

I hope you don't mind if I use you, as a manager to vent to because believe me, the people under you would thank me for it.

Yes...I AM happy when there is hardly anyone in the store and my shelves are finally full and NEAT. Why ? Because if my shelves weren't kept full and neat I would get into TROUBLE from managers like you. Thats why.

Secondly, customers wouldn't be getting any service if those shelves weren't full and continually kept faced and neat, because you, the management, demand that we spend all our time stocking and facing them, which in turn means less time for customer service.

Why can't you (as a manager) see that ? I just don't get it. You guys demand the impossible from the employees and then they get in trouble when it doesn't happen. How is this fair ? I've never once had a manager come along and say to me "KayEm...your shelves are looking a little bare, but it's the first of the month, and all the welfairies are shopping, and we know how messy and piggish they are, so it's ok..get to it when you can". All we get from management is "Gotta keep 'em full and neat !!!!"

Management views things from one perspective. And it's the perspective that keeps themselves from getting in trouble and enriching their bonuses. They don't give a frogs fat ass for the employees below them. I am sorry if this offends you Ree, but I can tell you, I am writing this on behalf of many of my co-workers who ASKED me to last night when I told them about your post.

Lastly, regarding the original post. The man shouldn't have been telling the employee to "Be careful" in the first place. I think the employee probably got offended by being told how to do his job, he probably had the confidence and experience to know he wasn't going to hit the old codger in the first place. I know this is a common complaint at this site, being told how to do your job by customers. How would he like it if we went to his job and told him what to do ?

When customers say things like that, it undermines our confidence and pride in knowing that we know what we are doing and do it well. Customer service is a thankless job anyway, but when people do that it makes us feel really low.

Rapscallion
09-02-2006, 07:35 PM
Ree,

I'm sorry, but you are management and everything you say sounds like the same managerial excuse me, BS that we, the employees get at my store everyday.
<SNIP>
I hope you don't mind if I use you, as a manager to vent to because believe me, the people under you would thank me for it.


I need a laugh, but this isn't even remotely funny.

What proof do you have that all managers are the same? In short, they're people, and people are all different.

The good managers don't forget that people they supervise are people too. There are many bad managers, and I'm guessing that you've only ever seen bad ones. Did you even bother reading any of Ree's posts when she agonised over what she had to do with the employees who lied to get another employee sacked? How about when she agonised over to whom to give an award?

We have many other managers on this board, and I think they'll agree that it's not an easy job. Ree is, as far as I'm concerned, a good manager. She's human, just like everyone else. If you want to lump people all together in a war on a certain type, you're not going to do it here.

Have you ever given any thought as to why managers are as they are? It's circular, in my view. Managers have to follow the dictates of desk limpets, who in turn follow the dictates of shareholders and the bottom line. The bottom line dictates efficiency, not being nice.

The bottom line shows that cheap stuff sells. In order to remain in business, economies have to be made, and staff are one such economy. If targets are not met, their jobs are on the line.

Do you really think managers go home and say, "Hi Honey. Had a great day. Sacked five people for not sweating enough!" only to have their spouse rejoice that they managed to beat the total for the previous day?

I'll lay it on the line, Kayem. You have choices. You could think on this and see things from more than just your viewpoint and see if you can improve things for yourself. Think about that. You could concentrate on what this site is about - us venting about sucky customers, but not the ones who do deign to pay money so we have a job and can keep a roof over our heads. You could try and find a manager who is actually decent.

What you cannot do is dictate policy on this site, nor can you dictate how everyone here can and should think. Feel free to start your own site dedicated to how you are right, but I'm not forcing you to log in and attack other members.

Rapscallion

KayEm
09-02-2006, 08:53 PM
I wasnt' attacking anybody. But Ree is the one who was trying to tell me how to think. I wasn't doing that. Where exactly did I do that ?

On the subject of management vs. employees, it really is a huge issue, Raps. You seem to think that it's only me that feels this way. But when I told my co-workers what Ree said from a management perspective, they ALL told me I should come back here and have a go at management for them. To open their eyes to the plight of the employee.

I dont' care if it's business or not, not having feelings and consideration for your employees and demanding the impossible of them is just plain wrong. If this site isn't willing anymore to listen to the employees side, it may just as well be a pro-management/corporation, and therefore anti-employee website. It used to be different. Now all I get whenever I vent about something is told why I shouldn't feel the way I do because it's a business. But we aren't here for that and I think I can speak for a lot of posters here.

Irving Patrick Freleigh
09-02-2006, 09:13 PM
Again..people need to stay out of the way when employees are pushing heavy items. We all get sick of playing the obstacle course game. Staying on the employees side. Sorry. And this is supposed to be a pro-employee anti-customer site anyhow.

Oh really? I must've missed the disclaimer saying the employee is always right and the customer is always wrong.

There is such a thing as sucky employees, and this cart girl definitely sounds like one. It is hard sometimes to maneuver carts when you have people in the way, but that doesn't give you the right to act like a jerk toward the people in your way. It certainly doesn't sound like the man was being rude to the cart girl; he was just telling her she almost ran him over.

I read this story and I thought back to my now-departed (thank God) salesfloor supervisor yelling at the poor girl who drove a handi-care van and was unloading an elderly, wheelchair-bound lady, because the van was parked in front of the doors and she couldn't bring the carts in.

Rapscallion
09-02-2006, 09:53 PM
I wasnt' attacking anybody. But Ree is the one who was trying to tell me how to think. I wasn't doing that. Where exactly did I do that ?


I think IPF has beaten me to the point you required answering above. You have a definite idea of how this site ought to be, but it isn't.


On the subject of management vs. employees, it really is a huge issue, Raps. You seem to think that it's only me that feels this way. But when I told my co-workers what Ree said from a management perspective, they ALL told me I should come back here and have a go at management for them. To open their eyes to the plight of the employee.

I dont' care if it's business or not, not having feelings and consideration for your employees and demanding the impossible of them is just plain wrong. If this site isn't willing anymore to listen to the employees side, it may just as well be a pro-management/corporation, and therefore anti-employee website. It used to be different. Now all I get whenever I vent about something is told why I shouldn't feel the way I do because it's a business. But we aren't here for that and I think I can speak for a lot of posters here.

I'm sure they responded to your version of events. How about they come here themselves and respond after reading it for themselves? I know we get roughly six people registering here a day as a minimum. Are any of those registrations your colleagues? Get them on here.

That's a challenge. Get them to make you their referrer. I can see such things from the admin panel.

Alternatively, they could have a go at your management, since it seems that they are at fault.

How about setting up a site within your ideals? Another challenge. Since you're so right about everything, I'm sure you'll succeed. I'm sure you'lll take the many disaffected members with you.

If anyone else agrees with Kayem, PM me. I'd like to get a measure of any discontent. If you're happy with the place, please leave my inbox quiet, since I'm about to get an avalanche of complaints.

Does the fact that I set up a section to honour the customers who make our days better disturb you, Kayem? Do you see no chance of happiness in your working life?

Yes, the situation is plain wrong, and that's why this site and others exist. I'm not about to start a movement to change the world. If you want to do that, go ahead. I'll watch with great interest. However, if you think you're going to use this site for it, you've got another think coming.

Things are not black-and-white, us vs them. I made the choice to ensure that bitterness was tempered on this site, but if that doesn't please you, feel free to not log on.

Rapscallion

Ree
09-02-2006, 09:53 PM
Actually, Kay Em, I have only been management for about 5 months.
I admit that, for many years prior, I was doing managerial type jobs without the actual title, but has it ever occurred to you that I had the very same mindset before I became a manager, and perhpas THAT IS WHY I MOVED UP THROUGH THE RANKS??
Perhaps the reason you feel all managers are the same is not that the title changes people, but it's the fact that people who actually start out with a certain way of thinking usually end up in management positions.

I have only worked in 3 places, and at every place I worked, it was only a matter of time before I was promoted, because management recognized that I knew I was there to do my job to the best of my ability, and I am just one of those people who walks in on a situation and for some reason, ends up getting stuck as the leader, whether I want it or not. :p

For the record, as a manager, I would only be upset that shelves are not being kept filled as fast as the customers are buying, if I walk in to find my staff sitting on their butts while the stock is flying out the door.
As long as my staff is trying their best to keep things looking full and neat, then they receive my respect and praise.

The reason keeping shelves filled is even an issue is that customers cannot buy what they cannot see.

It's very unfair of you to assume that I wouldn't even pitch in to help, because I do. If my staff is working at their full potential and they still can't keep up, I work alongside of them and get the job done. You see, I believe that as a manager, my job of making sure my customer gets serviced does not end with my promotion, and does not fall only on my employees' shoulders.

(I'm wondering if perhaps you saw that I actually care so much about my employees that I even posted a poll on here to ask you guys to help me decide how to give recognition to 2 young guys who have done a fantastic job. If you had, then perhaps you wouldn't be so quick to tar me with that 'evil brainwashed management' brush.)

I do wish to apologize, though, for any comments in my post that came across as harsh or attacking you. I wasn't trying to hurt or embarrass you, but I read your comments and they frustrate me.

It concerns me that you have obviously worked with some real losers if you see all management this way.

I really do care about your situation and I worry that you are surrounded by such negativity. I totally understand that your company is probably not one of the top 10 companies to work for, and that jobs are scarce where you are, so you are limited in your options.
I also know that some people are just not meant for customer service, and I really wish that you could find an area where your skills would be put to their best use and you would be valued as a person.

JuniorMintz
09-02-2006, 11:39 PM
Juniormintz,

I do appreciate your meaning behind your words, but the truth is..I'm not the one who started the "us against them" mindset in the first place. Corporations are the ones who set these things up and pit management against employee.




Wrong. You control your own mindset, and if you've let yourself become so bitter and warped that you can't even see black from white anymore, if "the suits" really have *that* much of a grip on you, then that's your own failing.

And as far as your little tirade about Ree... how dare you. Do you even know a THING about that woman, one of the most sympathetic, loyal, and loving people I've ever known? Do you know how hard she works, and how she has ALWAYS gone to bat for those people that she has faith in? She gives people the benefit of the doubt, even though they rarely deserve it to begin with. She is a wonderful woman, and for you to rag on her because *gasp!* she's a manager is a rotten and pathetic thing to do.

There was no reason for that. None at all. It shows a lot about her character that in her last post she actually apologized to YOU. After all the rotten things that you said, even! You should be embarassed. You owe her an apology, at the very least.

Ree
09-03-2006, 12:24 AM
Thanks, Juniormintz, for your defense of me. I really appreciate it, but as a mod, I have to say that KayEm was responding to what she felt were unfair comments by me.

Perception is important.

She saw someone in a managerial position challenging her view of things, and for a moment, she forgot to look beyond my "manager" title at work and see the "Ree" who really is more than that, and who, I hope, has proven that to her on more than one occasion.

The comments to me were defensive, I think.

KayEm, I think that you are beginning to feel that you are alone in everything, and that you don't have the support of the members of CS because they really don't understand where you are coming from in your hatred of all things manager and customer.

I think you're right. We can't see it your way, as everything isn't as absolute as you seem to feel it is.
If we hate all customers, well...that's a bit of a paradox, as we are all customers at some point in our lives.

If we are always pro-employee, then, again, if you should have a bad experience with a customer service rep who is poorly trained or even rude, well, by your defintion, we should be taking their side.

Some customers are sucky. Some are wonderful.
Some employees are wonderful. Some are sucky.

Yes, some managers are idiots and don't deserve the role they have been given. Some are intelligent and caring people balancing the best interests of their employees as well as their companies.

To hate all managers simply because they are managers, and have authority over you seems like an exhausting and futile exercise for you.

It's one thing to rightfully resent it when a manger is treating you unfairly, but when a manager is simply asking you to do the job that you were hired to do, and you hate him for it, that doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's one thing to rightfully resent it when a customer is rude and treating you badly, but when you hate him for simply picking up all 6 loaves of bread that you just put out, that doesn't make a lot of sense either.

You still can't seem to see it from the perspective that having customers is a good thing for a business, or why would we be in business?

If you are going to resent that a manager expects certain jobs to be done within a certain timeframe for a certain wage, and you are going to have to do these things while still serving your customers, then why bother punching in?

If you want to come on here and talk about some asshole who has just made you feel like the underside of pondscum, be it manager or customer, then we are all here for you with shoulders waiting and arms open.

This is where we get back to perception, though. If, when you explain it to us, we see that you are feeling this way because of an ingrained hatred of the 'otherguy', and what they did really wasn't so bad, we're probably gonna call it as we see it.

To get back to the topic of the OP in this, you feel that, even though some guy, walking back to his car after just spending his hard-earned money to help pay that girl's wages, is almost run him down and offered no apology, that does not give him any right to tell her to be careful, because that is a customer telling her how to do her job???

I don't really think you will get a lot of support for that argument, and I'm sorry if that ends up making this site look anti-employee and pro-customer in your eyes.

csdrone
09-03-2006, 01:23 PM
The OP: The cart pushing girl was in the wrong. It would have justified a polite email or call to someone like a SM or DM (or the corporate 800# or website) discussing the incident.

And to the hijack: Managers are not all evil. Employees are not always right. All customers are NOT sucky. Ree put it beautifully: the customer is there to purchase an item or service. If the item/service is not provided quickly, the customer will leave and likely not return (telling their friends and relatives the story). And not getting enough sales per hour/items per hour means the store will slash hours/jobs..... I understand it is hard to deal with stupid people (remember the SC's are a small fraction of the customers you see every day) and to have a less than stellar job (I live in the upper midwest: jobs are sparse) BUT losing the attitude makes a difference. Yes you had to stop stocking to help a customer. But if you did not have the customers to interrupt your day, would the store stay open for long? :eek: Thanks for the reminder guys! :)

KayEm
09-03-2006, 02:25 PM
Ree,

I do know that you strive for fairness in your dealings with your employees. I've read a lot of your posts so I've seen that. You're right in that It was defensiveness in my posts. I wasn't meaning to attack you.

I've only ever said what I truly felt in my posts. None of what I have ever written has been fake or said just to agree with everyone else. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. And when I don't, I say so and try to explain why.

I think that CS could be such a great grassroots movement to begin to change the way the world treats CS workers ? What's wrong with that ?

I think my husband knows my true motivations and feelings. He knows that I don't hate all managers and he knows that my only motivation is to try to make things fairer for the worker ants, those on the lowest stratum on the totem pole. He also knows that I don't become defensive unless I feel seriously cornered.
It's like nothing I am trying to say is really being heard, so I give up..ok ? You guys win. You're in charge and my viewpoint counts for nothing so I'll go away.

Ree,

Thanks again for your kindnesses in your messages to me and in your posts. I do appreciate them more then it seems in my posts. I really do.

NightAngel
09-03-2006, 02:55 PM
Let's get back on track with the OP okay peoples?

Thanks.

Ree
09-03-2006, 04:15 PM
Let's get back on track with the OP...Excellent idea.

SuperDan
09-03-2006, 06:14 PM
Back on track with the OP, I can say from my own carts experience that it is NOT easy to change the direction of a line of carts, nor is it easy to stop them, depending on how fast they were going and what sort of slope (even if only slight and unnoticeable) was involved. Sure, either would be easier with the girl at the front of the line, but not that much easier. Consult your friendly neighborhood physics teacher and ask for an explanation of the law of momentum and you'll find out why it's going to take a while to stop a line of fifteen 60 lb carts travelling three miles per hour. Likewise, keep in mind that the rear wheels of the standard shopping cart are fixed, and the wheels that do allow free movement are passing between at least two sets of these fixed wheels. There is only enough freedom in a row of carts using the easier rolling friction of the wheels to make hugely wide turns--changing the direction drastically, especially while stopped or moving slowly requires sliding the fixed wheels in a direction they don't roll, and sliding friction is much harder to overcome. I won't even get into the carts having a mind of their own, but I think anyone who has worked with carts would agree with me on that one.

This being said, I can understand why the cart pushers didn't stop or change course. Actually, in some cases stopping or changing course just because you're about to narrowly miss something may end up making you get even closer and possibly even hit it. And it's amazing how LITTLE people in general think about how dangerous shopping carts can be. I've lost count of how many people an hour decide that rather than wait four seconds for me to be out of the way they need to "run" directly in front of my cart row, sometimes even shooting a narrow gap between my already moving cart row and another row that I'm trying to combine mine with. (I put "run" in quotes because it isn't a run, it's more of a short-strided jog that makes it look like they're running but in reality they just look like dumbasses and are probably moving slower than they were originally walking. Bonus points if they smile at you and wave.) Seriously people, carts are dangerous. Get slammed into by a moving line of carts and you WILL be experiencing the joys of hip replacement surgeries. Just be patient, be aware of your surroundings, keep your kids with you in the parking lot and away from the front of the carts in the cart-room if the cart-room is loaded from the other side, and please take your cart away from the other carts in such a cart room (don't just pull it out barely enough to step between it and the carts behind it) before you take ten minutes to secure your kid and purse, clean off the cart, etc.

Now that you've all just had a lesson in shopping cart physics and SC stunts, please make everyone you know aware of these issues. And on the flipside, cart people need to be equally aware of their surroundings because not everybody has had the education that you have just received. Yes, I'm betting the cart pushers knew they were going to miss the man, even if narrowly, and that it would have probably made the situation worse had they tried to stop or turn the carts. But that's still no reason to be rude to the customer. A simple "I'm sorry" would have sufficed. Although I'm frustrated that some people don't carry a high regard for their own safety, being merely uninformed about how cart pushing works does not an SC make.