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LingualMonkey
10-17-2008, 08:56 PM
No, I really don't.

You see, on the first day of class, I told you (and everyone else) that if you show up, do the work, and try your honest best, I would work with you. I would arrive early or stay late at your convenience. I would meet you somewhere and discuss your writing with you despite the fact that I commute 50 minutes each way to this school. I also told you that if you decided to blow this class off, which you did, I would not be available for you. I have 120 students, two children, a long commute, and a wife who refuses to cook.

"But...but...I'm transferring to the University of Illinois at Chicago!"

Good for you. You're doing it without this credit.

"But...but...I had a car accident!"

Yes, you did. Between weeks 8 and 9 of an 11-week quarter. This explains your attendance to 6 of the first 16 classes exactly how?

"But...but...you're not being helpful."

You're right. It's because you've given me no reason to care about your education because you evidently don't care about your education, either.

"But...but...I need this class to graduate."

Yes, you do. If you end up in my class, the same rules will apply, and since I teach about half of the English composition sections here, you've got a 50-50 chance of being in my class again. Roll those dice, Sugar.

"But...but...I can complain about this."

You sure can. And I have the attendance records to prove my side of the argument as well as four grade reports that indicate that you have done absolutely none of the homework or in-class assignments and have not participated in this class a bit. Since homework, in-class work, and participation account for 40% of your grade, the best you could do--and this is if you turned in PERFECT rough drafts and final drafts of the two papers, impossible now because one is late by several weeks (from before your accident)--the best you could do is a D-. Since you're looking at some serious point reductions for at least the first paper, your absolute best grade possible right now is 50% for the quarter, and that spells "F."

"But...but..."

We're done here.

Not word-for-word, obviously, but this student had a serious entitlement complex going on. She failed. She's retaking the class with another instructor. So far, once again, her attendance is at 25% for the quarter. She really doesn't want this credit to transfer.

JoitheArtist
10-18-2008, 06:30 AM
One of my roommates freshman year at college was one of those types. Nice girl, but sheeesh! She turned things in late, never went to class,and would then complain about her grades!!! Me and the other roommate were like, :eek: :wtf: :headscratch:

And this was a private school, $25K a year. Why would you blow $100K just to fail your way through school? Do people not have enough self-respect to put a modicum of effort towards their own education anymore? Siiiiiiiiigh...

BTW, on behalf of good students everywhere, thank you for being a good teacher. :)

KhirasHY
10-18-2008, 07:23 AM
You sound like a teacher that I would love to have in any school.

One of my favorite English professors in history would tell every class that, if we failed to produce a satisfactory paper, we would be revising it until he felt it met his criteria. Several people left the class immediately, while I simply smiled and treated that statement as a direct challenge. We still keep in touch, and I'm quite proud of his admission that I am one of the few students who has ever given him a paper that made him utter the word "Wow."

Of course, more than half of that class also failed, since he was considered the nightmare of the English department. From what I hear, he's blacklisted by every sports team; they refuse to let their star players end up in his classes, since he demands a level of literary compentancy that most of them can't achieve...

Edit: Incidentally, is this particular student a High Schooler, or a College-level student? She strikes me as High School material, but your approach seems to be more of a College perspective. I'm just curious, since I am of the (ego driven) opinion that most High School teachers go wrong fairly often with their students by not taking a hard line approach and preparing them for the fact that a College professor won't hold their hand through their education. :D If you're a High School teacher, then I applaud you for actually making your students work with their brains for a change...

JoitheArtist
10-18-2008, 07:28 AM
One of my favorite English professors in history would tell every class that, if we failed to produce a satisfactory paper, we would be revising it until he felt it met his criteria. Several people left the class immediately, while I simply smiled and treated that statement as a direct challenge. We still keep in touch, and I'm quite proud of his admission that I am one of the few students who has ever given him a paper that made him utter the word "Wow."

I had a teacher like that in junior college (did some college classes during senior year of high school). He and I got along GREAT: we were both literary people in a town of people who didn't read much. He loved my papers (i got a perfect 100 on the paper I wrote about the lyrics of Shine On You Crazy Diamond), and when the main branch of the college sponsored a writing contest, he insisted I enter. I did. I won, with the first short story I ever wrote. He was so proud! I have now written 3 full-length novels--the first one that gets published, I'm dedicating to him. He died of cancer about 3 years ago, but I'll never forget him.

KhirasHY
10-18-2008, 07:33 AM
I had a teacher like that in junior college (did some college classes during senior year of high school). He and I got along GREAT: we were both literary people in a town of people who didn't read much. He loved my papers (i got a perfect 100 on the paper I wrote about the lyrics of Shine On You Crazy Diamond), and when the main branch of the college sponsored a writing contest, he insisted I enter. I did. I won, with the first short story I ever wrote. He was so proud! I have now written 3 full-length novels--the first one that gets published, I'm dedicating to him. He died of cancer about 3 years ago, but I'll never forget him.

Mention it here when one gets published ;) What genre?

Personally, I approach all writing with the David Eddings approach: "Write until you have a word count of about a million. Then burn it." I don't think I ever wrote so much as a letter without revising it five or six times, and while I get a bit lazy on forum posts (tee hee :angel:), I tend to be a bit OCD when it comes to real writing. This explains my interest in the classroom, since it absolutely infuriates me when I run into someone who, after the age of 10, still has problems with the "their, there, and they're" problem. Same goes for "to, two, and too" since mistakes like that tend to make me want to run towards the nearest living thing and kill it.

Evil Queen
10-18-2008, 01:46 PM
I want cool teachers like that! :cry:

Hopefully I'll have that when I go to college for Business. :)

PhotoChick
10-18-2008, 02:04 PM
I had a "friend" my freshman year. She was getting loans/grants to go to school. At the beginning of the semester we were in the same math class but I dropped it because I couldn't understand the teacher (bad teaching style for me). I guess she just stopped going to class. At the end of the semester, she came to me. She failed and she needed proof that she had been to class after X date so they wouldnt revoke her loans/grants.

BookstoreEscapee
10-18-2008, 05:31 PM
There was a guy in my college freshman class who had a .2XX GPA. Yes, that decimal is in the right place. He was not in my sophomore class.

Hyndis
10-18-2008, 05:49 PM
There was a guy in my college freshman class who had a .2XX GPA. Yes, that decimal is in the right place. He was not in my sophomore class.

He took five classes and got four F's and one D?

:eek:

RootedPhoenix
10-18-2008, 09:40 PM
He took five classes and got four F's and one D?

:eek:

So that's how he did it. Yikes. :eek:

Kalga
10-18-2008, 10:18 PM
Of course, more than half of that class also failed, since he was considered the nightmare of the English department. From what I hear, he's blacklisted by every sports team; they refuse to let their star players end up in his classes, since he demands a level of literary compentancy that most of them can't achieve...



First off. OP. Teach at my school.

Secondly: This teacher sounds awesome.

"You can't fail him! We'll lose the game without him!"

"He should have thought about that before he skipped learning how to read."

:angel:


I actually got into a big argument with someone over this.

:ot:

"How do you know so much?"
"I read books."

~~~

"Oh, now you think you're all superior to me because you read!?"
"When was the last time you finished a book of your own volition?"
"...?"
"When was the last time you read a book without someone telling you to?"
"...Um...Never?"
"Then yes. I think I'm just a tad over your intellectual level."

He then tried to argue how he read an audio book one time. (He's perfectly capible of reading actual books, and he did not try to say he listened to one. He tried to say he read one. READ. AN. AUDIOBOOK.)

:cry: Please, It's gotten to the point I have to talk to myself for intelligent conversation. :cry:

Skeksin
10-19-2008, 12:04 AM
Well I believe that most of us here on the boards have a reasonable level of intelligence, so we are out here, somewhere.
And you are communicating with us. Granted you aren't actually talking but any Voice over IP program can fix that if you are really going through that much withdrawal.

Tigress
10-19-2008, 12:45 AM
I actually got into a big argument with someone over this.

:ot:

"How do you know so much?"
"I read books."

~~~

"Oh, now you think you're all superior to me because you read!?"
"When was the last time you finished a book of your own volition?"
"...?"
"When was the last time you read a book without someone telling you to?"
"...Um...Never?"
"Then yes. I think I'm just a tad over your intellectual level."

I got this all the time during middle and high school. I'm always reading something for fun. Most of my classmates in the little hick town I lived in teased me over it, saying that I was only reading that Really Long Book because it made me "look smart". Or there was no way that I could have finished the reading assignment a week before it was due. Never mind that I read at a college level by the time I got to middle school.

At a couple of jobs I had, I faced a repeat of this song and dance. Look, dumbass, I don't tease you for watching soaps or Jackass on your lunch break. Don't tease me because I'm reading Pratchett (and laughing my head off) on mine.

BookstoreEscapee
10-19-2008, 01:19 AM
He took five classes and got four F's and one D?

:eek:

Sounds about right. I don't know what classes he was taking (or not, as the case may be). He was the roommate of a guy I was sorta friends with.

Cat
10-19-2008, 01:33 AM
Sounds like my awesome Chem teacher....I despised her the first half of Chem 1, it was a extremely difficult class, and she was a task master. Even so, I went to all the extra help she offered and met after class....'round mid-terms, I found out what she was doing. Weeding out the weak..not the ones who found difficulty with the material, but the ones who didn't show for class or extra help. After mid-terms, they were gone, and the class was extremely fun....still hard, but she let her guard down and had fun with the students she knew were there for the education.

Got in a fight with a roomie, she was insulting one of my meteorology profs for not making the class easier for non-sci majors. I pointed out to her that if he did so, he'd cheapen the class for the people who wanted to be there for more than the sci credit to graduate. :D

Irving Patrick Freleigh
10-19-2008, 02:16 AM
My second year in college, I had a guy in my biology class who asked me if I'd look over some of his work.

It was a hell of a fun class. We'd go on field trips for our labs, to places like a wind farm, a nuclear power plant, or just riding around the countryside in the school bus while the professor pointed out different land and soil formations to us. I'd BS with my classmates on the bus and have snacks and sodas and it was about the easiest A I ever got in college. Or we'd go out to the creek behind the building and test the water and look for critters or something. Then we would have to write an essay about what we learned or answer a bunch of questions (for the latter he'd want several complete sentences to answer each question thoroughly).

And here was my classmate turning in about one sentence for each question as his answer. Actually, I take that back. Sentences need a subject, a predicate, a noun and a verb, and many of his answers were missing one or more of those things.

Plus he never seemed to get the hang of when to use a period and when to use a comma.

Granted, this was just community college, but the sad thing is once I left there and moved on to a university, the quality of the writing from some of my classmates didn't get too much better.

HawaiianShirts
10-19-2008, 03:08 AM
Yeah, I still don't understand those people who don't do anything required by an instructor (of any kind) and complain about a bad grade. I've heard some argue that, since they are paying for their education, they should get whatever grade they want, regardless of their attendance or classwork. One even tried likening it to going to a restaurant: "When you order a steak, you tell the server how you want it cooked, and they have to cook it that way because you're the one paying for the steak. College should work the same way."

This explains my interest in the classroom, since it absolutely infuriates me when I run into someone who, after the age of 10, still has problems with the "their, there, and they're" problem. Same goes for "to, two, and too" since mistakes like that tend to make me want to run towards the nearest living thing and kill it.

It's the rampant abuse of the innocent apostrophe that bothers me the most. It's becoming almost physically painful to see someone pluralize something with an apostrophe (as in: "Closed Saturday's") or, worse, stab one into a verb (as in: "He say's that all the time.").

In that same vein, I was in a class with a would-be middle school English teacher who, throughout the entire semester, never once used your or you're correctly and once asked me if the word season should be capitalized.

KhirasHY
10-19-2008, 09:34 AM
In that same vein, I was in a class with a would-be middle school English teacher who, throughout the entire semester, never once used your or you're correctly and once asked me if the word season should be capitalized.

I think I'm going to cry...

Hyndis
10-19-2008, 10:33 PM
I got this all the time during middle and high school. I'm always reading something for fun. Most of my classmates in the little hick town I lived in teased me over it, saying that I was only reading that Really Long Book because it made me "look smart". Or there was no way that I could have finished the reading assignment a week before it was due. Never mind that I read at a college level by the time I got to middle school.

I actually had a teacher take books away from me in school. I was in the 3rd or 4th grade and reading at the college level, thus, reading lengthy novels in the 500-700 page range. I was getting through these various books during breaks or lunch, and one of the teachers there saw me reading a full blown novel and took it away from me because it was too complicated for me to understand or some such nonsense. :rolleyes:

LadyAndreca
10-19-2008, 11:16 PM
I actually had a teacher take books away from me in school. I was in the 3rd or 4th grade and reading at the college level, thus, reading lengthy novels in the 500-700 page range. I was getting through these various books during breaks or lunch, and one of the teachers there saw me reading a full blown novel and took it away from me because it was too complicated for me to understand or some such nonsense. :rolleyes:

When my family moved to Alabama, my parents met with my teachers before school started and specifically instructed them to take my books away if they caught me reading them. My teachers were absolutely horrified that any parent would suggest depriving a student with the desire to read and learn of their books, and scolded my parents for being so negligent with their daughter's education.

...until about halfway through my first year, when they FINALLY realized that if they didn't I wouldn't pay a lick of attention to their class if they didn't. (Well, unless they were teaching something I didn't know yet.)

My parents' response at the first teacher conference after that discovery was "We DID warn you..."

JoitheArtist
10-20-2008, 12:52 AM
The girl who graduated as salutatorian in my high school owned no books, and never read anything if not for school. :cry:

Even my Sunday School teachers would sometimes make fun of me for knowing unusual verses or daring to have a thought that wasn't in their lesson plans. :rolleyes: And most of them were teachers. I would pack huge books on trips, and answer questions hundreds of times about why I'd rather read than play some stupid game in the back of the bus.

Fortunately, my parents rock. We didn't have much money, but we were always buying used books and going to the library. And they never said anything was above my reading level--just assumed that if it was too hard I'd drop it on my own. We all had stacks of books piled around the house. :) Had a college reading level before age 11, and quickly learned how to entertain myself in classes because I almost always got done with the work before anyone else. Very rarely met anyone else who liked books and learning that much, but there was one funny incident in high school. I was sitting in a hallway at church one evening, happily engrossed in reading Atlas Shrugged. A guy I only barely knew passed by, looked at the cover of the book, pointed to me, and said, "Who is John Galt!" Then he just grinned and moved on. :)

One of my fav profs was a drawing/painting teacher, who took no nonsense from people. In fact, during basic drawing class freshman year, he got tired of people coming to class late, so at 5 minutes past the hour, he would simply lock the door and record the absences. :) Students learned to get to class on time.

BroSCFischer
10-20-2008, 05:46 AM
I got this all the time during middle and high school. I'm always reading something for fun. Most of my classmates in the little hick town I lived in teased me over it, saying that I was only reading that Really Long Book because it made me "look smart".



1. My Favorite Novel - The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas Translated by Robin Buss. (Yes, I have a preferred translation)

Length 1071 pages (not including Preface and Footnotes) Unabridged.

Times read 5 or 6

2. When in Middle School (and sometimes to this day) I was somewhat known for reading and walking. And I don't mean pacing back and forth while reading, I mean reading and entire 50 page book on the walk home from school, including crossing streets. I stopped at every street, looked up, looked both ways, then nose in book again.:D

Can anyone tell that I love to read?:rolleyes:



I just don't understand why people don't like reading. It never made any sense to me.

SC

Tigress
10-20-2008, 07:33 AM
2. When in Middle School (and sometimes to this day) I was somewhat known for reading and walking. And I don't mean pacing back and forth while reading, I mean reading and entire 50 page book on the walk home from school, including crossing streets. I stopped at every street, looked up, looked both ways, then nose in book again.:D

I did/do that a lot as well. :D

I just don't understand why people don't like reading. It never made any sense to me.

Because people don't like engaging their brains, probably.

JoitheArtist
10-20-2008, 08:17 AM
[Threadjack]
(Yes, I have a preferred translation)

*L* That's nothing, I have 2 preferred translations (Pinsky for emotion, Sayers for preserving the original rhyme scheme) of the Divine Comedy. :) And a favorite illustrator of it, as well (Dore.)

Oh, and another peeve: the number of times that people think the Inferno is the entirety of the Commedia, and don't believe me when I tell them about Purgatorio and Paradiso!!

*headdesk*

Sheesh.

*attempting to restrain further book-geekiness on her part*

BroSCFischer
10-20-2008, 08:30 AM
Oh, and another peeve: the number of times that people think the Inferno is the entirety of the Commedia, and don't believe me when I tell them about Purgatorio and Paradiso!!

*headdesk*

Sheesh.

*attempting to restrain further book-geekiness on her part*

I must confess that until I read the Count, I didn't know about the other two parts of the Divine Comedie.:o

As for further book geekiness, I objected to some statements made about characters in the Count in the preface of Robin Buss' translation, and wrote a two page objection to it. Just because I wanted to, not for any class.:wave::D

I freely confess to being weird. My trainer on the Night Audit looked at me weird for reading Mark Twain (see my sig.) for fun! You just can't beat the classics!

SC

Filmwench
10-20-2008, 09:00 AM
[Threadjack]
2. When in Middle School (and sometimes to this day) I was somewhat known for reading and walking. And I don't mean pacing back and forth while reading, I mean reading and entire 50 page book on the walk home from school, including crossing streets. I stopped at every street, looked up, looked both ways, then nose in book again.:D


*raises hand* I used to do that too - hell, the only reason I don't anymore is because I have to walk home at night, through a dodgy neighborhood.

I got in trouble for reading in class when I was 8 years old - I used to read with a book on my lap, sneakily reading it under the desk. My teacher that year was awesome, and figured that so long as I kept getting A's in class, it really didn't matter. But he had to step in when I started doing it by pushing my chair back and resting my forehead on the desk (I couldn't help it, I was reading Jurassic Park, it was engrossing at the time - even if I did have to skip all the exposition-y bits about genetics because I didn't really understand them...). After a couple of days of that he just hollered "[Filmwench], if you're going to read in class, at least make it less obvious!"

Jester
10-20-2008, 09:31 AM
I've been known to be a bit of a bookworm myself, though not so much this year. Hell, most people know that as soon as they walk in the front door into my library living room. And of course, like most of you, I got some grief and some confusion, and not just in school, either. When my friends and I would go to Mexico for a few days, in the morning, when everyone (including myself) would be recovering from their hangovers, I would be sitting there on the beach, reading.

Specifically, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich."

You know, LIGHT reading. :lol:

One of my favorite English professors in history would tell every class that, if we failed to produce a satisfactory paper, we would be revising it until he felt it met his criteria. Several people left the class immediately, while I simply smiled and treated that statement as a direct challenge.

Of course, more than half of that class also failed, since he was considered the nightmare of the English department.

Oh man, you reminded me of one of my favorite teachers of all time, Big Mike P. I had him for high school chemistry, which was a junior-year course in that high school. I was a sophomore, and decided to take both biology and chemistry my sophomore year. The school agreed to let me, since they knew I could pull it off. Amusingly, there were only three non-juniors in the class: one dopey senior, myself, and the girl who just happened to be My First Big Crush, also a sophomore.

Well, Big Mike P (who was about my size, but called himself Big Mike) was hilarious. He told us from day one a few things:

1. In his 20 years of teaching, NO ONE had ever gotten a perfect score on any of his tests. I took this as a direct challenge. I didn't ever do it myself, but I DID come closer than anyone else ever had, thank you very much.

2. Anything we wrote on our book covers for that chapter would be fair game for use on the test. This quickly showed itself to be of very little to no use, considering the time we had for each test, for all but one chapter test, which was purely memorization of formulas and such.

3. If we did not like our test scores, we could take it again with just the multiple choice answer sheet, but no questions, to see if we could do better. Many people tried this route, and some actually improved their scores.

I often had the highest score in the class, vaguely annoying the juniors since I was "ruining the curve." (He DID grade on a curve, but I wasn't really ruining it.) My First Big Crush usually had the high score when I did not, and virtually always had the second highest score when I did. I felt kind of bad about the times my scores were higher, since she worked her ass off and was very smart, and I really didn't work all that hard, especially in that class.

For those of you who are wondering how tough this guy was, I'll use the final exam to demonstrate. For the final, we were allowed to use any and all book covers from the whole year. One person shrunk down each chapter to a book cover, so he basically had the whole book at his disposal. It didn't help. And it didn't take long for it to be come apparent that it didn't help. People started bailing on their book covers quickly, and some gave up on the question sheet altogether and filled in the multiple choice answer sheet randomly, praying for a passing grade. The two highest scores in the class, not surprising to anyone, were myself and MFBC. She had the second highest score, with 33 out of 75 right. I had the highest, with 50 out of 75. Yeah, THAT tough.

But Big Mike P was FUN. Half of each class we would go over that day's lesson, and the other half we would just sit there and bullshit about whatever, often vaguely sexual stuff. He was hilarious, and he took no shit from anyone, and even the people who would normally give him shit learned early on that it just wouldn't work. And he seemed to have a thing for, or get a bit bothered by, a girl who sat just in front of me, whose name was Tracey Sinn....and trust me when I say her looks fit her name, and I understood why she seemed to fluster him somewhat. She certainly fit her pornstar name!

Nope, I'll never forget Big Mike P. And I can't recall the names of most of my high school teachers, especially since I went to THREE high schools. Big Mike P was tough, but he was such a character!

There was a guy in my college freshman class who had a .2XX GPA. Yes, that decimal is in the right place. He was not in my sophomore class.

Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Dorfman?
Flounder: Hello!
Dean Vernon Wormer: Zero point two... Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

"When you order a steak, you tell the server how you want it cooked, and they have to cook it that way because you're the one paying for the steak. College should work the same way."

And people wonder why the American educational system is in the crapper.......

KhirasHY
10-20-2008, 09:32 AM
When my family moved to Alabama, my parents met with my teachers before school started and specifically instructed them to take my books away if they caught me reading them. My teachers were absolutely horrified that any parent would suggest depriving a student with the desire to read and learn of their books, and scolded my parents for being so negligent with their daughter's education.

...until about halfway through my first year, when they FINALLY realized that if they didn't I wouldn't pay a lick of attention to their class if they didn't. (Well, unless they were teaching something I didn't know yet.)

My parents' response at the first teacher conference after that discovery was "We DID warn you..."

I actually had a teacher take books away from me in school. I was in the 3rd or 4th grade and reading at the college level, thus, reading lengthy novels in the 500-700 page range. I was getting through these various books during breaks or lunch, and one of the teachers there saw me reading a full blown novel and took it away from me because it was too complicated for me to understand or some such nonsense. :rolleyes:

Bless you...

I just don't understand why people don't like reading. It never made any sense to me.

There are some sad, sad people out there who just never had their imaginations nurtured, that's my theory anyway. To really enjoy a good book, you have to be able to live in that book's world...without an imagination, the words are nothing but symbols on a page. The world never exists for them, so they can never care enough to learn what lives there.

It saddens me. :(

eltf177
10-20-2008, 09:44 AM
[Threadjack]

1. My Favorite Novel - The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas Translated by Robin Buss. (Yes, I have a preferred translation)SC

Read and reread THE THREE MUSKETEERS but not COUNT.

My favorite novel? GONE WITH THE WIND by Margaret Mitchell (over 1,000 pages!). Hate the movie though.

LingualMonkey
10-20-2008, 12:04 PM
My father used to get on my case because I read science fiction when I should be spending more time reading the classics. One day, I realized that what he meant by "classic" was "book he liked from his generation." I also realized that I had read far more true classics than he had, and we stopped having that conversation. And while science fiction and good horror are still my first loves, I've recently (as in the last 3 months) re-read The Aeneid, The Odyssey, and The Illiad as well as Conrad's Lord Jim (which ROCKS).

I can't brag about favorite novel length, though. My favorite is High Rise by J.G. Ballard--it's about 150 pages.

My younger daughter is just on the cusp of learning to read (she's 5). My older one (she's 10) understands that at any given time, she's supposed to be somewhere in a book, and she reads a couple hundred pages every week.

A sad percentage of my students, when asked for their favorite book on the first day of class, respond with "I don't have a favorite book. I hate reading." However, I'm encouraged by the number who not only have a favorite book, they have a favorite book that's actually a great one. There's hope. Based on just this quarter, the reading public still outweighs the non-reading public.

Chromatix
10-20-2008, 02:28 PM
I took Computer Systems Engineering - which is bits of Computer Science, Electronic Engineering and Systems Engineering all rolled into one handy bundle.

In my first year, like all freshmen at this particular university, we were required to take three different courses - which would be treated as prerequisites for the actual degree course for the remaining two years. This had the dual effects of allowing people to try out subjects that they hadn't previously considered, and ensuring that complete no-hopes didn't get through to the main courses.

So for the first year, I took Computer Science, Electronic Engineering, and Physics. But I quickly discovered that the Physics course was geared strongly towards people who would be taking the real Physics major course, and went at a furious pace - so I switched, with full credit, to the Physics Studies course, which was at a gentler pace but still decent science - concentrating on qualitative effects while still introducing the most important quantitative formulae. There was a third Elements of Physics course for liberal-arts types, which essentially bypassed all pretensions of quantitativity and had a high topical-essay count instead, but I said NO to that one!

The Electronics and Physics courses were fine - the people there were usually genuinely interested and able to at least vaguely keep up. The "real winners" showed up in Computing - which at the time was riding on the dot-com boom. People took this course because it was seen as easy money. They were in for a double shock there.

There were, of course, a few geniuses there, of both genders. I was among them, though not necessarily at the very top of the heap. I made a name for myself by going above and beyond the call of duty, and also by managing to network my computers (of which I had an increasingly impressive number, bought with not-beer money) well beyond the campus network rules.

Then there were a decent number of competent students. Most of them had at least tried a little programming before, so the concepts involved in Java were not totally alien. These people I could help by pointing out where their mistakes were, and sometimes why.

Then there were the people who simply hadn't considered that a computer could be programmable before. Who thought that being okay with Micro$oft Office was sufficient experience for a Computer Science course. A few weeks in, I leaned over the shoulder of a girl who already had half a dozen people trying to work out why her Java program wasn't compiling... to discover that she had paid absolutely no attention to the order of the statements. Most of the right statements were there, but there were declarations after use, computations performed in the wrong order, and probably inputs performed after outputs. As soon as I pointed out this fundamental flaw in thinking, everyone else realised what to do to continue fixing the problem.

I don't remember whether that girl finished the course or went on to the full course. There were just too many people to keep track of.

At the end of the first year we were assigned a group project for Computing. There were four people in my group, and I quickly determined that there were three people capable of programming, and conveniently there were three major modules of the program to be written. The fourth guy admitted he wasn't any good at programming, so I had him do testing and documentation instead. This was fine - it was just the first-year course, and I was willing to cut him some slack for putting some effort in and admitting his limitations.

I would do the code which glued everything together - this also allowed me to define the interfaces to the other parts. The second guy was assigned to do the database backend. This he did reasonably well - I found some problems but he was able to fix them. The third guy was assigned to do, essentially, the GUI - and we didn't hear a peep out of him for nearly a month. With deadlines approaching and all the other work we could usefully do done, I wrote the GUI myself.

By the time the third guy submitted his code, I - with some help from #2 - had extended the program to include several extra features (which was encouraged for this competitive project). But #3's code encompassed only the bare minimum features. Worse, it was buggy and didn't even compile. To save the project, I had to reject his contribution, and note that in the project report (which I also had to write, as the de-facto leader).

There was yet another complication: the official workstations had been upgraded to a beta version of the Java runtime. Which was spectacularly buggy in itself. About half the teams managed, with a lot of effort, to work around the bugs. I bypassed it by not using the official workstations to develop or demonstrate our work - instead, two PowerBooks and a 486 running Linux.

The 486 was predictably dog-slow, but sufficed for testing, while the PowerBooks were very fast (PowerPC models, and with one of the first JIT VMs) but trickier to get Java working on. One of the lab assistants said I should win just for making Java work on a Mac! I also helped some other teams by rescuing them from the buggy workstations and demonstrating their work on the PowerBooks.

In the event, my team didn't win. But we did get second place through sheer dint of effort - and the first-place project was noticeably better than ours. But the #3 guy had really held us back by not putting in the effort we expected of him, despite frequent reminders of the important parts of the schedule. Apparently, his mark was indeed reduced on the basis of my report.

The real winner I didn't meet until much later - in the third-year course. Remembering that we had been working with Java literally since Day One, and by then we'd studied many fundamental algorithms in the classroom... I was paired in the lab to study an extremely simple substitution cipher. Which we were supposed to implement. Being experienced, I just went ahead and wrote the code - just a half-dozen lines or so of simple C++ code.

And then I turned to my partner and said something like: "Since we're supposed to be working on this together, do you at least understand what I just wrote?"

He didn't. :confused:

"What about these three lines here? They actually do the substitution. Can you see how they work?"

Nope. :(

"Are you telling me that after two and a half years of supposedly using Java, you can't read this simple for-loop, which would make perfect sense in that language?"

Essentially, yes.

:eek:

I don't know whether he got a good grade either. I hope he didn't.

JoitheArtist
10-20-2008, 03:37 PM
A sad percentage of my students, when asked for their favorite book on the first day of class, respond with "I don't have a favorite book. I hate reading."

*L* That reminds me of another story from that Freshman Composition class with my awesome prof from junior college. This class was a combo literature/composition class--we'd read stories, poems, etc., discuss them in class, and write about them. Naturally, I LOVED this class, and would often stay in the classroom during the 15 minute break to chat with the prof about the reading. Anyhow, when we got to the section on poetry, he was trying to demonstrate that it's very difficult to give a succinct description of what poetry is. He handed out a copy of Jabberwocky to demonstrate that even nonsense can be poetry. He jokingly asked if anyone volunteered to read it in front of the class, and was shocked when I instantly agreed; he was even more surprised when I did it without stumbling over any of it, and keeping a consistent rythym.

He later went around the class and asked people what kind of poetry they liked. Most people muttered something about some poem or other, but one guy actually said, "I don't like poetry, but I guess anything that rhymes is ok." :eek: Cool thing, though, he later fell in love with the works of William Blake, and volunteered to read The Tyger in front of the class. So that was cool.

(Fav poet apart from Dante: T.S. Eliot.)

otakuneko
10-20-2008, 05:13 PM
No wonder English on the internet is in such a sad, sad state. Sure, I loves me some lolcat kitten-pidgin (im in ur tubez, blokin ur internetz!), but the crap I see online would bring any teacher to tears.


As an aside, I'd be fine with the OP as an English teacher. Just so long as he doesn't ask me to write any poetry. I can't be poetic to save my life. I think I've failed miserably every time a teacher's asked me to. Limerick for high school sophomore English? Made of fail. Sonnet for senior English? Uber fail. Miscellaneous poem for college Comp II? Such epic fail I may as well have not turned it in at all.

Short stories were another matter entirely. All my high school english teachers loved my work. Understandable, I suppose, since I spent a good bit of my sophomore and junior years writing a short story based on some fantasy role-playing I'd done. Back then, I actually wanted to be a writer. I'm not so sure I could produce something of that quality now though. I find it hard to come up with anything, as if I have a persistent case of writer's block, or a sizable chunk of my imagination just up and died on me some years ago.

Jester
10-20-2008, 05:40 PM
I can't be poetic to save my life.

Ah, there is a poet in everyone. Hell, I can use your very words to show you the poet in you.....

Teacher, nay! Not poetry!
Miserable failure looms.
Limericks, sonnets, random poems--
My past failure at such is epic.
It would have been better for all
had I never turned such garbage in.
Now, ask me for a short story,
and such glorious work you will see.
Back in the day, I could spin
such beautiful words of fantasy
and role-playing
the likes of which you've never seen!
Alas, that is past.
Today is a different animal.
My mind is blocked from writing--
Try as I might, the pen is still.
I dare say to you,
my friends,
that my once-vaunted imagination
is now as cold and still
as Jester's sex life.
Move on!


See, it's all in how you take the same thoughts and re-arrange them. We'll make a poet of you yet, my friend! :lol:

Alpha Strike
10-20-2008, 06:02 PM
I can understand where the OP is coming from since I've had similar experiences - at least from the student side of things.

The first college I ever attended was only possible with a lot of scholarship money - scholarships that I wasn't willing to work hard enough to keep. :( (Yes, I was that lazy student at the expensive, small liberal arts school.)

I ended up having to leave that school and a few years later entered the local community college, as a precursor to finishing up at the 4 year institution. Anyway, most of my credits - both college and high school - transferred over, but for some unremembered reason my English coursework didn't.

Ultimately I had to take English Comp 1 and 2 - the basic level English courses that probably should have been titled "How to write a complete sentence in your own language." Most of the classes consisted of small groups of us sitting around and providing peer-review of papers we had written for as part of class assignments; the problem was that while I would really try and provide good feed-back on the papers I read, most of my classmates preferred chit-chatting with each other or seem intimidated by the prospect of "advising" others. While a few of us took the class seriously and put in the work, most of it appeared wasted on my classmates.

I felt bad for our teacher, since most of the students were the stereotypical community college types that were uninterested in learning and had probably been pushed into school by their parents. Those few of us who showed an interest in learning really didn't benefit much by way of class activities. [On the bright side those were among the easiest A's I have ever received.]

Incidentally, I've found this thread fun to follow because it's given me a number of new books to check-out. "High Rise" and "Atlas Shrugged" look particularly interesting.

JoitheArtist
10-20-2008, 06:29 PM
Ah, there is a poet in everyone.
See, it's all in how you take the same thoughts and re-arrange them. We'll make a poet of you yet, my friend! :lol:

*L* I wanna play!

Jester makes poetry from post
In an effort to show that poetry is in all
But T.S. Eliot still kicks Jester's butt at
Writing poetry.

Joi can write "poetry" too
But has learned from long experience
Never to share the product of her attempts at
Writing poetry.

Just to be a brat, I write
"Poetry" from work desk. Has actual scheme
And cool repetitions. But I still suck at
Writing poetry.


Ok, I will stop now. I am in a bratty mood this week, apparently. :devil:

Chromatix
10-20-2008, 07:03 PM
The bizarre thing is that I only have a C grade at GCSE English (what you usually take at age 16 in England). I was excellent at writing and taking exams, but due to a very bad teacher I was marked F for in-class participation.

fish3k1
10-20-2008, 07:19 PM
2. When in Middle School (and sometimes to this day) I was somewhat known for reading and walking. And I don't mean pacing back and forth while reading, I mean reading and entire 50 page book on the walk home from school, including crossing streets. I stopped at every street, looked up, looked both ways, then nose in book again.:D

I do this too! People always ask me how, all I can say is... I just do. It's not hard. Front brain deals with book, rest of brain deals with all other input (including space around book in peripheral vision and audio).

Glad to know I'm not alone :)

Geek King
10-20-2008, 07:26 PM
My parents' response at the first teacher conference after that discovery was "We DID warn you..."

And here I didn't know I had a twin all whole time. :D

My first P/T conference went a little opposite.

T: First Grade Teacher
P My Parents*

T: ...otherwise, there's just one problem I have with Geek King. I can't keep him away from the book shelf when he finishes an assignment early. He just won't stay in his seat and sit quietly.
P: Well, is he finishing the assignments?
T: Well, yes.
P: And are they done correctly.
T: Yes, very well usually.
P: Does he put the book down when class continues?
T: Normally, yes.
P: So where's the problem? If he's quiet and not bothering the others, why not let him read?

No problems after that in that class. I'm told it was even in my permanant record all the way through high school. :lol:

I did have problems later though. Not just with my classmates, but with teachers too. There are some teachers who are just not equiped to handle bright students. I (and a small group of other smartasses students) spent a fair amount of time in trouble with some teachers because we'd get bored after finishing an assignment that was to last the entire class hour in the first fifteen minutes.

*My parents learned very early that the way to keep me out of trouble was to put a book in my hands. By this time, I was already reading things about D-Day and Iwo Jima. I didn't understand everything, but my father was very good about explaining things I didn't understand when I asked him. He probably got tired of being my personal dictionary for those years, though. :lol:

JoitheArtist
10-20-2008, 07:34 PM
*My parents learned very early that the way to keep me out of trouble was to put a book in my hands.

Same here! When my mom needed to take me with her to a musical ensemble rehearsal when I was 2, she just stuck me in a playpen with a book. I was quiet the whole hour. None of her friends could believe that a kid that young could be that into a book.

It was just a taste of what was to come. :)

Jester
10-20-2008, 07:46 PM
I (and a small group of other smartasses students) spent a fair amount of time in trouble with some teachers because we'd get bored after finishing an assignment that was to last the entire class hour in the first fifteen minutes.

I have been known to finish assignments early too, but one time in particular got me a small bit of notoriety with both the teacher and other student for a few days.

We were doing something with math in (I think) fourth grade. As I have said many times, I am very good at math. Anyways, the teacher wanted was just tossing something out there, expecting to keep the class busy for a few minutes.

TEACHER: "Class, out of 25 of you, 16 of you got the last problem right. What is the percentage that got it right?"
JESTER, immediately blurting out: "Sixty four percent."

The other kids started laughing, until they saw the look on the teacher's face that told them, damn, Jester got it on the nose!

I know, I know, that's basic math, but for a fourth grader, that was pretty damn good!

(The teacher stopped trying to challenge me with math after that. After all, I had already done fifth grade math when I was only in first grade!)

LadyAndreca
10-20-2008, 07:53 PM
My parents always read to me when I was little, and my dad would point out the words as he read them. They never realized they'd taught me to read until they bought me a new book and I insisted on reading it to them all by myself. :lol: Somewhere around there's a picture of me as a toddler, hair up in pigtails, sitting next to my parents' bookcase reading a book that looks as big as me...

I did the reading in class thing all the way into high school. I was a tricky little thing...always reading library books so the teachers couldn't keep them until the end of the year because they had to be turned in. In high school one of my teachers finally outsmarted me and returned the book to the school library herself as "I found this and didn't want the student to get late fees".

That's when I started writing my own stories in class. Writing stories, taking notes, how can you tell the difference? I'm putting words in a notebook... :lol:

protege
10-20-2008, 07:56 PM
I've talked about this before....but there's always been plenty of reading material at my disposal. Not surprising, since I'd taught *myself* to read. How I did it, I don't remember. What I do remember, is while the other students were reading about Dick and Jane, I was reading about sports cars. (Does that really surprise anyone :p) I might not have known what was being discussed, but after poring over a book featuring "cutaway" photos of various cars, the blank spots soon got filled. 30 years on, I still can't get enough. I have most of the MG books, plus many dealing with whatever project I'm working on. As if that wasn't enough, there are literally several thousand magazines in my office, bedroom, living room, etc. I'm sure the sight of my research materials drives most people nuts, but oh well. I get plenty of use out of them.

For example, before the MG came home, I did plenty of reading on it. I knew a fair bit already about what could go wrong...from taking the car apart. However, reading all those books, plus the magazine articles, only increased my knowledge. My reasoning being...

1. If I know what goes wrong, I can fix it, and
2. If I can fix it, I can probably *improve* on it.

Even with the car (supposedly :p) nearing completion, there's always something that I didn't know before.

Irving Patrick Freleigh
10-20-2008, 08:00 PM
In one of my community college history classes, my teacher, while discussing the results of a recent test, said "How many of you pisscutters couldn't figure out which state was named for William Penn?!"

That made me a sad panda. Evidently there were quite a few students who flubbed that particular question.

Lyger
10-20-2008, 08:19 PM
It sounds like if this board could write the next great American novel if we put our minds to it. I'm a self-confessed writer myself, and I owe it to reading a lot in grade class. I wasn't the master of the language in grade school, but I did awesome in junior high school, better than some high school seniors. That made me feel good when I was a kid, but made me weep when I realized what that meant for some high school seniors.

I had a roommate in college that insisted in trying to have multiple girls on each arm as he played Starcraft all day. And he was good at that. The one thing he was not good at was keeping his mouth shut... he didn't do too well in the academic world, last I heard. The teachers didn't exactly appreciate being interrupted by cell phone calls and his arguing with the professors in his classes. Just one more reassurance, to me, that the people with the biggest egos and the smallest brains are always the most sure that they're superior.

JoitheArtist
10-20-2008, 08:24 PM
It sounds like if this board could write the next great American novel if we put our minds to it.

*has written 3 novels so far and going for a 4th* Actually, I think it sounds like we should kidnap LingualMonkey, get him to teach a class for us, and show him the joy of teaching a class full of those who actually want to learn. :)

LadyAndreca
10-20-2008, 08:26 PM
Sure, why not? I need two English and two Lit classes to graduate. :D

Moggie
10-20-2008, 08:28 PM
It cheers me so to hear that other folks have had trouble with teachers from reading too much.

When I was starting High School we'd been assigned to read a section of The Odyssey. Since I’d read the whole thing back in 3rd grade, I wasn’t actually taking notes on the out-loud read along the teacher had us doing. I was happily pouring over Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell’s “The Mote in God’s Eye”. When the teacher confiscated that I reached under the desk, pulled out the dictionary and started reading that. She was so frustrated with me that she grabbed the dictionary off my desk and pitched it across the room. It fell out the open window totally by accident and I got to go pick it up and explain myself to the principal. My parents’ only comment was “We told you not to put her in regular English.”

JoitheArtist
10-20-2008, 08:38 PM
My parents’ only comment was “We told you not to put her in regular English.”

Gotta LOVE supportive parents. :) When I was about 11, I was obsessed with Greek mythology. Several people in my church expressed concern to my parents. My mom's answer was essentially, "They're classics, you idiot, let her read what she wants."

*grin* My dad was a librarian, and at least once a week got a call from me saying, "Hey dad, I need this book, can you bring it home at lunch?" You wouldn't believe the fines we racked up....Oh, and as the librarian's family, we always helped set up the Friends of the Library used book sale....which meant scouting out all the good books before anyone else arrived. :)

This, essentially, is my family: http://wondermark.com/442/

My poor younger sister, who only read about half of what I did, always thought she was stupid. Till she went to college. And encountered people who thought "facade" was pronounced "FAY-cade", and had about a quarter of her vocabulary. :)

Moggie
10-20-2008, 08:45 PM
This, essentially, is my family: http://wondermark.com/442/



That's LOVE right there!

AnaKhouri
10-21-2008, 03:46 AM
What a great cartoon!

When we moved my husband counted our books: 1,172. It's not like we're ever going to read most of them again, but I feel very anxious at the thought of getting rid of them. I wonder if it's some sort of hoarding complex?

Though, truthfully, I am eager to have a child so someday they will come crying to me, holding my battered copy of "Black Beauty", "Mommy, Ginger died!"

KhirasHY
10-21-2008, 06:46 AM
In one of my community college history classes, my teacher, while discussing the results of a recent test, said "How many of you pisscutters couldn't figure out which state was named for William Penn?!"

That made me a sad panda. Evidently there were quite a few students who flubbed that particular question.

Heh, I once had a teacher for Western History (basically the early western movement in the US through about 1875) who was, for lack of a better term the "angry old man" of the department. In the first week, he called everyone an idiot until they prove otherwise, and told us that anyone who put stock in information from any Kevin Costner film in history needed to be drawn and quartered.

One of the most amusing series of classes I've ever had was when he made us watch Dances With Wolves, and stopped quite often to point out exactly where the factual information was the opposite of its portrayal.

It's amazing how badly 1 shitty film distorted that period of history...

As for books, I don't have quite a library of 1,172 just yet, but it's steadily growing. I don't have an exact could, but I'd say my current list would be around 350 or so, mostly fiction with the occasional textbook, biography, nonfiction history book, etc. mixed in. I'm running out of space...need a bigger house for my books! :cry:

Jester
10-21-2008, 07:28 AM
In the first week, he ... told us that anyone who put stock in information from any Kevin Costner film in history needed to be drawn and quartered.

A good example of this is comparing "Tombstone" to Costner's "Wyatt Earp." Forgetting the aesthetics of the two movies, virtually all experts agree that "Tombstone" was, for the most part, far more factually and historically correct than "Wyatt Earp," especially in regards to the costuming.

BroSCFischer
10-21-2008, 09:03 AM
In one of my community college history classes, my teacher, while discussing the results of a recent test, said "How many of you pisscutters couldn't figure out which state was named for William Penn?!"

That made me a sad panda. Evidently there were quite a few students who flubbed that particular question.

That reminds me of a situation that occurred in my 11 th grade American History class. The regular teacher was out, and he had his student teacher showing us a video on Jefferson (the president). I was the only one even trying to pay attention (I like American History), so the student teacher gave us a 5 question pop quiz on Thomas Jefferson basics. And I mean basics. Like which president was Jefferson? and What was the name of his estate?

I was the ONLY person in the class to get a hundred, but what worried me more was the number of students that put down 2nd, 4th or 5th for the first question. :eek: I mean c'mon, it goes like this:

Washington
Adams
Jefferson
Madison
Monroe
Adams
Jackson
Van Buren

:D

SC

Gurndigarn
10-21-2008, 10:56 AM
and told us that anyone who put stock in information from any Kevin Costner film in history needed to be drawn and quartered.

One of the most amusing series of classes I've ever had was when he made us watch Dances With Wolves, and stopped quite often to point out exactly where the factual information was the opposite of its portrayal.

It's amazing how badly 1 shitty film distorted that period of history...

Less amazing when you take the one fact that I bolded into consideration.

Dorath
10-21-2008, 11:24 AM
I got caught reading the 1st edition dieties and demigods in class once. Almost didn't get it back, she started reading it after assigning homework.

JoitheArtist
10-21-2008, 03:23 PM
When we moved my husband counted our books: 1,172.

Wow! I estimate that i only own about 500...but then, I'm only 26, and single, so that's not too bad. :D And I reread a ton of mine--my mother has given up on getting me to ever get rid of any of my beloved books.

Kal
10-21-2008, 06:59 PM
I'm probably looking at around 600 books myself, well maybe 700, I tend to guess rather than count. I also write a little, although only with a lulu published short book (it's a step up from vanity publishing only because I didn't have to pay to have it published), a couple of unfinished novels and a chunk of text-based online game to my name. One day (the plaintive proclamation of the perennial procrastinator) I might even finish the novels. :P

taxguykarl
10-21-2008, 07:55 PM
I can't recall counting the books my folks had. I do remember finding three-count 'em 3-sets of Shakespear's complete works.

My mom is a teacher (now retired) and she reminiced how some teens were genuinely surprised and shocked that they we being held responsible for their actions.

In my days at the university, I noticed that every department seemed to have a Kingsfield (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070509/) wannabe; who deviates from the unwritten procedure of giving ground rules and a short lecture on the first day. Heaven help you if you did not read the chapter. In case you're wondering, I never even bought the books until after I saw the class syllabus. I've been burned by instructors who require the book but assign so little that photocopying that small section would have been cost-effective.

The one that still sticks out in my mind, gave his initials as a mneumonic. He noticibly mellowed after the deadline to drop without kissing the dean's ass (if you want a W instead of an F).

Sheldonrs
10-21-2008, 08:15 PM
I've been reading 2-3 books per week for most of my life, including every text book from cover to cover I ever had. But I HATED school until college. I remember in 9th grade, I hated the school and the fellow "students" so much, I skipped school 109 out of 180 days. It's still a record in my town because they changed the rules after I left so now the limit is 3 unexcused days out only.
But I got a HUGE kick out of it when the teacher went from student to student at the end of the year to tell us, out loud, if we were graduating or not. I got a B average that year, even with only showing up for 71 days. I made sure to be there on test days. All the kids that made my life hell at that school flunked even though they had gone to class most of the time. They were PISSED at me for that. :)

Gabrielle Proctor
10-21-2008, 10:32 PM
I actually had a teacher take books away from me in school. I was in the 3rd or 4th grade and reading at the college level, thus, reading lengthy novels in the 500-700 page range. I was getting through these various books during breaks or lunch, and one of the teachers there saw me reading a full blown novel and took it away from me because it was too complicated for me to understand or some such nonsense. :rolleyes:

I actualy had that same problem. Except they took books from me because I would get so into them that everything around me would "disappear". I don't know how else to describe it. The only thing that existed while I was reading was the book itself.

Anyway, it's cool to meet someone who had a college reading level at that age too. Although, my biggest problem was math. I had a horrible math level! I was practically learning impaired when it came to math!

Bliss
10-21-2008, 11:03 PM
pluralize something with an apostrophe (as in: "Closed Saturday's") or, worse, stab one into a verb (as in: "He say's that all the time.")

:jawdrop: :jawdrop:

You are joking, right? I know you're joking... you have to be.....

I mean, english is not my mother tongue, and still I find easy mistakes, such as not knowing the diference between their and they're to be very irritating..... this... I've not seen this yet other than you mentioning it right now... if I had I might've shot myself....

Bliss
10-21-2008, 11:08 PM
1. If I know what goes wrong, I can fix it, and
2. If I can fix it, I can probably *improve* on it.

Thus, if you know what goes wrong, you can probably improve it. Hypothetical Syllogism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_syllogism) :D I'm trying to re acquaintance myself with my favorite college class ever. Logics. I love logic and boolean algebra

Mamadrae
10-22-2008, 12:15 AM
That reminds me of a situation that occurred in my 11 th grade American History class. The regular teacher was out, and he had his student teacher showing us a video on Jefferson (the president). I was the only one even trying to pay attention (I like American History), so the student teacher gave us a 5 question pop quiz on Thomas Jefferson basics. And I mean basics. Like which president was Jefferson? and What was the name of his estate?

I was the ONLY person in the class to get a hundred, but what worried me more was the number of students that put down 2nd, 4th or 5th for the first question. :eek: I mean c'mon, it goes like this:

Washington
Adams
Jefferson
Madison
Monroe
Adams
Jackson
Van Buren

:D

SC

Reminds me of my junior year in high school. My english teacher was retiring and just had a brain fart converting greek god names to roman. I was drawing something since I knew my greek mythology backwards and forwards.

T: Zeus was known as...ummm...*struggles*
Me: *not looking up from doddle* Jupiter.
T: *gives me a look* Hephaestus?
Me:*cocky grin* Vulcan.
T: Hera?
Me: Juno.
T: Demeter?
Me: Cer.....Cer.....rena? Wait that's not it! Dammit!
T: HAHA! Respect your elders Mamadrae.
Me: :cry: Yes sir....

corporateslave
10-22-2008, 02:46 AM
OP, you sound like a great teacher. :respect:
the first one that gets published, I'm dedicating to him. He died of cancer about 3 years ago, but I'll never forget him.That's so sad.:( But it's still good that you go to have him as a teacher.

It's the rampant abuse of the innocent apostrophe that bothers me the most. It's becoming almost physically painful to see someone pluralize something with an apostrophe (as in: "Closed Saturday's") or, worse, stab one into a verb (as in: "He say's that all the time.").Oh, gah.. I hate that so f*&#(%ing much. I see it daily. I die a little inside every time.

protege
10-22-2008, 05:20 AM
Thus, if you know what goes wrong, you can probably improve it. Hypothetical Syllogism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_syllogism) :D

It's not just with the car though--it applies to my model locomotives as well. Athearn diesels are a particular favorite. They aren't bad engines at all, a bit noisy perhaps. Most of that goes away after some fine-tuning. Meaning, I take the entire thing apart :eek: and go over it. Once you've done it a few times, it's not that hard :p

First step, is to check the truck gears. There's usually some excess plastic on the teeth, which causes noise. Some careful filing is usually enough to remove it. Then, I put some abrasive gel on the gears. After they're run a few minutes, they're "broken in." With that done, I can then mess with the electrics--mainly that stupid metal contact strip. In a perfect world, it's great. However, it usually gets bent a bit during assembly, and no longer conducts like it's supposed to. Solution? Yank that off, and replace it with wire--one wire from the front truck to the headlight; another from the headlight to the top motor contact, and one wire from the rear truck to the top of the motor. Next step is to remove the motor brushes, and trim their springs. Clean the wheels, put it all back together, and it runs better than new :p

Seriously though, if I wouldn't have read up on those engines, they'd still be running rough, or not at all!

JoitheArtist
10-22-2008, 06:08 AM
Me: Cer.....Cer.....rena? Wait that's not it! Dammit!
T: HAHA! Respect your elders Mamadrae.
Me: :cry: Yes sir....

Ceres. *L* A fellow mythology geek here. :)

As to the extra apostrophes, etc....you would not believe how often I see that in "professional" writing, from my bosses, etc. As a matter of fact, I'm shocked at how few "educated" people can properly construct a sentence. You must, at minimum, have a subject and a verb. A string of nouns randomly interspersed with adverbs will not do. *weeps for the future of humanity*

KhirasHY
10-22-2008, 06:20 AM
:jawdrop: :jawdrop:

You are joking, right? I know you're joking... you have to be.....

I mean, english is not my mother tongue, and still I find easy mistakes, such as not knowing the diference between their and they're to be very irritating..... this... I've not seen this yet other than you mentioning it right now... if I had I might've shot myself....

Bliss, in response, allow me to copy and paste the e-mail which I had waiting for me when I came in tonight:

"I had hears about the meeting's but I do not think everyone should be their, some of us have thing's to do"

:cry:

JoitheArtist
10-22-2008, 06:49 AM
I would get so into them that everything around me would "disappear". I don't know how else to describe it. The only thing that existed while I was reading was the book itself.

I still do that. :) One time I was reading a book in Borders, and it wasn't until I hit the end of a chapter that I realized a friend of mine was standing in front of me and had been calling my name for a few minutes. :o

BTW, your avatar is ADORABLE! *L* cute lil mischievous kitty...

Gurndigarn
10-22-2008, 10:53 AM
I'm shocked at how few "educated" people can properly construct a sentence. You must, at minimum, have a subject and a verb.

Riiiiiiight.

Oh, c'mon, you knew it was coming.

Belari
10-22-2008, 12:12 PM
I actualy had that same problem. Except they took books from me because I would get so into them that everything around me would "disappear". I don't know how else to describe it. The only thing that existed while I was reading was the book itself.

Anyway, it's cool to meet someone who had a college reading level at that age too. Although, my biggest problem was math. I had a horrible math level! I was practically learning impaired when it came to math!

I had the same problem too. My parents had to ban books at the dinner table even. And I acquired more than a few bruises from walking and reading. I think my parents seriously feared for my social life :)

iradney
10-22-2008, 01:49 PM
I apparently taught myself how to speed read. It was very annoying in elementary school. Once a week, we had 2 reading periods. No credits, no points, just reading. I was reading at highschool level (or above) by then, so those stupid little books with the large print took me no time to read. The teacher didn't believe me, and would pick books for me to read that he had already read, and then I would have to tell him what happened *much eye rolling*

I don't have a large library, thanks to all my moves (13 times in 10 years! :cry: ) but if I were to add up all the books I've ever read, it would probably be close to 10, 000. If I include internet essays and ebooks, probably close to 15, 000.

*sigh* I need to find a library. I buy a new book, and within hours I'm finished. It took me about 4.5 hours to read the last Harry Potter book... :(

Mamadrae
10-22-2008, 02:33 PM
I apparently taught myself how to speed read. It was very annoying in elementary school. Once a week, we had 2 reading periods. No credits, no points, just reading. I was reading at highschool level (or above) by then, so those stupid little books with the large print took me no time to read. The teacher didn't believe me, and would pick books for me to read that he had already read, and then I would have to tell him what happened *much eye rolling*

I don't have a large library, thanks to all my moves (13 times in 10 years! :cry: ) but if I were to add up all the books I've ever read, it would probably be close to 10, 000. If I include internet essays and ebooks, probably close to 15, 000.

*sigh* I need to find a library. I buy a new book, and within hours I'm finished. It took me about 4.5 hours to read the last Harry Potter book... :(

God your like my brother. He reads over 100 pages an hour I think. All I know is 4 hours at the relatives for Thanksgiving and he picked up and finished some books of theirs with over 1000 pages. I mean I can read the book and all, but not in a 4 hour time span and actually retain everything.

Racket_Man
10-22-2008, 03:07 PM
I actualy had that same problem. Except they took books from me because I would get so into them that everything around me would "disappear". I don't know how else to describe it. The only thing that existed while I was reading was the book itself.


my teachers, my parents, my ExWife and my daughter quickly learned that when I was reading a book you could have a direct impact nuclear explosion go off right next to me and I would not notice. I used to to take the subway to work and read books during the trip. darned near missed my stop a few times too. after a while the local library ran out of books for me to read.

my mind and imagination took over visualizing the characters and surroundings. I esp loved science fiction most likely because they challanged me to "create" all of the backgound visualization. books like the Niven's Ringworld series or Asimov's Foundation/Robot Series gave me the most pleasent experience.

to give you some idea of my love of scifi, I had 4 or 5 branches of the local library system I went to in my quest for new material. every branch within reach of a bike trip was fair game during the summer

some of the books/stories that were made into movies just did not live up to my "creation"


I apparently taught myself how to speed read. It was very annoying in elementary school. Once a week, we had 2 reading periods. No credits, no points, just reading. I was reading at highschool level (or above) by then, so those stupid little books with the large print took me no time to read. The teacher didn't believe me, and would pick books for me to read that he had already read, and then I would have to tell him what happened *much eye rolling*

I don't have a large library, thanks to all my moves (13 times in 10 years! :cry: ) but if I were to add up all the books I've ever read, it would probably be close to 10, 000. If I include internet essays and ebooks, probably close to 15, 000.

*sigh* I need to find a library. I buy a new book, and within hours I'm finished. It took me about 4.5 hours to read the last Harry Potter book... :(

I have gotten out of the habit of reading in the last 10 years or so I lost my ability to speed read. darn it took me about 8 hours for the last HP book

Naaman
10-22-2008, 03:37 PM
I haven't dared count how many books me and my GF have, here's the room where we store most of them though;

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/Mongrel01/stuff%202/BR3.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/Mongrel01/stuff%202/BR2.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/Mongrel01/stuff%202/BR1.jpg

And loads in other bookcases and stacks around the house :D

bunnyboy
10-22-2008, 05:48 PM
-SNIP-(as in: "Closed Saturday's")-Snip

There's only one condition that it's quite alright to use an apostrophy with a day of the week in my book.... when you review or do anything involving G.K. Chesterton's The Man who was Thursday...otherwise, go back to school.

In that same vein, I was in a class with a would-be middle school English teacher who, throughout the entire semester, never once used your or you're correctly and once asked me if the word season should be capitalized.

Yes it should..... if at the beginning of a sentence, and I guss he's lucky, most folks I know now would do UR....and is it bad of me that I always say, what about the ancient capital of Sumeria when I see it typed?

As an addition, I'm trying to get back on track to my AAS, then my Masters in English, and Bachelors in Education....and be the hard ass English teacher who is blacklisted by athletics departments. ;)

Oh, and my favorite teacher in High School, the entire English department (NONE of them took any crap from coaches, especially the main US History one who was the (American) Football/Wrestling coach... yeah, Academics used to be important there....now yer better off getting a GED from the alternative school, and going to a community college.


And on my reading lists right now, The Sailor on the Seas of Fate (Michael Moorcock), The Man who was Thursday (G.K. Chesterton), and soon to be adding The King in Yellow (Robert W. Chambers).

and I loved the looks I got for reading The Divine Comedy for a report in Freshman English in high school.

JoitheArtist
10-22-2008, 06:34 PM
is it bad of me that I always say, what about the ancient capital of Sumeria when I see it typed?

And on my reading lists right now, The Man who was Thursday (G.K. Chesterton)

You are my kind of book geek! *loves Man Who Was Thursday, but not as much as Manalive*

Irving Patrick Freleigh
10-22-2008, 06:56 PM
I'm sorry to say, I don't read as much as I used to, and that may be because in high school and college I ended up in a lot of classes where you had to read stories and then write interpretation essays about some detail in the story.

And I wasn't very good at that. And as a result, I ended up trying to read too much into specific details and couldn't really get my enjoyment out of the story as a whole.

It really sucks. :( I think I'm more into humor and non-fiction these days.

marlovino
10-22-2008, 07:12 PM
I used to read quite a bit (mostly sci-fi and fantasy) but really haven't read anything in the past couple years (avg about 2-4 250pg books). I am also one of those people who get sucked into a book. Back in high school my parents would either throw something or smack me upside the head to get my attention. :lol:

bunnyboy
10-22-2008, 09:58 PM
You are my kind of book geek! *loves Man Who Was Thursday, but not as much as Manalive*

Oddly, I'm one of those few who likes to read either classics of a Genre (Lewis, Howard, and Dunnasy for fantasy, Verne, Lovecraft, Borroughs for Weird fiction, and some of the classics) or read really obscure books....mmm the more obscure the better, at one point I was considering readin Paul Clifford by Edward Bulwer-Lytton....but decided against it...my brain might not be able to handle so much overblown prose. ;)

Who did Manalive....sounds obscure enough I might like it. ;)

JoitheArtist
10-22-2008, 11:35 PM
Who did Manalive....sounds obscure enough I might like it. ;)

*L* G. K. Chesterton. If you want a more obscure book of Chesterton's, read Club of Queer Trades, or The Poet and the Lunatics.

Btw, this awesome site has all of Lovecraft online: http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/index.html I'm slowly reading my way through it.

bunnyboy
10-23-2008, 03:02 AM
*L* G. K. Chesterton. If you want a more obscure book of Chesterton's, read Club of Queer Trades, or The Poet and the Lunatics.

Btw, this awesome site has all of Lovecraft online: http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/index.html I'm slowly reading my way through it.




:doh: Would you believe I had not slept when I asked?

No...Uhm...Hey what's that over there?

Canarr
10-23-2008, 10:06 AM
Back in school, our in-school library was my favorite place to spend breaks and free hours. So much to read... I still love reading, even though nowadays, I don't have as much time as I used to have.

Favorite book: Midnight Sun by Karl Edward Wagner. Best piece(s) of Fantasy I have ever read.

Hyndis
10-23-2008, 11:51 PM
*sigh* I need to find a library. I buy a new book, and within hours I'm finished. It took me about 4.5 hours to read the last Harry Potter book... :(

Same. I can read a 600 page novel in 4-5 hours. I've actually stopped buying books since I read them so quickly that its simply not a cost effective way to pass the time. And the local library was torn down and rebuilt as a wanna-be book store. During the rebuilding process they removed all of the good paperbacks and now only stock it with brand new hardback books. :cry:

iradney
10-24-2008, 06:35 AM
Same. I can read a 600 page novel in 4-5 hours. I've actually stopped buying books since I read them so quickly that its simply not a cost effective way to pass the time. And the local library was torn down and rebuilt as a wanna-be book store. During the rebuilding process they removed all of the good paperbacks and now only stock it with brand new hardback books. :cry:

I swear, there should be a club for speed readers. You undergo a test to determine your reading and comprehension speed, and if you pass, you get XX % off each book you buy. If you buy X amount of books per year, your discount gets increased by X %.
Of course, it will never take off :(

Hyndis
10-24-2008, 12:45 PM
I swear, there should be a club for speed readers. You undergo a test to determine your reading and comprehension speed, and if you pass, you get XX % off each book you buy. If you buy X amount of books per year, your discount gets increased by X %.
Of course, it will never take off :(

The funny thing is that I didn't even realize speed reading existed. I thought everyone read at that speed, at least until I had to take a stupid speed reading test thing in high school. I basically maxed out the score and of course the entire segment of the class was a waste of time for me, considering that I had a higher rate of reading and comprehension than the teacher himself.

morgana
10-24-2008, 02:08 PM
Back in school, our in-school library was my favorite place to spend breaks and free hours. So much to read... I still love reading, even though nowadays, I don't have as much time as I used to have.


Oh, gods, yes. And I'm another who used to be able to read and walk at the same time. I'd walk down to the public library with my nose in a book I was returning, and walk back from the library with my nose in a new one, and have it half read by the time I got home. Granted, it was almost a mile walk, but still . . .

Maybe I should try to cultivate that skill again? :lol:

PhotoChick
10-24-2008, 04:34 PM
I'm Photochick and I read to much. (Anyone else feel like were confessing to something bad?) When I was younger my parents would punish me by taking away my books. Being sent to my room also didn't work cause I had such a vivid imagination from all the books I read. I bought an iPod and I use it more to read (internet and eBooks) than I do to listen to music.

Reyneth
10-25-2008, 04:13 AM
There's only one condition that it's quite alright to use an apostrophy with a day of the week in my book.... when you review or do anything involving G.K. Chesterton's The Man who was Thursday...otherwise, go back to school.

May I introduce you to Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series? :wave: Good reading for book-lovers of the quirky, scientific-y sort.

I'm Photochick and I read to much. (Anyone else feel like were confessing to something bad?) When I was younger my parents would punish me by taking away my books. Being sent to my room also didn't work cause I had such a vivid imagination from all the books I read. I bought an iPod and I use it more to read (internet and eBooks) than I do to listen to music.

Oh my god! My parents did that too! I was punished for a whole 9-week grading period by having my books packed up. (I had gotten a C in a class because I didn't do all the assignments or turn them in.)

I started sneaking reading the World Book Encyclopedia. :lol:

JoitheArtist
10-25-2008, 07:12 AM
May I introduce you to Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series? :wave: Good reading for book-lovers of the quirky, scientific-y sort.

I LOVE Jasper Fforde!!!!! The Thursday Next books make me laugh out loud, I have the hardest time reading them quietly.

Broomjockey
10-25-2008, 07:15 AM
Riiiiiiight.

Invalid example. Implied subject and verb of "you are," phrased "you're," removed from normal construction to facilitate conveyance of sarcasm.

Alternatively, could be "Right, I disbelieve you" based on an implied question of "Don't you agree?" from the original statement.

Gurndigarn
10-25-2008, 12:27 PM
Invalid example. Implied subject and verb of "you are," phrased "you're," removed from normal construction to facilitate conveyance of sarcasm.

:ot:

I'm going to say it's a valid example. I know what was taught in school, and I always thought it was a cheat on the part of the linguistics people. That is, someone came up with what they considered the rules of the language. Only the rules didn't work all the time, only most of the time. So they created more rules to make the exceptions conform to the rules, which I think is sloppy scholarship: "Every sentence must have a subject and verb, so come hell or high water, every sentence will have a subject and verb, even if we have to change what was written/said to make it so!"

Meh*. That's what happens when you try to shove the rules of Latin** onto a non-Latin language.

* Which is a complete sentence.
** And the way we know the rules of Latin is by all the professors back in the days of Rome were complaining about how thier kids weren't following their this or that rule of their language, either.

LingualMonkey
10-25-2008, 01:17 PM
:ot:

I'm going to say it's a valid example. I know what was taught in school, and I always thought it was a cheat on the part of the linguistics people.

Sorry, no.

The people you want to raise a stink about are not linguists, but grammarians. Grammarians are concerned with people speaking and writing correctly, as in using proper English at all times. Linguists study communication itself.

In short:
Linguists are concerned with HOW people communicate.
Grammarians are concerned with HOW people SHOULD communicate.

Or to put it another way,
Linguists have no problem with that communication, as it is effective and the receiver would have no problem with understanding the utterance.
Grammarians will pull their hair out determining whether or not it contains a subject and verb.

[/linguistics M.A.]

Broomjockey
10-25-2008, 05:33 PM
:ot:

I'm going to say it's a valid example.

I'm not saying there are *no* valid examples. I'm saying that one was not. Meh is a valid example. The "riiiiiiiiiiiiight" was not, because it is understood that there's more to the message. That's how sarcasm works. If any time there's implied meaning, there's implied subjects and or actions. "Meh." is a complete meaning unto itself. There's nothing implied.

Skeksin
10-25-2008, 07:38 PM
Grammar Nazis!!!

Where??

<hides in fear>

JoitheArtist
10-25-2008, 09:17 PM
In short:
Linguists are concerned with HOW people communicate.
Grammarians are concerned with HOW people SHOULD communicate.

[/linguistics M.A.]

Linguists are fun. The ones of my acquaintance are known to sit around for hours, making very odd sounds, debating how those sounds should be categorized, and how the sound might morph in use over the years.

They're also waaaaaaay too cheery in the mornings.

crazylegs
10-25-2008, 09:54 PM
Veering back (somewhat) to the original topic.

What the blazes is a GPA? (I lack the privilege of a college education)

Broomjockey
10-25-2008, 10:16 PM
GPA = Grade point average. Instead of letter grades, you're given number. Most colleges 4.0 = "perfect".

Hyndis
10-25-2008, 10:55 PM
Veering back (somewhat) to the original topic.

What the blazes is a GPA? (I lack the privilege of a college education)

A = 4
B = 3
C = 2
D = 1
F = 0

Add up the total number of points and then divide by the number of classes taken. A GPA of 4 is the best, a GPA of 0 means you won't get any additional numbers to add into your average. :lol:

bunnyboy
10-26-2008, 01:05 AM
May I introduce you to Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series? :wave: Good reading for book-lovers of the quirky, scientific-y sort.:


Maybe...I'd have to look at it.

JoitheArtist
10-26-2008, 01:45 AM
Maybe...I'd have to look at it.

It's awesome. By the third book, you have Miss Havisham leading rage counseling sessions for the cast of Wuthering Heights. Which is broken up by a violent pro-Catherine group, trying to kill Heathcliff.

Seriously, it references a TON of great literature, but in a funny and fresh way. Jasper Fforde is totally a book geek.

Bandit
10-26-2008, 02:10 AM
Hell, most people know that as soon as they walk in the front door into my library living room.

I know the feeling - I'm moving now, and now realize that 5 bookcases and all the books that go with them are FARKING heavy!

B

Hyndis
10-26-2008, 09:39 AM
I know the feeling - I'm moving now, and now realize that 5 bookcases and all the books that go with them are FARKING heavy!

B

I often have to take books off of my bookshelf due to the simple issue of weight. Its a sturdy wooden bookshelf, but the shelves do bend under the weight of the books and I wouldn't want the entire thing to buckle and collapse. I do long term storage of my books in simple file boxes stored on the ground and stacked. The downside is that its hard to find things, but at least it won't cause furniture to collapse. :(

Belari
10-26-2008, 10:11 AM
When I was 14, I skipped my classes a lot. I mean, enough that I failed 3. What was I doing for those 3 hours a day when I should have been in school? I was at the public library, reading. Yeah. My parents were convinced I was off doing drugs. NOBODY believed me when I told them where I really was:cry:

mariamousie1
10-26-2008, 12:55 PM
Prof. Jolliffe? Is that you?
Sorry, you just sounded familiar. ;)

SylviasDaddy
10-26-2008, 09:39 PM
[wowing a hard-to-please professor]

The year was 1996. The venue was a small town, home to Small Town University (STU). I had a wife and a new daughter.

I had been graduated from high school in May 1970 and, over the years, accumulated various college credits. I discovered that I was 18 hours shy of a Baccalaureate of Applied Arts & Sciences, so I went for it.

One of our friends was the wife of a political science professor who was known to be the most demanding professor in the department. I have always relished a challenge, so I determined to take a class under him.

Dr. Squatty-Body (as I shall call him) stood about 165 cm short, bearded, and with the same scowl you might see on a leprechaun if you stole his gold and then yanked his beard. Add his high-pitched, sharp-toned voice, his own grading system (not letters, not percentages, and not the customary four-point) and general demeanor of “Just try to pass this class! Just try!”, factor in my vast lack of self-confidence, and you can see that the semester was going to be a walk in the park – specifically, NYC Central Park at 3 a.m.!

The class met three days each week, and Dr. Squatty-Body would treat us each day to one of his shrill lectures. Each Friday he would assign a paper. Each Monday we would turn in our papers. Each Wednesday he would pair us off to critique each other’s papers. Each Friday he would hand our papers back, all marked up, and assign another paper.

I resolved to do my best. I might pass, or I might fail miserably, but I figured I would be the better for having had the experience. Each Friday I awaited my returned paper with fear and trembling. Each Friday I received a paper with a Squatty-body grade that equaled an A, and another assignment to agonize over.

After the third paper, I approached him. “Dr. Squatty-Body,” I began ..

“Yes, what do you want?” he snapped.

“On the first paper, I got (grade) …”

“That was an A,” he scowled.

“And on the second paper, I got (grade) …”

“That was another A!”

“And then today ...”

“You got a third A. What is your point?” he demanded.

“If I keep performing at this rate, do I have a reasonable expectation of passing this class?”

He looked at me as a stepmother might regard a grimy stepchild. “Yes, you just might pass this class” he finally said.

As I left his presence, I could feel him staring daggers into my back.

Came the end of the semester. We wrote our finals during Dead Week and I received an A in the course. One fine Saturday I was graduated in full and ample form, and I saw Mrs. Squatty-Body at church the next day.

“Not only did I pass Dr. Squatty-Body’s class,” I informed her, “I got an A!”

She grinned. “I remember the day the class turned in their first paper. He came home that afternoon waving your paper and saying ‘This guy can WRITE!’”

“Gee, I wish I’d known that,” I remarked.

“Well, I told your wife the very next day,” she said. “I wonder why she didn’t tell you.”

“I wonder the same.”

On the way home, I related the conversation I had had that morning. My wife confirmed everything Mrs. Squatty-Body had said.”

“Why didn’t you tell me?” I asked. “Here I am sweating bullets all semester and now I learn that I practically had a A in the bag!”

She smiled. “I know you work better under pressure. I figured if I told you, you might slack off and end up with a B or a C.”

(She was right.)

[egregious grammatical errors]

What about pronoun-antecedent disagreement?

The teacher issues a memo: "Every student must bring their book to class."

What he wants is students to books in a one-to-one correspondence (each student armed with a textbook).

What he has requested is a roomful of students and one communal book.

He has a doctorate, yet he writes as if his years of education were expressible as a single digit.

[more egregious errors]

How many times have I been told that a shop is open for three hours of a Saturday, and the posted hours are "Saturday 9 a.m. -- 12 p.m."?

That's fifteen hours!

How often have I pointed out the error and been laughed to scorn?

Even when I handed the shopkeeper the following, no good was done:

12:00 p.m. is not noon.

The abbreviations a.m. and p.m. stand for the Latin phrases ante meridiem (before noon) and post meridiem (after noon). (The Latin word for noon, meridies, changes to meridiem when used with the prepositions ante and post.)

In English, we would represent noon and its adjacent times as follows:

11:59 before noon
12:00 noon
12:01 after noon

Substituting Latin for the English phrases gives us:

11:59 ante meridiem
12:00 meridies
12:01 post meridiem

Abbreviate the Latin phrases, and we have:

11:59 a.m.
12:00 m.
12:01 p.m.

Noon, therefore, is properly expressed as 12:00 m.

[more egregious errors]

How often have I heard the phrase "PIN number?""

How often have I pointed out:

The abbreviation PIN means personal identification number.
To say PIN number is to say personal identification number number -- which phrase has no meaning.

How much good has it done?

LingualMonkey
10-26-2008, 10:52 PM
How often have I pointed out:

The abbreviation PIN means personal identification number.
To say PIN number is to say personal identification number number -- which phrase has no meaning.

How much good has it done?

Not unlike "ATM machine," which would thus stand for "automatic teller machine machine."

We have a Discount Shoe Warehouse about 30 miles away from us (near family, so I pass it now and then). The sign reads "DSW Show Warehouse." This means that the name of the store is "Discount Shoe Warehouse Shoe Warehouse."

Drives me bat guano sandwich eatin' crazy, I tell ya.

Jester
10-26-2008, 11:55 PM
SylviasDaddy, I am going to have to disagree with you on the time thing.

First, about p.m. Yes, technically you are half-right. Noon is NOT p.m. However, since all of the rest of the noon hour IS p.m., "12pm" is generally accepted AS noon. (I personally love when people write noon as "12am" and midnight as "12pm," which is of course fantastically wrong, but all too common.)

As to your second point about how noon SHOULD be written, many business now get around the above little problem by indicating noon as "12n" and midnight as "12m," with the "n" representing noon and the "m" representing midnight, so that idiot customers don't wonder "why is your shop not open until midnight?" if they see "12pm." No, it's not Latin. It's English. It may not be proper or official, but it WORKS.

Remember, folks, language evolves. It always has, it always will. What was "proper" then may not be "proper" anymore. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of anything goes, and prefer people who speak intelligently. But if we get locked into what "should" be based on what has been, we are losing the evolutionary aspect to the language that is so damn important for continued communication.

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams spoke the same language we do today, but they did not speak anything like the way we do today. This is not a bad thing.

kiwiwinelover
10-27-2008, 12:05 AM
2. When in Middle School (and sometimes to this day) I was somewhat known for reading and walking. And I don't mean pacing back and forth while reading, I mean reading and entire 50 page book on the walk home from school, including crossing streets. I stopped at every street, looked up, looked both ways, then nose in book again.:D

Can anyone tell that I love to read?:rolleyes:

[/threadjack]

I just don't understand why people don't like reading. It never made any sense to me.

SC

Um... can anyone say reads in the shower? :ashamed:

What? I like being clean and I like reading!!!!!!!!!!!:angel:

And I agree - huge book fan - you can starve me or beat me just DON"T TAKE AWAY MY BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jester
10-27-2008, 12:22 AM
Okay, I have to ask....how the hell does one read in the shower?

kiwiwinelover
10-27-2008, 12:45 AM
With difficulty :lol:

Nah, one hand holding the book, the other hand....cleans. its really not that hard. It was embarassing though when my mum went to a parent-teacher interview, was told that I spend my time in clas reading instead of working, and mum relayed the time she caught me in the shower with a book.... cringe

Broomjockey
10-27-2008, 12:52 AM
I believe the question before the court isn't the mechanics, but the physics. Wouldn't the book be ruined by the water?

Jester
10-27-2008, 12:53 AM
No, I get the mechanics of it. What I don't understand is how you keep the book from getting wet, either from not paying attention and letting it get under the direct spray or from indirect splatter. I would ruin the book trying to read in the shower.

Of course, I take VERY fast showers*, so I wouldn't bother trying your particular bathroom pastime.

My record is going from Slug on the Couch to showered, shaved, dressed and Ready for a Date in 11 minutes flat. Shocked the hell out of The Brit. I wasn't even rushing.

Broomjockey
10-27-2008, 12:57 AM
My record is going from Slug on the Couch to showered, shaved, dressed and Ready for a Date in 11 minutes flat.

I can go from asleep to ready for work and out the door in 10. :p :lol:

kiwiwinelover
10-27-2008, 12:57 AM
Nope, you use your body to block the water. I'm not standing with the shower pelting down on the book! Then again I do read in the shower so who knows I may be that crazy...

kiwiwinelover
10-27-2008, 01:00 AM
I can go from asleep to ready for work and out the door in 10. :p :lol:

I'm a girl. It takes me 15 to do my makeup.... *sigh* sometimes I wish I was a guy... the whole just got out of bed look can be so sexy....

Broomjockey
10-27-2008, 01:04 AM
the whole just got out of bed look can be so sexy....

When I was rockin' the short hair, I was king of that look. Now that it's longer, I pretty much can't do that anymore without looking like a cat attacked my hair. I'm really considering getting it cut down.

kiwiwinelover
10-27-2008, 01:10 AM
without looking like a cat attacked my hair

:lol::lol::lol:

I'd go for whatever you feel comfortable with and is easy to manage. I am very lucky that my very long, thick naturally wavy hair will look fantastic the morning after going to bed with it wet. So my just got out of bed look is how I look normally! Yay!!!

Long hair on a dude can be so hot, but you gotta work it!!!!

Jester
10-27-2008, 03:29 AM
the whole just got out of bed look can be so sexy....

When I say I can get ready quickly, that means READY, as in looking like I DIDN'T just get out of bed, thank you very much. :cool:

Broomjockey
10-27-2008, 03:42 AM
looking like I DIDN'T just get out of bed, thank you very much. :cool:

Same. I'm just saying, I can totally look decent that way.

JoitheArtist
10-27-2008, 06:09 AM
When I was a kid I always took long soaky baths, accompanied by whatever book I was reading. Or Reader's Digest. (I collected Reader's Digest as a kid. I had most issues from the 1970's, all of the 80's, and all of the 90's up to that point. And had read all of them, too.)

Then when I was a teen I switched to showers, because I thought it was grown up. Then I realized I couldn't read in the shower.

Have insisted on baths ever since. :)

Best part was freshman and sophomore year in college. Only one bathtub on the floor. Everyone else took showers. The bathtub was in its own little room with a lockable door. Absolute best way to destress after a test.

And no, I never dropped a book in the water. One book did commit harikiri by dissolving its binding glue and suddenly falling apart in my hands and dropping into the water, but that we NOT my fault.

Jester
10-27-2008, 06:22 AM
One book did commit harikiri by dissolving its binding glue and suddenly falling apart in my hands and dropping into the water, but that we NOT my fault.

Actually, it might have been.

I would venture a guess that these long baths of yours were HOT baths. Hot baths produce steam. Steam, my friend, dissolves glue. And if the book was already a bit old, or you read that one over several baths.......

Yeah.

JoitheArtist
10-27-2008, 06:33 AM
Actually, it might have been.

I would venture a guess that these long baths of yours were HOT baths. Hot baths produce steam. Steam, my friend, dissolves glue. And if the book was already a bit old, or you read that one over several baths.......

Yeah.

The book was from a garage sale, and the binding was already shot to hell.

But it was still the book's fault. Damn suicidal YA books.... :lol:

Iris Kojiro
10-27-2008, 07:05 AM
I didn't put nearly enough points in my DEX score as a kid to be able to read a book in a bathtub or a shower without getting the book wet.

In all seriousness, I admire your dedication to books, and I'll freely admit that I should read more books of my own free will than I do now. I do read a lot of (non-trashy) news, for all that's worth.

Naaman
10-28-2008, 12:06 AM
I'd probably give the shower option a go if it wasn't for my piss poor eyes :(

-7.5 & -7.75, I can read a book unaided it it's about 3" from my face :(

As for dropping books in the bath, only one but it was Battlefield Earth and deserved everything it got

bunnyboy
10-28-2008, 07:16 AM
Remember, folks, language evolves. It always has, it always will. What was "proper" then may not be "proper" anymore. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of anything goes, and prefer people who speak intelligently. But if we get locked into what "should" be based on what has been, we are losing the evolutionary aspect to the language that is so damn important for continued communication.


I think I heard one of my elnglish teachers at some point put it this way, the only languages that are static are confined to the two places the dead go, churches or coffins (i.e. fixed languages are as a rule liturgical or extinct.)

and remember, it is proper to end a sentence in a preposition....GERMANIC LANGUAGE ENGLISH FTW!

SylviasDaddy
10-28-2008, 10:35 AM
"12pm" is generally accepted AS noon.

Just because something "generally accepted" does not make it so.

It is "generally accepted" that Sherlock Holmes is famous for saying "Elementary, my dear Watson" -- but that phrase is found nowhere in the four novels and fifty-six short stories.

Remember, folks, language evolves. It always has, it always will. What was "proper" then may not be "proper" anymore.

I disagree.

To spin a parallel:

To build a particular building, one must use the materials for the building according to the plan for the building. If, for example, I wish to build a brick garage, I must use the materials for a brick garage and arrange them according to the plans for a brick garage. I cannot arrange the materials for a brick garage according to the plans for a barbecue pit, or arrange the materials of a chicken-coop according to the plans for a brick garage, and expect to end up with a brick garage.

A language consists of two parts: the lexicon (the set of words used in that language), and the grammar (the rules for utilizing the lexicon).

If I am to speak or write a language, I must use that language's lexicon according to that language's grammar.

By French law, L'Académie française has the authority to regulate the French language. They alone can approve changes to its lexicon or grammar.

No similar authority exists to regulate the English language. Until such authority is established, therefore, no individual or group of individuals has the power to change the language. It is to be used as it exists. To do otherwise is improper, no matter how many people do it, no matter how many people accept it.

Paradoxical as it may seem, the English language is greater than its speakers.

Chromatix
10-30-2008, 01:45 AM
I disagree with *that*. If there is no de jure standard, then all that is left is the de facto standard. Which is the speakers themselves.

The Oxford and Cambridge (and Webster) dictionaries are not definitions of the language. They are treated as such in isolated circumstances, such as for word games, but that is in fact not what they are. They are a product of research into the language. As the language changes, words are added to the dictionary and meanings are added to existing words. At the same time, many old words and usages are left in the dictionary even though nobody uses them any more, because the old texts still exist and need to be understood by readers.

In any case, French is a good example of how de jure standardisation of language doesn't work. Officially, French is not supposed to "borrow" words from other languages - there must be deliberation over how to make a brand-new, genuinely French word for each new term. Yet French-speakers in practice use words like "le week-end" and so on, habitually. French road signs say "STOP" - it's only in Quebec, where they are even more anal-retentive about their language, that they say "ARRET".

Broomjockey
10-30-2008, 02:05 AM
Okay, I'm in training to be an editor, and I'm finding this off-topic and argumentative. Everyone knock it off now. Either continue through PMs or start a thead on fratching, but there isn't to be any more grammatical or lingusitic arguments in this thread.

McGoddess09
10-30-2008, 02:45 AM
I remember in Sophmore Biology class, I had a book I was reading for fun on my desk. One of the boys turned and looked at the book and said to me "You read alot. Does that mean you do witchcraft?"

I love reading. At the age of 10, I was reading Lord of the Rings and understanding every word in it. Now, I tend to use the old way of speaking in my papers and get them marked wrong if my classmates are looking over it. It's so funny to have the teacher look at them and say "Hey! It's right! Why did you mark it wrong?" My classmates never heard of the word 'whilst'. This was the Honors class.

It saddens me. I devour every book that is placed in front of my hands and the people around me tell me they hate to read and ask me why I even like it. I weep for them all.

purplecat41877
10-30-2008, 05:50 AM
It takes me 15 to do my makeup.

I can do my makeup in about 2 minutes. I don't even use a mirror.:D

Severen13
10-30-2008, 05:10 PM
I got this all the time during middle and high school. I'm always reading something for fun. Most of my classmates in the little hick town I lived in teased me over it, saying that I was only reading that Really Long Book because it made me "look smart". Or there was no way that I could have finished the reading assignment a week before it was due. Never mind that I read at a college level by the time I got to middle school.

At a couple of jobs I had, I faced a repeat of this song and dance. Look, dumbass, I don't tease you for watching soaps or Jackass on your lunch break. Don't tease me because I'm reading Pratchett (and laughing my head off) on mine.

I used to get that. People would say, "Severen, every time I see you, you're reading a different book."

That usually happens when I start reading a new book after finishing the old book. :wave:

TimmyHate
03-28-2009, 08:19 AM
*steps out of the intellectual closest and stands proudly as a "reader"* (Cookies for the reference)

I LOVE reading. Instilled in me by two English teachers for parents, i was in my younger years NEVER seen without a book. When my parents were taking sports camps I'd sometimes be reading the same coursebooks the high school students were reading...

Even at work I keep myself sane between calls reading. Currently in my desk drawer: "Models of Madness" (http://www.amazon.com/Models-Madness-Psychological-Biological-Schizophrenia/dp/1583919066)...you know..."light" reading

(I should point out I'm a psych major...but this book has never been required reading for my papers (though was written by my favorite prof)).

Currently by my bed: "Faking It - The quest for authenticity in popular music" (http://www.amazon.com/Faking-Quest-Authenticity-Popular-Music/dp/0393060780/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238228209&sr=1-4). Heard it mentioned in one of my courses last semester and picked it up at the university bookshop.

Next up: Snoop - what your stuff says about you (http://www.amazon.com/Snoop-What-Your-Stuff-About/dp/0465027814/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238228268&sr=1-1).

I consider myself weird as 99% of what i like to read are books from university presses - i like a good novel every now and then, but normally I'm into my non-fiction.

*ends bookgeekyness (It is too a word!)*

jedimaster91
03-28-2009, 06:07 PM
*joins the ranks of book nerds*

I have in my possession a Dictionary of American Idioms. I squeed like a rabid fangirl when I saw it at the bookstore. Stuff like that makes me happy. I also took a really nice thesaurus off a friend of mine who won it in some kind of contest and didn't want it. :D

SorchaMochrie
04-03-2009, 06:38 AM
My father, who isn't a scholar by any definition, bought me a dictionary for my birthday when I was about 11.

I didn't have a collage reading level till eight grade.

I also "hyper focus" when reading, playing video games or sewing.
I have ADD. I was labeled gifted/learning disabled. My reading comprehension and vocabulary were off the charts, my hand writing and spelling were sadly less impressive. I was found to have an issue with "visual processing"

I love reading but hate writing. Even writing posts to this board make me glad I use firefox with its auto spell check. In school I disliked writing so much I would procrastinate terribly, and often didn't get my work turned in. Other times I decided that I understood the course work well enough and didn't need the practice of homework. Unfortunately you can't get good grades simply by doing well on the tests. My mom took away my Nintendo, television, social life and every last novel in my room.

In eight grade my mom picked up 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and How to Win Friends and Influence People for me at a book fair. Guess which one I never read.

I disturbed my freshman English teacher by doing a book report on A Clockwork Orange. (the 21 chapter version, not the 20 chapter version more common in the states)

My 9 year old has a 3.67 gpa. (they grade 1-4, in 6 different major sections. Reading is broken into 3 minor sections, writing into 3, listening and speaking into 2 mathematics into 5, science is one and history is one. hm... it would be 3.5 if you count only each major section. Reading is 4 across the board, writing is 3 (the teacher will not give 4s as she wants the student to try and do better always) listening and speaking is 4 math is 4 all the way, science is 3, and history is 3.

My mother sent her the Coraline GN for her birthday this past month, she spent 2 hours reading it when she was supposed to be doing her homework. She loves Through the Looking Glass, and Wizard of Oz. She tried reading the Lost World, but abandoned it during the first chapter, when everyone is meeting. She didn't find it exciting enough. Right now she's reading Inkspell, which is 2 inches thick with as small a typeset as any Steven King book I've read. The girl loves Cornelia Funke.

My biggest fear is that she'll get lazy. She's my main hope for college, out of all 4 kids.

The 14 year old received an F- in English on her last progress report. This is a girl who always has a book on her. She simply will not do the work.

The 12 year old is getting wonderful grades in math, but mediocre ones elsewhere. The boy wants to design (and/or program) video games. I told him he needs at least a 2.5, As or Bs in math and nothing lower than a C on his reports and I'll send him to a special summer camp in Texas in 3 years.

The 10 year old is the biggest disappointment. However she's also the one who seems the most like me. She seems to have the same problem with spelling and handwriting that I did/do. She's in danger of being held back, again. The first time was for social reasons in kindergarten, she was the physically smallest, and emotionally neediest child in her class, her teacher thought she would benefit from the extra time. It seems tho to have been more detrimental, as she's never had as many friends at school again as she did that year, and even 5 years later behaves in the same way, in some vane attempt to relive a more pleasant school time. She is often ostracized by her peers now, and it makes us hurt for her. I'm afraid that if we get involved with her social life it will just make it worse.



On another note, has anyone else heard about the dialect dictionary? I saw a fluff piece on it and now want to find a copy, never mind its as big as an encyclopedia!


Now I need to pick a new book of the shelf and head to bed. I finished the last one at work today.

LingualMonkey
04-03-2009, 02:06 PM
*steps out of the intellectual closest and stands proudly as a "reader"* (Cookies for the reference)

I read for a lot of reasons. The main one is so I don't end up as a f***ing waffle waitress.

EricKei
04-03-2009, 03:20 PM
Lapsed, but proud, Book Nerd, here :D

This thread reminds me of two of my favorite teachers ever, both from college -- Second one first.

2nd fave: Senior-level Chaucer prof. She knew enough about the history and the older forms of the English language itself to teach classes about same. Things like the Canterbury Tales become much more engrossing when you have someone who can explain even the most obscure references in the text without having to resort to the Cliff Notes. It's thanks to her that I can read the Tales aloud with proper pronunciation. The scary part is, it's not that hard to understand when you *hear* it.

She got elevated to my second place "fave", edging out my high school English teacher, when I discovered that she had written quite a few books about JRR Tolkien. She knew enough about that subject to teach a class about him (but never did). Please note that I mean "a class about Tolkien himself", not Hobbit/LoTR...Though I'm sure she could have done that, as well. This was a few years before the movies came out.

My all-time favorite teacher was the lady who taught me English Literature. She probably skipped more classes than any student, but that wasn't her claim to fame. She had a very simple philosophy when it came to exposition, papers, and the like: "If you can prove your point by using evidence from the text, YOU'RE RIGHT, even if I personally think you're full of s***". She says that the only time she told someone flat out that their idea would not fly was the time that a student proposed that Shakespeare's plays were describing events that took place during Star Wars... Even she had her limits.:devil:

cinema guy
04-03-2009, 03:38 PM
I read for a lot of reasons. The main one is so I don't end up as a f***ing waffle waitress.

"Well, it looks like we got ourselves a reader."

:lol::roll::lol::roll:

For those who don't know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvs2g5Nj0NI

Yfandes
04-03-2009, 03:40 PM
Does anyone else like to read in fairly busy places? I don't know why, but one of my favorite places to read is at a fairly busy bar. Of course you have to deal with the whole "whatcha readin' little lady?", but some of the regulars at a dive bar I used to go to would actually join me. Then the bar tender started putting "rails" of 2 x 4's and broomsticks either side of us to keep people from bothering us :p

For the strange reading material selection: when I was 9 I had a fascination with Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich" and re-read it over and over again :confused:

Setsunaela
04-03-2009, 03:41 PM
I can't wait till I can afford to go to college.. I'm praying I get a "difficult" english prof.
I've gotten into trouble many a time for my book-devouring ways, but this one is absolutely the most memorable.

In sixth grade, our state had its first state-wide standardized english test, to gather information on everyone's reading level. It had already been established that I had at LEAST a 12th grade reading level, as the test they gave me didn't go any higher than that..
We took a pre-test (to get us used to the idea of a standardized test with rules and a 1.5 hour time limit) there were five different tests, and those various tests were spread out so that no child was sitting beside another with the same test.
I was also seated in the back of the class, beside only three students. One napped the whole test period, and two were failing the class miserably. I finished my test in 10 minutes, and carefully re-read every question and checked every answer. Twice. So, 30 minutes in, I do as instructed, and quietly leave my seat and carry my (covered) answer sheet to the teacher, where she has a special transparent sheet that she lays over my sheet to check my answers. I had a 100.

She pulled me out of the classroom, and screamed at me in the hallway that I CHEATED! I cried. She took this as a sign of guilt. She assigned me detention for cheating, and said I had to take the test again, alone, in the hall, with a different test. I took it, crying, in the hall, humiliated. I didn't even bother checking my answers, just did the thing and handed it in asap. Another 100, another accusation of cheating, and me being informed that if I cheated on the real test, I would be expelled. I was sent to the principal and my mother was called. My mother fought tooth and nail (and won) to have this "cheating", and the punishment, removed, and removed from my school record. I was transferred away from this teacher and sent to the only other one with room, and spent the rest of my 6th grade year in "year-round" school schedule, where my teacher basically gave me private english classes, with my own books to read, my own essays/book reviews to write, in back of the class, with full permission to either ignore the easier classwork the rest of the class was doing, or to do it for extra credit.

I'm always running 'round with a book under my nose, as is my mother.

Dreamstalker
04-03-2009, 03:42 PM
There was a guy in my college freshman class who had a .2XX GPA.
I have no idea what the ex's GPA was, but I'm willing to bet it was similar. Through four years of college he had a whopping 13 credits...and had no idea why this was (um...maybe because you never studied?).

AriRashkae
04-03-2009, 03:43 PM
Does anyone else like to read in fairly busy places? I don't know why, but one of my favorite places to read is at a fairly busy bar. Of course you have to deal with the whole "whatcha readin' little lady?", but some of the regulars at a dive bar I used to go to would actually join me. Then the bar tender started putting "rails" of 2 x 4's and broomsticks either side of us to keep people from bothering us :p


We plan to have a reading corner, stocked with random finds we get from used book sales, etc. Now if only my husband would get off his @$$ and tell me what he wants so I can work on the damned business plan! :rant:

Drakstern
04-03-2009, 04:07 PM
Every teacher in my high school knew who I was, even ones I'd A.) never met and B.) NEVER HEARD OF. It was due to my tendency to read while walking and do so without missing a beat. I'd even keep my balance/hold on the book when the inevitable gauntlet of feet would come out to attempt to trip me.

Of course, the teachers quickly learned that taking away my book during a class would do nothing, since I would just start reading ahead in the textbook... and they couldn't take that one away from me.

Then again, I was also infamous for being the one that always caught teachers off guard, since I never looked like I was paying attention. I cannot sit still. It is physically impossible for me. I am always moving. About the closest to 'still' you get from me is that I'll be sitting and watching, but my feet will still be moving, or I'll be tapping my fingers, or I'll be doing something else unconsciously. I don't notice it, and literally do not know I'm doing it. Anyway, this was worse when I was younger, before I started to get some control over it, so I would never appear to be paying attention. To add to this, I don't take notes. When I was younger, I had a choice, I could write fast or I could write legibly. If I was writing fast enough to keep up, I wouldn't be able to read my *own* notes. If I didn't, I fell behind. So I just stopped.

So, what do teachers do when they think you're not paying attention? They call on you.

I would always get the answers right, to the point that I would recite EXACTLY what the teacher had just said back to them.

They stopped calling on me after a while and just left me to it.

As an aside, at last count(last year), including all my D&D books, graphic novels, and various book type things... I currently own over 1200 books. And that's not including the books I've bought over the last year, which- since I was being careful with my money- probably only add another 50 or so to the count. I have read each and every one of them. Most of them more than once. Some of them to the point that the binding is falling apart.

Dreamstalker
04-03-2009, 04:15 PM
one of the teachers there saw me reading a full blown novel and took it away from me because it was too complicated for me to understand or some such nonsense. :rolleyes:
The teacher of a "special ed" English class of mine in high school (how I got shuffled into that I will never know) was the same way. Except...she meant "too complicated" as in relative to the assigned reading (some mind-numbingly stupid YA sports novel that I finished in two hours).

We were to do "reading logs" (mini book reports). Mine typically involved Heinlein, Bradbury, Lovecraft...and the teacher would grade me poorly because she didn't think I understood said books (this is HIGH SCHOOL, check my record and you'll see that I was reading at a ninth grade level in fourth grade).

Yfandes
04-04-2009, 03:08 AM
We plan to have a reading corner, stocked with random finds we get from used book sales, etc. Now if only my husband would get off his @$$ and tell me what he wants so I can work on the damned business plan! :rant:

OMG my fantasy bar!! I'd bring in books to swap!
Will the snacks be "whatever you feel like making, or here's a bag of peanuts?"

Seshat
04-04-2009, 03:25 AM
So, 30 minutes in, I do as instructed, and quietly leave my seat and carry my (covered) answer sheet to the teacher, where she has a special transparent sheet that she lays over my sheet to check my answers. I had a 100.

She pulled me out of the classroom, and screamed at me in the hallway that I CHEATED! I cried. She took this as a sign of guilt. She assigned me detention for cheating, and said I had to take the test again, alone, in the hall, with a different test. I took it, crying, in the hall, humiliated. I didn't even bother checking my answers, just did the thing and handed it in asap. Another 100, another accusation of cheating, and me being informed that if I cheated on the real test, I would be expelled.

THAT sort of thing really pisses me off. :rant: :pissed:


Some people are just smart. That's all there is to it.

ArcticChicken
04-04-2009, 07:02 AM
Let's see if I can remember everything I wanted to comment on in the 15 pages of thread I just read.

Never mind that I read at a college level by the time I got to middle school.

I tested at a college level in either fourth or fifth grade. It took me a while to realize that the test was for comprehension, not what I was actually reading. All of a sudden it made a lot more sense.


A sad percentage of my students, when asked for their favorite book on the first day of class, respond with "I don't have a favorite book. I hate reading."

I don't have a favorite book, because that would mean I have to pick. I don't have a favorite author at the moment either.

He handed out a copy of Jabberwocky to demonstrate that even nonsense can be poetry. He jokingly asked if anyone volunteered to read it in front of the class, and was shocked when I instantly agreed; he was even more surprised when I did it without stumbling over any of it, and keeping a consistent rythym.


I almost wouldn't need the printout to read Jabberwocky. I always got compliments when I would read things aloud for class. I'm told I was the most understandable and interesting of the people in my class, because I read like I'm familiar with the work, even if I've never seen it before.

I do this too! People always ask me how, all I can say is... I just do. It's not hard. Front brain deals with book, rest of brain deals with all other input (including space around book in peripheral vision and audio).

I can't do that, too much of me goes into reading and I tend to just....stop moving.

"How many of you pisscutters couldn't figure out which state was named for William Penn?!"


:headdesk:

Oh, and as the librarian's family, we always helped set up the Friends of the Library used book sale....which meant scouting out all the good books before anyone else arrived. :)

I think I might hate you.

My poor younger sister, who only read about half of what I did, always thought she was stupid. Till she went to college. And encountered people who thought "facade" was pronounced "FAY-cade", and had about a quarter of her vocabulary. :)

I still pronounce a great deal of my vocabulary wrongly, because I didn't hear it actually said by anybody until it had gotten stuck in my brain the way I guessed it to be pronounced, and I just don't hear it often enough to correct it. Mostly this manifests as stresses on odd syllables, but it took me ages to stop pronouncing it fuh-KADE.

I don't know how else to describe it. The only thing that existed while I was reading was the book itself.

I can think of at least two instances where I missed the end of recess bell because I was so engrossed in a book, and once I couldn't figure out why the characters in my book were riding around on motorcycles and not wearing raincoats. Then I looked up and realized that I was in the middle of a raging thunderstorm, and it was sunny in the book.


As to the extra apostrophes, etc....

My current favorite pet peeve is misused quotation marks. For example a carryout place near me some outdoor tables, and the signs in the window read "No" Alchoholic beverages allowed outside. GAHH!

my teachers, my parents, my ExWife and my daughter quickly learned that when I was reading a book you could have a direct impact nuclear explosion go off right next to me and I would not notice.

I can't seem to train my housemates call my name, then wait for me to look at them or reply when they want to get my attention and I'm reading. It can seriously take 30 seconds for me to process that they've said anything, and by that point they're halfway through what they wanted to say, and they're pissed that they have to start over.

I've actually stopped buying books since I read them so quickly that its simply not a cost effective way to pass the time.

You don't reread them?

The scary part is, it's not that hard to understand when you *hear* it.

The first thing I do when I have trouble understanding something is to read it aloud, that takes care of the problem most of the time. That's how I handle anything written before, oh, say, the late 18- to early 1900s.



There, I think that was everything that came to mind. Forgive me if it's not entirely coherent, it's 3am, and besides, I know what I was trying to say.

TonyDonuts
04-04-2009, 04:41 PM
She pulled me out of the classroom, and screamed at me in the hallway that I CHEATED! I cried. She took this as a sign of guilt. She assigned me detention for cheating, and said I had to take the test again, alone, in the hall, with a different test. I took it, crying, in the hall, humiliated. I didn't even bother checking my answers, just did the thing and handed it in asap. Another 100, another accusation of cheating, and me being informed that if I cheated on the real test, I would be expelled.

Teachers like that kill the school experience for so many kids. "Oh, you did better than I think someone should do on this test, you must be a CHEATER!"

And then we wonder why kids don't like or respect their teachers. There's too many like this around.

Good on your mother for standing up for you.

Also, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to have had the Bill Hicks Restaurant Encounter (tm) with an employee who "tsk, tsks" at the person eating alone who is reading a big old book. "Well, you know I hate reading."

Really? I never would have guessed that about you.

bookishfreak
04-05-2009, 01:01 AM
I started reading at two, and have been a huge book nerd since. I remember being eight years old at the book fair at school, wanting to buy "Phantom of the Opera" and the lady I was buying it from refusing to let me buy it!! "It's too hard, it's too long. It's too complex. There aren't any pictures, you won't like it." My teacher intervened on my behalf. I bought it, read it, understood it and loved it. I honestly hate it when people try to tell kids that they "can't" read something...if a kid hears that enough times, they will believe it and stop wanting to read!

I later on took a test at ten and it showed that I had a reading and writing level that was college level and beyond. :shrug: My favorite book is probably either "Frankenstein" (Read it when I was nine, and I absolutely loved it. I must have re-read it at least ten times since.) Or if I'm in a easy book mood the Harry Potter series. (So good for that instant escape for me...I breezed through the last book in about six hours or so..) :) lol But also, Stephen King is really good too. I LOVE being a book nerd, my nose is always in a book. I have also gotten good at the whole "reading and walking thing" although once, I DID walk straight into a tree. I swear that thing jumped into my path!!!

dysplektia
04-05-2009, 10:46 AM
I am not alone !

The reading and <insert other activity> without mishap, is my main physical skill. In many other areas that require multiple co-ordination of hand/brain and feet, I'm rather clumsy.
Living in a small village, we had a travelling library. It was the accepted practise to drive past my street, pick me up, and let me sit in the back of the library van reading until the end of the tour of the village, at which point I was allowed to depart with an adult tickets selection of books instead of the two allowed by age ( This was before seatbelts )

I had the apparently usual hassle at primary and junior school ( age 4-11 UK ) with teachers insisting that because my peers couldn't read/understand something, then I was obviously lying or cheating. My mum "had words", and they left me alone, after proving that yes, I read, I read fast, I understand what I'm reading, and can remember what i've read - years later. I eventually had an awesome teacher who lent me his own copies of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and encouraged my love of reading.

I think my most humiliating reading related incident was a reading test at age six where I mispronounced grotesque. It came out " grottys kew ". It was a combination of embarrassment that I pronounced it wrong and annoyance that they hadn't expected me to know what it meant.

Like others, I'm a terrible book hoarder. I left home at nineteen with a suitcase of clothes, a bag of other stuff and six large boxes of books. I now have a small library - which was my main ambition in life as a child. I'm not sure how many books I have. That excuse works with my boyfriend and I'm sticking to it. I'm working through scanning the barcodes in with "Delicious Library" - a session usually ends when I start reading something I should be scanning. For quite a few years my boyfriend and I lived in a studio apartment while saving for the house, I had really limited storage and got into the habit of only keeping books I would re-read, and farming some of the others out to parents / friends / siblings who I could reclaim them off. All my other discards went to an Oxfam bookshop next to where I worked. However, as I'd go in once a month with a carrier bag full of discards - but come out every other day with three or four books that just needed to be taken home, the overall book count was still incrementing.

The book thing gets annoying when travelling. I travelled to India with my job twice last year, and seriously weighed up the pro's and cons of more books versus more clothes in my luggage. This choice was made simpler when I was advised I could claim next day laundry services on my expenses. In september i bought a Sony Reader - PRS-505. I love it very much. It means I can now buy smaller handbags, as i no longer have to fit a large hardback in there. Sadly I now spend twice as much on books - most in dead tree, and some in electron.

Do other folks re-read things? I remember plot / characters / main lumps of story years later, but I do love to re-read most books if i enjoyed them. I find it rather comforting. The downside to the borrowing from library is the requirement to give the things back.

protege
04-05-2009, 07:16 PM
Teachers like that kill the school experience for so many kids. "Oh, you did better than I think someone should do on this test, you must be a CHEATER!"

And then we wonder why kids don't like or respect their teachers. There's too many like this around.

That's *exactly* why I hated school. Too often, the teachers (and I went to a Catholic grade school) were bitter old nuns. They seemed upset that they chose to give their lives to "the man upstairs," and were upset that they hadn't gone anywhere. (Not trying to slam anyone here, OK?) As such, they were usually nasty to their students, and then couldn't understand why said students didn't respect them. Also, in many of those classes, if you tried to bring up another point of view, they'd get pissed. Everything had to follow their instructions...no opposing viewpoints allowed :rolleyes:

Then there was my public school experience. During that time, I was told that I'd never amount to anything, simply because I didn't pay attention in reading. Sorry, but I'd taught myself to read quite well by first grade. I don't give a damn about the exploits of Dick and Jane :p

Didn't stay at that school long--that was my last year. That instance, plus some things that my principal said, calling me an idiot, IIRC, caused my parents to pull me from that place. Oh, and then there's the question my dad had asked. Keep in mind that it was 1982, and he was asking about their computer literacy program. The answer? "Well, we got burned on our home-ec, so we aren't going to introduce computers."

Call me crazy, but what the hell does either have to do with each other? Granted, my computer education in Catholic school didn't happen until 6th grade :confused:, and even then there were problems. Call me crazy, but how does working on 20-year-old TRS terminals help prepare me for a PC or Apple-based world? I simply couldn't come home, and try out what we'd learned that day. Sure the *concepts* were the same, but the *commands* to implement them weren't!

AriRashkae
04-05-2009, 08:30 PM
OMG my fantasy bar!! I'd bring in books to swap!
Will the snacks be "whatever you feel like making, or here's a bag of peanuts?"

Pizza. :D With a binder of local places that do take-out.

JoitheArtist
04-05-2009, 10:00 PM
Do other folks re-read things? I remember plot / characters / main lumps of story years later, but I do love to re-read most books if i enjoyed them. I find it rather comforting. The downside to the borrowing from library is the requirement to give the things back.

The only books I don't re-read are the ones I didn't like. I've been known to pick up a book and re-read just a chapter or two because that's the "flavor" I want right at the moment. Some books actually get better once the job of following the main plot is out of the way: my fav example of this is Gaudy Night, by Dorothy Sayers. The main whodunnit plot is fine, but it's not the best part of the book, and once you know who did it and don't have to follow that anymore, the other stuff comes out much clearer.

ArcticChicken
04-06-2009, 04:34 PM
Do other folks re-read things? I remember plot / characters / main lumps of story years later, but I do love to re-read most books if i enjoyed them. I find it rather comforting. The downside to the borrowing from library is the requirement to give the things back.

I was so confused when I realized there are people who don't like to reread books. They'll tell me it's because they already know what's going to happen, and all I can think is "And your point is.....?" This especially confuses me when they're people who'll re-watch a movie five or six times.

I've been known to pick up a book and re-read just a chapter or two because that's the "flavor" I want right at the moment. Some books actually get better once the job of following the main plot is out of the way

I have this thing about finishing even bad novels. I find it amazingly difficult to put a book down permanently, even when I hate it. Once I read 4 and 4/5 books out of a five book series that I stopped really enjoying somewhere in book 2 before I could put it down and walk away. The only books I don't need to read all of are a few of my very favorites that I've read 10 or 12 times, those I can read a chapter here and there.

The only book I've enjoyed that doesn't get better on a reread is The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch. And even then it's really good, it's just better when you have no idea what's happening. If I ever get my hands on a technology that can erase memories, the first thing I'm gonna do is erase my memory of the specifics of that book and read it again.

LingualMonkey
04-06-2009, 04:47 PM
My issue with rereading is making time for it. There are so many things I want to read for the first time that I sometimes have a hard time justifying a reread.

That said, there are a half dozen or so books I read EVERY year. I should find my copy of 1984...I'm overdue on that one.

EricKei
04-06-2009, 05:14 PM
I love re-reading my favorite books. I always find something "new" (especially if it's been a while since the last time) -- Sometimes, it really is a part of the text that I had just glossed over in the past and didn't really "read"; other times, it's something I'd seen before, but had forgotten. I used to do that with the first four books of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy (the 5th book doesn't count, sorry :p), as they, above all, have been my annual treat. I get it with LoTR, as well, but it's considerably more dense, in a lot of ways, so it's understandable.

I had the same issue in my parochial (Catholic) high school -- I actually have seen (and had) teachers saying that a person's interpretation of a given work (i.e., their OPINION) was "wrong". Keep in mind that this applied to tests and papers, as well. It didn't matter how well your position was backed up; if it differed to far from "canon"/the proscribed view at that school, it was incorrect, and was graded accordingly.

I will have to side with the English lit prof from my last post on that matter: "Any teacher who has ever told you that is crazy!"

Ironclad Alibi
04-08-2009, 02:55 AM
Do other folks re-read things? I remember plot / characters / main lumps of story years later, but I do love to re-read most books if i enjoyed them. I find it rather comforting.

I reread books occasionally. Sometimes I don't have a choice. If I open The Adolescence of P-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adolescence_of_P-1) I'm going to be rereading it. I just can't put it down. The thing that hinders rereading books for me is that I have too many I haven't read. Of course, mixups do happen. I once started reading a book and was half through it before I realized I had read it before. I finished it because it was a good book.

I remember for a while back in the 4th grade, I was reading a book a day. Most of them were by Robert Heinlein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Heinlein). I was never discouraged from reading, or told I couldn't read anything. My wife is also an avid reader. She was reading Thomas Costain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Costain) novels in her pre-teens.

zzapp the witch
04-08-2009, 04:38 AM
God, I love you guys.

Tigress
04-08-2009, 06:29 AM
I almost wouldn't need the printout to read Jabberwocky. I always got compliments when I would read things aloud for class. I'm told I was the most understandable and interesting of the people in my class, because I read like I'm familiar with the work, even if I've never seen it before.

This reminds me: My husband can recite "Jabberwocky" from memory. :D

Jetfire
04-08-2009, 01:07 PM
/waves his hand. "Another bookworm here."

I've been reading since I was 2 or 3 years old. My neighbour used to joke a bit (pleasant jokes not nasty ones) about my habit of sitting in the snowbank next to her driveway, reading a book while waiting for the school bus. And I do occasionally do the walk and read. (I also read in restaurants if I'm eating alone).

If I recall correctly, I was reading the likes of the Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Tom Swift, Bobbsey Twins, Trixie Beldon, Boxcar Children and so forth by the time I hit Grade 3 and I'd exhausted the Elementary school library by the time I finished grade 5.

In Grade 6 and 7 I was tilting heavily into Sci Fi, including my first readings of Clark, Asimov, Wells and Verne. I was also jumping between the adult fiction and teen fiction in the town's library. Three Investigators, Ghost Squad, Susan Cooper's works (like the Dark is Rising), Anne McCaffrey, Piers Anthony and Poul Anderson all entered my reading lists around that time. For my French Immersion clases, we had to read some novels in french, so I tended to read French translations (or in Verne's case, updated originals) of classic Sci Fi, including 20,000 leagues and Journey to the Centre of the Earth and the Time Machine.

By High School, I was in the adult section of the library almost all the time, only dropping back to YA for old favorites I loved to read/reread (which I still do occasionally; I didn't discover Duane's Wizardry series until University).

I was lucky too in that my teachers didn't give me a hard time for my reading (partly, I suspect in hindsite because my mom was a Teacher herself and the Union rep for the district for a number of years when I was growing up). My work never slacked, even when I had my nose deep in a book; my physics teacher often jokes how he would get stuck trying to outline a problem, so he'd call on me to solve it. I'd point out the mistake / finish the solution, and go back to my reading.

Now, my reading has slowed a little, but it can go in spurts too; if something really grabs me and/or I ahve time, I'll read from dawn to dawn. (like I almost did reading a book recently; finished a 500 pager in 1 day). I have no idea how big my own library is, but it's probably nearing a thousand+ (not counting the 3k comic books I have). My to-read pile is never empty and at the moment I've got 4-5 books started. (Jim Butcher's "Turncoat" just interrupted the queue and jumped to the front. :) )

ArcticChicken
04-08-2009, 05:59 PM
(Jim Butcher's "Turncoat" just interrupted the queue and jumped to the front. :) )

Ooh, I didn't know he had a new one out.

Damn, my local branch doesn't have a copy. Oh, well, the turnaround time on holds is pretty good. I'll have it in a day or two.

Is it bad that I have my library card number memorized so I don't have to pull it out to place a hold?

JoitheArtist
04-08-2009, 06:49 PM
AUGH, I can't afford more books right now! But...but...I love the Dresden books....waaaaaaant....

AriRashkae
04-08-2009, 06:50 PM
Is it bad that I have my library card number memorized so I don't have to pull it out to place a hold?

Nope. I amaze anyone around when I do that at the local library. :lol:

Alpha Strike
04-08-2009, 08:22 PM
She pulled me out of the classroom, and screamed at me in the hallway that I CHEATED! I cried. She took this as a sign of guilt.

I'm also glad to hear that your mother stood up for you, especially given your age. Many years before I met her, my girlfriend had a similar experience like this in college. The one difference is that she did NOT cry and her professor took THAT as a sign of guilt. :confused: No, I don't understand it either.





I'm working through scanning the barcodes in with "Delicious Library" - a session usually ends when I start reading something I should be scanning. For quite a few years my boyfriend and I lived in a studio apartment while saving for the house, I had really limited storage and got into the habit of only keeping books I would re-read, and farming some of the others out to parents / friends / siblings who I could reclaim them off.

Curse you! That program looks like something I must have! :D I hope it's as good as the description sounds.



The thing that hinders rereading books for me is that I have too many I haven't read. Of course, mixups do happen. I once started reading a book and was half through it before I realized I had read it before. I finished it because it was a good book.


Me too! I'm constantly finding books that I want to buy from Amazon or borrow from the local library and I have to remind myself that I've got a whole bookshelf at home of unread books.



Ooh, I didn't know he had a new one out.

Damn, my local branch doesn't have a copy. Oh, well, the turnaround time on holds is pretty good. I'll have it in a day or two.



Butcher's latest has gotten some pretty positive reviews. When I saw it on sale at Barnes/Nobles I was tempted to buy, but it's hard to justify spending the money when the library has 6 copies in circulation. Of course, I'm number 18 on the list to get those, but I'm patient... I can wait! *twitch*

Argabarga
04-10-2009, 07:33 AM
I remember my 10th grade English teacher taking my copy of The Andromeda Strain from me because I was reading it in class instead of the assigned text.

KabeRinnaul
04-10-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm another big reader. Never done the reading as I walk or in the shower, but definitely at meals and instead of the assigned reading in class. I still do, for that matter. And have been in trouble for it, too.

I was at at least a 12th grade level by 4th grade, and pretty much always reading as a kid. By the end of elementary school I'd pretty well exhausted the school library and most of the city library, finishing off the latter in junior high. Eventually in grade school I wound up reading my sister's Babysitter Club books, simply because I had nothing else to read.

This is in pretty stark contrast to my sister herself, who generally responds to my books with "Ewww, why are you reading that?" I'm pretty sure I read more of her BSC books than she did, but a large part of that is probably her discovering Judge Judy, Springer, and their ilk.

Off-topic - My sister is also a ridiculous EW, and I'd like to apologize ahead of time to anyone who ever has to serve her.

Anyway. I do reread pretty much anything I own aside from the more painful English assignments. Thus far that's included... well, pretty much all of them aside from The Once and Future King.

And I also write, and I've completed a NaNoWriMo along with a few short stories, but I never finish my editing.

JoitheArtist
04-10-2009, 05:39 PM
And I also write, and I've completed a NaNoWriMo along with a few short stories, but I never finish my editing.

A fellow Wrimo!! Yay! :) I'm a 5 year NaNo vet, with several completed but unedited novels. :) Currently falling behind on Script Frenzy but having fun with it. :)

SorchaMochrie
04-14-2009, 06:15 AM
And I also write, and I've completed a NaNoWriMo along with a few short stories, but I never finish my editing.

A fellow Wrimo!! Yay! :) I'm a 5 year NaNo vet, with several completed but unedited novels. :) Currently falling behind on Script Frenzy but having fun with it. :)


You mean you have stories that need to be read by someone who can point out when you've used the same adjective three times in a paragraph? Stories that need someone to point out when the wrong character name is used? Stories that need someone to read through them and say that this paragraph may be better after this other paragraph, and you don't need that sentence at all? :wave:


I LOVE doing that. I really can't write original stories, but when my husband writes articles for his friends e-mag I'm always editing for him. I find basic mistakes in regular printed novels all the time.

So I volunteer to edit!

Geek King
04-14-2009, 06:56 PM
AUGH, I can't afford more books right now! But...but...I love the Dresden books....waaaaaaant....

<Twisting the spork>

Butcher's doing a signing in Dayton tomorrow night* within five minutes of my workplace. Some friends and I are going to meet him and get our copies signed. :love:

I haven't been this excited since I met Phil and Kaja Foglio at Origins. :D

*At Books & Co. at the Green (Exit 10 off I-675). Need a receipt to prove you bought it there, and they had copies still for sale as of last night.

JoitheArtist
04-14-2009, 09:07 PM
<Twisting the spork>

Butcher's doing a signing in Dayton tomorrow night* within five minutes of my workplace. Some friends and I are going to meet him and get our copies signed. :love:


*twitch* *twitch*

I hate you now.

:lol:

But not as much as I hated my dad when he bought three Redwall books for the library system he worked for in towns that DID NOT READ, got them signed by Brian freakin' JACQUES, and didn't get me a signed Redwall book!

Not that I'm still bitter or anything...

ArcticChicken
04-15-2009, 12:30 AM
Butcher's doing a signing in Dayton tomorrow night* within five minutes of my workplace. Some friends and I are going to meet him and get our copies signed. :love:

I haven't been this excited since I met Phil and Kaja Foglio at Origins. :D


....I hate you.


Also, the stupid library hasn't given me my book. I think something got borked in the shipping process, because almost all the copies say 'being transferred between libraries' and have since I place the hold. It normally doesn't take more than 3 days, so even allowing for the weekend it should be here. I just realized Friday was a city holiday, so that explains that.

On the plus side, I just got an email coupon for Borders, so I'll just pick up a copy in the airport on my way to Florida. I'll need something to do during my 3 1/2 hour layover in Atlanta.

Bliss
04-15-2009, 01:51 AM
Btw, while we're at the "OMG I'm not the only one!" Phase, please tell me I am not the only one... I don't tend to do this as much now (specially as it's harder with electronic books, 98% of what i read now), but, I used to read a little into the book, and then read the last page, just the last page, and continue with the book...

I found it didn't ruin the end for me, in fact I enjoyed it more as I wondered how it would build up to the end, and I would enjoy the construction process.

bookishfreak
04-15-2009, 01:55 AM
I do that too Bliss!! I thought I was the only one!

Teskeria
06-23-2009, 05:28 PM
I have the misfortune of remembering EVERYTHING I read. And I am over 40 (sigh).
In kindergarden we would go to the school library. I would grab a chapter book. Well my teacher sees me going to check out ( I think it was either Nancy Drew or Trixie Belden - we were only allowed 1 at a time from the school library) and grabs it. Tells me it is too hard for me and to get a K-1 book. When I told her I COULD read it, she called me a liar. I told my mom and she sets up a meeting with Ms. B and the principal. Teacher insists I am a liar and 'no 6 year old can read chapter books'.
So my mom asks ' did you ask her to read it to you?'
Teacher: 'Of course not'
Principal reaches over and pulls one of his books off the shelf. Opens it randomly and asks me to read aloud. (now his face shows he doesn't expect me to be able to, but at least he asked). So I read it to him, sounding out the words I don't know. I finish the entire page and the principal asks me to tell him what it was about. My explaination was as good as the average 10 year old could give on (psycology?) the subject, considering I only read one page (I tried to read more while they were talking, but Mom handed the book back to the principal)
Teacher was sent from the office with an "I'll meet with you later'. Mom turns to the principal and says 'She's been reading Nancy Drew and the like since she was about 2 1/2. You ARE changing her classroom, aren't you?"
End result - new teacher, noted in my records that I read WAYYYY above grade level, and no more problems with what I check out.
I was known in my city as BookWorm (People actually called me that and BW & I still answer to BW today sometimes). I would walk everywhere reading. My Mom said I must have some kind of guidance system, as I never looked up from the book, stopped automatically for street crossing and NEVER got tripped by the unexpected feet shoved in front of me. Sometimes the kids would get right in my path and I automatically moved away.
I read my schoolbooks the first week, read in every class, and maintained an A average (except high school math - hate math).
Last year I found a great book I read 30 years ago. Took me 20 years to find a copy. Magnificat - cant remember the author, just moved from a two bedroom into a one bedroom and still have 6 or 7 boxes of books to unpack (half my stuff was books). Book about the controversy in heaven when a cat arrives with the halo of a maximum saint. what to do, why does a cat have the halo, how did it earn it, Satan's efforts to use it to cause trouble, ect... A book written by a bishop that is NOT preachy. really great book. oop though.

I read about 300 pages per hour. a normal (work)day's reading for me is about 6-7 books. Used to be able to read 8-10, but have slowed down a bit. hard to find books I enjoy that I haven't read. Can't stand the modern, no-plot, let's rely on sex and blood mysteries for one thing.

Readers are the best people - lol.

LadyAndreca
06-23-2009, 06:17 PM
*jots 'Magnificat' on a post-it note, and resolves once again to try to actually go to the public library*

Elspeth
06-23-2009, 07:22 PM
Bliss, I do the same thing. Read a chapter or two, flip to the end. I do it a lot while reading. Hubby laughes when I do it

I remember in the 2nd or 3rd grade, we had to keep track of how much we read during the week. Most kids read barely 300 pages, me 3000.

I also have the habit of reading about 5 books at once. One in each room. I can't wait till we go camping this weekend so I can catch up on my reading a little.

And I thank you guys for pointing me in the direction of the Dresden books. Finished the first one in about 3 days and have the second one and the first one of his other series waiting till this weekend.

Also I really need to reread Good Omens *now I wonder where it got to*

Is there a windows verison of Delicious Library? or something that would be like it. And does it work on DVDs? I have a little collection that really needs to be cataloged

Calie
06-24-2009, 01:31 AM
I remember in the 2nd or 3rd grade, we had to keep track of how much we read during the week. Most kids read barely 300 pages, me 3000.

I also have the habit of reading about 5 books at once. One in each room. I can't wait till we go camping this weekend so I can catch up on my reading a little.


300pages? In middle school they made us read 400pg over about a month. When I turned in my (many many) sheets, I was up to 18,000 or so - and I hadn't logged everything.

I almost always have multiple books going at once...one at work, one in the bedroom, one in the bathroom...and I never have less than 3shelves of unread books to choose from :)

Tigress
06-24-2009, 06:33 AM
Heh. All this talk about going to the library brings this to mind:

I keep getting "invited" to go to Dragon*Con, but I can't justify a trip that expensive, especially considering that I go to Anime Weekend Atlanta two weeks later. Plus, for the past three years, I've been recruited to help with Librari-Con (a free one-day convention at a library in Fayetteville, NC) on the same weekend.

First year, I was asked to help with the origami table, since I was making super-elaborate things and the organizer wanted me to show the kids what I was doing. Last year, I was asked to run the table. This year, I'm hosting a costuming panel as a guest.

Now, I'm not sure I ever want to go to Dragon*Con, because using anime and manga to get kids into the library is such a cool idea and I like doing whatever I can to support it! I almost wish I lived closer to the library so I could help with their Teen Services program and host costuming workshops.

Imogene
06-24-2009, 07:48 AM
The 14 year old received an F- in English on her last progress report. This is a girl who always has a book on her. She simply will not do the work.


Lump me in that category. I love to read, but, if I'm doing it as an assignment, I just can't make myself do it. It's torturous to have to read for a reason. I'm not necessarily looking for symbolism as I read a book. I tend to read it, put it down, and a few hours later, everything goes 'click' in my head, and I see what the author was intending, and also things he didn't intend.

*L* That's nothing, I have 2 preferred translations (Pinsky for emotion, Sayers for preserving the original rhyme scheme) of the Divine Comedy.
*attempting to restrain further book-geekiness on her part*
Related geekiness: The statue, The Thinker, was originally going to be named, 'The Artist', a reference to Dante pondering the gates of hell.

but, I used to read a little into the book, and then read the last page, just the last page, and continue with the book...

Never with a book, but, movies? Video games? Sure (OMG, Spoilers!) It's not the destination, it's the journey. Sure, you got to the end, but how? Show your work (Yeah, yeah, I hated it in my math class when I had to... I could make multiple intuitive leaps in a single step during math problems, and get them right.)

EricKei
06-24-2009, 12:03 PM
Lump me in that category. I love to read, but, if I'm doing it as an assignment, I just can't make myself do it. It's torturous to have to read for a reason. I'm not necessarily looking for symbolism as I read a book. Same here. The thing is, I wound up studying English in college (my focus was more on linguistics than lit, however). I actually *hate* dissecting stories for "meaning", intended or otherwise. I feel that, if it's not interesting to read, it's not worth reading, no matter how "deep" it's supposed to be. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment.

Alpha Strike
06-24-2009, 10:24 PM
I don't tend to do this as much now but, I used to read a little into the book, and then read the last page, just the last page, and continue with the book...

I found it didn't ruin the end for me, in fact I enjoyed it more as I wondered how it would build up to the end, and I would enjoy the construction process.

Add me to the list - I do this at times both because I'm curious and I know I'll forget the ending within 15 minutes of going back to the part of book I had actually reached. :D

Bliss, I do the same thing. Read a chapter or two, flip to the end. I do it a lot while reading.

I also have the habit of reading about 5 books at once. One in each room. I can't wait till we go camping this weekend so I can catch up on my reading a little.

And I thank you guys for pointing me in the direction of the Dresden books. Finished the first one in about 3 days and have the second one and the first one of his other series waiting till this weekend.


Is there a windows verison of Delicious Library? or something that would be like it. And does it work on DVDs? I have a little collection that really needs to be cataloged

First, glad to see another Dresden fan. Good stuff! I have a few minor issues with the books, but overall I'm really digging the series even though he's up to book 8 or 9 (?).

Secondly, I also enjoy "littering" my household with different books I'm reading. I get a lot of reading done in the bathroom (Yeah, it's what guys do!) and so I'll leave different tittles scattered in each of them, as well as by the bed. It can sometimes get confusing when I go from one book to a second to a third and then back again but I'm never short on reading material!

Finally, I'm going to be picking up Delicious Library for my Mac - from what I can remember, it can scan pretty much anything that has a SKU/UPC and is in its library or is searchable online. If my memory doesn't fail me, I can drop you a quick note once I've had time to use it.

300pages? In middle school they made us read 400pg over about a month. When I turned in my (many many) sheets, I was up to 18,000 or so - and I hadn't logged everything.



I have to know: how could you (especially in middle school) have time to slog through 18000 pages in a month? In doing the math you'd have to be reading at an amazing rate:

There are roughly 43200 minutes in a month, 1/3 of which would go towards sleeping, eating and bathing. That leaves roughly 28,800 minutes, meaning you'd have to devote half of all your waking time to just reading.

crazylegs
06-24-2009, 10:29 PM
I read about 300 pages per hour. .

A page every 12 seconds? Wow, that's impressive!

Calie
06-25-2009, 02:40 AM
Secondly, I also enjoy "littering" my household with different books I'm reading. I get a lot of reading done in the bathroom (Yeah, it's what guys do!) and so I'll leave different tittles scattered in each of them, as well as by the bed. It can sometimes get confusing when I go from one book to a second to a third and then back again but I'm never short on reading material!

Heh, I'm a girl but that doesn't stop me :P Oh, and the books I leave around I try to make different genres, that way it's less confusing. Let me tell you, reading 2 romance novels at once is impossible (they are all way too alike).


I have to know: how could you (especially in middle school) have time to slog through 18000 pages in a month? In doing the math you'd have to be reading at an amazing rate:

There are roughly 43200 minutes in a month, 1/3 of which would go towards sleeping, eating and bathing. That leaves roughly 28,800 minutes, meaning you'd have to devote half of all your waking time to just reading.

1. The 1month / 18K pages may not be exact (it may have been 6weeks).
2. I usually went to a "academically challenging" private school, this was when I was in public school for a semester (thank you mom for taking a sabbatical and dragging us with you); which meant:
a: Taking 1 less class (World Civ wasn't offered at the school) which was replaced by a "study period" which I did by myself in the library (seriously, they just let me do whatever I want...which was to read anything I could find).
b: The rest of my classes were easy and light on hwk.
3. I also had more time to read: bus rides and no TV at home
4. They didn't specify what types of books to read (whatever I could find, mostly below my reading level)
5. I read really fast.

So no, not half my waking time...but probably a quarter of it...

Severen13
06-25-2009, 03:20 AM
Another bookworm here.

It makes me sad to hear people say that they hate to read. I just don't get it. I really don't. :shrug:

I started out with Dr. Suess and Berenstein Bears, then worked up to Beverly Cleary and Judy Blume. It wasn't long (we're talking grade school) before I got my grubby little hands my dad's Stephen King novels and my mother's mystery/detective novels.

I just finished a great mystery called "Starvation Lake" and am now reading "The Manchurian Candidate". After that I'm going to read "Dearly Devoted Dexter".

But thankfully I've discovered the wonders of PaperBackSwap.com. I've just requested a few more books for myself and a few for my mother as a surprise because I'm such a good daughter. :lol:

dalesys
06-25-2009, 03:31 AM
I was incarcerated for 12 years for reading...














In the State Childrens Prison...

AKA: The Idiot-Creational System.

My mother wanted to register jail me for first grade...

I was suspicious, but she said, "Just come see what it's like..."

There was a big table covered in Little Golden Books. I dove in caroling: "Enlist me! Now!"

I never saw those books again...

Tigress
06-25-2009, 04:08 AM
Same here. The thing is, I wound up studying English in college (my focus was more on linguistics than lit, however). I actually *hate* dissecting stories for "meaning", intended or otherwise. I feel that, if it's not interesting to read, it's not worth reading, no matter how "deep" it's supposed to be. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment.

I hated it myself. If the book fails to hold my attention, I don't care about how the flower in the parlor is symbolic of the post-war hedonism of early 20th-century deconstructionism. I'll reach for Stephen King and read about a telekinetic schoolgirl getting even at the prom.

In fact, I only read a handful of Cleary and Blume titles because I didn't find them interesting. Part of the reason was my "reading extension"* teacher insisted on reading them to us and yelled at me for not paying attention to her. I didn't see the point in listening to her when I could easily read it to myself in two days.

_______________________

*Translation: Stupid busywork. It was meant to enhance students' reading skills, but I didn't need it since I already read at a college level.

JoitheArtist
06-25-2009, 04:08 PM
In fact, I only read a handful of Cleary and Blume titles because I didn't find them interesting.

I read some of them, but mostly because my reading skills far outstripped my emotional maturity at one point (right around age 11) and so I wasn't ready for the books that I COULD read, and was horribly bored by books that were still appropriate.

Years later I discovered the Redwall series, and cursed my childhood library for not having them. Those would have been *perfect.* Sigh.

Fortunately, that period of my life only lasted about a year. Then I launched into reading stuff like Moby Dick (which I LOVED), Last of the Mohicans, Brothers Karamazov (another favorite), etc.

ExiledV20
06-25-2009, 10:34 PM
considering readin Paul Clifford by Edward Bulwer-Lytton....but decided against it...my brain might not be able to handle so much overblown prose. ;)


For overblown prose that is extremely entertaining (and devoid of pseudo-Lovecraftian pretention :D), I highly recommend the works of Jack Vance. If you can find a collection of his "Tales of the Dying Earth" or "The Demon Princes" saga (good scifi, that last one) you are in for a treat.

Dreamstalker
06-26-2009, 05:37 PM
Sure, you got to the end, but how? Show your work (Yeah, yeah, I hated it in my math class when I had to... I could make multiple intuitive leaps in a single step during math problems, and get them right.)
Have you heard of something called "Interactive Math Program"? I was an unfortunate part of the pilot for that program here in my town, and their focus was on showing your work, even if the end answer was completely wrong (which most were).

I would show my work, but still get marked down as my answer was "wrong"...it was mathematically correct, but apparently they didn't want that :confused:
I hated it myself. If the book fails to hold my attention, I don't care about how the flower in the parlor is symbolic of the post-war hedonism of early 20th-century deconstructionism.
Ditto. I was reading at a ninth-grade level when I was in fifth grade, my English teacher then loved it and didn't care what I read as long as I could do the work on what was assigned.

High school...GAH. To this day I despise The Great Gatsby...it wasn't interesting to me in the least and the teacher accused me of plagiarism for the assigned essay just because I had help writing it. Despite my raft of proof to the contrary, she still failed me for the semester and I was never able ("allowed") to appeal.

I think I've already posted about my senior-year English class (the ONE class that was preventing me from graduating on time, so I had to take a fifth year just for that)...it actually reached the status of in-game running joke in the RPG group I was part of.

ETA: Somewhere, I stumbled across a psychoanalytic essay on Ghostbusters...heavy on the Freudian stuff and funny as hell. Some things were just not meant to be deconstructed that far.

Andara Bledin
06-26-2009, 07:17 PM
Mmm.... books... nom-nom-nom...

I counted, once, and figured that by the time I hit high school, I'd easily read more than 1000 books, and nothing with less than 50 pages counted. I was one of those kids that would read personal books in class. But I never got in trouble for it, 'cause I could divide my attention. Although, more recently, I have been known to miss my bus stop because I was reading.

My junior high (6-8 grades) had a thing they did every year to encourage reading. Basically, you'd read, turn in sheets for every 100 pages (or so, higher grades required more pages per sheet), and at the end of every week for a month, they'd pull half a dozen sheets turned in that week, and the name pulled got to grab a handful of change (including a few dollar and half-dollar coins) from a jar. All three years, it was me and one other kid, and he had really long fingers (he was a bean-pole) and could grab a huge amount of change each time. They wouldn't let me have him grab for me; but I tried! :p

Butcher has made me buy hardbacks. I almost never buy hardbacks, but I buy his, 'cause I just don't want to wait. The Dresden series is a lot of pulpy fun, but the Alera series does so many things right that I always gush when talking about it. :D
ETA: Somewhere, I stumbled across a psychoanalytic essay on Ghostbusters...heavy on the Freudian stuff and funny as hell. Some things were just not meant to be deconstructed that far.
Heh. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. :p

^-.-^

EricKei
06-26-2009, 11:30 PM
Have you heard of something called "Interactive Math Program"? I was an unfortunate part of the pilot for that program here in my town, and their focus was on showing your work, even if the end answer was completely wrong (which most were).
I apparently wound up in elementary school just as our system was beginning to phase out "New Math" (I've never actually figured out the distinction between that and "standard"). Naturally, the teachers went right back to normal math and taught as if we had been using "normal" math all along...I think this is one of the major contributing factors to my loathing of the subject. Well, that, and one weird/semi-traumatic incident when I was a yung'un...I was out sick one day when the concept of "greater than-less than" was introduced to us for the very first time (as I said, YOUNG). When I came back the next day, the teacher gave us a quiz...and refused to explain what those funny-looking > and < signs on the paper meant, so I just had to pick answers at random....Suffice it to say, I didn't do well on the quiz, and the teacher could not comprehend why that would be the case...

ArcticChicken
06-27-2009, 02:45 AM
I counted, once, and figured that by the time I hit high school, I'd easily read more than 1000 books, and nothing with less than 50 pages counted.

Wait, you can remember how many books you've read? Or did you work out some kind of formula?

Dreamstalker
06-27-2009, 08:11 PM
Heh. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. :p
Oh, it had the muses laughing for days (the analysis of what remains of the Fort Detmerring sequence was hysterical).

I did find something similar on OverthinkingIt (http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/09/the-real-symbolic-and-imaginary-ghostbusters/), but the original essay circa 1994 (which took itself way too seriously) seems to have been lost forever.

A library near where I grew up in Montpelier was similar to the NYPL in terms of the looming stacks and a mildly creepy basement (fittingly, that's where all the "occult" books were and where I spent most of my time)...I loved the card catalog and became an unofficial librarian for awhile (I was probably the only 12-year-old who could decipher the dewey decimal system). The public library here was recently "remodeled" with fluorescent lighting and TBH it looks more like a chain bookstore. I miss the soft-ish lighting and dark little corners libraries had when I was a pup.

NotSoInnocent
06-28-2009, 03:03 AM
Ack! There are MORE of me!!!

I went to a Jewish preschool... for a whole 4 months. That's right. I was kicked out of a Jewish preschool . How did I manage that wondrous feat, you ask? Oh it was thrillingly easy:

I told the teacher that she skipped a word when she was reading "Goldilocks and the Three Bears". When she yelled at me in front of the rest of the kids that I "couldn't know that because just a stupid little kid"... I yanked the book out of her hand and proceeded to read three pages before she yanked it back and sent me to the principal's office.

The principal beat my butt with a wooden paddle "for lying about being able to read" and [I]then called my mother.

My darling mother (affectionately known as "Amazonian She-Bitch from HELL") ripped them both a new one after she sat me down in front of them and handed me that morning's newspaper to read to them.

I was almost 3 and was already waaaaaaaaay past the "Dick and Jane" books.

I got in trouble at school all the time for reading in class. However, I never made less than a B+ in any subject.

My lunches were spent in the school library and I used to skip boring high school classes to go to the library. The teachers finally stopped bothering asking where I went and would just call the school librarian to send me down if there was a test to take.

gremcint
06-28-2009, 05:11 AM
Have you heard of something called "Interactive Math Program"? I was an unfortunate part of the pilot for that program here in my town, and their focus was on showing your work, even if the end answer was completely wrong (which most were).


Let me go through the list of my educational experiences.

MY first semester of highschool 2 my of my teachers were retiring and a third was brand new to the school.

I was in the first group of students to go through the new curriculim which mean four years in a row all fo the courses were new to the teachers.

at my first college I was in the last group to ever take their old diploma program (private school that only offered ac ouple programs) and the first to take their new degree.

At the college I just finished I am in the second last group to take my program before they stop offering it.

The head of my program retired this year the same year I graduated.

yeah my education has involved a lot of firsts and lasts.


Dresden files rock. I had a friend who had a meeting with her parents and the principle because she read too much. That was the whole meeting it wasn't about her reading in class or about her not doing work it was just about her reading too much. Her father was like: so what?

ArcticChicken
06-28-2009, 05:41 AM
I was in the first group of students to go through the new curriculim which mean four years in a row all fo the courses were new to the teachers.

That right there is why I dropped out of highschool and got my GED.

I was kinda pissed when I discovered I didn't need anything I'd been taught since the seventh grade in order to pass the test.

Ghel
06-28-2009, 04:25 PM
I can’t believe I sat here and read 20 pages of this thread instead of eating breakfast, getting dressed, and generally getting on with my day. But you guys are all so awesome!

I gladly stand up and be counted as a fellow bibliophile!

I’ve never counted my books, but my guest bedroom doubles as a library. I’ve also got 5 boxes of paperbacks (mostly sci-fi, some fantasy) up in my attic that I was given by a friend that I’ve been meaning to go through and read.

The only book that I started reading and never finished was the second in the Gor series, Outlaw of Gor. I could understand the author saying that all women being slaves was a cultural anomaly, but when he tried to say that all women being slaves was how nature intended it, I couldn’t read any more.

Other than that, I finish every book I read, and I reread many of them. I have a stack of books on top of my bookshelf that is my “reading list.” I haven’t had a lot of time to read lately, but those are ones that I want to read soon, most of them from the 5 boxes that were given to me.

In addition to science fiction and fantasy, I also enjoy reading popularized science and philosophy, especially Richard Dawkins. I’ve read The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker each twice. I want to get A Devil’s Chaplain. I recently purchased On the Origin of Species, but I’m having trouble staying with it. The funny thing is I keep going back to it.

I’m so glad my high school had an honors program. I loved math classes. Doing a year’s worth of a math class each semester was awesome. The honors English classes were great, too, just not as memorable. The only classes I found boring were those that didn’t have an honors equivalent.

My college British Lit. teacher was awesome. He handed out 3x5 cards at the beginning of each class and asked us to write questions about the day’s discussion, which he would answer at the beginning of the next class. The most interesting question I asked was whether Chaucer’s Knight was intended to be a parody of contemporary mercenaries. That sparked a discussion that filled the rest of the hour.

Broomjockey
06-28-2009, 04:54 PM
This thread hasn't been about SCs for a while, so it's been moved to Off Topic.

Caveat Emptor
06-28-2009, 06:17 PM
"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

I got an Associates degree from a business college because I wanted to improve my resume. I already had a BA and an MLS. Some of my classmates would complain on how tough it was. *Life's* tough. And if you want to transfer to a 4-year after this, you better get your rear in gear, 'cause if you think *this* is tough, it's *nothing* compared to some (most?) 4-year schools out there.

My U/G freshman roommate wound up with a 1.8 GPA because of him pledging a fraternity and stumbling in drunk almost every night.

AdminAssistant
06-28-2009, 06:41 PM
I'll be working on reading all of this thread in sections, methinks. :D

My sister could read at 3. My great-aunts didn't believe my Mom when they saw Sis reading the comics. So they pulled out a random book for her to read, and she did. I could read at 4, not sure why I took a little longer, shorter attention span, Mom had more to do with two kids, etc. But I consistently read 2 or 3 grade levels above my actual grade and was thoroughly bored through most of elementary school, with the exception of math classes. I've never liked math, never been good at it. :shrug:

I don't do much "fun" reading nowadays. When I'm reading 200-350 pages a week for classes, and much of that dramatic criticism, theory, or philosophy...I don't want to read for fun. If I do read, it's something very light, like George Carlin, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, or Alan Alda. Or Dilbert books.

I do occasionally sit down with a play, just for the exercise of reading them. Reading dramatic work is very different than reading a novel, which is why it really irks me when dramatic literature courses are taught in English departments instead of Theatre departments. My favorite is Cyrano de Bergerac by Edmond Rostand, translation by Anthony Burgess (yes, that Anthony Burgess). Closer runner-ups: Ruy Blas and Hernani by Victor Hugo and Anthony by Alexandre Dumas, pere (I do love me some French Romantics). :D

EricKei
06-29-2009, 03:07 AM
...which is why it really irks me when dramatic literature courses are taught in English departments instead of Theatre departments. Perhaps both teach it -- the Theatre Dept wants people to understand the characters and how to ACT OUT the play. The English Dept wants you to understand every tiny little possible nuance -- preferably, the ones espoused by that particular teacher/school, system...and yes, if you have a valid point but you disagree with their view, you're WRONG. By doing so, English teachers see to it that many children will never want to read them again. :eek:

I used to loooooove reading. I should really get back into it in depth again. I couldn't tell you the last time I read the H2G2 "trilogy". I used to read it every single year at a minimum.

AdminAssistant
06-29-2009, 03:50 PM
In one of my classes, the students only had to read two plays: Oedipus Rex and Macbeth. After we read each of them, we watched a tape of a production (note: not films). Oedipus Rex at the Guthrie Theatre eons ago, and the RSC production of Macbeth with Ian McKellan and Judi Dench. I had one student who just whined that "I HATE Shakespeare! It's so boring!" After some discussion, sure enough, some lame-ass English teacher had bored her to tears doing an in-class read through of King Lear. These are the same people that perpetuate the myth that "Shakespeare" was William Shaxper, an illiterate actor and second-rate businessman from Stratford-upon-Avon. After reading the play, watching the film, and having a discussion, she told me, "Well, this wasn't boring at all!!" :D

There are classes that I've taken that deal with the specific structure of plays, how to read them, different modes of text analysis, what makes a 'good' play, etc. All of it with the realization that they are meant to be performed and heard, not read, and how the text tells you how to perform it.

And don't get me started on the people who call it "drama" or actually spell it "theater". That is a sign of someone with no professional experience that thinks that Oklahoma! is a really good musical.

earl colby pottinger
06-29-2009, 04:20 PM
The costs of books has forced me to move to electronic versions, notably all the free stuff on Baen and Gutserberg(sp) sites.

But the laptop really gets heavy after a two hour+ walk. I am now trying to decide on a Netbook to use for walking and reading. :)

EricKei
06-30-2009, 02:11 PM
. After reading the play, watching the film, and having a discussion, she told me, "Well, this wasn't boring at all!!" :D
What can I say -- I LOVE reading Shakespeare in the original Klingon :devil:

ecb: Might you mean Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page), perhaps? I love that site :D