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Kisa
11-23-2011, 04:17 AM
Long story short, I hung out with this guy a few times because I thought he seemed nice and new friends are always nice. He turned out to be an asshole why wanted to get me naked....fun. I told him I dont want to be around people who dont respect me and that I don't want to hang out with him anymore. He stopped talking to me....for 2 hours. Then he started texting again saying he just wants to be friends and he's sorry yada yada yada. Soon, he askes me over again. I say no, he flips out cussing at me and trying to make me feel like shit. I yelled back until he said "don't talk to me anymore". Ok, cool fine by me.

He texted back a few more hours later saying he loves me and he's sorry he's in a bad mood and he was hurt that I won't spend time with him because he loves me so much yada yada yada. Ok dude, I hardly know you so I doubt you "love" me. He soon started cussing and spewing insults again and it ended with "I don't wanna talk anymore".

This song and dance repeated about 6 times and finally ended with him saying, "I don't know why you take sick pleasure in pissing me off but you did a good job; I had better not hear from you for at least 3 days and after that I will talk to you again if you're lucky". I decided that wasn't working and moved to Plan B and ignored him. This isn't working. I got a shitload of texts in the morning along with call after call after call. Today, more calls, texts and a nasty message telling me to "pick up your fucking phone"!

Moving to Plan C, I called AT&T customer service to have his number blocked. Little did I know, the only way to block him is to add a secutiry feature to my plan for an extra $5 a month!!!!! So basicaly, I either have to deal with him blowing up my phone, spewing abuse until he gives up or cough up $60 a year to block the ass. Fun... Just what I need right now. Stress :rant:

MaggieTheCat
11-23-2011, 04:20 AM
I have never had to block anyone like that before, but can't you report him to the cops for harassment? It might be worth looking into your local laws, or calling the (non-emergency) police number to find out.

What a creep. Glad you're taking steps to get away from him. Stay safe and keep us updated.

Kisa
11-23-2011, 04:31 AM
I have never had to block anyone like that before, but can't you report him to the cops for harassment? It might be worth looking into your local laws, or calling the (non-emergency) police number to find out.

What a creep. Glad you're taking steps to get away from him. Stay safe and keep us updated.

It's kinda complicated... He's my best friend's cousin who just recently got out of jail for sexual assault. Everyone said he was innocent and he seemed nice so I started talking to him because he has no friends and he can't leave the house. Now my friend and many others hate him and no longer think he is as innocent as he claimed to be. I'm iffy about reporting him because, if I do, he will go straight back to jail and I'm not sure if my friend would be ok with that.

RayvenQ
11-23-2011, 04:32 AM
"You're an asshole, fuck off before i get someone to beat you to the ground"

I'd say that, plus you've already got a volounteer for this (aka me :D )

It's me
11-23-2011, 04:36 AM
. I'm iffy about reporting him because, if I do, he will go straight back to jail and I'm not sure if my friend would be ok with that.

Are you okay with being harrassed? Or possibly worse? Zero to bat-shit crazy in no time flat... won't take no for an answer... this guy bad news all around IMHO, and needs to be shut down before things escalate........

RayvenQ
11-23-2011, 05:03 AM
Yeah, best to try and cut him off at the pass, just because "everyone" thinks that he's innocent, there had to have been something about it that put him in jail, best to distance yourself from him really, while without the assholeish behaviour, I'd have given him the benefit of the doubt, it's the behaviour that tips t for me.

Mr Hero
11-23-2011, 05:10 AM
I'm going to have to agree with everyone else. Let him know that if he doesn't leave you alone that you will report him to the cops. You need to worry about your safety.

trailerparkmedic
11-23-2011, 05:10 AM
I'm iffy about reporting him because, if I do, he will go straight back to jail and I'm not sure if my friend would be ok with that.

Maybe creepy stalker dude should have thought about that before acting like a creepy stalker. And if your friend gets mad, tell him as much. "Man, it sucks for him that he was acting like an idiot and broke the law and the terms of his probation. Maybe he won't be such a creepy stalker dude when he gets out again."

OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS ARE NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. This is an important thing to keep in mind.

Kisa
11-23-2011, 05:19 AM
Thanks to you all, I have a plan thought up. I'm giving this until Friday. If he's still doing this shit, I'll send him one single text telling him I don't want him talking to me and if he continues harassing me, I will call the cops on him. If my friend gets mad, I'll say, "hey, I warned him; There was nothing else I could think to do, he blew off my warning and I followed through; I'm know he's your cousin and I'm sorry, but I can't deal with this sort of emotional abuse daily".

Redbeard
11-23-2011, 05:22 AM
It's kinda complicated... He's my best friend's cousin who just recently got out of jail for sexual assault. Everyone said he was innocent and he seemed nice so I started talking to him because he has no friends and he can't leave the house. Now my friend and many others hate him and no longer think he is as innocent as he claimed to be. I'm iffy about reporting him because, if I do, he will go straight back to jail and I'm not sure if my friend would be ok with that.

Report him. It's not a parole violation yet, but from his escalating reactions you need to make sure that it's out there. How much will it cost to change your number?

Food Lady
11-23-2011, 05:23 AM
Good plan, Kisa.

Talon
11-23-2011, 06:01 AM
I'm iffy about reporting him because, if I do, he will go straight back to jail...

Oh please, play him the world's smallest violin.
He chose to harass you, he can bloody well live with the consequences.


...and I'm not sure if my friend would be ok with that.

If he sees the texts you're getting and still gets mad at you, then he is no friend.

Kisa
11-23-2011, 06:02 AM
Just got a text reading, "I want you to come over friday or saturday; thats 3 days notice for you so do that; we'll talk and straighten shit out". A part of me wants to text back and say I dont want to see him ever but another part is sighing deeply because he's still acting like a spoiled little brat who can get whatever he wants.

"Are you free Friday?" = good; Asking someone if they want to do something and making sure it won't be inconveniant for them.
"I want you to come over...do that"= bad; Stating you want that person to do something without caring what they think and then telling them what to do.

notlovinit
11-23-2011, 06:22 AM
Kisa, I've had to report someone for telephone harassment and he won't get sent back to jail right away. What will happen is that you have to tell the guy you no longer want contact with him and save that text message. You will have to show the police that you told the guy that and that he continued to contact you further than saying "ok". They will call him and tell him not to contact you, but will not charge him. If he continues to contact you after the police have been contacted then you will have to report this to them and then they will charge him with harassment. Then when he goes to court for this the judge might also find him in violation of his parole/probation and either send him back to jail, assess him an additional fine, or extend his parole/probation.

You also might be able to find a way around the fee with AT&T. I know with Verizon when I went about blocking the number they said I had to pay a similar fee, but when I went online and logged into my account I found a place (after a lot of searching) where I could block up to 10 numbers for free for 3 months at a time.

Kagato
11-23-2011, 08:25 AM
Most important thing is to STICK BY YOUR DECISION. Don't let him push you around, don't let him guilt trip you, all he has been doing up until this point is playing mind games with you and you deserve FAR better than that.

I'd say do what notlovinit suggested, make one txt warning him that you want no further contact with him, keep the text, if he continues pestering you then follow up with the cops on grounds of harassment.

Also with regards to the $5 cost, depending on your budget it may be in your interests to invest in it even temporarily, if he circumvents it by phoning you on another number you can potentially get him in a LOT of trouble AFAIK

BexieSchmexie
11-23-2011, 11:05 AM
Text him back, once, and tell him you want nothing more to do with him, and that he is not to contact you again. Then ignore him and block him. You can do it without having to pay $5 extra on your plan. Go sign up for youmail.com. It's free, and you can block his number through there. Works like a charm.

RayvenQ
11-23-2011, 11:40 AM
Send him that text now, warning him to leave you alone, and as Kagato said, don't let him sucker you back in.

Canarr
11-23-2011, 01:43 PM
Kisa, I've had to report someone for telephone harassment and he won't get sent back to jail right away.

That's a pretty daring claim to make without knowing

a) the conditions of his parole
b) the local and state laws where Kisa lives

don't you think?

Still, I agree with the sentiment of sending one last text and then contacting the police if the harassment doesn't stop. And, no: don't meet him, don't visit him, don't talk to him on the phone. Cut all further contact, and leave it cut.

And possibly forward some of his texts to your friend, his cousin, so they know what he's been doing that prompted you to contact the police.

Mytical
11-23-2011, 02:04 PM
Kisa, every fiber of my being is shouting..whatever you do do not go to 'talk it out' with this guy unless you have like 12 friends with you. People you KNOW you can trust. Or in a very very public place IF at all. Cause..my creepy meter has went off the charts on this one.

FormerCallingCardRep
11-23-2011, 02:12 PM
Kisa, if you go to AT&T and explain that you are getting harrassing calls and texts they will change your number for free. Trust me, my Oldest has had troubles with an ex-boyfriend and we have had to change her number several time due to him getting her new number.

lupo pazzesco
11-23-2011, 02:12 PM
No. No. NO. DO NOT go meet this guy. I'm with mytical, every alarm bell just went off with that text. Send him the message NOW. Tell him "Please stop texting me, I do not feel comfortable talking to you and if you keep messaging me, I will go to the police."

Keep it to the point. And follow through. Please don't meet with him. Thinking about it, only causes this sick feeling of dread at the thought. Don't go. Mytical with all due respect, I don't even think she should go with friends, or in public, I don't think she should go at all.

Just my two cents. Good luck, Kisa

RayvenQ
11-23-2011, 02:18 PM
I'm with lupo, he's sounding like a guy who will be spurred on by even the tiniest shred of attention, hell, probably be spurred on by the lack of attention too, but cutting him off is, in my opinion, the best course of action.

Shangri-laschild
11-23-2011, 02:42 PM
Once you send him the text telling him not to talk to you anymore, no matter what he texts back, don't respond. This is very important. The police have less ground when dealing with him if you contact him any after that even in response. From what I understand, it can invalidate your statement for him to not talk to you anymore because you are continuing to converse with him. Not sure the technical bits about it other than it's important to not respond at all after you send the message.

Be very careful with a guy like this. It would not be a bad idea to tell him sooner than Friday, especially with him thinking the two of you will be hanging out (it sounds like he was convinced it's going to happen before even telling you) on Friday. Avoid hanging out with him at any point even in groups.

tropicsgoddess
11-23-2011, 02:58 PM
Kisa, do you have a smartphone? If so, there's apps that you can load where you can put his number on the block list. Some non-smartphones may have an internal reject list where it'll block the call but not necessarily the texting. Former Calling Card Rep has a good point in the call block with AT&T too. As for the creepy dude, don't meet him. Don't have a damn thing to do with him. Don't even respond to his texts and calls.

Zellie Crescent
11-23-2011, 03:06 PM
He's my best friend's cousin who just recently got out of jail for sexual assault. Everyone said he was innocent and he seemed nice so I started talking to him because he has no friends and he can't leave the house. Now my friend and many others hate him and no longer think he is as innocent as he claimed to be.

If I learned that anybody was in jail for sexual assault I wouldn't want anything to do with him at all, whatever you do do NOT go over his house just send the text and completely ignore him. If he keeps this shit up after that call the cops on his ass if he does go back to jail you should be happy, how do you know you're the only one he's harassing.

RecoveringKinkoid
11-23-2011, 03:17 PM
I'm actually more concerned that you are concerned about what this other friends thinks than you are your personal safety.

Why don't you think any better of yourself than that? I'm dead serious. You're being stalked here by a convicted sex offender...let's please use the proper terminology for what is going on here....and you're worried about angering some other person (who, by the way, keeps convicted sex offenders as friends)?

Also, the guy "has no friends"...you might consider why that is.

Do not text him or continue talking to him in any way. Not even to tell him to leave you alone. Every time you utter anything to him, you've just told a stalker/convicted sex offender that he is free to ignore what you have to say. That your "no" is meaningless.

Why do you think you have to be polite, be nice, and not piss anyone off? Why do you think you owe this guy any sort of "closure" or a chance to "clear the air"? You don't. You owe it to yourself not get get assaulted and stalked. Why are you protecting a convicted sex offender/stalker? That's exactly what you're doing. Think about it.

Your current attitude is making you a very, very good victim right now. Time to change it.

Call the cops. Start a file on him. If he goes to jail again, that's on him, not you.

Squeaksmyalias
11-23-2011, 03:19 PM
No. No. NO. DO NOT go meet this guy. I'm with mytical, every alarm bell just went off with that text. Send him the message NOW. Tell him "Please stop texting me, I do not feel comfortable talking to you and if you keep messaging me, I will go to the police."

Keep it to the point. And follow through. Please don't meet with him. Thinking about it, only causes this sick feeling of dread at the thought. Don't go. Mytical with all due respect, I don't even think she should go with friends, or in public, I don't think she should go at all.

Just my two cents. Good luck, Kisa

A thousand times this, do NOT go over there, do not go over with your friends do not meet him at all, do not tell him where you are and if anyone gives him that info flip out on them! They are not your friends if they do. He does not deserve any attention from you, do not be guilted by him, please please please be safe this is absolutely serious and you need to be safe.

Redbeard
11-23-2011, 07:28 PM
That's a pretty daring claim to make without knowing

a) the conditions of his parole
b) the local and state laws where Kisa lives

don't you think?

Still, I agree with the sentiment of sending one last text and then contacting the police if the harassment doesn't stop. And, no: don't meet him, don't visit him, don't talk to him on the phone. Cut all further contact, and leave it cut.


And if he IS violating his parole by acting in this fashion? It's his choice, he obviously doesn't deserve parole if he can't abide by the guidlines set.
This type of behavior sets off all sorts of alarms in my head. I've seen it before with friends being on the recieving end and it generally ends up with the offending individual becoming violent.
That may or may not be his case, but given that he is now sending you orders ("I want you to come over friday or saturday; thats 3 days notice for you so do that; we'll talk and straighten shit out" is exactly that) you need to be even more wary. I may be an alarmist here, but it's only because I've held friends when it came down and they needed a safe place to cry and wouldn't the rest of us break any limbs.
Above all, be safe.

dalesys
11-23-2011, 08:19 PM
Kisa, just remember WWJD.

(What Would Jester Do?)

We don't want any more Tiny Dancers either.

RecoveringKinkoid
11-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Jester would probably go over there and offer to kick the guy's ass for him. :lol:

notlovinit
11-23-2011, 08:42 PM
That's a pretty daring claim to make without knowing

a) the conditions of his parole
b) the local and state laws where Kisa lives

don't you think?


Okay, you're right, I apologize for making a blanket statement. It is possible that he has some clause in his parole conditions that prevents him from even talking to women for all I know. However, as far as telephone harassment goes (from my experience and from the experience of working with law enforcement for my state and for others across the country) the police will not arrest or even charge the offender until after they have warned the offender and the offender continues the harassment. The initial contact between the victim and the police does not lead to arrest or even a charge in most cases. All I am trying to do is ease Kisa's mind about her friend being angry with her. Reporting this to the police does not mean he will go back to jail. He might leave you alone after it is reported to the police, because he will know you are serious. Even if he continues the harassment and is convicted in court it might still not lead to jail time. It could. The chances are higher in his case since he is on parole, but it depends on the judge. If he does get sent back, it is his own fault. He would have had you warning him and the police warning him. If he's that stupid then he deserves it quite a bit. Any friend that doesn't understand that isn't worth it, IMO.

ETA: Also, if he doesn't leave you alone after you telling him and the police telling him, you'll probably WANT him to be in jail at that point.

Mytical
11-23-2011, 08:42 PM
I absolutely agree Lupo, no way she should go talk to the bozo. If for some reason Kisa was thinking about it, for whatever reason, just wanted to make sure that all the bases covered. My advise is to go nowhere near him.

Seshat
11-23-2011, 08:54 PM
The thread I'm about to link contains my best advice for this situation.

Dealing with Harassment (http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?t=25057)


As you can tell from the fact that we actually HAVE a FAQ thread about harassment, we've had to give this advice plenty of times. :(

Your case is unusually bad.

Your case is setting off my 'if you go there on Friday the next we'll hear of you is in a newspaper' warning bells.

Read the harassment thread.

Send him ONE 'cease and desist', WHILE STANDING IN A POLICE STATION, with a police officer helping you write the 'cease and desist' text and witnessing you sending it.

I'm not kidding.

And then NEVER EVER talk to him again. Forward his communications to you (and there will be some) to the police officer handling your case. And otherwise completely ignore him.
Smartphones and email programs can do that forwarding automatically. Mail you can drop off unopened. Voice calls, you hang up and keep a log of when he tries to call you, then send that log to the police officer handling the case.
If he approaches you physically, call police non-emergency. If he approaches you physically and you feel unsafe, call police emergency #.

I am deadly serious. Because my instincts are saying you are in real, physical danger.

Please be careful. He has motive, ability and opportunity. That is a bad, bad, BAD combination. That's the combination that gets people killed.

Eisa
11-24-2011, 12:50 AM
Jester would probably go over there and offer to kick the guy's ass for him. :lol:

I would help...if only to provide Jester with an alibi. :lol: :whistle:



I agree with everyone else, Kisa. Get away from this guy as far and as fast as you can. I don't CARE if it might piss off your friend to see this guy arrested again. If that's the case, you need better friends. Because if I were friends with some guy who just got out of jail, and I found out he was harassing my other friends, we wouldn't be friends anymore.

Definitely DO NOT EVER meet him again. Because I agree, it's setting off my "we will see you in the newspaper/in a body bag" spidey sense, and that is a very bad thing.

This guy is more than just clueless or not a nice guy. This guy is dangerous.

:hug:

Midnight12
11-24-2011, 01:30 AM
based on the original post it sounds like he thought that if he said sorry and all these sweet things you would cave and let him get what he wants and when that failed blowing up your phone and treating you like crap must work since other women must like it. yeah no not all women especially you like being talked to this way.

however this is a guess based solely on the OP

Der Cute
11-24-2011, 01:45 AM
All the hairs on my neck are standing up and my gut is screaming DON'T EVEN THINK OF THAT.

I would not answer the text. I would not be home at that time. I'd be at the police station and making a report right then. And be asking for a restraining order, with the texts as evidence. This person has been arrested for a pretty big crime. He's out now, and is supposed to show that he's changed and will be a better person. He's not doing that. He's breaking some common rules in society; and even with a warning, I don't think this will work.

I would also suggest to not answer the door, the phone or other means of communication without any kind of ID with it. Frankly, the concern for your friend is overriding your safety concern. That's...not cool.

Please, don't talk to this guy anymore. Even if it's a Hey Leave Me Alone, you're going to get a reply asking "why"..and you'll want to answer it. Don't acknowledge his existence from here on out. Period.
And get the restraining order, harassment based. It's YOUR safety, not his freedom.

Irving Patrick Freleigh
11-24-2011, 01:51 AM
No talk, no text, no go see this guy on Friday. He sounds like bad news, and there seem to be too many people who can't or won't see that he's bad news.

RecoveringKinkoid
11-24-2011, 01:55 AM
"I want you to come over...do that"= bad; Stating you want that person to do something without caring what they think and then telling them what to do.

Hmmm. Sort of like a sex offender might do.

Jester
11-24-2011, 02:17 AM
Kisa, just remember WWJD.

(What Would Jester Do?)

Since I was mentioned....

Kisa, I have two words of advice: IGNORE HIM.

"But he keeps texting me..."

I don't care. IGNORE HIM. If he texts you, just don't bother reading it, delete it, whatever it is you do with junk texts that offer you penis extenders, chances of winning lotteries, and shares in large Nigerian fortunes. If you have a sick side, perhaps laugh with your friends over the texts, reading them aloud at the pub or wherever, but do not respond, and do not treat these texts as anything other than what they are: garbage. In other words, IGNORE HIM.

"But he keeps calling me...."

So what? Lots of people call me that I don't answer. That's the beauty of having a cell phone...you get to screen your calls. I do it all the time. People call me while I'm at work....voice mail. People call me from numbers I don't know....voice mail. People call me who I just don't feel like talking to because they're University of Arizona fans calling to gloat...voice mail. In other words, IGNORE HIM.

"But he keeps leaving me all these voice mails...."

So what? I delete voice mails all the time. Ghost call voice mails, voice mails from wrong numbers looking for Alejandro, voice mails from businesses trying get me to change my car insurance or phone carrier, voice mails from random businesses trying to sell me whatever the fuck they are trying to sell me. As soon as I realize it's a voice mail I don't want to or need to listen to, I delete it. Don't even listen to the whole thing. I just delete it. So if you get a voice mail, and here his voice saying, "Hey, Kisa, I just called to say...", just immediately delete it. Don't listen to it, don't respond to it, don't even consider it as anything more than the waste that regularly gets deposited in the toilet, since that is what it is, and do what you do with that waste....flush it away and out of your life. In other words, IGNORE HIM.

Look, the dude can't leave his house, right? Eventually, even his dumb ass will get the message that he is not worth your time. Not a second, not a minute, not a word, not a text, not an image, nothing. And he will move on to some other poor unsuspecting soul who will fall for his crap, and/or get naked for him. And that's her problem, not yours. Feel sorry for her if you want, and if you know her adviser her about the crap YOU dealt with thanks to Mr. Serial Dialer, but whatever else you do, IGNORE HIM.

"But what if..."

No. No. And no. There are no what ifs, no what abouts, no buts, no but you sees, no but what about thises, no but what do I do whens.....there is only one thing.

And that, my dear, is that lovely two word phrase I keep repeating. IGNORE HIM. He is no more worthy of your time, stress, or bother than a snail that gets run over by a delivery truck on the other side of the road from where you get your lunch.

In other words, and to make this REALLY simple.....IGNORE HIM!!!!

Jester would probably go over there and offer to kick the guy's ass for him. :lol:

If I lived in the area, the first thing I would do is to offer my advice as listed above. That is the absolute best thing Kisa can do in this situation, period. (For those who somehow missed it due to their recent cataract surgery or having just smoked twenty bongs of primo grade ganja, that advice was to IGNORE HIM.)

However, I might also offer to go have a chat with our intrepid young lad. The conversation would go something like this.

*KNOCK KNOCK*

MORON: "Yes?"
JESTER: "Hi, Moron. I'm Jester. I'm friends with Kisa. The girl you keep calling and texting. And I'm here to tell you that you need to stop calling and texting her, because she really wants nothing to do with you. So you basically have two choices here. You can stop bothering her and leave her alone, or you can get used to breathing through a fucking tube."

Of course, that's just off the top of my head. In the moment, I might actually say something ugly.

fma_fanatic
11-24-2011, 02:17 AM
I'm going to say this with the experience of having an ex-BIL who was a molester - do not engage him.

Contact the police. So what if he goes back to jail? He's harassing you!

Seshat
11-24-2011, 02:41 AM
Please, don't talk to this guy anymore. Even if it's a Hey Leave Me Alone, you're going to get a reply asking "why"..and you'll want to answer it. Don't acknowledge his existence from here on out. Period.

The police require evidence that (generic) you have asked the person to leave you alone.

This is the ONLY reason I suggested sending a 'leave me alone' text. And her safety is the reason I suggested doing so while standing in a police station, with a police officer helping her word it AND WITNESSING IT.

Having the 'leave me alone' witnessed by an independant, reliable third party can make a huge difference.

Also, having a police officer standing by is going to help her resist answering the 'why'. Especially since any officer worth her blues is going to say 'don't answer that'.

notlovinit
11-24-2011, 03:02 AM
I wholeheartedly agree with Seshat's reply to this. The only thing I do suggest is to keep any texts, voice messages, letters, e-mails, etc. as evidence if he does continue contact and it comes up in court. Evidence is important.

XCashier
11-24-2011, 03:42 AM
Both Seshat and RK have given good advice. Take this to the police, talk to them, start a paper trail. This guy is setting off all sorts of gut alarms with me, and I'm not even in the vicinity.

Too many women have been raised to be "good girls", to not want to "cause a scene" or upset the man's feelings, and that is precisely what the creeps are hoping for, so they can victimize some poor polite girl without getting into trouble. Read this blog post (http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/06/26/another-post-about-rape-3/), it is an eye-opener.

ApolloSZ
11-24-2011, 03:56 AM
Mytical nailed my instinctual feeling in one hit. I have a long answer and a short answer to going to see him.

Short = No.
Long = Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooo.

Jester - Two other options for this creep? -

1 - Stop texting/contacting/having Kisa's number on his phone.
2 - Eating said phone. Without the aid of condiments.

To re-iterate. DONT GO. DONT contact beyond the "leave me alone" message. Seshat has give awesome advice.

Jester
11-24-2011, 04:08 AM
Jester - Two other options for this creep? -

1 - Stop texting/contacting/having Kisa's number on his phone.
2 - Eating said phone. Without the aid of condiments.

Or, to paraphrase one of the best lines I've ever heard on a tv show, leave her alone or learn to chew with someone else's teeth.

But however it was phrased, the message would be clear. Fuck off, or get fucked up. To be blunt.

MoonCat
11-24-2011, 04:44 AM
"If you are not safe, you do not respond, because your safety is primary."

That is a quote from the blog post link that XCashier gave. And it's right on target.

Please stay away from this guy! Be safe.

Seshat
11-24-2011, 04:45 AM
notlovinit, XCashier and ApolloSZ: thank you.

The harassment thread I linked to was actually the combined work of many people - yes, I wrote the initial post out of my own head, but only AFTER I'd seen many, many threads about harassment with input from many people; including both police officers and private security types.

So while I'll take credit for assembling the information into a coherent whole, the info was only partly my own work. :)


Anyway... that's a side issue. We return to our regularly scheduled thread. :)

Kisa
11-24-2011, 05:19 AM
I talked to my friend and told him what my plans were. He is on my side which I am very thankful for. Today I got more calls, more texts and they are getting even weirder and more worrying. I got 3 while I was at work today:

"Hey beautiful you there?" 6:57pm
"Fucking ignore me then thats fucking cool of you" 7:20pm
"(pic of him shirtless) This guy misses you" 7:49pm

The scariest part to me was the way he so quickly switched gears from sweetie to dickhead back to sweetie. I was considering texting back and telling him I was at work and to please not text me while I was at work but I realized that was what he wanted and shut off my phone. When I got home, Mr Hero sent me a text telling me to read all the replies I got. Now I'm glad I held my ground.... Thank you all for caring and thank you all for your advice and words of concern. I'm so glad I have so many people who care about me.

I don't want to go through and quote all of them so I'lljust comment on them as a whole.
Firstly, I will not go see him. I know it will either end with him trying to get me naked by acting nice or him screaming at me and getting in my face. I've decided, as long as he is staying there, I will not go to my friends house. He will have to come to my house or we will have to go out somewhere.

Second, I have not yet decided if I will send that one text or not but, if I do, I will definetly do it at a police station. I think that's a gread idea.

His probation forbids him from talking to anyone younger than 19, male or female, so he is allowed to talk to me. However, if he came to my house, he would go straight back to jail as he cannot go within 1,000ft of a school/daycare and my house is right behind a school.

I am scared that he will come to my house or do something after I send that text but if he does, he will go back to jail. I recently found out he also has a number of DUI's and gang involvement on his record which worries me more. I'll keep you all updated and I promise I will stay safe.

Jester
11-24-2011, 05:31 AM
I was considering texting back and telling him I was at work and to please not text me while I was at work but I realized that was what he wanted and shut off my phone.

Second, I have not yet decided if I will send that one text or not but, if I do, I will definetly do it at a police station. I think that's a gread idea.

Best message you can send him is NONE. Just IGNORE HIM. When he stops getting any sort of replies whatsoever to his juvenile over-testosteroned bullshit, he'll get the message loud and clear. That being that you are done with him, goodbye, don't let the door hit you on the way out, later, aloha, and adios motherfucker.

Don't send him any texts. Don't send him an IMs. Don't send him anything. Don't even acknowledge his very existence.

And whatever you do, don't read the texts he sends you, don't listen to his voice mails, don't even bother with them. Just delete them and move on, treating it as if it was the nothing that it was, pausing just long enough to delete them in the same way you would pause just long enough to scrape the dogshit off your boot.

Just. Fucking. Ignore. Him.

Period.

XCashier
11-24-2011, 05:40 AM
Best message you can send him is NONE. Just IGNORE HIM. When he stops getting any sort of replies whatsoever to his juvenile over-testosteroned bullshit, he'll get the message loud and clear.
A normal, decent man would get the message. A normal, decent man would think, "I guess she's not into me."

This guy is neither normal nor decent. Guys like him get their texts ignored and think, "how dare this bitch ignore me! I'll show her!" And they do. :(

I really think the police should be involved.

Jester
11-24-2011, 05:53 AM
He is neither normal nor decent, I agree.

But he will get the message.

I am not saying she should not alert the police about this. I am just saying that she should just not give this idiot any response whatsoever at all. I mean, she's already told him she doesn't want to deal with him anymore. Now she needs to follow through on that. Because every time she responds to him, she is showing him that she was not, in fact, done dealing with him.

The guy is basically a bully. When he no longer has her to bully, he will move along to find someone stupider and more vulnerable to fuck with.

Outside of alerting the police, possibly alerting this douchebag's parole officer, and completely ignoring all attempts at contact he makes with her, I cannot honestly think of anything else she should or could do that would make the message any clearer.

Well, at least not since they outlawed vigilante lynchings.

Der Cute
11-24-2011, 08:36 AM
I think we're all right in this; just slightly different ways of going around this stuff.
I'm just concerned that if he texted you, you said go away, he asked why, you would feel compelled to do so.
You don't have to do jack shit. My sister calls me..leaves a message? I don't have to talk to her ever at all never nuthin nada nope.
IMO, report this turd. Text him back (while at the station, yay) say Leave Me Alone I do Not Want To Be Contacted By You EVER. (that's a pretty black and white statement.)
Then if he texts back, record? Save? Somehow get these things in as evidence. The cops will run his name and such making the report. It will get to his PO from just a report. And, even better, since you ARE near a school, he can't come over. He's busted from just that. (that's in your favor).
Don't Engage The Crazy. He deserves no more CPU cycles from you. You get up, have breakfast, go to work, answer IMPORTANT stuff from family, go to police. Then go home.
I can get my phone carrier to block texts. Idea..instead of answering them, just save them. Then if he's repeating his harassment, you go back to the cops and say "Hey. I made a harassment report 2 days ago about Moron Schmucky, and he's still harassing me. I'm starting to be afraid. Has this been passed to his PO? Hmm??HMM?? This needs to stop. Can we get a TRO? Thank you."
Advocate for yourself, we can't do much here (besides guidance and hugs). If you don't want to talk to someone, you don't have to. Even if it is the Pope.
Good luck, be safe, your safety > anything else.

Mr Hero
11-24-2011, 10:11 AM
The sad part is if this happened just a couple months ago, he'd be violating his parole by texting you. You missed protection by a couple months.

It's me
11-24-2011, 05:39 PM
Kisa,

Lot's of good advice here. But...... I get the sense it is hard for you to completely ignore the text messages. If you do send one response on your own you may find yourself dragged into a conversation you don't want. So, really do go to the police. Talk to someone there. Send the one GTFO message if the police agree. But please don't try to manage this on your own... you are up against an experienced manipulator.

Kisa
11-25-2011, 01:54 AM
Kisa,

Lot's of good advice here. But...... I get the sense it is hard for you to completely ignore the text messages. If you do send one response on your own you may find yourself dragged into a conversation you don't want. So, really do go to the police. Talk to someone there. Send the one GTFO message if the police agree. But please don't try to manage this on your own... you are up against an experienced manipulator.

It is difficult to ignore them because I'm an overly nice person who has a difficult time saying no. My friend actually suggested I let him delete my number from JackHole's phones (yes he has multiple phones. 1 to show his P.O., 1 old one he's not supposed to have and 1 new android he's not supposed to have). Today, I agreed because I need help. I wanted to do this myself at first but it's getting worse. Today, he called 7 TIMES IN A ROW and left a nasty message telling me to "answer your fucking phone" because he "just wants to fucking tell you one fucking thing but I can't fucking tell you unless you pick the fuck up". The first few times I let it ring because I dodn't want to hit ignore and let him know I'm ignoring his calls. The I realized, yes that's exactly what I want! So I started to ignore them. I'm considering changing my number...

FormerCallingCardRep
11-25-2011, 02:08 AM
I'm considering changing my number...

That is exactly what you need to do.

Seshat
11-25-2011, 02:19 AM
but I realized that was what he wanted

He wants to control you. He wants to affect you.

Or more precisely, he wants a woman he can control and affect. It doesn't have to be you, you're just handy.

And you were nice to him. And he can get access to you via your mutual friend. And you're socialised to be Polite and Respond To People and Not Be Cruel, which he can manipulate.

Take a record of all the interactions with him you have recorded (text messages, etc) to the police station. If the officer you're talking with says that the evidence shows that you've told him not to interact with you, then don't respond to him ever again.
If the officer says there needs to be a 'don't talk to me, don't interact with me' message sent, ask if it can be done by the police, on your behalf. If that's legally allowable as the 'leave me alone' message in your particular jurisdiction, do that.
ONLY - and here I agree with Jester - ONLY send that final message yourself if you legally must, to make his harassment legally qualify as harassment.
The police will know what you have to do.

Kaylyn
11-25-2011, 05:25 AM
It is difficult to ignore them because I'm an overly nice person who has a difficult time saying no.

I know exactly where you're coming from. I'm not the most assertive person either, because from my personal past experience assertive = bitch in most people's minds. And I'm super paranoid about what people think of me, so I tend to let more things slide than most people would, and I let things affect me negatively that I really shouldn't worry about.

That being said, this guy does NOT deserve nice!Kisa. So don't worry about trying to be nice. And don't be a bitch, either, because sounds like he thrives on getting your hackles raised. Just do your best to let it go. Do the police thing, do the one text saying, "Leave me the fuck alone" and then don't read the following messages, or listen to the voicemails. Memorize your skip button on your voicemail. Save them to show the police, because he WILL try to contact you after you've said no, because right now he just hears empty threats and knows he's getting under your skin, which is what he wants. It's definitely a control issue. Ignore what he has to say, just turn it over to the authorities, and don't let him control you just because you want to remain "nice."

iradney
11-25-2011, 07:02 AM
You want to be nice? Think of it this way: By getting the police involved and aware of this situation, you are being very nice to yourself and any of his potential future victimes by getting him on the radar. When he does something that results in his arrest, your information given to the police will be very nice for being used to put him away. And it's even nicer because no other woman/girl will have to be harrassed/abused by this idiot again.

And let's face it - that's the best kind of nice.

PS the fact that the terms of his parole dictate age and schools worries me.

Irving Patrick Freleigh
11-25-2011, 10:34 AM
His probation forbids him from talking to anyone younger than 19, male or female, so he is allowed to talk to me. However, if he came to my house, he would go straight back to jail as he cannot go within 1,000ft of a school/daycare and my house is right behind a school.


Ahh, so he's a kiddy diddler. It just gets better and better with him, don't it?

Jester
11-25-2011, 01:58 PM
It is difficult to ignore them because I'm an overly nice person who has a difficult time saying no. My friend actually suggested I let him delete my number from JackHole's phones (yes he has multiple phones. 1 to show his P.O., 1 old one he's not supposed to have and 1 new android he's not supposed to have). Today, I agreed because I need help. I wanted to do this myself at first but it's getting worse. Today, he called 7 TIMES IN A ROW and left a nasty message telling me to "answer your fucking phone" because he "just wants to fucking tell you one fucking thing but I can't fucking tell you unless you pick the fuck up". The first few times I let it ring because I dodn't want to hit ignore and let him know I'm ignoring his calls. The I realized, yes that's exactly what I want! So I started to ignore them. I'm considering changing my number...

You are clearly a nice person, but in this case, you are being too nice.

Changing your number? Because of this shit?

I agree that you need to talk to the police and get this shit official. I reiterate my earlier comments that you need to ignore his calls and his texts, and NOT listen to his voicemails, as they clearly upset you. And while I am usually one to say "you need to do this for yourself," I appreciate the fact that you recognized you needed some help and went out and got it from your friend.

I am PMing you my phone number. Call me this weekend.

Canarr
11-25-2011, 02:30 PM
And if he IS violating his parole by acting in this fashion? It's his choice, he obviously doesn't deserve parole if he can't abide by the guidlines set.


Read my post carefully: I'm all for calling the police on him if necessary - and from Kisa's further posts, we're well beyond necessary. I merely objected against a blanket statement of, "That's the way it is!" because I seriously dislike those. Since notlovinit already retracted that, though, I've got nothing further to add here.

So, @Kisa: what everybody else already said. Take care, be safe, and get that creep cut out of your life asap.

Redbeard
11-25-2011, 10:25 PM
You misunderstand, Canarr. I wasn't arguing, I was agreeing and then some.

Kisa: If this guy's also an unreformed gang banger (And I have met some that got out of that life. Good people now, very haunted by their past), that makes him more dangerous because he also has the "violence = best argument ender/date motivator ever" mindset.
Please go to the police immediately, tell them that you are reporting harassment from a paroled sex offender and that you need to file a report with his P.O.. Make sure that the texts and voice mails are all transcribed by an officer to be included in the official record.
The only way he's going to listen is if there's a badge in his face with very clear instructions "You go near her, you go back inside". Trust me, the LAST thing someone with an underage sex conviction wants is to be back behind bars, and it also sets a record of behavior in the system that is reviewed at his next parole hearing, if he's allowed one.
I'm glad you're listening though, I haven't been here very long but I'm growing to like pretty every other Veteran of Asshattery by the Public (tm) in here

Kisa
11-26-2011, 02:42 AM
Ahh, so he's a kiddy diddler. It just gets better and better with him, don't it?

The incident that gor him locked up happened when he was 17 and his then girlfirend was 15. After that, the story always changes but my guess is he talked her into shit she didn't wanna do. The school restrictions are put in place because he had sex with a minor. In my state, a minor is anyone under 18 so trat includes girls with driver permits, girls with training bras and kiddies in diapers.

I am PMing you my phone number. Call me this weekend.


I'll try to get the call in tomarrow but I may not be understandable as I'm getting all 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed :(

that makes him more dangerous because he also has the "violence = best argument ender/date motivator ever" mindset.

Honestly, I thought of that a week ago and it's haunted me since...

Buglady
11-26-2011, 08:07 AM
Too many women have been raised to be "good girls", to not want to "cause a scene" or upset the man's feelings, and that is precisely what the creeps are hoping for

^^^ THIS^^^

Short version:

Ask yourself: What's worse? Being not-nice, maybe even bitchy, or being beaten up and/or dead? Because that IS where this will go. I am not kidding, exaggerating or overreacting. That guy is showing EVERY signal there is for abusive males.

Police. Now.

Long Version:

1. Seriously, being nice is fucking overrated. Women do not owe men automatic sweetness-and-light (and how exactly does a penis warrant that kind of obeisance anyway?? Honestly! Half the guys who pull this crap don't even know how to use theirs anyway!).

2. This guy has already broken his side of the social contract - you know, the one that says "don't be a douchewaffle and harass women" - so it's completely fair for him to experience the consequences. You are in NO WAY being mean, bitchy, unfair, unfeminine, vindictive, or anything else by not saving him from himself! He's already been in jail. Let him deal with that if he didn't learn the first time. Not your problem. You just met him.

3. Read Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear. That goes for all women reading this thread, actually.

And one other thing - Kisa, I'm old enough to be your mom. Please trust me when I say that having someone mad at you isn't the end of the world. At this stage in your life your friendships are a huge part of how you are growing into yourself as a person - but they are NOT the whole of who you are, and the short term sting of rejection from friends who don't agree with you cannot compare to the strength you will find in doing what you need to to protect yourself.

Also part of being older is that you run out of energy to deal with drama, bullshit, and the strutting young males that cause a lot of the former, so you get a lot better at either ignoring them or subduing them with a well-placed Alpha Bitch snarl... :devil:

Seshat
11-26-2011, 08:16 AM
Honestly, I thought of that a week ago and it's haunted me since...

Smart woman.

Get thee to a self-defence-for-women class.

The sort that allows for the fact that our strengths and weaknesses differ from those of a male body.
The sort that emphasises attention and alertness and being able to rapidly assess situations.
The sort that lets you know where the 'safe' and 'dangerous' areas of a city are.

Also read Gavin deBecker's book "The Gift of Fear", and any other similar books your local librarian can recommend. (If the library doesn't have TGoF, BUY IT. It's worth the money. I own a copy.)

Get a cell phone. Keep it charged. Keep emergency on speed dial. Any time you're in a 'between' zone, have the phone in your hand, with your thumb on the speed dial button.
A 'between' zone is anywhere between busy-with-people and empty-of-people. Examples are the dispersal area of a train station or bus station, any parking lot, and any quiet area near busy areas (such as the back halls of a shopping mall).
'between' zones are dangerous because there are enough targets for a predator, but not enough lights-and-people for the victim to easily get help.

If you notice something wrong in a between-zone, DO NOT head for your car or your home or somewhere like that. Go to the lights-and-people. If you feel unsafe, rather than just uneasy, hit the speed dial on your phone and keep talking to the operator until you are safe. Better for you to keep an emergency-services operator busy while you get to safety than for you to end up a news headline.

If you're attacked, or even 'just' encouraged to leave lights-and-people by someone you don't feel comfortable leaving with (such as HIM), make a scene. Again, better to make a scene than to be a news headline.



Any of the security officers and former security officers here will (I trust) back me up on this: they may not want to be kept late at work, but they'd far, far rather escort someone to their car and watch to be sure the person gets into the flow of traffic safely, than to read the newspaper and find out someone was killed on their watch.
You can ALWAYS go back to lights-and-people. And you can always at least ASK for security to escort you to your car/to the bus stop/watch you until you get into a taxi. If their particular job doesn't allow them to do that, a smart/wise security officer will let you wait somewhere they can watch you, until help can arrive.



The best form of self defence is not needing to fight - because you just weren't there when the fight would otherwise have occurred.

Keep yourself safe.

iradney
11-26-2011, 08:16 AM
I normally put it this way:

Would my Dad tolerate this kind of behaviour towards:
1) me
2) my mom
3) himself?

Generally if the answer is no to at least two, then shut that shit down.

Eisa
11-26-2011, 08:32 AM
Agree with reading Gift of Fear, I picked it up about a year ago while skimming true crime titles, and it was worth it. Very much worth it. I know for me, it helped me stop worrying about the might's and what if's and pay attention to what is actually happening around me.

This guy is not a nice guy. Therefore, you don't have to be nice. In fact, don't be nice at all.

And definitely agree with going to the lights-and-people. Might make you feel stupid and paranoid, but better to feel paranoid than to be dead (to put it bluntly).

Also--question--did you learn what his crime was from him or do you actually know the details?

Jester
11-26-2011, 01:26 PM
Trust me, the LAST thing someone with an underage sex conviction wants is to be back behind bars...

We don't KNOW that his conviction is an underage sex offense. We only know that he has a sex offense. It could be anything.

The incident that gor him locked up happened when he was 17 and his then girlfirend was 15. After that, the story always changes but my guess is he talked her into shit she didn't wanna do.

And not to belabor the above point, but we don't know this, either. After all, what is your primary source for knowledge about this guy's offense? My guess is that it's him, or perhaps his cousin (your friend), who may not know the whole story. Anything Mr. Douchebag says has to be considered suspect and questionable, so if he says he was 17 and she was 15, that may be the truth, or that may be near the truth, or that may be a complete and total fabrication. After all, if a guy says he had sex with 12 women, most people believe it was less than that. Why would we believe a convicted sex offender when it comes to the nature of his offense. I mean, really, who knows what really happened?

More to the point, who cares? After all, it doesn't really matter what his past conviction is for. It only matters that now YOU can use it as a weapon to get HIM away from you. And use it you should. You should use anything you can to distance yourself from this sackless piece of crap.

I'll try to get the call in tomarrow but I may not be understandable as I'm getting all 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed :(

Ouch. Yes, that's very understandable. Well, keep in mind, it's 8:23 am, and I'm already awake, so if you wanted to call me before said surgery, knock yourself out.

If not, just PM me when you get the chance, and I'll let you know what my schedule is so you can call me at your convenience. But the sooner we get this douchebag out of your life, the better.

And do not delay going to the cops at all. Get there as SOON as you can. As in yesterday, woman!

Shpepper
11-26-2011, 06:19 PM
But the sooner we get this douchebag out of your life, the better.

And do not delay going to the cops at all. Get there as SOON as you can. As in yesterday, woman!

What Jester said. We need our Kisa. Your stories light up my life.

Canarr
11-26-2011, 09:49 PM
You misunderstand, Canarr. I wasn't arguing, I was agreeing and then some.


Ah, crap; misread your post. My apologies. :o

AccountingDrone
11-27-2011, 01:33 AM
Just got a text reading, "I want you to come over friday or saturday; thats 3 days notice for you so do that; we'll talk and straighten shit out"..
"I want you to come over...do that"= bad; Stating you want that person to do something without caring what they think and then telling them what to do.

Oh freaking hell no. Either tel him no way, or make arrangements for the biggest meanest looking guy you know to be there with you. Not saying that he will assault you if the 'discussion' doesn't go his way, but he did end up in jail for sexual assault.

Text him back, once, and tell him you want nothing more to do with him, and that he is not to contact you again. Then ignore him and block him. You can do it without having to pay $5 extra on your plan. Go sign up for youmail.com. It's free, and you can block his number through there. Works like a charm.

so I checked out their page, how well does the play the disconnected message work? I have some bill collectors that are chasing an ex roomie and they are getting hella annoying. Do you plug in their numbers or can you add them from the call log? Do you have to go online to their webpage to register the numbers you want to cockblock?

Sakka
11-27-2011, 06:01 AM
JackHole's phones (yes he has multiple phones. 1 to show his P.O., 1 old one he's not supposed to have and 1 new android he's not supposed to have).

Am I the only one who saw this and thought that idiots parole officer should be informed about those phones, along with everything else.
I don't know for sure, but most conditions of parole mean that you can be searched whenever and where ever a police officer feels like it. Locally, it's not uncommon for officers to arrange a search at someones place for 3 or 4am.

blas
11-27-2011, 06:11 AM
I don't know about parole, but probation officers can and will randomly search you whenever (with a police escort), but it usually depends on how much of a threat or risk of reoffending you are. My ex had a too kind probation officer, and because he wasn't white trash, she didn't think it was necessary to check on him or drug test him or go to his house the way she did with other guys on probation. Even though he violated his probation often and was caught a few times at a bar, she'd only for the minimum follow up that was required, because she didn't think he was "bad enough" to require constant monitoring.

DeltaSierra
11-27-2011, 07:04 AM
After reading all this and what he's been saying and how he's behaving what I simply can't understand is what is keeping you from going to the police with this, pronto?

ShadowBall
11-27-2011, 07:31 AM
Another reader of The Gift of Fear...good book, but I can sum up the whole damn thing in three words: trust your gut. Basically all the book tells you is if you get that gut feeling shit's not right, it isn't and you should listen to that intuition. Good bit of advice, but no reason a whole book had to be dedicated to something most people are advised to do at one point or another.

Also, if you were to go the route of learning self defense, I would not advise one specifically for women because, in my experience, it's nothing but a load of bullshit. I was forced to take one in high school as part of P.E. and the "methods" were ridiculous - like slamming your ass against an attacker's groin. I told this to a friend of mine who is a black belt in karate and he showed me how someone could easily dodge, block or use the women's self-defense techniques against the women using them. So if you want to do self defense, I would advise a real class and not Cushy Dirty Dancing Under Pressure 101 like I had.

The shitty part is since you're not playing this asshole's little game, he's going to see that as a challenge against his manliness and will become a right pain in the ass and a threat to you. There's really no other advice I can offer regarding the police and such that others have not already said, but in any case, do be careful.

Eisa
11-27-2011, 07:57 AM
I took this one myself. Twice. :p http://www.rad-systems.com/ I had a good instructor the first time...and the simulation helped at the end (where you practice basically beating the fuck out of someone...they're heavily padded, of course. I had one guy grab me from behind and actually pick me up off the ground and I got away from him. You have to put them on the ground). So it might be a consideration.

Seshat
11-27-2011, 09:38 AM
Another reader of The Gift of Fear...good book, but I can sum up the whole damn thing in three words: trust your gut.<snip>

Also, if you were to go the route of learning self defense, I would not advise one specifically for women because, in my experience, it's nothing but a load of bullshit.


The Gift of Fear covers more than that - and for someone with anxieties (like me), it tells you when your gut is right. And what you can do about it.

As for women's self-defence courses: as with all such things, some are good, some not so much. Sounds like yours was a not-so-much.

Buglady
11-27-2011, 03:02 PM
Another reader of The Gift of Fear...good book, but I can sum up the whole damn thing in three words: trust your gut. Basically all the book tells you is if you get that gut feeling shit's not right, it isn't and you should listen to that intuition. Good bit of advice, but no reason a whole book had to be dedicated to something most people are advised to do at one point or another.

The trouble is - and this is one of the main points of the book - is that women are so often told NOT to trust their gut, over and over throughout our lives; we are told to be nice, to smooth over, to appease and to please. We're told we are overly emotional, that we're over-reacting, that we should feel complimented when men "like" us to the point of harassing and scaring us, that we do not have the right to make a man feel bad by refusing his advances or telling him off for his behaviour...

That is, until we're in a really bad situation and then we get blamed for not having known better. It's a god-awful situation. :rant:

As for self-defense - yes, women are usually smaller and not as strong as men. That makes surprisingly little difference compared to the attitude of "I am going to fight" - and that's the part the self-defense classes usually focus on (or should). It's the mental and emotional preparation as much as physical.

Jester
11-27-2011, 03:44 PM
Also, if you were to go the route of learning self defense...

I want to comment on this, and tell you (all of you) what I have basically told my three older nieces. (My youngest niece isn't quite to the point of understanding it. I'm hoping to teach her soon, though, as she is very loving and accepting of everyone she meets.)

First, I should point out that not only am I not a self-defense instructor, I don't even know any real self-defense techniques or martial arts. My comments are actually geared towards people who DON'T have this knowledge, but still find themselves in such situations. The best advice is to actually learn some self-defense techniques from a professional.

That being said, if you don't know those techniques, there are a few things all women should know. To wit, the vulnerable points on a man: eyes, throat, knees, and testicles. All of which are absolutely fair game if someone is assaulting you. Especially since, generally speaking, the woman being assaulted will be smaller than the man assaulting her.

Testicles: highly vulnerable. If possible, put a food, knee, or fist into them. And I mean HARD. Like you're trying to break bricks. Slam those puppies. Alternatively, if you can't get the leverage for a good swing, use your hand to grab them, and squeeze as hard as you can. Like you're trying to crush grapes. Then squeeze even harder. The one downside to this last part is that, if you grab the dick instead of the balls, he may well enjoy it.

Knees: They are designed to bend one way. So if you can get a good stomp straight into their knee from the front, bending it the wrong way and/or breaking it, this will cripple your attacker, not just from pain, but possibly from walking as well. Makes it damn difficult to follow someone you're attacking when your knee is shattered. And when I say stomp, I mean it....vertically send the heel or sole of your foot as hard as you can straight into the front of the knee. The downside here is that you won't always have a good shot or the right leverage to get this shot in.

Eyes: It's "dirty" to claw at someone's eyes. If you're being attacked, however, rules and what is or isn't dirty go right out the fucking window. Claw, poke, stab foreign objects in there....whatever. It's damn hard to attack someone when you can't see and/or are in agonizing pain. The downside to this is that the eyes are small targets, and a lot of attackers will be able to defend against this.

Throat: It controls the air flow. No air, no attack. So, cut off the air. With the likely discrepancy in strength between victim and attacker, choking is unlikely to work. So you need to punch as hard as you can right in the middle of the throat. But don't aim for the front of the throat. You need to hit them in the front of the throat, of course, by the Adam's apple area, but you want to AIM for the back of the neck, so that your punch goes hard right through. This actually is true for most hits: you want to aim for something BEYOND the target, i.e., back of the throat, back of the knee, etc. The idea being that if you aim for beyond the target, you will go hard through the target. The downside to this is that it's hard to get the right shot in.

One other "dirty" technique that could enable your escape: spit, stomp, slam. To wit, spit in their eyes. When they reach up reflexively to deal with that, stomp them on the foot or in the shin. Or kick them in the balls. Again the reflex on their part is to bend over. At which point you grab the back of their head with both hands, and SLAM it down hard into your knee, smashing their face, and disabling them long enough for you to get away. And the downside to this is that it doesn't always work to plan.

All of the above are potentially effective, but do have downsides, as mentioned. Once again, self-defense classes are highly recommended. If you haven't gotten to them yet, though, remember the above. I have made sure that my nieces, none of whom are all that large, have committed them to memory, and it makes me sleep easier at night.

You will notice I don't mention any weapons here. That is because weapons can be turned on the person trying to defend themselves, and in a struggle for a weapon, the person with more strength has the advantage, and that is usually going to benefit the male attacker over the female victim. Without proper training in the use of weapons, they can be just as dangerous to you, perhaps even more dangerous, as they can be to your would-be attacker.

And remember, any of you who want to talk can always PM me. I'll be here for you.

Seshat
11-27-2011, 04:31 PM
As for self-defense - yes, women are usually smaller and not as strong as men. That makes surprisingly little difference compared to the attitude of "I am going to fight" - and that's the part the self-defense classes usually focus on (or should). It's the mental and emotional preparation as much as physical.

In retrospect, I will modify my advice.

Do a self-defence course. Do one where the instructor - male or female - understands the differences in mechanical advantage between males (upper body) and females (lower body).

Essentially, because men generally have broader shoulders than women, and longer arms, their upper body bones are longer levers and thus can move with more force. The instructor doesn't have to know that in these words, but they have to understand how to work with it.

Women, with our wider pelvises, are stronger at carrying heavy things around our hips than at our shoulders. This is why men instinctively carry children and toddlers high on their bodies, and women tend to snuggle them to our hips. Again, the instructor doesn't have to know the formal words, just understand how to work with it.



You're looking for a self-defence course, one focussed on helping you to identify risky situations and deal with them effectively - including escaping to safety if it's at all possible.
Most karate/judo/whatever courses are targetted more at fitness and competition-winning than at self-defence. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this! But it's not your main purpose in this situation.

That said, becoming fit will always help in a danger situation. If you have that option, take it. :) And a style of fitness that helps you effectively deal with risky situations is useful.

(Side note: I literally cannot run away. For me, escape after the fact is not a viable option. :( That's one of the reasons 'The Gift of Fear' and similar books are helpful to me - identifying a risky situation before I enter it is my most effective defence.)

bhskittykatt
11-27-2011, 04:53 PM
That being said, if you don't know those techniques, there are a few things all women should know. To wit, the vulnerable points on a man: eyes, throat, knees, and testicles. All of which are absolutely fair game if someone is assaulting you. Especially since, generally speaking, the woman being assaulted will be smaller than the man assaulting her.


I took a self-defense seminar, and I was taught the eyes are the best target you can go for. When attacking a guy, the testicles are the first to come to mind, but especially if the guy is drunk, a kick in the nuts isn't going to be as effective as you think.

If you go for the eyes, though, their first reflex is going to be to protect their eyes. Their hands will fly up to their face. This means that you've either opened them up to another attack if you know what you're doing, or you've just given yourself a few seconds to try and escape.

The class I took was a one-day thing with my old Girl Scout troop, but I still remember a lot from it. Hubs also has martial arts training and has taught me a few ways to get out of various holds. It's not nearly the same as taking a full-fledged class, but every little bit helps, I think.

Jester
11-27-2011, 05:47 PM
I agree that the eyes are the best target generally speaking, but they are a small target, and in some cases, the height difference between the victim and attacker could make them very difficult to get to. But they ARE a target to consider.

Also, with the nuts, that is why I didn't just say kick or knee them there. Reaching in with your hand, grabbing them, and squeezing like your life depends on it (which it may) can be VERY effective. Just TYPING this makes me wince, and I am sure it makes a lot of guys reading it cringe just as much. But it is something I feel women should know. If the attacker in question is wearing pants or shorts that are not denim, this will be much more effective, as denim is thicker and sturdier, and tends to protect the testicles from this kind of attack somewhat better.

RecoveringKinkoid
11-27-2011, 05:50 PM
I wouldn't suggest going for the nuts, simply because most guys instinctively protect that area. Feint to the nuts (he'll be expecting that anyways) and when he puts all his defenses on the family jewels, go straight for his face and throat.

I mean, of course take a nut shot if you can get one, but you probably won't get one.

Also, you bite a guy in the neck just right, you'll take the fight right out of him. If you can clamp your jaws down on that big muscle that runs down the side of the neck into the shoulder, he's done.

And when I say clamp down, I don't mean pussyfoot around, either. I mean clamp down like you're trying to kill him. Because you should be. You probably won't, but you need to be doing your level best anyway. Your jaws are the strongest muscles in your body. Use them.

Nice thing about that is that he sure as hell won't be expecting that. And once you're dug in like a dog tic, he probably won't be able to dislodge you.

Jester
11-27-2011, 07:06 PM
There are a lot of great suggestions here, but of course what the best course of action will be will depend on the actual situation. So, if you do find yourself being attacked, one of the best things you can do, as difficult as it will be, will be to keep your head, stay as calm as you can, and figure out your attacker's weak spot or vulnerable area, and then take your shot at the first opportunity. Losing your head is natural, of course, but probably won't do much for your situation.

I know that this forum does not advocate violence, but I think when it comes to self-defense, as being discussed here, it's a whole different thing.

PepperElf
11-27-2011, 07:35 PM
glad to see you're not going to meet him!

and yeah i hope that you do involve the police no matter what you decide to do with your phone.


And... if you'd like a cheap way to ignore his calls, you may want to consider using a silent ringer for him. i had that option on one of my old phones. and i'm pretty sure i could make one too. that way if he tries calling you sure it will ring but you won't hear it. (although you may have a risk of answering your phone by accident if you try to call out when he's calling you).

Jester
11-27-2011, 07:52 PM
An alternative to what Pepper Elf said is to assign one ringtone just to him, so you know immediately that he's calling, and can silence and/or ignore the call/text completely. For a horrible ex-girlfriend, I had ELO's "Evil Woman" as her ring tone.

For this guy, Beck's "Loser" might work.
Perhaps Natalie Imbruglia's "Leave Me Alone."
Maybe even "Hit the Road Jack."

I'm sure there are lots of songs that would lend themselves well to such a ringtone, actually. Those are just a few off the top of my pointy little head.

It's me
11-27-2011, 08:48 PM
Lots of advice here, not very much Kisa!

Kisa, things any better? Did you talk with Jester?

Seshat
11-27-2011, 10:42 PM
If she's just had four wisdom teeth out, she may not be in much condition to type.

Best of luck for a rapid recovery, Kisa!

RootedPhoenix
11-27-2011, 11:01 PM
Kisa,

No advice, but lots of *hugs*. Good luck with the wisdom teeth too. :(

ApolloSZ
11-27-2011, 11:13 PM
I want to re-iterate something Seshat said.

LEVERAGE. If it comes to it (and i hope it doesn't. really really hope it doesnt) size doesn't matter, if you get the better leverage (not to mention the right place/joint/goolies (on that note, OWWW Jester.)) you will be able to get jerk off you, and hightail it.


That specific argument comes up at training with Noobs. "But ApolloSZ is huge. He'll just throw me around easily"

Fine, yes, if I get a good brace/grip, I'm either not moving or you are. But then we introduce my friend 'A'. Who is a foot shorter, and roughly half my weight. The minute my structure breaks, either I dance like a monkey or i dedicate every limb to bracing again, not to keeping hold of 'A'.

Eisa
11-27-2011, 11:14 PM
For my abusive ex, I changed his ringtone to "These Boots Are Made for Walkin'."

Hope the wisdom teeth came out easy. :hug:

Seshat
11-28-2011, 12:55 AM
LEVERAGE. If it comes to it (and i hope it doesn't. really really hope it doesnt) size doesn't matter, if you get the better leverage (not to mention the right place/joint/goolies (on that note, OWWW Jester.)) you will be able to get jerk off you, and hightail it.

Fine, yes, if I get a good brace/grip, I'm either not moving or you are. But then we introduce my friend 'A'. Who is a foot shorter, and roughly half my weight. The minute my structure breaks, either I dance like a monkey or i dedicate every limb to bracing again, not to keeping hold of 'A'.

If you're a female with 'pear shaped' body doing judo (hippy, not so shouldery), you'll probably find that hip throws are always easier for you than throws that require using your arms.

Leverage.

'Good child-bearing hips' are also excellent hip-throw hips. :)

Kaylyn
11-28-2011, 01:43 AM
I would definitely try to find a women's self-defense course. And if you would like to build on the basics and can afford it, and are interested in martial arts, check out aikido. When done right, and not movie-fied like Steven Seagal's version of it, it is one of the purest self-defense arts out there. It's excellent for women because it's completely centered around throwing off the opponent's center of balance so you can get away. There's not a lot of punching or kicking; I know there are a few different styles, mine had absolutely ZERO punching/kicking as part of the art itself, merely used as tools to learn how to defend against said punches/kicks.

The hardest part is training yourself to move in a direction the attacker will not expect. We are wired to resist and push back; a woman can't do that, and can't overpower a larger attacker that way. You have to learn to move away and out of the direction of the attack, thus causing the attacker to stumble off balance where you can get him in a hold or else get the hell away.

When I took aikido (long time ago and I can't remember much of it, nor did I get very far in it) they took great joy in pitting me against the hugest guy in the class. It was actually easier to go against him rather than the tiny wiry guy because his center of balance was so high when he attacked me. We had a little seminar where the president and highest rank in our organization came over from Arizona and he, at one point, stopped the class and ran me through drills while everyone watched, then said, "She's doing this to perfection, because that's the only way she CAN do this against someone like him." And then he gave me my green belt. :P

Buglady
11-28-2011, 03:08 AM
Women, with our wider pelvises, are stronger at carrying heavy things around our hips than at our shoulders. ...

I have been doing pack fittings for a lot of women at my new job, and every single one of them has been surprised how much weight she can manage in a properly fitted pack with a hip belt. They've all had husbands or boyfriends set up their backpacks in the past, putting too much on the shoulders and throwing them off balance. All of these women thought they were wimpy until they learned where their centre of gravity was, and just how much sheer physical *power* they had in their hips and legs.

The really fun part is when the husband/boyfriend scoffs, says it can't possibly make that much difference, and tries to pick up the loaded pack :devil:

That said, becoming fit will always help in a danger situation. If you have that option, take it. :) And a style of fitness that helps you effectively deal with risky situations is useful.

Amen on the fitness. Again, the benefits are not just physical, but mental as well. I'm a fairly tall woman (5'8"), but kind of skinny. I was pretty inactive through my 20s and honestly not strong at all. I felt timid and scared a lot of the time - and also resentful, that my freedom to move around in my city was limited by fear.

However - in the last 5 years or so things have changed. I cycle a lot, and my last job involved slinging large bags of pet food around. I have about 20 pounds more muscle on me than you'd guess, and it feels so good to know I can run if I have to (or kick the living crap out of someone, whichever). I'd never have believed it of myself.

My boss asked me last year if I was worried about working at night. I told him I wore steel-toed shoes and had a lot of repressed rage, so no, I was fine with it! (...he thought I was kidding. I wasn't, much. I think I might be getting in touch with my berserker heritage).

Once a woman begins to feel more confident in terms of physical fitness, too, I think it makes her less likely to get sucked into the unhealthy social and dating situations that hinge on that whole "being nice" thing. Maybe once you move out of one "feminine" stereotype it makes it easier to question the rest?

Jester
11-28-2011, 06:54 AM
Did you talk with Jester?

Not as of yet, no.

However - in the last 5 years or so things have changed. I cycle a lot, and my last job involved slinging large bags of pet food around. I have about 20 pounds more muscle on me than you'd guess, and it feels so good to know I can run if I have to (or kick the living crap out of someone, whichever). I'd never have believed it of myself.

Stop it...you're turning me on. :lol:

PhiSigGirl1988
11-28-2011, 05:28 PM
Kisa, I think pretty much everyone here has covered everything, so I'll just say that I wish you the best of luck (and a fast recovery with the wisdom teeth). If you need any more suggestions or anything, let me know. I, too, am a Michigan girl and while I haven't personally gone through anything this bad, a couple of my friends have and so I've heard things from them.

Kisa
11-29-2011, 03:22 AM
Sorry for the lack of posts and I hope I didn't worry anybody. I'm ok and safe. I got all 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed Saturday morning under I.V. anesthesia and was send home with stitches, Penicillin 500mg, Dexamethasone .75mg, and Vicodin 500mg. With the anesthesia, swelling, bleeding and pain over the first day, I couldn't even see straight or stay awake long enough to do anything but take my pills. Day 2 I spent trying to remain conscious and walking around with help a bit. Today I was still dizzy and my face and throat area is still very swollen so talking and chewing is very difficult. I did get a text from my friend yesterday regarding his cousin. My friend has successfully cleared the call and text history from all 3 phones, deleted my number from 2, and changed my number on the third phone to a disconnected number so now his cousin thinks I changed my number and has finally stopped harassing me. I have also talked to my friend and he agreed to stop helping his cousin hide his illegal phones and make him do things on his own. I have taken self defense classes in the past and do have the number for the police in my phone. I decided as long as his cousin is living there, I will not go over to his house. I told him I no longer feel safe over there.

I think I caught all my typos but I am still disoriented so my apologies for any mistakes in this post. I just wanted to update everyone so no one worries :)

Seshat
11-29-2011, 09:53 AM
I think once people realised it was wisdom-teeth time, we knew you'd probably be in recovery from that; which explains the silence.

However the update sounds promising.

We wish you well.

Eisa
11-29-2011, 10:03 AM
I assumed she had been kidnapped by drop bears. -deadpan- :roll:

Kisa--glad the surgery went ok. Hope you start feeling better soon. :hug:

Hope the douche never tries to contact you again.

Seshat
11-29-2011, 11:23 PM
I assumed she had been kidnapped by drop bears. -deadpan- :roll:

The dropbears are really bad in South Aussieland this season. The Bureau of Meteorology has teamed up with Parks and Wildlife to put out Dropbear Alerts.

Kisa's area is on High dropbear alert, and residents have been warned not to leave the house without a spiked umbrella or parasol.

Aethian
11-30-2011, 02:12 AM
The dropbears are really bad in South Aussieland this season. The Bureau of Meteorology has teamed up with Parks and Wildlife to put out Dropbear Alerts.

Kisa's area is on High dropbear alert, and residents have been warned not to leave the house without a spiked umbrella or parasol.

But Kisa is near mitten land not aussieland...

Eisa
11-30-2011, 03:50 AM
The drop bears have begun migration.

ApolloSZ
11-30-2011, 04:00 AM
The drop bears have begun world domination.


Fixed that. Our lil birds are sharpening their beaks in preperation to defend our shores XD

Hope your feeling better Kisa.

*sings* All I want for christmas is my two front teef..."

XCashier
11-30-2011, 05:55 AM
The drop bears have begun migration.
Yeah, but they'll have to deal with the jackalopes first. :D

flybye023
11-30-2011, 02:15 PM
And the snipes. Both can be very territorial. :devil:

BeenThereDoneThat
12-02-2011, 06:19 AM
Kisa, I just read through about 8 pages of this thread - I'd read the ones before but then lost track.

For some reason I have a real obsession with true crime and criminal psychology. That guy is a complete psychopath IMO and I'm glad that you have taken steps to protect yourself - also that the wonderful people here at CS have given you some very good advice. I also recommend reading The Gift of Fear; I downloaded it to my iPad after someone on here recommended it and I found it very enlightening as well.

Best wishes for feeling 100% after the wisdom teeth extraction :)

Zellie Crescent
12-09-2011, 12:27 AM
How about an update? Are you ok, what happened with the asshole, do you need me to kick the shit out of him to get him to leave you alone?

EricKei
12-09-2011, 01:32 AM
I'm just getting to this one, and anything I can think of to say has already been said, multiple times. ^_^;>

So, yeah -- feel better soon (I had my wisdom teeth taken out as a child, not pleasant. Might have been nicer if the laughing gas did more than make mu extremities feel numb) >_<

If he somehow tracks you down physically, call the cops ASAP because it will mean he's a sex offender within danger range of a school; they will not be inclined to make a call like that "low priority". Nail his ass to the WALL and do everything in your power to appear to be "not at home". If you think he knows you're there, set off the house alarm, hit PANIC on your car keys, set off the fire alarm if you have to. At this point, the danger would be imminent; do what you must.

If he somehow recalls your number (maybe he had it written down somewhere, and sooner or later I gotta imagine he'll either figure out what happened or just give up), GO TO THE COPS right away and do the text thing. At this point, he will be aware that he's been tricked -- and not just by you, by people close to him who could also be in danger now because of him. NOTE -- any danger would be HIS fault, NOT yours. This guy is sounds like a texbook world-class manipulator/asshole who "always gets what he wants". Don't let him.

Self-Defense classes never hurt...so to speak. While I pray you never have to use them, the self-confidence they inspire could help you out in many unrelated ways, as well. Just remember the sage advice given here already: If you can run, RUN and shout. If you can't run, disable and keep shouting (oddly/sadly enough, I suspect yelling FIRE will get a bigger response than HELP or RAPE), then run as soon as you can break free. If you can't disable, nuke the bastitch from orbit. ;)

dragon_wings
12-09-2011, 03:27 AM
I suspect yelling FIRE will get a bigger response than HELP or RAPE

When I was getting ready to move to Baltimore's ghetto that's what my sister told me. And my brother in law agreed.
Thankfully in the 8 and a half months of living in the ghetto I have yet to have to need to do that. (my sister had said that I now walk with a purpose and give off a 'don't fuck with this chick' vibe. Though that won't be enough to dissuade a seriously disturbed person.)

Jester
12-12-2011, 01:08 AM
oddly/sadly enough, I suspect yelling FIRE will get a bigger response than HELP or RAPE

It has been proven on multiple occasions that that is, in fact, true. And many self-defense classes teach people to do just that.

ShadowBall
12-12-2011, 08:22 AM
Agreed on the yelling of "fire." I don't know why people tend to respond to that more than anything else, though. Is it an automatic means of self-preservation in that if they try to assist a victim of abuse or rape, they themselves may end up getting hurt or killed, but if they believe there's a fire, someone is more likely to call 911 because it's a common emergency addressed rather than, "Someone's getting beat up on 17th Street!" I'd love to learn more about why shouting "fire" is best in the minds of those within earshot.

I've also heard coughing all over a mugger can sometimes scare them off too...as in they don't want to be near your ass if you're sick. I have not tried this myself, but have read of others who have had success with it.

Jester
12-12-2011, 08:25 AM
The idea of yelling "fire" instead of "rape" is that a lot of times, people just don't want to get involved. They hear someone yelling "rape," many people will try to ignore it and find somewhere else to be, figuring it's not their problem, or perhaps it's a date gone awry and it's a domestic situation, which as any cop can tell you, is a very volatile situation.

However, when people hear "fire" it's different, as there is clearly no grey area with fire...it's dangerous to everyone, and there can be no misunderstanding if someone is yelling "fire."

At least, that's what I've been told and read, and what I believe.

Kaylyn
12-12-2011, 11:44 AM
Having had a house catch fire across the street and seeing the reactions of people, which is to flock TO the fire to watch it burn, I'd always assumed that was why. You're getting attacked, you yell FIRE, and everyone comes running to see it, thus scaring off the attacker. Or he might assume that would happen, and runs off before you get seriously hurt.