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Kara
01-22-2013, 07:30 PM
So, I finally got Paper Mario: Sticker Star for the 3DS. It's a great game, I had no doubt it would be otherwise. But something irks me, which isn't the game's fault. Why the hell do they not make actual manuals for 3DS games? For that matter, a lot of Wii games were like this, and I can only presume it's the same way for the WiiU. In the case of the 3DS, you get a single fold-out sheet that gives you the basic commands and very tiny bit of gameplay info.

I know how to play this game, that is, I know the basics already. I've been playing this series since it's spiritual ancestor, Super Mario RPG on the SNES. But there is this annoying trend over the years where they don't give you as much information before you play the game, which creates the need for the game itself to grind to a halt so it can inform you of all the things they could have told you in a manual. Which pulls you out of the game. Especially in the very beginning where every few seconds the game has to stop and tell you what to do. Even very basic things you should inherently know. Because the devs feel guilty about sending you in blind and they feel like they have to make up for it by holding your hand. That way they feel like they can't be blamed for not properly informing you. Which they could have done by just making a more in-depth manual as opposed to creating EXTRA work for the programmers by having to construct so many tutorials you can't bypass (and also could have avoided disrupting the flow of the game). Besides, I don't need a game to hold my hand, I have a girlfriend who does that just fine and is much better at it.

Then there are the things they DON'T tell you within the mess of tutorials in the first part of the games. For instance, in Sticker Star, they don't have any descriptions of items. All you have is the in-game description. One item I found told me that it's use is unknown and that I should sell it at a shop. And it sells for a decent price. What nothing in the game tells me, however, is that this item will cause every attack I make to do more damage and allow me to block every incoming attack for a short period of time. So why would I want to sell it, why would they even SUGGEST selling it? So why do games even bother force-feeding me information I can figure out just fine on my own and neglect to tell me things I really should know?

It's just annoying. It's like, how everyone hated Navi in Zelda: OoT. And as a cruel joke, all games have a "Navi" now.

Another thing 3DS games need to do is stop fucking telling me to take a break so I don't hurt my eyes. Seriously, I got enough of that from my mother 25 years ago.

Kheldarson
01-22-2013, 07:44 PM
Navi tells you to take a break too in the 3DS version....like she wasn't talkative enough as is >.<

Fi still takes the cake on most annoying computer guide, though. Oh dear lord.

But yeah, everything gives you hints on how to do stuff anymore. And no way to turn them off. I'm just glad Kingdom Hearts hasn't bought into it yet.

Kara
01-22-2013, 07:46 PM
Reminded myself of this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM). It's NSFW because Ego drops more F-Bombs-per-minute than the AVGN, but it perfectly illustrates what I'm complaining about.

ApolloSZ
01-22-2013, 07:51 PM
Money. Simply. They cost money (printing manuals that is). So, why not put stuff in the game, and use less printing. And I agree, its stupid. But I cheat, I use a tablet and look at the Wiki when I'm not sure about an item or I'm lost.

Andara Bledin
01-22-2013, 08:08 PM
What ApolloSZ said.

It costs money to design, print, pack, and ship all that fancy paper and much, much less to do code in the game, instead.

However, there should be an option in-game to set how basic you want your tutorial info (with the ability to look it up in-game if you don't know something they class as below your chosen level) as opposed to telling you even the most simple of information.

^-.-^

Elspeth
01-22-2013, 08:09 PM
also they can sell the guides for the games.

Navi needs to die, with a flamethrower.

jedimaster91
01-22-2013, 08:21 PM
But yeah, everything gives you hints on how to do stuff anymore. And no way to turn them off. I'm just glad Kingdom Hearts hasn't bought into it yet.

Shhh! Don't give Square Enix any ideas! :p

KH: Birth By Sleep does have a tutorial, but it's skippable after your first time playing. And that's pretty awesome. A couple of the games also give you hints about how to beat bosses....on the Game Over screen. "Hmm, you died again. Maybe you need more levels." No, really? :rolleyes:

Kheldarson
01-22-2013, 08:22 PM
Squeenix already has the idea...have you played FF XIII??

I'm just praying the KH side of house doesn't pull it from the FF side of house.

Kara
01-22-2013, 08:55 PM
Shhh! Don't give Square Enix any ideas! :p


I disagree. Lately it seems they need all the ideas they can get :P

AmbrosiaWriter
01-22-2013, 08:58 PM
Personally I blame gamers more than the devs for this crap. You have no idea how much crying there used to be from people about how they had no idea what to do and the game sucked. Then when they were told to RTFM (read the fucking manual) they'd kick up a shit storm about that as well.

It's the same when anyone buys anything new and shiny. They toss the manual away and just start smashing things, then throw a hiss fit when it either breaks or they can't figure out how to change a setting or something. Then they are told "Well it was in the manual" and the response is "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO READ THE MANUAL!!!"

No win situation, apparently. It'd be nice if the developers would implement a "Skip the tutorial" button, but then I think a reinstatement of the "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PLAY THE TUTORIAL" would follow. Though I would hope that this go around everyone would pull up their adult diapers and holler back at the idiots, "WELL IT'S YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT THEN."

Kara
01-22-2013, 09:18 PM
See, back when Video Stores existed, I often blatantly defied reading the manuals. I could figure the games out on my own, cause I was a badass gamer girl. But then sometimes I'd find out something important I missed because I didn't read it, and it was totally on me. But as there is no personal accountability anymore, I can completely believe that.

Zapper
01-22-2013, 09:27 PM
Better guides hit the Internet almost immediately after the game is released. If it costs money to print proper manuals, and the net beats their manuals, why do it?

Antisocial_Worker
01-22-2013, 09:29 PM
I'm increasingly becoming a Luddite when it comes to gaming. I've yet to find a game for the PS3 that would justify buying one, and the only reason I ever asked for a Wii was to download old SNES favorites. I've hated every Final Fantasy that came out after FFVII and by this point have given up on them.

As I've said before, I want a game to tell me a story. I want it to have a definite beginning, middle, and end and I want it to do what it does very well. I do not want a game that wanders endlessly all over the world(s), spawning expansion packs like gaily-gotten bastards, with no end to any of it. And because I want that, the gaming world is leaving me far, far behind.

AmbrosiaWriter
01-22-2013, 10:07 PM
Games are slowly becoming more like books (and books series) but they're doing it all the wrong ways. As a book series, each book is supposed to have a contained beginning, middle, and end, and then each book adds to the larger beginning, middle, and end.

Unfortunately, we have games doing it more along the lines of, "This game is the beginning, then the next X games are the middle, then maybe we'll have an ending."

The only games series that immediately pops to mind as doing it the right way is Mass Effect. Each Mass Effect game had its own, completely contained beginning, middle, and end and they all added to the over arching story (whether or not you liked the final ending doesn't change the fact that it was a final ending.)

We just have stuff like Call of Duty which is just "Here are some differently skinned maps and weapons, and maybe a game play upgrade, have fun." Which to me is really annoying.

I want to get into writing the content, story, characters, etc. for video games, but as of right now a vast majority of the video game industry doesn't see the value of having a well trained and strong writer. Or if they do have some idea, they immediately want writers that have already published books never mind the fact that writing for a video game is very different than writing for say, a book, TV show, or movie. *headdesk*

Kheldarson
01-22-2013, 10:53 PM
I'm increasingly becoming a Luddite when it comes to gaming. I've yet to find a game for the PS3 that would justify buying one, and the only reason I ever asked for a Wii was to download old SNES favorites. I've hated every Final Fantasy that came out after FFVII and by this point have given up on them.

As I've said before, I want a game to tell me a story. I want it to have a definite beginning, middle, and end and I want it to do what it does very well. I do not want a game that wanders endlessly all over the world(s), spawning expansion packs like gaily-gotten bastards, with no end to any of it. And because I want that, the gaming world is leaving me far, far behind.

I'd say you'd enjoy FFIX and XII then, which are great stories, but sounds like you didn't necessarily like those either.

I think a big thing with the tutorial issue is most games haven't figured out how to incorporate it right. You can have a decent tutorial by having it be something that makes sense in game. Like I've been told Halo takes you through basic training (as in you've been out of commission, so now they're getting your baseline). That makes sense.

Having constant reminders of how to do things or a completely separate out of context tutorial? That's bad game design.

Antisocial_Worker
01-23-2013, 12:08 AM
I'd say you'd enjoy FFIX and XII then, which are great stories, but sounds like you didn't necessarily like those either.


Nah, I didn't much care for them... Although the reason why was a personal quirk. I really can't stand the notion of a hundred different races of "metahumans," which ruined 9 for me (and also Chrono Cross, because there was only one race of metahuman in Chrono Trigger, but suddenly anthropomorphized animals everywhere in Cross), and it also just seems that with the advent of Final Fantasy X (whiniest main character EVER), they devolved into style over substance in everything from the way the characters looked to the architecture of the buildings they explored. To this day, I still think the very best Final Fantasy was 6, because of the steampunk elements, the technological revolution, and the look and feel of the world -- which looked an awful lot like an English village circa 1890 deep in the throes of modernization. I loved that look and feel, and nothing since has come close, although I did also like the look and feel of VII with its modernity and urban decay.

Other games I especially like are the Shin Megami Tensei Persona series, Shadow Hearts, and the first and original Wild ARMs.

Kheldarson
01-23-2013, 12:36 AM
I can dig the reason. I find the metahuman thing cute, personally, but I can get it.

Kabe loves FFVI himself. He can still recite the opera from memory.

And I enjoy the Wild ARMs series as well. The gameplay drives me batty sometimes, but I do enjoy their stories.

Kara
01-23-2013, 12:41 AM
I really can't stand the notion of a hundred different races of "metahumans," which ruined 9 for me (and also Chrono Cross, because there was only one race of metahuman in Chrono Trigger, but suddenly anthropomorphized animals everywhere in Cross)

I didn't like the character designs of FFIX, but they kind of grew on my as I played the game. As for Chrono Cross, what killed it was them deciding to take one of the most whimsical-yet-awesome games ever, and give it to the Xenogears dev team so they could turn it into a dark tale full of angst and depressing outcomes for everyone. Oh, and all those beloved characters from Chrono Trigger? Yeah, they all died horribly. Somehow.

And yes, FFVI was the best and I am STILL waiting on my 3D, fully voiced remake like they did with FFIII and IV. Of course, now it will come with 10 million mandatory tutorials for every little thing :P

jedimaster91
01-23-2013, 02:27 AM
I'd be ecstatic with a FFVII remake with an accurate translation ("This guy are sick" lol) and PS3 level graphics. The polygons were revolutionary for the time, but now they're a little creepy, TBH.

AmbrosiaWriter
01-23-2013, 02:31 AM
I don't think anything beats the translation issue from the NES game Metal Gear.

You move one screen down from your start position -yes at the very beginning of the game! - and immediately see this guard guy standing next a covered cargo truck. Instantly the guard screams, "I'M GETTING SLEEPY!!!" (yes! With exclamation points!) Then you see him fall asleep and can hop into the cargo transport.

I nearly peed myself laughing the first time I saw that.

RayvenQ
01-23-2013, 03:12 AM
We just have stuff like Call of Duty which is just "Here are some differently skinned maps and weapons, and maybe a game play upgrade, have fun." Which to me is really annoying.

Money talks, and games like CoD sell really well. Black Ops 2 for example, made $500 Million in the first Week (or may have even been weekend)

For big publishers, it's about what sells, so if they can get away with rehashing something that was popular, they will. It's sad but true, Big publishers don't do innovation/new ideas all that well, since with it comes the risk of it not selling well.

But that gap is slowly being filled with indie developers, whpo are more willingto try something new, and with crowd funding becoming a popular thing, we'll see more of it in the future.

Kheldarson
01-23-2013, 10:23 AM
I didn't like the character designs of FFIX, but they kind of grew on my as I played the game. As for Chrono Cross, what killed it was them deciding to take one of the most whimsical-yet-awesome games ever, and give it to the Xenogears dev team so they could turn it into a dark tale full of angst and depressing outcomes for everyone. Oh, and all those beloved characters from Chrono Trigger? Yeah, they all died horribly. Somehow.

And yes, FFVI was the best and I am STILL waiting on my 3D, fully voiced remake like they did with FFIII and IV. Of course, now it will come with 10 million mandatory tutorials for every little thing :P

Kabe would love to see, and I'd have to agree with him, a prequel game to VI. As in, let's see the War of the Mages. If they can do it for VII....

Gravekeeper
01-23-2013, 10:50 AM
You move one screen down from your start position -yes at the very beginning of the game! - and immediately see this guard guy standing next a covered cargo truck. Instantly the guard screams, "I'M GETTING SLEEPY!!!" (yes! With exclamation points!) Then you see him fall asleep and can hop into the cargo transport.


It was worse than that, he yelled "I FEEL ASLEEP" as I recall.

I don't miss manuals. Saves some trees. They don't make manuals like they did back then anyway. Save for Blizzard who still approachs manuals as works of art. Besides, old console manuals use to be for the story since the games at the time weren't advanced enough to convey a ton of plot set up. Use to be that you read the manual so you knew wtf was going on. Because the game wasn't going to tell you beyond a couple lines of text at the start or a 10 second cut scene.

The problem is designing an in-game alternative. Some companies do it right, some do it wrong ( Square Enix, Nintendo in some cases ). Square Enix is particularly inept in this regard. I had more tutorial cut scenes than battles in the first hour of Kingdom Hearts 3DS -.-

Nevermind what they've done to Final Fantasy.

Kara
01-23-2013, 12:57 PM
Yeah, when I made the mistake of playing Final Fantasy XIII, they tried to make it part of the story but failed utterly because I only thought I really understood the mechanics of the battle system and I didn't find out until a major boss fight that I had missed something important somewhere. Plus they made the characters look like slobbering idiots. In fact, the main character acted like it was a complete waste of time and an a total annoyance to have to teach the secondary character how to play the game. Protip: If your own game is irritated at having to teach us how to play, if the character you have conducting the tutorial sighs and rolls her eyes at having to do so, you're doing it wrong.

Better implementation can't be as hard as they seem to think it is.

Eevie
01-23-2013, 01:17 PM
Personally, I liked something that was present in the game "Pokemon Ranger: Guardian Signs". For those like me who aren't strangers to the series and have played since the beginning, you are given the option of completely skippable tutorials, aside from some new aspects introduced. It would be awesome if more games could have something like that. It would definitely make replaying a game a lot less annoying.

jedimaster91
01-23-2013, 01:27 PM
The problem is designing an in-game alternative. Some companies do it right, some do it wrong ( Square Enix, Nintendo in some cases ). Square Enix is particularly inept in this regard. I had more tutorial cut scenes than battles in the first hour of Kingdom Hearts 3DS -.-

Nevermind what they've done to Final Fantasy.

KH games ALWAYS have a ton of tutorial/exposition cutscenes at the beginning. KH2 Prologue, anyone? >.< At least DDD wasn't that bad, although the New Game+ should let you skip the Dream Eater creation tutorial.

RayvenQ
01-23-2013, 02:21 PM
My personal peeve is in RTS games when they have unskippable cutscenes that not only put your view half way over the map and then even worse when they leave you over there and dont move you back, that on higher difficulties the second or two you waste moving your view back can be the difference between winning an losing.

Dilorenzo
01-23-2013, 02:46 PM
Honestly, I've found myself moving away from most Triple A gaming recently. Indie games tend to take more risks and have more interesting, emotional stories or experiences for me. I haven't been able to stop hyping To The Moon, Journey or Lone Survivor quite enough, to the point I am actually forcing my wife to play To The Moon right now.

That's not to say I don't play some triple A - I just find myself less excited about a lot of the larger games. Next big western title I want is Bioshock Infinite, and I just picked up Ni No Kuni - but that's about it.

Regarding manuals, it's a 50% "money saver" and 50% "being green" thing. Packaging less paper in their less plastic boxes is a big checkmark for when they get audited for their environmental output.

And, to be honest, I don't really miss the manuals, except, like GK noted above, for the ones that actually had something to them. I can't remember the last time I saw an awesome manual.

May have been Grim Fandango, actually...

While the constant tutorials do annoy me, it's nowhere near as bad to me as "hey, we're going to highlight every handhold you can use when you're climbing so you don't go the worng way" thing that's going on right now. Can't have us exploring, so everything should be nice and spelled out. Sometimes I like going the wrong way, damnit. I like to learn not to go that way again, because of spikes or whatever.

Prince of Persia is a great example of the above. While the original, and the PS2 version (Sands of Time, I didn't play the others) were challenging and rewarding to explore and experience, the one with Nolan North was just terrible. You literally could not die. I tried quite a few times, to see if I could make it happen, but couldn't.

Story wasn't even that good.

*sniffs and pushes glasses back from point of nose*

Andara Bledin
01-23-2013, 03:25 PM
The old Atari Lynx games all had on-card manuals. As in, there was a screen you could go to to learn how to play the game that was entirely independent of the actual game.

As for in-game teaching, The Bard's Tale strikes a good balance, although it could be a little more informative for a couple of things that I still don't know what they do, despite having reached the final boss. >_<

^-.-^

wolfie
01-23-2013, 03:55 PM
While the constant tutorials do annoy me, it's nowhere near as bad to me as "hey, we're going to highlight every handhold you can use when you're climbing so you don't go the worng way" thing that's going on right now. Can't have us exploring, so everything should be nice and spelled out. Sometimes I like going the wrong way, damnit. I like to learn not to go that way again, because of spikes or whatever.

That's not a new phenomenon. Back in the late '80s, "Ford Simulator" (basically a non-scored driving game put out by "blue oval" where you could use any of their then-current products) took the "hand-holding" route. Want to go off-roading in the Explorer? Sorry, it guides you back to the road. Pick something with a stick, get it up to 60 MPH, and do a 5-1 shift? Nothing - given the state of the art in home computers at the time, I can understand not having an animated engine fly up through the hood, but not even a message "In a real car, this would destroy your engine. Press ENTER to continue." There's always someone who will try to push the limits - anticipate this.

PepperElf
01-23-2013, 03:57 PM
Money. Simply. They cost money (printing manuals that is). So, why not put stuff in the game, and use less printing. And I agree, its stupid. But I cheat, I use a tablet and look at the Wiki when I'm not sure about an item or I'm lost.

that's probably why.

and why most manuals sold are for the big plot-driven games... or as it's said... games designed to make you want to buy expensive manuals just so you can figure out how to play etc.

i mean look at skyrim. the book sells for almost the same price as the game. :eek: that's how they get you.

ApolloSZ
01-23-2013, 07:22 PM
Money talks, and games like CoD sell really well. Black Ops 2 for example, made $500 Million in the first Week (or may have even been weekend)
[snip] But that gap is slowly being filled with indie developers, whpo are more willingto try something new, and with crowd funding becoming a popular thing, we'll see more of it in the future.

Honestly, I've found myself moving away from most Triple A gaming recently. Indie games tend to take more risks and have more interesting, emotional stories or experiences for me. That's not to say I don't play some triple A - I just find myself less excited about a lot of the larger games. Next big western title I want is Bioshock Infinite, and I just picked up Ni No Kuni - but that's about it. [snip]

Both of these quoted for truth. My Flatmate and I had a discussion recently, and we pretty much had the same conclusion. He brought Hitman Absolution, and was sorely dissappointed in it. He's sworn off any Triple A games from now on.
Most of the recent games I've brought, I've been dissappointed in. I don't bother rushing out for release day purchases now. I'll wait and see what reviews, and friends say.

Gears of War I loved for the story line. And the fact that GoW 3 had a definitive ending (which is sorely lacking in some games these days) - Enemy A died, Enemy B died. Thats it. No continuing. Their only option (which they are making) is a prequel :lol:. After Gears, its kind of been meh.

Halo 4 was dissapointing for anything other than the Story Line. They changed what didn't need to be changed, and Spartan ops was promising, but became Hordes mode, poorly done. Halo: Reach is the superior game in that series IMO.

Space Marine - Well..... I'm just not going into it. Haven't touched it in months (possibly a year).

Whereas Minecraft (yes I know) - I still have fun (A key part of gaming for me) playing that. And thats still on Vanilla (no mods etc)

Fallout 3 and New Vegas - Almost infinitely replayable - I've completed them atleast twice.

Farcry 3 - I do want to get it. I've been hearing good things, both via the Roosterteeth guys and my friends. Sounds like it was done right.

Kheldarson
01-23-2013, 08:00 PM
KH games ALWAYS have a ton of tutorial/exposition cutscenes at the beginning. KH2 Prologue, anyone? >.< At least DDD wasn't that bad, although the New Game+ should let you skip the Dream Eater creation tutorial.

At least, to an extent, the KH2 prologue made sense story-wise. Without any of the later filler games (like 356/2), you can't really just start with Sora.

Doesn't make it any less annoying though....

Andara Bledin
01-23-2013, 08:09 PM
Whereas Minecraft (yes I know) - I still have fun (A key part of gaming for me) playing that. And thats still on Vanilla (no mods etc)
We've been playing the FTB BetaA pack on the server we've got (Nekojin is running it and it's tied in with our local gaming convention), and there are some awesome mods out there.

And that doesn't even get into the fantastic texture packs. :D

^-.-^

jedimaster91
01-23-2013, 09:46 PM
At least, to an extent, the KH2 prologue made sense story-wise. Without any of the later filler games (like 356/2), you can't really just start with Sora.

Doesn't make it any less annoying though....

After you play Days, the KH2 prologue is about a zillion times more depressing.

I do have to say, for the most part, they're getting better. When new abilities or somesuch are acquired, there's a brief screen to explain it and in DDD, you can even go back and look at them again if you forget what they do. Or skip them altogether. It's a fine line to walk because long time fans who know how to play the game are going to be annoyed no matter which way it falls. Too much hand holding or not enough direction, either extreme is bad. And then you've got to accommodate the new players (although in KH's case, starting the series with DDD is a surefire way to end up with a migraine. It's hard to make sense of even if you've played the whole series).

Kheldarson
01-23-2013, 09:52 PM
Oh gods, yes. Heck, I'm just getting to the ending of 3D, and I'm getting depressed again.

Oh Xion....*sobs*

Geek King
01-23-2013, 11:55 PM
I'm increasingly becoming a Luddite when it comes to gaming. I've yet to find a game for the PS3 that would justify buying one, and the only reason I ever asked for a Wii was to download old SNES favorites. I've hated every Final Fantasy that came out after FFVII and by this point have given up on them.


I'm going to suggest you look up Resonance of Fate and any of the recent non-Disgaea games from NIS (Sold through NIS America) like Trinity Universe. RoF in particular is very origonal, and battles play out like a John Woo flick, once you understand the game.

NOTE: Disgaea is great, but not really for someone looking for a directed game experience :p

Kheldarson
01-24-2013, 12:10 AM
I'm going to suggest you look up Resonance of Fate and any of the recent non-Disgaea games from NIS (Sold through NIS America) like Trinity Universe. RoF in particular is very origonal, and battles play out like a John Woo flick, once you understand the game.

NOTE: Disgaea is great, but not really for someone looking for a directed game experience :p

NOT RoF *shudders* That's a god-awful battle system.

AmbrosiaWriter
01-24-2013, 12:32 AM
I liked Resonance of Fate's battle system, it took a few battles to really get into the groove of it, but that's what I enjoy. A game that isn't instantly "Here's how you do it, now you never have to worry about Game Over" which I experience way too much in current generation games.

Hell, I'm so sick of it that I'm replaying Baldur's Gate.

jedimaster91
01-24-2013, 01:03 AM
Oh gods, yes. Heck, I'm just getting to the ending of 3D, and I'm getting depressed again.

Oh Xion....*sobs*

I seem to be the only person in the universe who didn't like Xion. The game would have been just fine with only Roxas and Axel. The only part of it that makes me tear up is how berserk Roxas went after, well, you know.

Kheldarson
01-24-2013, 10:16 AM
It was more the relationship between the three. It tore me to pieces how it ended.

SongsOfDragons
01-25-2013, 12:03 AM
I'm another gaming Luddite...but I don't think I was ever that intense a gamer. I usually prefer watching people play some games rather than play them myself - watching Housemate play the Legacy of Kain games is especially fun. ^^ I think the only RPG I've played thay has parties and stats and everything that isn't Pokémon is Golden Sun.

Though I have some favourites. I got Link's Awakening for the Virtual Console last week. Is it wrong I still know it off by heart after five years since my last playthrough XD

jedimaster91
01-25-2013, 12:08 AM
In case you haven't been following, Square Enix has announced a KH HD remake for the PS3. Release date in Japan is in March. So, um, this pic was apparently put on instagram by Jesse McCartney. For those of you who don't know, he is the English voice of Roxas (and Ven) in Kingdom Hearts. So, I'll just leave this here (http://instagram.com/p/U4h_uvLg8g/).




*SQUEEE!* :bounce::bounce:

Kheldarson
01-25-2013, 12:54 AM
Link doesn't work!!

But I had heard and I'm waiting ever so impatiently for it...

jedimaster91
01-25-2013, 01:43 AM
Hmm, looks like it got pulled. But it was a pic in a recording studio with an image of Roxas on the screen. Looked like the scene might have been from Days.

Kheldarson
01-25-2013, 03:04 AM
Kewl. Too bad it got pulled.

Chromatix
01-27-2013, 10:09 PM
As an example of an older game that gets this right, I present Freespace 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRqn0hzoy4c). Actually, Freespace 1 had a similar structure as well, but FS2 is better known.

First, the title cutscene gives you a pretty good idea of what the game is about and what you'll be doing. As if the box art didn't give that away. It's a starfighter game - the last of it's kind before the big publishers gave up on the genre. (Apparently FS2 was extremely poorly marketed, so it didn't sell - despite rave reviews and very good player loyalty to the genre. Publishers saw the bad sales numbers and decided that the genre was dead.)

The next thing you get is a couple of welcome briefings from your Admiral and your squadron commander, so you get your bearings in the universe a bit. The commander mentions the ship and basic weapons that you're currently allowed to use, then says "If you need to review your training, now would be a good time to do so."

Then the first three missions are skippable tutorials, walking you through the basic controls and giving you a bit of dogfighting practice against very dumb and weak drones. They are extremely tedious for experienced players to sit through, so the fact that they can be skipped is excellent.

The following three missions are very much on the easy side, focusing on establishing the early plotline. In fact they are well balanced - novices only need to survive to progress while their AI wingmen are capable of completing the mission themselves, while experienced players find a decent array of stretch goals to provide some challenge.

This is then followed by a ship and weapon upgrade, triggered by transfer to another squadron, which in turn triggers another pair of tutorial missions. These are also skippable - in fact *all* tutorials can be skipped.

After that, the real action begins, as the fresh wave of alien invasion is revealed - who are a much tougher foe than the terrorists from the early missions. There are a couple more tutorials later in the campaign, covering more advanced tactics, but these appear just before you need to use them.

Cutscenes appear occasionally, but cover storyline information between missions rather than interrupting one already in progress. They are certainly not used as tutorial material.

Overall, it definitely earned those rave reviews I mentioned. I'm just glad that two very well-known developers from the genre are getting back into it now as independents.

Dilorenzo
01-29-2013, 12:11 PM
Publishers saw the bad sales numbers and decided that the genre was dead.)

They said the same thing for adventure gaming. Then Kickstarter kicked that idea right in the nadgers.

Chromatix
01-30-2013, 01:43 PM
Which is also what's happening for space games now - with both Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous breaking crowdfunding records. Star Citizen (with it's unfortunate initials from this forum's point of view) broke the overall crowdfunding record with over $7M, and Elite: Dangerous broke the Kickstarter record with over $1.5M.

Neither of those are, strictly speaking, pure combat sims like Freespace, but Star Citizen does have a single-player submode, named Squadron 42, which should be pretty close to the Wing Commander tradition.