Aw Hell: keeps turning up like the proverbial bad penny (lengthy)

[Pixilated]

So I am trying (really) to get order out of the chaos of my finances. Can't say I'm doing all that great but it's not the fault of my creditors.

Although in the case of Aw Hell, of course, I'm quite prepared to modify that opinion.

A little B/G: I did have a small debt to them that went to collection. I told the collection agent that I hadn't yet sent back the modem and she said, "Oh, I'll bet that's part of it." So I sent back the modem and paid off the remainder. She let me know the modem had been tracked back to where it was supposed to go and the payment confirmed. This all happened last October. Yay!

Well ... lately I've been getting increasingly angry phone calls from some dude claiming to be from Aw Hell International. The last one was ratcheted way up: "THIS IS YOUR FINAL CALL BEFORE WE TAKE ACTION AND ARGLBLARGLRANTRAVEELEVENTY!!!"

I didn't want to deal with this twit and besides, as far as I knew, I no longer owed Aw Hell anything. Then a bright idea hits me: I've still got the number of the collection agency, and in fact I've got the agent's name and extension number. So I call.

Well, collections must be a bad game to get into because the extension no longer works and the person I'm talking to doesn't recognize the name but says she will help me instead. I'm pleased.

For about 10 minutes.

She has to repeatedly confirm information. REPEATEDLY. I think she asked for my account number at least six times; she asked for my name three or four times; she asked "Oh, you lived in [city] in the Niagara Region?" at least three times; she checks to ask my current phone number three or four times ... she keeps telling me she's got to confirm that she's got the right person and the right account.

Okay, I understand that ... but should this process alone take 30+ minutes??

Anyway, we FINALLY get through the identification confirmation process and she tells me that ... I still owe $100. Apparently the price of the modem was NOT considered to be part of the previous bill ... ... so of course its return didn't affect the bill at all.

So I ran down to the bank to pay the remaining money and get a confirmation number, which I will phone in tomorrow, and wrote "The REALLY final payment" on the bank receipt.

As aggravating as Bothered and Bewildered Collections Agency was, I'm still happier that I was able to deal with them rather than with Psycho Aw Hell Rep.

I have to admit, though, that I'm curious as to what Aw Hell would have done in the face of a measly $100 debt ...

[MadMike]

They would have kept trying to collect it. I had a collection agency call me over a hospital bill for half of that amount from a little over a year ago. It seems that the hospital had tried to send the bill to an address that I had moved out of roughly 13 years ago, and since I never received the bill, I forgot all about it. Once I was certain they weren't a scammer, I paid it over the phone, and that was the end of it.

[Pixilated]

That in itself wouldn't have surprised me. But from the tone of the guy's voice (he's one of nature's Natural Shouters, I think), I was almost expecting a visit in the wee hours from a couple of very large specimens with sloping foreheads and single-syllable vocabularies.

Also, I very much hope this is the end of it. I've heard stories from people who've paid off their final Aw Hell bill but years later were still getting menacing calls about it -- even though it wasn't unusual for them to call the Customer Service (ha) Department and get confirmation that no, they did not in fact owe Aw Hell anything.

[MoonCat]

I don't know if you're in the states or in Canada (Niagara region...) but I would check online to see what the laws are regarding debts. In the states, if you ask them to provide confirmation of the debt, they have to do so. You can also get their name and address, and send them a letter telling them to NOT contact you by phone; if contacted in writing for this they have to abide by this request. They can still take other actions thought so you'd want to make sure you actually owe the money before you pay it.

I don't know about Canada but I would think at a minimum that they have to at least provide proof that you still owe the debt.

Just in case you ever hear about this again. Wouldn't be the first time. Collection agencies sell accounts to other agencies if they can't collect. Sometimes if one agent can't collect, the account is given to another agent at the same company, and you all go around and around about it.

[NecessaryCatharsis]

I don't know about Canada but I would think at a minimum that they have to at least provide proof that you still owe the debt.

Just in case you ever hear about this again. Wouldn't be the first time. Collection agencies sell accounts to other agencies if they can't collect. Sometimes if one agent can't collect, the account is given to another agent at the same company, and you all go around and around about it.

Every six months or so I start to receive phone calls and letters about a car loan 'I never paid off' (I have paid cash for every vehicle I have purchased). I can't get more information from the bank the loan was owed to (which I have never dealt with) than a statement of payment dates, with an outstanding balance, and a first initial and last name on the top of the account. No addresses, first name, birthdate, or anything else that would identify the person who took out the loan. The bank has to 'protect their customers identity'. (I also have an extremely common name, so their are a lot of people with my first initial and last name out there)

No matter how many times I tell the collections people when they call that it is not my loan, no I have no intention of paying for it, now or ever, yes please take me to court, I assure you a judge will require more proof of a loan taking place than just a printed out statement and maybe will actually sort this out, and oh, stop calling me 5 times a day you are annoying! I continue to receive several calls a day from them for a few weeks before they give up, probably sell the account to someone else, and it starts again in 6 months or so.

As to Pixilated and what they would have done to your $100 debt, I suspect they would have done similar to you as they do to me. They never do anything other than call and belittle and insult me several times a day for a few weeks, then go away. They refuse to follow through on any of their threats, especially take me to court which I have begged all of them to do. It got a little boring, so I started having fun with it, and seeing how long I could keep them on the phone wasting their time with me before they get fed up and hang up (personal record 27 minutes).

[Racket_Man]

That is as bad as receiving 6-10 phone calls a DAY 7 DAYS A WEEK (robo-calls) for someone who does not even live at my home, never lived in my home nor are we even related to. Immediate family does NOT know who this person is and have never heard of this person. This has been going for about a year now

The only thing my GF shares with this person is the last name. NO sisters have <first name MI> of the person they are looking for, NO children have this name either. There are 75 persons in the local phone book who have the same last name but NO ONE with <first name MI>.

All the collection agency does is robo-call, leave no message and then hang up. Even if we do answer the phone the line still disconnects. MAYBE once every 3 or 4 months they leave a message for <first name MI last name> using standard collection agency round-a-bout lingo and phrases.

[Gilhelmi]

Every six months or so I start to receive phone calls and letters about a car loan 'I never paid off' (I have paid cash for every vehicle I have purchased)...

I recommend recording all future conversations and demanding (respectfully) proof of the debt. Then tell them "either take me to court, or I am suing for harassment".

I am NOT a legal expert though, Check your local laws (get a lawyer if you can afford one)

[NoRedCards]

Reminds me of one phone call I kept getting from Discover Card about my account....I didn't have one at the time...the guy finally admitted they were having trouble finding the person, so they were calling all the people in the state with the same name.....

[Pixilated]

I had an entire script in my head for dealing with Psycho Aw Hell Rep, but that was when I thought I had cleared up the debt, and yes, it would certainly have involved telling him to "Send something IN WRITING." I plan to contact the collections agent (as frustrating as she is) within the week and confirm that the money has come in and the account is closed.

I'm not getting anything resembling "harassing" calls (multiple calls per day), nor was I particularly alarmed at Psycho Rep's tone. I figured it was all part of the "act" and would call him back in a day or so ... that was before remembering I had the info for the collections agency.

Once I have confirmed that the file is closed, yes, Psycho Rep (or anybody else from Aw Hell) absolutely WILL be told to go DIAF if I ever hear from them again. (I'm also going to ask the collections agency if I can have something in writing -- even a e-mail -- to confirm that the file is closed.)

Or I will take Gilhelmi's tactics and see how much of their time I can waste before they hang up in a rage.

MoonCat: thanks for the advice. I had already dealt with this particular collections agency over the previous Aw Hell bill, so I figured they were safe for this second query. But I will definitely keep that in mind, especially after reading NecessaryCatharsis' story.

P.S. For the first time ever, I sincerely regretted leaving behind my telephone tape-recording equipment when I left Niagara. There are times when I think it would be nice to have back, although I don't think so strongly enough to go buy any replacement equipment ... yet.

[ComputerNecromancer]

That is as bad as receiving 6-10 phone calls a DAY 7 DAYS A WEEK (robo-calls) for someone who does not even live at my home, never lived in my home nor are we even related to. Immediate family does NOT know who this person is and have never heard of this person. This has been going for about a year now

Contact your telephone company and report this as harassing phone calls.

This will at least get you info that they will cheerfully pass on to the police when you file a formal complaint.

It *can* sometimes result in the phone company terminating the business as a customer.

[wolfie]

(I'm also going to ask the collections agency if I can have something in writing -- even a e-mail -- to confirm that the file is closed.)

Oops! So long as there is money owing, you have power (since it costs them resources in order to try to collect). Once you've paid it off, you have no power. The key is, when dealing with the collection agency, to make the confirmation be a CONDITION of payment. While they won't send an unconditional closure letter without receiving payment (obviously), it shouldn't be too hard to get a conditional closure letter - "Send me a letter stating that the total balance owing is $xx.xx, and that once it is paid off, the file will be closed. If I receive the letter on or before $date, I will send payment by return mail. If, by $date, I haven't received such a letter, I will not send payment". The letter, in combination with your cancelled cheque, show closure.

As an aside, I've heard that any payment restarts the clock regarding an item showing on your credit report, and that some collection agencies will re-sell the account after agreeing to settle for less than the face value. Not having dealt with collection agencies, it's my understanding that there are certain documents where the ORIGINALS are needed in order to "verify" the debt (i.e. prove that the money is owed, the person they are contacting is the one who owes it, and that the agency contacting them is the entity entitled to collect). Why don't people "structure" things so that instead of paying off/settling the account for $x, they are willing to BUY the debt (including the documents needed for verification) from the agency for $x. The agency shouldn't have any objections, since they'd be getting the money. On the other hand, this will get the documents for the debt out of circulation, so that nobody will EVER be able to "verify" the debt.

[MadMike]

I recommend recording all future conversations and demanding (respectfully) proof of the debt.

Be careful doing that. Some states require that both parties are aware the call is being recorded.

the guy finally admitted they were having trouble finding the person, so they were calling all the people in the state with the same name.....

Apparently one of my coworkers had the same thing happen to him. I had taken my headphones off briefly, and heard him talking on the phone, but wasn't really listening. Then I heard him yell, "I am NOT giving you my SS number!" After he hung up, I heard him telling someone else that some collection agency was looking for some other guy with the same first and last name (his was fairly common), and actually had the balls to ask for his SS number as proof that he wasn't who they were looking for. If the caller wasn't a scammer, he was pretty damn stupid.

[Pixilated]

Be careful doing that. Some states require that both parties are aware the call is being recorded.
*snip*

My understanding where I live (after my stint in journalism) is that as long as ONE person is aware the conversation is being recorded, it's legal.

Wolfie, I didn't pay by cheque ... I paid at the bank. But that is something to remember in future, if needed.

[Gilhelmi]

Be careful doing that. Some states require that both parties are aware the call is being recorded.

As I always say, "Always check your local laws before doing anything you read online"

I really never understood why some place require both parties to be aware that the call is being recorded.

[mhkohne]

As I always say, "Always check your local laws before doing anything you read online"

I really never understood why some place require both parties to be aware that the call is being recorded.

I suspect it was intended to protect privacy, but I think it mostly ends up protecting wrongdoers far more often.

Also, the wikipedia article on telephone recording laws has a quick overview by nation and province/state/whatever. It's no more a lawyer than I am, but it's a quick guide.