Please don't kill your dog...

[DataHound]

Some quick background, I work at several veterinary clinics. Normally, I work in back assisting the veterinarians but due to an injury, I was confined to reception until it healed. One of the clinics lost a lot of receptionists recently so now I'm helping out up front until they can find and train some new people. At that clinic, we have a client I'll call Lunatic Lady (LL). Her dog (LLD) has cancer. It's terminal, surgery is not possible, and LLD is not a good candidate for chemo. About a month ago, we saw LL and LLD and it was not looking good. Euthanasia was basically the only option. The veterinarian wanted to try upping LLD's steroid to see if that would help as a last ditch effort to save LLD. Honestly, no one expected anything drastic to come of it but LL and the doctors wanted to try everything before doing euthanasia.

Fast forward to today, LL calls. She reminds me that LLD was put on a higher dose of steroids a while back and told me they are working amazingly. LLD is eating, drinking, playing, and acting like she used to. LLD is no longer lethargic, her gums pinked up, she enjoys attention and walks again, and she doesn't seem to be in any pain. The only "complaint" LL ha was that there is a small sore on LLD's side but LLD isn't licking at it and it doesn't seem to be infected, bothering her, painful, anything. LL emphasized how shocked she was at the change in LLD from a few months ago. Here, I thought LL was just calling to let us know about LLD's miraculous recovery and to thank us for not giving up on her. Not so.

LL said she was doing some research on the long term side effects of steroids and was a bit concerned.
Here are some potential side effects of long-term steroid use in dogs:
-skin problems
-urinary tract infections
-obesity
-susceptibility to infections

Of course LL has a reason to be concerned, but since the side effects of untreated terminal cancer are severe pain, lethargy, malnutrition, and death, I expected LL to ask about tweaking LLD's medications to reduce the chance of these side effects. I did not expect this:

LL: I was thinking about taking LLD off of all her medications and asking god to cure her. Call me crazy, but I know god will cure my dog if I ask.

I was floored. Call you crazy? I'd call you crazy, but I'd get fired for it. I could not for the life of me understand why LL wanted to take LLD off of a medication that is literally keeping her alive. I have nothing against religious people. Many of my family and friends are religious, but if they break a leg, they go see a doctor and get it fixed; Not one of them would lay there, bleeding and it pain with a mangled leg, waiting for a miracle.

I was able to go to convince LL to let me have a doctor call her back to talk about different medications and alternative treatments but in the meantime, I urged her to keep LLD on the medication emphasizing that I would have a doctor call her later TODAY to discuss the matter. After I hing up, I just stared off into space for a moment, not sure whether I should laugh or smash my head into the desk. I started wondering if I fell into a worm hole or if I had a complete mental break and was actually in a padded cell, just me and my thoughts.

I'm not sure how far the doctor got with LL, but I'm hoping she was able to convince LL to not let LLD die a horrible and painful death.

[MoonCat]

I hate people like this. Not because they're religious, but because they have been given a gift, and they're too stupid to accept it, and what's worse, they're hell-bent on doing something that will destroy the beautiful gift they already have. And will no doubt blame you or at least your clinic when the inevitable happens.

Besides that, hasn't she already been praying? Guess what? God already answered. Your dog is doing better. What a fool.

[EvilEmpryss]

Reminds me of the story of the woman living in a flood zone.

One day the emergency stations start warning of a flash flood headed her way. She comments that God will save her. Then the emergency crews come by in their trucks and urge her to leave. She insists God will save her. The waters start to rise and the crews come by in a boat, begging her to leave. Nope. God will save her. Waters rise higher, and she has to flee to her roof. A helicopter come by and the crew tries to pick her up off the roof. She won't have it: God will save her. Eventually the storm waters rage so fiercely they wipe her house out and she dies in the flood. When she gets to heaven she's angry. "God," she demands, "Why didn't you save me?"

And God says, "What are you talking about? I sent the warning, the men in the truck, the men in the boat, and the men in the helicopter yet you refused to help yourself to the aid I put before you."

Maybe Lunatic Lady should be told that story. If you're the religious type, then you should remember that God helps those who help themselves, and medicine is one of God's gifts to help mankind help themselves.

I'll leave out my personal feelings on people who rely on religion to solve all their problems because that would start in fratching and dig deeper from there.

[HawaiianShirts]

I have nothing against religious people. Many of my family and friends are religious, but if they break a leg, they go see a doctor and get it fixed; Not one of them would lay there, bleeding and in pain with a mangled leg, waiting for a miracle.

I am religious. I do believe in miracles. I consider modern medicine to be a miracle in itself, as well as most of the doctors and nurses who practice it and pharmacists who dispense it.

(I also have thoughts about what God will or won't do, regardless of how much a person asks, but they're not relevant here.)

And even discounting that, I would think that the potential side-effects of the medication are acceptable risks, considering the alternative.

Hope that dog can live out the rest of its life happily and then pass on quickly.

Reminds me of the story of the woman living in a flood zone.

I've always liked that story. I've heard in religious and secular settings, and I've heard it applied to lots of different situations. I've also met many people who could benefit from it.

[sirwired]

She's worried about the long-term side-effects of steroids? She must have a memory like the guy in Memento, since she's already forgotten about the obvious short-term effects of the cancer. You know, the whole reason she has the luxury about pondering long-term side effects?

[sstabeler]

The way i'd deal with a religious nut of that type is simple. "God has already answered your prayers- he has made it so that a treatment that is risky, with a low chance of success, actually worked. He ensured you have more time with your dog with the dog still enjoying a good quality fo life. Do you know how rare that is? in almost every case we've seen with dogs in the condition your dog was in, the dog had to be euthanized to end it's suffering. And you believe that, because the dog might suffer treatable side effects, that it isn't worth continuing treatment. Yes, steroids can have side effects. That is usually when the wrong dose is given, and none of the side effects are untreatable. The effect of not giving LLD anything with be that he would go back to how he was before- with him in extreme pain, lethargic, and soon he will start refusing to eat- and will starve to death. If you give him the steroids, it will mean he will not be in pain, will not be lethargic, and will actually eat. If LLD suffers from the possible side effects, then we will be able to decide if something needs to be done later."

Honestly, sometimes religious nuts give me a headache. why do they thing that God would clear up everything perfectly if they just asked? He's probably got better things to do than intervene in individual cases.

[ComputerNecromancer]

Alas, there are far too many people like LL.

It hasn't been all that many years since members of a local church were sentenced for not taking their *daughter* to a doctor. She died. A few years before that, same church different family, 14 year old son died.

Both kids had easily treatable conditions. But the parents *prayed* instead.

The whole church is that way.

[mjr]

Honestly, sometimes religious nuts give me a headache. why do they thing that God would clear up everything perfectly if they just asked? He's probably got better things to do than intervene in individual cases.

A lot of people don't realize that sometimes God says "no". Prayers are answered, we just may not like the answer.

[Limescale]

LL sounds eerily similar to the lady in this story: http://notalwaysfriendly.com/they-were-saved/34079

If there is any cause to pray, it's that she wises up before pulling a similar stunt to 'prove' her dedication to religion.

[raudf]

Oh, that poor pooch! Stopping her meds would be horrible for the poor girl and honestly, if you were going to be concerned about the steroids, why didn't you ask before you started treatments?

Mickey the ODST (Halo) Rat was put on steroids once and my vet gave the a list of things that could crop up. I was told to CALL if I noticed any of them, so they could see about the dosage or try another track. Why was he on steroids? Because he had a possible pituitary tumor and I loved my little baby ratty!

[MoonCat]

Problem with this woman is that she wasn't satisfied with the result. She wanted PERFECT, and she didn't have it, so she was going to gamble her poor dog's life on the off-chance that another "method" (praying) would give her the 100% outcome she wanted.

That's gratitude for ya.


ETA: I'm not saying prayer never works. Just that in this case, she already had the best outcome she could reasonably hope for. Why tempt fate?

[Employee28567]

Yell her she might do better praying to Anubis. Or even Cerberus, the three-faced guard dog of the underworld.

[catcul]

She should be reminded of the following Bible verses: Deuteronomy 6:16, Matthew 4:7, and Luke 4:12. All of them say, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

[raudf]

As a family member went through their own medical ordeal, someone suggested they try the power of prayer, by itself. "Dude, I've been praying this medicine works. Guess what? It is working. I consider that a prayer answered! Why on Earth would I throw that in God's face?!"

My family has a very warped sense of humor.

[Tee]

I mentioned elsewhere my Beagle died. She had epilepsy, and we couldn't change her medicine, or she'd have seizures within a day or two.

So, despite the occasional substitute vet giving us crap (trying to force us to change medicines), we kept her on it, and even managed to get her to half doses.

The reason the subs gave us crap is the sheer amount of long term complications it causes for dogs, and how bad they are.

The complications actually eventually killed her, and those last few days weren't her best.

But, not before giving her another 10 years of life, for 12 years total. Far longer than she would have had without.

I hope this lady realises that the long term doesn't matter, if you don't live through the short term first.