Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ripped Off and Pissed Off (Long & Ranty)

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ripped Off and Pissed Off (Long & Ranty)

    My boyfriend is a self employed carpenter. As the people who call him to do work are considered his customers, I will put this here.

    He agreed to do a job for a new retail store. Basically, they have one location, they are opening a new location in a strip mall, and they need someone to build all of the dressing rooms, hang slat walls, sheet rock, paint - all the things that make a store look like a store. The agreement was $2000 up front, and $2500 upon completion.

    Simple enough, right?

    He finished up the job the last week of February. On the second to last day, the store manager K told him, "I have your check, but you're not finished, so I can't give it to you yet." He was fine with this. The next day when he finished, the store manager was not there, but the part-owner J was. He asked her about the check, she told him that she couldn't get a hold of K, but K didn't have a check anyway, so she'd have to have him a check sent from New York, where the other part owner N is. (This is BS because J wrote him the initial $2000 check)

    For two days, he heard nothing from anyone. N and J won't return phone calls. Just as he's starting to get pissed (this was about 2/27) N from New York calls. He gives a sob story about how this store has had nothing but problems, how it's opening a month later than planned, how he has had to pay employees he didn't need so they would have a paycheck even though the store isn't open yet - Bottom line, he says he doesn't have the money to pay for the work. He says that BF can go up to the store Monday 3/3 and pick up two checks. One will be dated 3/5, the other 3/12. Each will be for $1250. He says that this is the only solution he can offer for BF to get paid. BF is very unhappy with this, but we need the money, so he agrees.

    3/3 When BF went up to the store, K acted like she knew nothing about any checks and called J. She hung up, pulled out the two checks, dated as agreed upon, and changed the dates to 3/13 and 3/20. He asked why, she said she was only doing as she was told. BF took the checks, left the store, and called N to ask what was going on. N said he knew nothing about it and said he'd call back. He didn't. BF waited a couple days and then left messages for J and N, saying that if the first check was not good on 3/13, he would turn it over to the DA.

    Today 3/12, N called. He said that since BF was being nasty. he had stopped payment on the checks. He said that the work was crappy anyway, and he wasn't going to pay for it. So now we're out $2500 for work he did for these lowlifes. That was bill money, dammit! I assume these people get paid when they work, so why shouldn't BF? We talked to the DA and police dept, and basically, all we can do is sue them in small claims court.

    Anybody have any suggestions on what we can do about these people? I was thinking along the lines of boiling them in oil, but I think it's illegal.
    Let it go... Daisy, let it go... Open up your fist
    This fallen world... Doesn't hold your interest...
    Doesn't hold your soul... Daisy, let it go
    -Switchfoot

  • #2
    Go the claims route, it can be a small business owners best friend. Yes I know it is a major pain - but its the only way you will get any money. Be nice and be prepared, let them hang themselves. However, you should always remember you can't get blood from a stone, sometimes its just best to take payment in life lessons. Just don't forget not everyone is a selfish, thoughtless jackwad!

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd be curious to know if there was a written contract involved, as well. It will hopefully be solved in court, as they owe you payment for services rendered, but it will be unfortunate if they find a loophole. If nothing else, it'll be a good way to ensure that you get everything worked out in advance and know how to handle idiots who try to pull crap like this in the future.

      Good luck, though!
      "In the end I was the mean girl/or somebody's in between girl"~Neko Case

      “You don't need many words if you already know what you're talking about.” ~William Stafford

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks, myswtghst, I forgot to mention that - there was a written contract. They agreed to the terms and signed.
        Let it go... Daisy, let it go... Open up your fist
        This fallen world... Doesn't hold your interest...
        Doesn't hold your soul... Daisy, let it go
        -Switchfoot

        Comment


        • #5
          Did he really stop pay on the checks? or just say that? I'd still take them to the bank they are drawn on / deposit them at your bank (but don't spend the money until it clears). If you deposit them, and they come back marked "stop pay" or "non-sufficient funds" or "account closed" - then you have your first piece of evidence for a possible court case. P.S. - "account closed: checks are the easiest to prosecute through the state's attorney's office. "NSF" checks are fairly easy to prosecute also, but "Stop Pay" checks would generally be a civil matter you'd have to sue for.

          Also, as to the post dating - bank law is mostly state law, mostly adopted to the Uniform Commercial Code - anyway, in many states, the date is a matter of convenience to the writer - it has no bearing on negotiability. Long story short - a check is often payable upon presentment, and post dated checks are even in some cases specifically illegal.

          Personally, if it's made out in the business name, I'd get it signature guaranteed at your bank, then that it to the bank it's written from and ask them to exchange it for an official check. If the other bank is too far away, then I'd deposit them in your bank account.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would definately go the small claims route, it will be painful but it should net you your money, especially if there is a written contract. I would also try to see if you can get pictures of the work rendered prior to doing anything because if they are going to be this petty over the payment they may wish to sabotage some of the work done to make their claim that it was poorly done more feasible. Good luck with it.
            Am I sad because I am looking forward to the day when the people I will be dealing with will no longer be able to talk back?

            Comment


            • #7
              Quoth Daisy View Post
              3/3 When BF went up to the store, K acted like she knew nothing about any checks and called J. She hung up, pulled out the two checks, dated as agreed upon, and changed the dates to 3/13 and 3/20. He asked why, she said she was only doing as she was told. BF took the checks, left the store, and called N to ask what was going on. N said he knew nothing about it and said he'd call back. He didn't. BF waited a couple days and then left messages for J and N, saying that if the first check was not good on 3/13, he would turn it over to the DA.
              I don't know about there, but in Canada-land it's kind of illegal to change ANYTHING on a check if it's not your own personal check. So, technically, she wasn't even allowed to change the dates on the check....

              Comment


              • #8
                Free Legal advice from a NON lawyer.


                Post dating checks is illegal per banking and estate laws as the signature person may not live to see the posted date and the check can not be cashed until the date has occurred. It is a technicality but quite logical.

                Writing a check knowing the funds are inadaquate to cover the check or knowing the bank's overdraft program will not cover the check is a criminal act.

                But writing a valid check (dated today) and asking the receiver to wait to cash the check is legal if the receiver agrees to the terms.

                ( I could envision a person saying that "I have the money in the account but I need to go shopping for XYZ before the store closes and don't know how much XYZ will cost, would you mind waiting till Friday when I can cash out my Money Market account and cover the checks and avoid overdraft fees.... I will pay you an extra $100 for waiting, it you can't wait don't worry as my overdraft will cover everything)


                Bottom line never let a SC post date a check. The SC could close the account and your check would be worthless with no easy legal recourse or the SC could die and your check will be worthless with no easy legal recourse.

                IF the SC asks you to hold a check always check the bank balance on the date the check is issued and make sure you are properly compensated for the wait. Of course the SC could just wipe out the account after giving you the check but that is an entirely different issue.
                Last edited by StevieJD; 03-13-2008, 05:20 AM.
                SC Motto "I am more important than you and others and don't you ever forget it"

                Comment


                • #9
                  I manage a lot of the contracts our company has with OEMs and some of them really suck at paying what they. Usually after their oh-so-bright invention that will make them millionaires fails to sell. They always try to wiggle out of paying us because they know we will have to sue them and they are counting on us not bothering.

                  So I strongly suggest the small claims route. Don't forget to add to the claim for your time and court costs as well as the money owed. In some cases you can also sue for x% interest for every day the payment was late, especially if you wrote that into the contract. [If you didn't, next time you draw up a contract you will want to add a paragraph indicating that interest charges can be added for late payment.]

                  As far as post-dated checks go, in many places is perfectly legal for you to deposit them as soon as they are in your possession, regardless of the date; check your local laws. I'd go ahead and deposit both of them now anyway, even though they told you that a stop payment was issued. The returned checks are evidence you can bring to court AND any fees your bank charges you for the returned checks can be added to the amount you claim in your suit.

                  If they're smart, they'll settle as soon as they realize you've filed. If they're dumb, they'll let it go to court. In that case your best bet is to stay professional and not lose your temper when the defendants lie their asses off about you.

                  This is why I think you have a good chance of winning:

                  1. Your husband has a contract and they signed it.

                  2. They gave your husband the checks which were due upon completion of the job. The fact that they gave them to your husband indicates that the defendants agreed that the job was completed.

                  3. Because they've already given your husband the checks, the defendant has given up the right to bring the quality of the work into the equation. They had that opportunity before making payment. They chose not to and and issued the checks. That fact belies that they found anything wrong with the work.

                  4. The defendants sound very irrational and seem to change lies often. If your husband stays calm and sticks to the relevant facts in court (and it's hard when someone is telling awful lies about you), the defendants are likely to hang themselves by contradicting either the evidence or their own previous testimony.

                  Good luck!
                  The best karma is letting a jerk bash himself senseless on the wall of your polite indifference.

                  The stupid is strong with this one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If there is a problem with the work, it will depend on what the contract says as far as them paying you. And you will want to find out if you are covered for that.

                    I'd recommend contacting a lawyer who will give free/cheap advice. If there is a law school nearby see if you can contact them for free advice. Do this before you do anything else. (Unless you have a lawyer)

                    My company will send a certifeid letter reminding them of the payment terms and that they are in breach of contract, threaten to sue, lien the job, stop working etc. But, we have been doing this for years, have lawyers at our beck & call, have millions to screw around with, etc. So make sure you are covered legally first.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First: Send a certified letter demanding payment (and possible penalties laid out in the contract). You can do this at the post office. Any further legal action will be aided by this, as you will be able to prove they were notified of the amount due. Keep a copy of what you send, and the proof of reciept you get back.

                      Second:
                      File a lien against the store and it's merchandise. If your local laws are like most, they won't be able to sell anything without paying your BF. You might want to talk to a lawyer first, as this is a nuclear option, but not an unusul step for contractors who get stiffed. A lawyer familier with contractors will be familier with the process, and $2500 (+ possible contract penalties) would be worth an hour or so of lawyer consult. In most places, a lien can be filed at either the courthouse or government building without a lawyer.

                      Don't let it sit long. Too much time before filing a complaint of some sort can be seen as acceptance in the eyes of the law.
                      The Rich keep getting richer because they keep doing what it was that made them rich. Ditto the Poor.
                      "Hy kan tell dey is schmot qvestions, dey is makink my head hurt."
                      Hoc spatio locantur.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Document Document Document . . .names, times, dates, certified recpts for US mail. All are important to a Judge.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Geek King knows of what he speaks. The company that my wife works with is in the construction(ish) business and they both do this and have this done to them from time to time. (the liens).

                          Also the info about going to your bank and getting a signature guarantee stamp on the checks and then taking them to their bank and trying to cash them is very good. This way if the check has been stopped or is NSF you won't get the hit of additional fee's on your acct. Then you would also have the added benefit of having the check with a NSF/STOP PAYMENT stamp or a statement from the bank stating this for your legal proof.
                          My Karma ran over your dogma.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Quoth Geek King View Post
                            Don't let it sit long. Too much time before filing a complaint of some sort can be seen as acceptance in the eyes of the law.
                            Exactly what my company does too!

                            And the waiting thing. I know for us we are only allowed to file a lien for a year after you have stopped doing work on the job.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Inform them immediately, through a lawyer, of your intent to sue.

                              Perhaps showing that you cannot be bullied easily will result in funds appearing promptly.
                              My basic dog food advice - send a pm if you need more.

                              Saydrah's leaving the nest advice + packing list live here.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X