Copyright Policy

[casey13]

So stores like to say it is copyright law (for the US) as to why they won't take back DVDs. I am more wondering whether or not that is true. What I think it is is that they won't get credit for the opened DVD that they now can't sell and hence why they can't take it back without losing money. However, they do allow exchanges for the same product.

Does anyone know the official reasoning behind stores not taking DVDs back?

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

What I think it is is that they won't get credit for the opened DVD that they now can't sell and hence why they can't take it back without losing money. However, they do allow exchanges for the same product.

I'm not sure what happens to the opened copies when we get them back on even exchanges.

Stores refuse returns on opened media because of the possibility of piracy. With CD and DVD burners being widely available, a person can buy a CD or DVD, copy it, and return the CD or DVD. This way they'd get it for free.

It may also be part of the contract the retailer has with distributors not to take back opened media for a refund--it has to be even exchange only. There is no law that forbids stores from accepting returns of those items for copyright reasons, and you shouldn't tell customers that when they try to return those items. You might get somebody who knows the law and can prove it, and they will be a righteous pain in the butt. Just say store policy is even exchange only.

[infinitemonkies]

I think I can tell you what happens to them:

I've noticed lately large franchise places like Zellers and Safeway having bins of dvds for sale very cheap, occasionally even containing new and/or good films.

The packaging is in perfect condition, and the discs seem mint, but if you read the small print on the price sticker it lists the DVD as a previously-view product.

[Pedersen]

I've posted before, so I'll post links to threads where I've posted, and make my standing offer afterwards:

• http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...ad.php?t=52364
• http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...087#post382087

Summary: USC Title 17 (the section of law governing copyright in the United States) does not outlaw, at all, retailers accepting returns on media, period.

Others have tried to claim it did, but in the end have been unable to cite one segment of the law that states it. No law, no case law, no backing for the position.

My standing offer is this: Prove me wrong, and I'll post a big-ass public apology in its own thread. That apology has not happened yet.

P.S.: I think I might be the guy Irv is talking about when he says that you may get someone who knows the law and will be a righteous pain in the butt. Cite store policy, and I'll shut up and go home. Cite the law, and we'll have a good long discussion where you will rapidly decide that I am your least favorite person in the world, at least in part because I've got some sort of wireless internet all the time and will show you the exact text of any law you care to cite.

[Anthony K. S.]

I remember a few arguments over this issue happening on Planet Feedback some years ago.

Oddly, there was this one commentor who adamantly stated that retailers were prohibited by law from accepting returns on opened CDs, DVDs, and such . . . and then later, on other letters, he posted comments saying that no such law existed, and the people saying so were just full of it.

He acted as if he himself had never said that any such law was on the books.

I'm sure I wasn't the only person who noticed. Nobody seemed to think it mattered enough to call him out on it. I just thought it was strange.

<SNIP>

. . . as we all know :

You say, "It's store policy."

The Sucky Customer hears, "The store set the rule, so the store can break it whenever the store wants, and so we can break it if you want."


Nevertheless . . . It's still wrong to lie to the customers.

[Pedersen]

You say, "It's store policy."

The Sucky Customer hears, "The store set the rule, so the store can break it whenever the store wants, and so we can break it if you want."

And that behavior is particularly vile. Customers asking to have rules broken for them on a "just because" basis is the topic of very many posts in this forum.

I know that, for me, the only time I'll get upset is if I can't exchange for the same item. In that case, I'm returning the existing item solely because the one I bought was defective. I also know that, in actually being willing to follow the policy, I'd be a rare customer

Nevertheless . . . It's still wrong to lie to the customers.

Aye, on that point we totally agree.

[PepperElf]

it also depends on the store you go to as well.

back when i lived in va beach Planet Music was pretty good about returns of opened material, although i always did my returns in pure honesty.

such as the dvd i sent dad - when he got it, there was no dvd inside, just a copy of AOL. although it was well over a month after the purchase they did a return for me.

and when i bought a used copy of evita, i returned it within a few days cos i hadn't realized the used copy only contained half of the music. though, i did make a point of deleting the mp3s i'd ripped from the cd after i returned it. besides who really wants only half of evita? it's just not as good that way.


other stores gave me harder times about returns. however no one ever claimed "law" about it, just that it was store policy.

[Boozy]

This one could go Fratching on us rather quickly.

I think a general discussion and comparison of store return policies is fine, as is sharing your own store's policies (and reasoning behind them).

Debates about whether or not you agree with copyright laws should obviously be taken to Fratching.

Thanks guys.

[Pedersen]

Debates about whether or not you agree with copyright laws should obviously be taken to Fratching.

Agreed. I do have one question about what you said, though: What about showing/explaining what the laws are? Not whether or not we agree with them, but what they are?

Using me as an example: I've done my best to show what copyright law here in the US says. Someone else could know more than me, and be able to show me that I'm wrong in my understanding, and I would very much like to know this if they do. It's also possible that another country has differing laws that do prohibit returns, and again I'd like to know.

Is that sort of discussion something that should only occur on Fratching? I hope not, but figured I should ask for clarification.

[PepperElf]

that's an interesting point.

unrelated to copywritten material, i had one worker use the "it's the law!!!!111!!!" excuse when I complained about them scraping my registration sticker. (I was getting my NY-registered car inspected in Virginia). In reality what they did was actually against the law, but I suspect they wanted to get rid of me because I was complaining.