Proofreading DOES help

[C. Cecil Ivanish]

This was brought back to my mind by a post by BookBint.

Now - I have a former colleague (pretty decent as a colleague, too) who writes science fiction. Mind, I write science fiction too, I am not pointing my finger on him because of this.

Well, about one year after we both quit the job we had met at, we met by chance in the city centre and got to talk. In the meanwhile we had both gotten married, his wife was pregnant, a lot of nice news.
And a great one - he had published his first novel!
Wow, happiness!
Yes, ok, he has actually *printed* it rather than publishing it. You know, one of those small companies that would print pretty much anything you pay them to publish (but assigning an ISBN to the book and putting it on sale on Amazon and Play.com).
Anyway.
I tell him that I want to read it, he directs me to Amazon. I buy it.

The language.
Oh my [insert divinity of choice], the language.
Not that it was rude, vulgar or anything.
But it was SO bad that it spoiled (most of) the story. Which objectively is quite good per se.
To add insult to injury... he replies to any review he sees online complaining about the bad treatment his novel got, "only because of the language". In a seriously broken English.

I quote.

"They finished the breakfast at 9.30 and boys managed to beg their mother to clean up the table so [butler] would be freed to give them a sightseeing of the house."

"Estate has also several outbuildings: Stable, which is empty, Barn at the fields a bit further away and lake house. Then there is that big barn over there which is modified to hold your step dads laboratory."

"Now the suns [note that it is science fiction, there are TWO suns, so this one is NOT an error] were already getting ready for the night. [girl] turned to see the sunset when boys heard the scream that seized the blood rushing in their arteries"

[infinitemonkies]

I wonder why the big publishing houses rejected his manuscript?

[HorrorFrogPrincess]

Not that there's anything wrong with self-publishing (*ahem*), but for Heaven's sake, find someone to look over it.

[C. Cecil Ivanish]

I wonder why the big publishing houses rejected his manuscript?

I don't even know if he ever gave them a try!

Not that there's anything wrong with self-publishing (*ahem*), but for Heaven's sake, find someone to look over it.

I know, and I am planning to self-publish myself... but yes, give it to somebody to double-check. PLEASE.

[Ironclad Alibi]

The language. Oh my [insert divinity of choice], the language. Not that it was rude, vulgar or anything. But it was SO bad that it spoiled (most of) the story.

I have experienced this. A black woman I once knew wrote a story (intending it to become a novel) entirely in a black English dialect. I was given a draft copy to read. It was so bad, I could not read it. If she had written the narrative in proper English, and just the conversations in the black dialect, I think I could have read it. But having the whole thing written that way? Forget it.

[EvilEmpryss]

I have experienced this. A black woman I once knew wrote a story (intending it to become a novel) entirely in a black English dialect. I was given a draft copy to read. It was so bad, I could not read it. If she had written the narrative in proper English, and just the conversations in the black dialect, I think I could have read it. But having the whole thing written that way? Forget it.

I've heard of similar books written in Ebonics. The theory is that since the target audience speaks a particular way and has trouble reading standard English (with all those grammar rules and the non-slang vocabulary), writing the entire text in Ebonics makes it easier for them to read. Since you and the rest of the standard-English-using world are not the target audience, then of course you'd have trouble reading it.

While my personal opinion is that people should learn to operate on a functionally literate level (relative to the dominant language of the area in which they live), I can see the benefit of making reading attractive to as many people as possible. If they start reading books written in Ebonics, they may eventually be moved to read other books.

Because:

The more that you read, the more things you will know.
The more that you learn, the more places you'll go.
-Dr Seuss

[searssoulslave]

Because:

The more that you read, the more things you will know.
The more that you learn, the more places you'll go.
-Dr Seuss

Rachel hearts the Dr. Seuss, The Lorax was pure genius. But it saddens me that aspiring writers have such high hopes and dreams when their actual talents fall so very, very short of their abilities.

[C. Cecil Ivanish]

I have experienced this. A black woman I once knew wrote a story (intending it to become a novel) entirely in a black English dialect. I was given a draft copy to read. It was so bad, I could not read it. If she had written the narrative in proper English, and just the conversations in the black dialect, I think I could have read it. But having the whole thing written that way? Forget it.

I've heard of similar books written in Ebonics. The theory is that since the target audience speaks a particular way and has trouble reading standard English (with all those grammar rules and the non-slang vocabulary), writing the entire text in Ebonics makes it easier for them to read.

I have a small doubt here.
(By the way, this colleague's language issues are simply caused because he is a non-native speaker, not by an effort to write in a specific dialect/style. Not that I am a native speaker myself, but then again)
Wouldn't a book written in Ebonics (I like the sound of the word) be actually suitable, as long as the writer doesn't delude him/herself that it is NOT written in proper English and that it will NEVER be picked up by somebody outwith his/her intended initial target?
Hm, maybe not a whole book. A short story, though...
No?

[PepperElf]

Sadly, I've read published books that aren't much better than those passages you printed. One of the star trek authors actually... I lasted until someone actually *pronounced* "s/he" then i gave up.

[C. Cecil Ivanish]

Sadly, I've read published books that aren't much better than those passages you printed. One of the star trek authors actually... I lasted until someone actually *pronounced* "s/he" then i gave up.

Ach, so...
No. Me no like. Me no buy. Me goes wash his brain with coffee.

[EvilEmpryss]

I have a small doubt here.
(By the way, this colleague's language issues are simply caused because he is a non-native speaker, not by an effort to write in a specific dialect/style. Not that I am a native speaker myself, but then again)
Wouldn't a book written in Ebonics (I like the sound of the word) be actually suitable, as long as the writer doesn't delude him/herself that it is NOT written in proper English and that it will NEVER be picked up by somebody outwith his/her intended initial target?
Hm, maybe not a whole book. A short story, though...
No?

I have much more than a small doubt, but I was trying to write an unbiased statement of fact. The problem is that there is a great deal of debate as to whether Ebonics is actually a "language" in and of itself, or whether it's simply a subcultural mangling of English that needs to be erased with proper education (like y'all, doncha know, and amon'). To me it would be the equivalent of writing a book in the same spelling and grammar used in a text message. I don't want to get into fratching territory, so I'll leave it at that.

If someone is a non-native English writer, I give them a little more leeway: at least they're trying. I've known roleplayers from all over the world who got into forum games to improve their English skills, and some of them were better writers than the native speakers I grew up with.

[C. Cecil Ivanish]

I have much more than a small doubt, but I was trying to write an unbiased statement of fact. The problem is that there is a great deal of debate as to whether Ebonics is actually a "language" in and of itself, or whether it's simply a subcultural mangling of English that needs to be erased with proper education (like y'all, doncha know, and amon'). To me it would be the equivalent of writing a book in the same spelling and grammar used in a text message. I don't want to get into fratching territory, so I'll leave it at that.

I see your point.
Still, I read a short (REALLY short) sci-fi story in Scots that is absolutely fantastic. Need to find it...

If someone is a non-native English writer, I give them a little more leeway: at least they're trying.

...I'd still expect some proofreading... I don't mean a professional proofread, but at least ask some friend to check your language?

I've known roleplayers from all over the world who got into forum games to improve their English skills, and some of them were better writers than the native speakers I grew up with.

That's what I am aiming for

[Magpie]

I thought that Ebonics, like a heavy brogue, tended to be more of a spoken language than a written one. Am I just that out of the loop? It would be like trying to write a story in Plautdietsch. (I can spell it however I want, because it's not a written language ).

[Flying Grype]

A black woman I once knew wrote a story (intending it to become a novel) entirely in a black English dialect.

Geez, you guys, there are some classics you need to read. Would it have been less annoying if it was something other than 'ebonics'? Dialect writing is a legitimate form, and it takes practice to read it if it isn't your dialect. Some damned good books have been written like that -- have you ever read Alice Walker's The Color Purple, or Trainspotting or anything else by Irvine Welsh?

[EvilEmpryss]

Geez, you guys, there are some classics you need to read. Would it have been less annoying if it was something other than 'ebonics'? Dialect writing is a legitimate form, and it takes practice to read it if it isn't your dialect. Some damned good books have been written like that -- have you ever read Alice Walker's The Color Purple, or Trainspotting or anything else by Irvine Welsh?

I absolutely agree that dialects written into a story can add color and really flesh out the depiction of a culture. I am one of the few people I know who actually enjoyed reading Robert Burns' Address to a Haggis in school!

But even stories about subcultures are written in proper English, with only the dialogue in the dialect. You would not, however, expect a 2nd grade English primer to be written in a dialect. My problem was not with Ebonics or Scots brogues or Southern twangs, per se, it is in the attempt by some to water down the already abysmal schooling that some people get by trying to put their *school books* and *legal documents* in the dialect. As a sort of translation text, maybe, but to expect history books to be rewritten (oh yes, and the taxpayers to foot the bill for the rewriting and new books) instead of just insisting that the children learn proper English is ridiculous.