Need kitty help - being kept from eating

[1756GR2]

My daughter's had three cats for several years, two males and a female, all neutered. They've always gotten along fine. They're all in the neighborhood of 8-10 years old.

Lately one male (Ginger) has decided he's King of the Hill and is keeping the other male (Smoky) from eating. Smoky usually has a large appetite. My daughter's been taking Smoky into the kitchen where there's a barrier in the doorway so that he can eat away from Ginger, but Smoky will eat a piece or two of food and then have to be followed around the floor with the dish for a while before he'll be coaxed to eat just another piece or two. She's tried wet food, even spoon feeding him, but that's not all that successful either. He seems afraid to eat, maybe having become conditioned to associate food with Ginger's disapproval and threats. My daughter's almost certain that Ginger is terrorizing Smoky when she's not around. No wounds, but he's afraid.

Smoky's lost a little weight since this started. His teeth look fine, he still cuddles and acts otherwise fairly normal. She considered feeding him in a large cage but that would be worse for him to be confined.

It's a huge change in dynamics between the two (their relationship with the female hasn't changed) and there's no change in home life to account for it.

I'd appreciate some suggestions for her, advice from some cat people who've seen this kind of thing before and can give her some more insights or possible solutions before Smoky ends up ill.

[KellyHabersham]

We're having similar problems with some of my mom's cats.......situation hasn't been completely resolved, but I've found it helps to take Rosebud into a room where I can close the door, and feed her some canned food. I always stay in the room with her so she doesn't feel like she's being punished/shut away, and while Rosebud still shows some signs of being afraid to eat, she's slowly starting to feel more comfortable.

[Dreamstalker]

This doesn't have much to help with the territory issues I'm afraid, but have you tried adding baby food (can't have any onion in it; we used Gerber) or chicken drippings/sardine oil to get Smoky to eat more than a few bites at a time?

I'd try reversing the situation if possible; confine Ginger with his food so Smoky feels it's okay to enter the "main" food area. If someone's able to watch them all day so you can get a better idea of how they interact I'd suggest doing that.

[1756GR2]

Reversing the situation sounds like a doable thing. They're alone during the day (daughter and her man both work) a good deal, but there are days when she's home all day with them. I'd think the oil/drippings would help stimulate his appetite. I hope something does.

Someone at work said that to get cats friendly with each other you should rub them both with tuna oil and confine them to the bathtub. They'll lick the oil off each other and be friends. Um, really? I can just see trying that. Somehow I reeeally think that's not a good solution.

[MoonCat]

I would have both of them checked out by the vet, since behavioral changes are sometimes related to health problems. It's also possible that Ginger is doing what's called "projecting" - he got pissed at something else (maybe a strange cat or dog he saw out the window, for ex.) and he took it out on Smoky; sometimes this kind of thing can mess up the way two cats relate to each other, even after the initial "threat" is gone.

And I agree with you: the oil/bathtub thing probably won't work. Ginger, for whatever reason, has decided he doesn't like Smoky. Tuna oil is not going to change that.

[flybye023]

I was also going to suggest the vet. Often animals can sense an illness in their...packmates for lack of a better word, and will try to drive them away for the health of the rest. Have you noticed any other changes in Smokey that would suggest he's not feeling the best?

[1756GR2]

I'll suggest a checkup. He's seemed fine, except for losing some weight but we attributed that to not eating much, and he could afford a _little_ off around the edges. Could be coincidence, but yeah, could also be something we don't recognize. Everything about him looks good, but then we can't see inside...

[MoonCat]

One other thing to consider. You may not have had any major changes in the home, but cats have a different view of "major." Sometimes just putting their food in a different place, or rearranging the furniture, makes them jumpy. They're creatures of habit, and if one of those habits is disrupted, it throws off their sense of well-being, and they might express that through aggression.

[1756GR2]

Hmmm...that makes me think. Daughter and her man went on a week's vacation about a month and a half or so ago. I usually cat-sit when they go away, but I'm working again and they got a friend to do it. The cats know the friend, but not with long-term exposure like that. Maybe that upset the apple cart.

I'm going to their house this weekend, we'll see how things go with separating Ginger instead of Smoky.

[1756GR2]

Seems it might not be as simple as I'd hoped. Smoky, on close observation, seems to have a problem with his tongue. When he eats his little bit of wet food, he scoops it up with his teeth. When he goes to his (separate) water bowl, he crouches with his head hanging over the edge, lips at the surface and sometimes gets his nose wet. He doesn't seem to be able to lap it up. I've been sitting with him most of the evening putting water and Pedialyte in him with an eyedropper (he's definitely dehydrated). He seems grateful for that, even though it means he has to put up with the eyedropper in his cheek for half an hour till enough gets in him. He doesn't refuse it, and doesn't try to get away from it.

He has some control of his tongue, but can't extend it to clean his nose or lap up water or food. That, I believe, accounts for why he's not cleaning himself. His vibe is that of a rather miserable soul.

I've noticed that Ginger will come around him sniffing at him a lot. Perhaps this is the "one animal knowing the other isn't feeling well" thing. Ginger does pester him, though, mercilessly, if he thinks no one's watching, and doesn't let Smoky get near the community food bowl.

I'm working my budget tonight to eke out the money to get him to the vet to see what else is going on, maybe get an IV line in him for faster fluids. Daughter's car needed more repairs for inspection than she'd thought, and she's broke for a while.

[MoonCat]

Oh sweetie. I'm sorry. Yeah, the vet definitely needs to look inside his mouth. I had a kitty once who had a tumor under her tongue. It could actually be teeth problems, though, and if so that's at least easier to treat. Bad teeth can account for a lot of problems.

They can put fluids in with a special needle. The stuff goes in under the skin and is slowly absorbed over a few hours' time. You can even do it at home, once they show you how, if you're comfortable with that; they would provide the fluids and needles. It costs less than having to go back to the vet every few days.

Good luck!

[Dreamstalker]

Poor kitty. Definitely get his mouth and teeth checked; dental problems can be serious if they go unchecked.

We had to give subcutaneous fluids with McGriff; once you learn how to do it (usually just under the skin at the scruff of the neck) it's not all that hard but can get tricky at times especially if they don't want to sit still for a few minutes.

[1756GR2]

He got much better overnight with giving him the fluids, has his appetite back. His tongue seems to work better and he was cleaning himself today, but he's still having a devil of a time drinking out of the bowl. I gave him some spring water with a little Pedialyte in it since he seemed much more interested in it than in the regular tap water (which IMHO tastes awful anyway), but he keeps sticking his nose in it or jumping back surprised when his mouth touches the surface.

Vet visit in the works!

[MoonCat]

He got much better overnight with giving him the fluids, has his appetite back. His tongue seems to work better and he was cleaning himself today, but he's still having a devil of a time drinking out of the bowl. I gave him some spring water with a little Pedialyte in it since he seemed much more interested in it than in the regular tap water (which IMHO tastes awful anyway), but he keeps sticking his nose in it or jumping back surprised when his mouth touches the surface.

Vet visit in the works!

Yep, dehydration can cause all sorts of problems. Someone else here suggested baby food, I had forgotten about that. It's a good choice if he'll eat it, just make sure you only get the plain meat kind (no onion)... chicken, beef or turkey...chicken is the easiest to digest.

Here's a way to possibly help with the water: If you can get a large, all plastic long-nose syringe, you could squirt in a little bit of water at at time. A couple of our cats who had to take liquid meds this way actually started to like it. Just go easy on it so you don't have a large squirt of water hitting the back of his throat too hard.

Also, try warming up the water a little bit. Our cats actually prefer it this way. Don't make it hot, of course, just a little warmer than room temp.

[Dreamstalker]

I hope things can be figured out soon; odd that the only problem seems to be with the tongue. Did it seem to start recently, or can you see any changes in his tongue (color, coating, etc)?