Very Complicated Situation.

[Miss_Stress]

As some may know, my fiance's parents split up almost a year ago now, and his dad has a new partner. What is more confusing is his mother's new partner is his dad's new partner's ex. I hope that makes sense!

Anyway, my fiance really does not like his dad's new partner. She is controlling of his dad to the point where his dad must ask permission to visit his other son - my fiance's brother. She has also stripped the house my fiance and his dad live in of all traces of my fiance's mother - photographs, possessions, everything. What makes things worse is, when we mentioned this to my fiance's mother, she told us that this woman had done the same to her previous partner, except that the possessions she threw out were his dead wife's things. She did this without her previous partner's consent, and she did not get his daughters' consent either.

My fiance's father is also starting to lie to him, and we suspect it is her doing. His father and this new partner have been on two day trips in the last month, and both times his father refused to tell my fiance where they were going, as he "would only want to tag along." When my fiance spoke to his grandmother, it transpired that everyone else in the family knew the destination of the trip, and that it was this partner's idea not to tell my fiance. Another instance is where his father promised to spend some time with my fiance, and at the last minute said he had to work. This turned out to also be a lie as my fiance phoned his father's place of work to speak to him and they said he wasn't working but he was there having drinks with his new partner. A further example is when his father told him that they were broke about a month ago, and yet in the next two weeks him and his new partner are going on a 3 day break and then spending a week in Spain.

My fiance is also starting to feel massively pushed out, as she is monopolising all his father's free time. Regularly, she will invite her two daughters, her grandson, and her daughters' partners for Sunday lunch (without checking with his father, of course!) and when this occurs, my fiance is made to feel like a spare wheel as nobody says a single word to him or even acknowledges his presence. In fact, as recently as last week, when me and my fiance came back from my house, we returned to find her family and my fiance's father sat in the living room. Me and my fiance greeted them, and we both got nothing but dirty looks. Not one person in the room said "hello" to us. My fiance has since mentioned this to both his mother and his grandmother, and was subsequently informed that his father's partner drove her previous ex-partner's daughters from their home, and promptly moved her daughters in. Now my fiance is worried that the same will happen to him.

Because his parents are divorcing, the house my fiance and his father are currently living in is to be sold. In spite of this, his father's new partner is still insisting on moving in to the house, along with her daughter, meaning that his father now has to find a house for 4 people, as opposed to 2. She has also pressured his father into an engagement, despite the fact they have known each other for less than a year and his father is yet to divorce his mother.

This new partner has also threatened to kill my fiance's mother if she sets foot near the house, the house that my fiance's mother currently still owns half of. She has said that my fiance's mother cannot see her own son, something which has upset my fiance greatly as not only is he an adult, but he misses his mother very much and finds it very galling that some woman is trying to stop his mother visiting him at home.

My fiance is feeling very upset about the situation, as he feels he is no longer welcome in his own home. He has tried to speak to his father, who has not yet listened to anyone about it. He won't listen to other members of the family, and my fiance fears that it won't be long before he is driven out too, as well as his relationship with his father breaking down completely. My fiance has also been forced to seek the help of a counsellor as a result of all this.

Does anyone have any advice? Apologies for the length of this post but I am at a loss as to what to do to help.

[Miss_Stress]

Thanks Patiokitty

[Greenday]

My dad was like that and still kind of is. For years, my stepmom controlled my dad. And even to today, he still kinda has to do stuff behind her back. It took years for him to finally stand up to her. Honestly, when your dad is being completely whipped by another woman, you are basically fucked. And the sooner you realize that and drop all expectations from him, the sooner it stops hurting. Once I stopped expecting anything of my father, I know longer became disappointed in things he did which I know were things my stepmom made him do. There's nothing you can do about it either.

My dad lost all his friends, I didn't talk to him for years and made it clear I outrightly hated the bitch he married. They got married about 11 years ago. It wasn't until the past couple years that he finally has stood up for himself.

Honestly, if there is anything that could be done, I don't know what it is. I certainly didn't see it when it was happening and I still don't see even now. I kinda doubt there is anything. But yea, the sooner you give up hope, the sooner it stops hurting.

[Dilorenzo]

There are a couple of possibilities I see here. One is to let things go on as they are. Things will either fix or they won't - your fiances father will either push himself out of the life of his existing family, his children, or he won't.

Or there's the "Dad, until you grow up, you're not part of my life anymore" way, which, I'll admit, is a lot more drastic, risky, but might make the father see exactly how much pain he's causing. It requires your fiance to tell him exactly everything that he's done, and how he (your fiance) feels about it.

There's really no initially good way of dealing with it, unfortunately.

[Seshat]

Everyone's given good emotional advice. I don't have anything to add there.

Practical advice:

* Grab everything which belongs to his mother, especially anything of emotional value. Give it to his mother, or your fiance and your brother keep it. But get it out of that house.

* Grab anything of emotional value that his mother inherited from her family. Expect that it will otherwise be 'lost'.

* Have his mother speak to her divorce lawyer about what paperwork she'll need that might be in the house. Grab it, and if it's something that both parties will need, get it copied and the copy recorded as a valid-and-correct copy. (The lawyer will be able to tell you how to do it.)

* Get things that are staying in the house valued. (Again, talk to his mother's lawyer. Maybe take multiple photographs of each room, and ask his advice on what to get formally valued.)

* Hm. DO get dated and clear photographs of each room - multiple photographs, showing as much as possible of the rooms. Record make and model numbers of appliances that are shared-ownership. Store copies of these photographs with his mother's lawyer.

* You can probably do a lot of this when they next go away for a weekend. Or just at times when they're away. I know it's a lot, but it'll help his mother.

* And, of course, your fiancee needs to move out. He's going to be pushed out anyway.

[Miss_Stress]

* And, of course, your fiancee needs to move out. He's going to be pushed out anyway.

Thanks Seshat we've been looking at property and it is so expensive to even rent we think his mum has all the legal documents she needs but my fiance will text her to make sure.

[Sapphire Silk]

Great advince here. I don't have a lot to add, and the assessments of the situation are pretty much spot on.

Fiance can't do much about this situation. It is what it is. Force Dad to make a choice, and he will likely choose the bitch. She has his balls in a vice, and until Dad pries them loose, she's calling the shots.

I would add that fiance should take extensive photographs on the condition of the house. The Bitch is likely to either accuse Mom of damaging it at some point, or damage it herself, affecting the final sales price of the home. Fiance should cover himself and Mom.

Is there anyway, Miss Stress, that you and Fiance can move in together prior to your getting married? That would probably be a better financial solution than him trying to move to another house with Dad and the Bitch.

[Seshat]

we've been looking at property and it is so expensive to even rent

I don't suppose his brother or mother have space for him, even for 'until you and he are ready to live together'?

[Miss_Stress]

I don't suppose his brother or mother have space for him, even for 'until you and he are ready to live together'?

His mum has said she will take him if the situation continues to deteriorate further, and I know that if he was ever evicted by this partner that his mum would let him stay with her he just doesn't want to have his relationship with his father destroyed.

Something else happened last night - she had her grandson over and let him go into the hallway unattended - where my fiance's used diabetic needles are kept in a yellow tub! Luckily the child (and he is another rant altogether, let's just say I didn't like him when I saw him kick my fiance's very old cat) wasn't hurt because he didn't go near them, but she went mad and shouted, and the basic gist of the rant was "how dare he have diabetes!" She didn't say those words but she may as well have.

[Jester]

I have a few comments here.

She is controlling of his dad to the point where his dad must ask permission to visit his other son - my fiance's brother. She has also stripped the house my fiance and his dad live in of all traces of my fiance's mother - photographs, possessions, everything.

This woman is an insecure needy control freak superbitch. Clearly she has issues. Her issues, however, are not the only problem.

My fiance's father is also starting to lie to him, and we suspect it is her doing.

Let' lay blame where it belongs, and in this case, the only one making your fiance's father lie is...your fiance's father. Sure, Superbitch is a manipulative wench. But Dad is an adult with free will, and makes his own choices. Clearly he is choosing to side with this turdstain of a woman over his own children. Is he being blinded by her to a great degree? Certainly. But no one is forcing him to lie to anyone, and these are not little white lies, either. These are clearly deceptions on his part--intentional deceptions. I don't absolve Superbitch of blame here, mind you. But Dad is no innocent in all of this, either.

his father's partner drove her previous ex-partner's daughters from their home, and promptly moved her daughters in. Now my fiance is worried that the same will happen to him.

Fiance's worry is well-founded. Superbitch clearly is following a time-tested pattern that has served her purposes. She will continue to do so, and unless Dad grows a spine and a scrotum, Fiance is going to find himself shown the door in short order. My suggestion is for him to start looking for a place pretty much NOW. Will it be tough? Yes. Will it be expensive? Yes. Will it be better than what he is going through now and what is coming? Yes, and yes.

his father's new partner is still insisting on moving in to the house, along with her daughter

She can insist all she wants. But if Dad doesn't let her, she can't do a damn thing. So once again, blame must fall at least partially on Dad if this happens. No one can make him do something against his will.

She has also pressured his father into an engagement, despite the fact they have known each other for less than a year and his father is yet to divorce his mother.

Length of time known and current marital status has never prevented people from getting engaged.

This new partner has also threatened to kill my fiance's mother if she sets foot near the house, the house that my fiance's mother currently still owns half of.

A good point. That house is currently legally owned by Mom and Dad. NOT by Superbitch. If Mom wants to, she can probably legally prevent Superbitch from moving in, or at least making it damn hard for her to do so. I am sure her lawyer, if he is worth his salt, has a few ideas on the subject.

But as Dad also owns half the house, in the end, at least until the house is sold, he probably will be able to get Superbitch in, if he wants. Once again, a good share of blame if this happens goes on Dad's shoulders.

Also, if this woman makes any direct threats to Mom or actually goes to harm or intimidate her, Mom should immediately contact the police. I know someone that this very thing happened to, and in that case the husband and new partner were both cops...with guns. Made quite a splash in the local papers down here. And in the legal system.

She has said that my fiance's mother cannot see her own son, something which has upset my fiance greatly as not only is he an adult, but he misses his mother very much and finds it very galling that some woman is trying to stop his mother visiting him at home.

Fiance is an adult. Which means he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
Mom is an adult who owns half the house. Which means she can go there whenever the fuck she wants, unless there is a court order or restraining order preventing her from doing so.
Superbitch has no legal right to control who comes and goes at that property.
Dad, of course, does have that legal right.
However, even if Dad says Mom can't come to the house, and Mom listens (or the legal system sides with Dad), that would not prevent Fiance from seeing Mom. It would merely prevent Fiance from seeing Mom at that house. What, they can't meet elsewhere? In Mom's new digs? In public? At other relatives' places?
Pardon my bluntness, but if Fiance honestly believes that he can't see his Mom simply because Superbitch says Mom can't come to the house, Fiance, like his father, needs to grow a pair.

My fiance is feeling very upset about the situation, as he feels he is no longer welcome in his own home.

He isn't. That is the absolute fact of the matter. Superbitch is wrapping her tentacles around Dad, and is ridding Dad of the remnants of his life with Mom. And that, of course, includes Fiance and his brother.

The sooner Fiance finds his own place, or another place, or moves in with Mom, or any other place but that increasingly toxic house, the better it will be for him on all counts.

He has tried to speak to his father, who has not yet listened to anyone about it.

"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." Those are the words of Yoda that I so often quote. And for not the first time, they have more wisdom than that of a simple movie quote. Fiance should not try to speak. He should simply speak. Make his voice heard. Force Dad to LISTEN TO HIM. Corner dear old Dad and say, look, man, we HAVE TO TALK. NOW. And don't brook any interference from Superbitch. Better yet, corner Dad when Superbitch is not around, as honestly, she would find a way to turn that situation to her advantage.

Either way, with Superbitch present or not, Fiance's talk with Dad will probably not result in anything. But to not speak his thoughts, to not tell Dad what the hell is going on, what he sees happening, would be as wrong as anything Superbitch has done. It would be admitting defeat to this waste of a fertilized egg, admitting that she is right. Not only in general, mind you, but in the eyes of Dad, it would be a tacit admission by Fiance that Superbitch is right.

Hell, the best situation would be for both sons to corner Dad alone and make him listen to what they have to say. And SAY it. Like an adult. Man to man. Make him HEAR them, even if he won't LISTEN.

He won't listen to other members of the family, and my fiance fears that it won't be long before he is driven out too, as well as his relationship with his father breaking down completely.

A keen and accurate observation by Fiance. Now he just has to do something about it. (I.e., move out and speak to his dad with his brother, as detailed above.)

I am at a loss as to what to do to help.

Honestly, there is nothing you can do directly. Well, short of running over Superbitch, and as tempting as that may be, it probably won't out well for you in the long run. (But feel free to imagine it. Vividly. In color. And slow motion. It will make you feel a lot better, I promise you.)

But be there for your fiance. Let him know you care, that you are there for him, and let him know what you think he should do. Let him know what you think he CAN do. Help him to see that he can empower himself. Help him to see himself as a man fighting for what's right, rather than a boy losing his father.

Your fiancé is right - he's not welcome at his own home any more and it's all the new partner's doing.

No. As I said above, there are two people at fault here....Superbitch and Dad. I think I explained myself on this point eloquently enough above, so I shall not repeat my point.

The new partner is a clingy, needy bitch with control issues and will stop at nothing to get what she wants.

Quoted for absolute truth and clarity.

But yea, the sooner you give up hope, the sooner it stops hurting.

No.

I agree that that is the easy way out. But oftentimes it is better to stay and fight then just give up hope. (And by "stay," I don't mean "stay in that house." In this case, it is figurative.)

I would rather hold on to hope and bear the pain of disappointment than to give up all hope and walk away with my soul bowed. For that pain, there is no cure. Because with every disappointment, hope springs eternal for what the future may yet bring.

There is always hope. Always.

[Miss_Stress]

Thanks Jester, great advice as always it's hard to know what to do because I've never faced anything like this before.

[Jester]

Miss Stress, I've never faced anything like that, either. But I do have two advantages. The first is that I am not involved, which allows me to focus clearly on the problem. The second is that I've been kicking around longer than you (i.e., I'm an old fart), so I've had more experience for my mind to draw upon.

[Seshat]

One other thing I'm seeing here: I believe this woman is abusing your fiance's father.

Warning signs of abuse

Abuse in general

Now, his father is an adult. Unless he's an elder who's no longer capable of making their own honest judgements, your fiance can't actually prevent this. If his father does come under the parameters for 'elder abuse', contact the local resources for abuse prevention: if nothing else, the police, or the local Lifeline or Salvation Army charities will be able to refer you to help.

If he's still fully compos mentis, you can't do anything to prevent the situation. However, you can certainly get support and advice - from the police, from support groups, from charities like Lifeline and the Salvation Army.

You will both find that some people are skeptical of a male being abused by a female. Ignore them, it happens.

[iradney]

Miss_Stress - I can only agree with previous posters. Fiance's Dad is unfortunately allowing SuperBitch to dictate his life. I find it VERY sad that someone would allow a third party to interfere with their relationship with their child, but some people are VERY persuasive and can completely take someone over without them realising it's happened.
Many hugs for you and for Fiance. It's gonna be a very tough time for the two of you, but I think this can also show Fiance how NOT to be a father when the two of you decide to start a family, KWIM?

[Dilorenzo]

You will both find that some people are skeptical of a male being abused by a female. Ignore them, it happens.

Quoted for truth. Also abuse also does not mean, as many first assume, purely physical, though it can take that form as well in the female abuser relationship.

Of course, the only one who can do anything about it is his fiances father, as Seshat said. All fiance can do in that situation is try to help, offer to help, but he may find himself getting pushed away harder in that situation. The problem with these situations is everything in them is a double-edged sword surrounded by egg-shells and baby chickens.