Relationship Advice - may be a bit long

[customersruinmylife]

Sorry for the relationshippy stuff, but I needed the opinion of someone who doesn’t know me.

I have been with my girlfriend for coming up two years now. She has always had a jealous streak in her, but it has always been something I have been able to handle. We spend on average three days a week together (which I class as a miracle considering I am Monday to Friday and she is practically a night worker). We don’t just sit about, we go out on dates every week, go for meals, go for walks and stay at each other’s houses.

Like I said, she has a jealous streak. It always came about whenever I would go out with friends and she wasn’t there. It was cute at first. I would get a couple of texts saying “I hope you’re behaving yourself” etc. I always suggested she came along with me and my friends, but she never agreed.

Then I made a couple of new friends, and her behaviour completely changed. I have mentioned many times in recent threads the Five Awesome Co-Workers. Well, I made very, very good friends with two of them. The three of us instantly got along like we had known each other years. It actually made me feel better than I had in years. Although I can safely say that I have many friends, recently, I haven’t felt as though I have had any CLOSE friends.

So, girlfriend and I go for a drink, and we run into the two CWs. I introduce them to her, they sit with us for about ten minutes, and then they leave us to our night.

GF: I DO NOT like those guys, and I don’t want you to spend any time with them.

I questioned her on this. Maybe she knew them from before and had a history. Nope. Maybe they had done something mean and I hadn’t noticed. Nope.

GF: I just got a bad vibe from them. I don’t trust them. They will lead you down a bad path.

This was after ten minutes of conversation. I need to give a bit of a description of the two CWs. They are both middle class, they despise anything to do with drugs, they are studying at university, they are both very polite and well spoken, and most of our night outs end up with the three of us having some sort of philosophical debate. It was hardly like they were two foul mouthed junkies.

As the summer went on, if the CWs and I were on shift together, we would have a drink together when we finished. However, I only ever did this if GF was working. I would never ditch her like this, because as I mentioned, our working hours mean that we have to take every opportunity to see each other. I never lied to GF, but any time I told her that I was having a drink with them, she would either hang up the phone, or demand I not speak to her for a couple of days.

Now I need to say something. I am not a pushover. My response would always be “Fine, I won’t then.” Which seemed to take her by surprise.

After a couple of weeks of this, I actually resorted to lying about where I was. I had a sudden realisation of this, because I had never lied to her before, and I was lying to spend time with friends. In the end I decided to have it out with her, and tell her that I’m not going to accept her opinion on my friends until she spends time with them and has evidence to back up her claims. She refuses. I tell her that I’m not going to ditch two good friends when she is either not telling me something or is being unreasonable.

A couple of weeks pass, and GF seems to have gotten over everything. I think everything is OK. The two CWs then return to university (their university is in a city a couple of hours away)

Last weekend, the CWs returned to visit. I go for a drink with them. GF finishes work a couple of hours later, but flat out refuses to meet me after seeing them, and goes home. Fine.

The CWs turn to me and suggest that I go to visit them at their university for a day or two. The schools have a weeks break in a few weeks, so it seems like a good time to go. I meet up with GF and decide to be upfront and tell her that I have been invited down there.

Me: But I will arrange it so that we don’t miss each other.
GF: If you go down there and visit THEM, we’re through. And I mean it.

I don’t know what to do. Should I have stopped being friends with the two CWs when she first went mad? Should I cancel the trip? Is she being unreasonable? Am I being unreasonable? Everyone seems to be giving me different answers.

[Amusement Gal]

I'm not much to talk since I hit jackpot at Boyfriend #1, but she's going WAY too far. There's Jealous, and then there's, "Talk to someone and I'll call the mob". There is no discernible reason to not like someone without a reason that ISN'T control issues or something (aside from actual skeevies). If she's pulling the, "I'll dump you!", threat, I say if you enjoy your friends' company that much, call her on it. If she's going to do this every time you try to enjoy harmless fun with friends, what's she going to do next? You've already said that they're trustworthy, and she seems to not trust you enough to believe it, or even get to know them. Honestly, it's up to you, but in my opinion she's just being unreasonable.

[MaggieTheCat]

From what you have given us here, I would say your girlfriend is being way unreasonable. Has she given you a definitive reason as to why she doesn't like them? "They are bad for you" is not enough. Why are they bad for you? It sounds like you need to have a very serious talk with her about this, if you want your relationship with her to continue. It sounds like you have tried this or had some kind of talk already but did you really get any answers from her? It didn't sound like it.

I would say that if she is giving you the ultimatum of "me or them", from what I have heard I would go with them. Obviously you know the situation better than any of us ever will so you will have to make your own decision. I have always abhorred people who get into relationships and then demand that their SO limit or cut out time with friends because they are jealous. If there is a good reason to not be friends with someone, that is one thing. It is also one thing if she simply didn't like them and didn't want to hang out with them herself, but didn't mind if you hang out with them. But to give you an ultimatum over this is ridiculous (IMO) and I think kind of shows you what kind of person she really is.

So ask yourself, do you want to be with someone who you are going to either have to tip-toe around and lie to just in order to be friends with some people, or else allow her to pick and chose your friends and when you are able to see them?

Edit to add: Her behavior will not change. Do not think that if you stay with her long enough or show enough commitment to her, she will relax. She will not. If you decide to be with her, be prepared for this kind of behavior and reaction for the duration of the relationship.

[thansal]

Edit to add: Her behavior will not change. Do not think that if you stay with her long enough or show enough commitment to her, she will relax. She will not. If you decide to be with her, be prepared for this kind of behavior and reaction for the duration of the relationship.

Only Sith deal in absolutes.

That said, probably correct.

I was the irrationally jealous SO in my previous serious relationship. I took issue with her spending time with other friends that I didn't like (fairly irrational reasons, I just didn't like them). For me a lot of the problems stemmed from being depressed, and my reactions were mostly internalized and only expressed in good old passive aggressiveness (she had no clue I took issue with some of the things she did until well after she broke up with me). I wasn't able to step past the problems until after she broke up with me and I was miserable for a while, and eventually got better (why? I don't really know). These were not control issues, and I never made an ultimatum (I just made her, and me, miserable), however it sounds fairly similar.

My mixed advice is this:
Unless you really manage to confront the situation head on it will not go away. You could cave and not go to see your friends, and that could be fine. You might be able to get through this with her, though you might not. If you don't manage to get through this, it is likely that you will find your self in a similar situation at some point, and that just isn't good.

I honestly wish you the best of luck, and I hope you make a further effort to try communicating with her about the situation. I understand just how damn frustrating it can be trying to talk about something you view as important when the other party simply refuses to talk about it, however I still think it is worth trying a few times.

Ultimately it comes down to your decision, if you think it is worth pursuing a solution to your problems, if it is worth putting off the trip to see your friends to give her another shot or 2.

Obviously, as others have pointed out, ultimatums are rarely healthy things, and I hope you can resolve everything.

[Kara]

I hope you can work this out. I truly do.

That being said....

When my ex and I first started dating in high school, she flat-out told me she didn't like my friends and didn't want me hanging around them. So I didn't associate with any of them, when she was around. Then she decided she didn't want me having those friends at all and I was given a choice. Them or her. I was young, dumb, and in love, I didn't want to lose her.

It never ended. Throughout our relationship from dating to marriage, until the last day we saw each other in the same household last December, she did that to me ALL the time. I never even asked if I could go hang out with my friends after work, I already knew the answer. Friends would invite me to hang out with them and I had nothing to say other than, "My wife wouldn't like that, I can't."

It wasn't just about friends, it honestly got ridiculous. She would give me ultimatums on getting chores done, video games, and even TV shows I liked that she didn't. I had done nothing but show her that it worked, and she'd pull that every single time. And every single time I obeyed and chose her.

Her reasoning for giving me such ultimatums? "I don't like them." "I just don't have a good feeling about them." "Something feels off." For games/TV/books? "That's violent/bloody/evil." "I don't agree with that." "I just don't like it and I don't think you should expose yourself to that kind of trash."

I don't know your GF as well as you do, I only know what I've been through. But it's very familiar to me. Ultimatums should NOT be made over petty things. It's all about control.

[MaggieTheCat]

I never even asked if I could go hang out with my friends after work, I already knew the answer.

Unless you're under the age of 18, you really should not have to ask anyone for permission to hang out with your friends, at least not all the time. Okay, yes, there are some exceptions, like if you had plans already and want to change them. But for your average weekday "I wanna go have a drink with my friends, I'll be home in an hour" type of situation, you should not have to ask your SO for permission. That's just unhealthy.

Edit to add: My husband and I rarely do things without each other now that we're living together. But when I lived in Wisconsin, I had a big group of friends who I'd often hang out with. When my husband and I first started dating, I'd always ask if he was okay with me hanging out with my friends instead of spending the evening playing WoW or talking on the phone with him. I'm pretty sure he thought I was a little crazy, because his answer was always, "Uh, yeah, why wouldn't it be okay?" Eventually I stopped "asking" him, "Hey, do you mind if I go to the bar with Josh?" and started "telling" him "I'm gonna go to the bar with Josh, I'll call you later." If he wanted to spend the evening with me, he'd tell me, and I'd work something out. But I never needed his permission to hang out with my friends and I believe, now at least, that that is healthy.

[kibbles]

If a significant other arbitrarily tried to dictate who my friends were, I think I'd be the one to end it first. If I wouldn't allow my parent to dictate who to hang out with, I sure wouldn't let a significant other or anyone else for that matter.

Hope things work out for you.

[Rapscallion]

If she gets her way with that ultimatum now, she'll keep using it. Eventually she'll continue until you finish it anyway, and then you'll be out her and your friends.

I'd call her on it. Granted, I can't say from here how good your times together are. It's your call, but from what you've said she sounds poisonous.

Rapscallion

[yeahwhatev]

This is not about jealousy. It is about CONTROL. Her insecurities are dominating her actions. If I were you, walking away would be more than an option. I am not you, don't know what your prospects are or how attached to this girlfriend you are.

Since you asked for advice, here is a stranger's POV. The woman needs counseling, and your relationship does as well. Giving in to this one instance will not end the problems. There are multiple issues here.

1) Insecurity.
Everyone in a relationship has a *SIDE*... Mostly, in all "Relationship issues", there is your side, their side, and the truth. You say you have given her NO reason to distrust you. That may be true, but not in her eyes. You need to know what is causing her opinion that there is something bad going on when you are not within eyesight. In my own experience, Insecure people create drama and faults because of past experiences. Was she cheated on? Is there a (forgive me..) "Family secret" which causes her to distrust men?

This could be some REAL issues as well. I have been friends with some Men who had bad habits, and one or two Users. Some men don't consider flirting anything other than speaking. Some men don't consider Oral sex more than a peck on the cheek. It could be something you do that reminds her of something entirely else, and she is simply not talking about it. One thing to do is find out what is TRULY setting her off.

The fact is, you shoved it to the side, instead of dealing with it. Getting into a fight and allowing her to be mad, is not dealing with it. When she gives you an answer that she "Just doesn't trust those guys" it means that she doesn't trust YOU not to be tempted by whatever mischief THEY get into. Not trusting strangers, without any real evidence pointing towards bad behavior, is a red flag. Not trusting YOU in any situation involving anything is the Planet MARS of a Red Flag.

2)Blackmail.
She is holding your relationship hostage to get what she wants. The way it's described is not desperation, but rage. Imagine what would happen if you continue the relationship. Would you want to have children with this woman? From this minor description, I would not see it as a far cry from possibility of her threatening to never allow you to see your children again, if you didn't dump another friend.. or quit a job.. ad nauseum.

3)Communication
"Do it or else." You have passed the point of communication and gone into threats. This is a hole you will NEVER dig yourself out of. Letting her "Be angry" and allowing issues to fester will only give credence to whatever issues she is having. The trust issues are bad. allowing them to stay was worse. Now that you are into Ultimatums, it's make or break time. This is not open communication, it's a fight and there will be no winners.

You really should consider couples counseling. A trained mediator and counselor can bring the real issues to bear.

Since I am speaking to a stranger, I can be blunt. Unless she wants to fix herself, it's over. You are not blameless that it got to this point. You may have some responsibility in causing it, I have no way of knowing. The only way to make it better is to stop feeding the negative aspects of this situation.

If this relationship is important to you, the only reason I would not go on the trip is if you were headed to a counselor then and there. You need to sit down with this woman and let her know how deeply this is affecting you. This is not a healthy relationship, and things need to change and stay changed for the better. The only way to have a successful relationship is with trust. Working on building communication and trust is not an easy thing. Somehow, you either never had her confidence, or lost it. You need to find out, and she may need to do some soul searching.

Honestly.. she simply sounds young and .. overly emotional (Yes.. I had another description.. I am trying to be nice..)

That's it.. the advice is fix your relationship first, or break up with her and enjoy the trip. You can't keep on the way things have been going. Jealous women tend to.. break boundaries and.. personal property.. when left to stew..

[Greenday]

That's not jealousy, that's manipulative. You're an adult, you can hang out with whomever you like. Your life doesn't and should revolve around one single person and she's going to have to deal with that. If she can't give a legit reason for not wanting you to hang out with them, she doesn't have any reason at all. She's no good for you.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Think about this: if you were a woman and it was a man doing this to you, what would you think?

I've had male friends... close male friends...who were desperate enough to marry women like this. They both eventually lost not only their friends, but lost the manipulative woman as well. They lost everything. One actually ended up dying, and we heard about it through the freaking grapevine months after the fact. That's how thoroughly and completely his wife had managed to isolate him.

This is an abuse pattern. (I'm not saying this woman killed my friend, I don't have a clue how he died or why. Just that he did. You know what I know.). But anyways, yeah, the first thing abusive people do is cut their victims off from their support system.

[Seshat]

Ultimatums should NOT be made over petty things.

I would go so far as to say 'ultimatums should not be made'.

Even in situations where one spouse is allergic to cats and the other desperately wants one, or one spouse wants children and the other doesn't, or suchlike... yes, those are situations which cannot be resolved without making someone unhappy.

But they shouldn't be ultimatums and anger and control and rage. They should be resolved with care and consideration and mutual support. Even if it requires the couple to hire an external mediator (couples counselling, for example).

Anyway ... good luck, whatever you decide.

[BlaqueKatt]

in the 8 years I've been with my spouse the ONLY person I've told him not to see is a female, who was doing nothing but trying to break us up because her sister needed an American husband for a green card. I may not like some of his friends, but they're his friends, not mine, I don't have to be around them.

[MoonCat]

Without even reading everyone's response (sorry if this has already been said)....She is being COMPLETELY unreasonable. "I don't want you to see them." WTF?

You are not just her BF, you are an individual, entitled to your own interests, friends and life. No one else has the right to tell you not to hang around with friends. She's a control freak, sorry to say, and possibly has serious insecurity issues. She wants approval rights over your friends. Is this your mom or your girlfriend??

This kind of attempted control is close to being abuse. One thing abusive people do is cut you off from everyone else who matters to you. She's trying to emotionally manipulate you by threatening to break up with you. If you have to lie and sneak around in order to have normal adult friendships with other people, then it's not a healthy relationship for YOU.

You have to do what's right for you. I hope she wakes up and gets some therapy to figure out why she's so threatened by your having friends, but I won't hold my breath. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

[crazylegs]

I've not had time to read everyones responses so apologies if this is repetition - Get the hell out of there. There is no legitimate reason why one partner should ever tell the other that they 'musn't' see their friends. I've been where you are now and when the relationship is over (and I mean when) you'll suddenly find yourself with no friends, no outside interests (because olnce teh friends go so do they), with no time spent apart from the G/F and in a job you hate (because she won't let you change).

Like I said, I've been there and it's not fun. Get out now.