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  • just about to the point of tears

    Long story here....

    So I've worked closely with a contracted coder for years now. This past year, he's gotten worse and worse about dependability, and has tried to hang over my head the fact that he has access to a rather large percentage of my websites and work.

    Recently, I tried to expand to the local clienteles....and my first attempt to reach out was to the company that my husband works at. Big mistake.

    I completed my part of the project back in May. Coder guy (we'll call him JO) promised the coding end would be done by end of June.

    Like an idiot, I paid him upfront. He was having "financial difficulties", and to boot, refused to work further until I paid him the money. Red flag again. Being that he was a friend of mine, I figured I was being a Good Samaritan.

    Fast forward to July. I bring up the lateness, and he tells me that he had ANOTHER project he was working on for someone else, that has bumped mine out of priority. I am upset, but he tells me that he may be sued if he doesn't get it done, so I cover for him with the client. And cover for him. And cover for him.

    August. Still not done, and in fact, tells me that it'll be done end of this month "for sure". Of course, then he disappears, and whenever I bring up the project, he flips out, tells me I'm being a *itch, and blocks me on all communication fronts. He always, ALWAYS unblocks me a day or two later, apologizes, and promises to work on the project. My husband at this point has been hearing it from his bosses, about how he should've warned them about this.

    When one of the company's client visits, they showed him a mockup of the site. The client was impressed, asked who did it. "One of our employee's wives, don't even bother though, they can't meet a deadline ever. Just find someone else." That hurt. A lot.

    It's now October, and he'd given me and the client a deadline of the 19th. A week before the deadline, he claimed he was moving to a new home, and that "definitely" it'd be done by the 31st. I was so frustrated at this point that I flat out gave the client his contact information and said "here, you ride his case over it, he's not listening to me". Turns out, he refuses to answer the client's emails or phone calls. Great.

    Tonight, was it. I brought it up, and he completely, completely chewed me out. Told me that it was "my fault" he couldn't meet the new deadline because I gave him a new project to work on the side. I pointed out it was a 2 day project, and that I didn't get it, HE did. He got the client, and told me that he really needed the money, so he was going to do their job, and this current one, and that he'd be fine. I said sure, but that then I would be holding ALL other projects until the main one is done. Fine.

    I guess he wasn't okay with it, because it turns out he's been going to other people on the side for more work, because "I don't have anything for him anymore" and am being a "backstabbing *itch" because of that. And guess what's happened to our big project?

    I asked him for the files, told him I was going to hire someone else to finish it, and he lost it. Big time lost it. Refused to give them over flat out. I pointed out that hey, I own the files, I've paid you for them.

    He won't give me the files now unless I send him a document that, and his quote here, "relieves me of all liability in the project and states that I do not need to refund any monies paid to me in regards to this project." He then informed me that until I do so, he will not be working at all on the project. But if I want him to finish? He'd better have as much time as he "damn well pleases" to finish it.

    I have had it. I got him into this job in the first place. I've advanced him money countless times to help him cover birthday purchases, rent, bills, etc etc. I've gotten him into contact with several big clients that he now relies upon for his income. I've been his shoulder to cry on when he went through a divorce, when his life was in turmoil, and when he ended up in the hospital. When I heard he was low on cash and hungry, I'd hop online and order food to be delivered to his home. And this....this is how I've been treated as payment.

    So my title is wrong. I'm past the point of tears. I've cried several times while typing this, it hurts so much. He used to be a good friend of mine, but now I wish I'd never even known him.

    I've asked my husband if he doesn't mind letting me go to his work tomorrow. I'm going to be completely honest with them, and just tell them all that's going on. At this point, I know everything's coming out of my pocket, I just hope it doesn't end up costing me more than what I made....

    And I guess, tomorrow I'll be writing up this document and sending it over. My back's against a wall, if that's the only way I can get the files....then I guess that's that. He's destroyed our friendship and our business relationship, I hope he's happy. Actually, in his words, he "doesn't care at f***ing all"....
    By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

    "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

  • #2
    Seraph, I don't know much (i.e. anything) about your line of work, and I know you are already worrying about lost money ... but you might want to get some legal advice before writing that document. The absolute last thing you need now is for that to come back and bite you on the butt at some point in the future. Just my

    I'm sorry about your situation. This guy sounds like a first-class loser. You say
    I've advanced him money countless times to help him cover birthday purchases, rent, bills, etc etc. I've gotten him into contact with several big clients that he now relies upon for his income. I've been his shoulder to cry on when he went through a divorce, when his life was in turmoil, and when he ended up in the hospital. When I heard he was low on cash and hungry, I'd hop online and order food to be delivered to his home.
    Did he repay all the money you've loaned him? In reasonably good time, or did you have to wait for it? Myself, I would have taken a giant step backwards a long time ago -- a shoulder to cry on is one thing, but buying him food? Advancing him money so he can buy birthday presents, rent, bills ... and not once, but it sounds like many times? It sounds as if he now sees you as his default prop and is pissed off because YOU are now asking HIM to do something (i.e. honour his work commitments).

    Hang in there; you will get through this. And if he has the nerve to try to use you for support again ... just walk away and let him flat flat on his brains.

    Comment


    • #3
      Bah. He's a deadbeat and always will be. You may not know it now, but you'll be better off without him than you ever were with him.
      Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

      "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

      Comment


      • #4
        Quoth Pixilated View Post
        Seraph, I don't know much (i.e. anything) about your line of work, and I know you are already worrying about lost money ... but you might want to get some legal advice before writing that document. The absolute last thing you need now is for that to come back and bite you on the butt at some point in the future. Just my
        You have a point there. I may wait until tomorrow to see what to do about the document. Seeing as how he's acted now, definitely wouldn't be surprised to see him lash back at me.

        Quoth Pixilated View Post
        I'm sorry about your situation. This guy sounds like a first-class loser. You say Did he repay all the money you've loaned him? In reasonably good time, or did you have to wait for it? Myself, I would have taken a giant step backwards a long time ago -- a shoulder to cry on is one thing, but buying him food? Advancing him money so he can buy birthday presents, rent, bills ... and not once, but it sounds like many times? It sounds as if he now sees you as his default prop and is pissed off because YOU are now asking HIM to do something (i.e. honour his work commitments).

        Hang in there; you will get through this. And if he has the nerve to try to use you for support again ... just walk away and let him flat flat on his brains.
        He did repay most of it. Eventually. Sometimes he'd tell me he couldn't pay me back, and he'd give me "credit" on the next thing I'd work on. Half the time he'd remember, sometimes I'd have to prod him a little.

        My husband actually said just about the same exact words as you. He thinks my coder's gotten too used to falling back on me, and is getting hostile because he doesn't like what may happen.
        By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

        "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

        Comment


        • #5
          Actually, don't even think about writing that document.

          My guess is that he's done jack shit as far as that project is concerned and he has no way to pay you back for being in breach of contract, so now he's trying to get you to release him from it without going after him for something.

          After how he's treated you and how he's strung you along for four months, you don't owe him anything and you certainly don't owe him absolution for the money you paid in good faith and have gotten nothing but excuses and abuse for in return.

          Honestly, I'm wondering if he's got some problem with addiction or gambling or something that's causing his life to slowly but surely spiral down out of control.

          Either way, if you write that document, you might as well scrape up the funds and find yourself a new coder, because I'd be shocked if he's done anything you can use based on how he's demanding that you release him from the contract prior to him providing you with the materials that you've already paid for.

          ^-.-^
          Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

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          • #6
            I agree with Andara. If you can, check with a lawyer or equiv. I really think he has nothing usable and you will be doubly screwed if you do as he asks.

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            • #7
              I hate to say it, but IMHO it might just be easier to cut your losses and move on. He's already shown that he's willing to fight you tooth and nail over petty crap, and I personally have no reason to believe he won't continue to play and screw you over at every opportunity. I'm convinced that any victory you may gain over him will be Pyrrhic in nature.

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              • #8
                Hey, one thing you mentioned was him hanging over your head that he has access to websites and clients you've worked on together - make sure to change ALL passwords to new ones and inform clients that he has left your employment and any claims that he represents you or your company are false. Since it sounds like he's turning into a bitter, vindictive asshole, I wouldn't put it past him to take down/delete any prior work he can get his hands on.

                I agree that you shouldn't write anything releasing him from liability for the project or the money paid for the project. However, can you go to to the bank and file some form of reverse charge for the money you paid for the project? He's made it clear he will not deliver the agreed upon content, and has definitely missed all the deadlines. So no work = no money for him. If you can/do do this, make sure you've secured everything business related, since I'm pretty sure it would lead to him trying to take revenge.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks again everyone. I did change all the passwords I could. Was pretty much right after this:

                  [8:15:32 PM] Seraph: Well unfortunately, you've made it clear you refuse to work on this project, and that you'd be fine with screwing me over.
                  [8:15:45 PM] Coder: Absolutely.
                  I ended up sending him the document he wanted, because he got to the point last night that he told me if I didn't send it over, he was going to make my life miserable. So I spent an hour making a letter as airtight as possible, with the help of some great advice from Pedersen. Basically, I made sure to put some provisions into it that he wasn't relieved of liability until I confirmed everything was working up to the point he had claimed it was. He also at one point had "offered", before he got reaaallly hostile, to "help the new coder get settled in and to show them around". I included that in there too, that he has to do that.

                  He threw a FIT after he got it, pretty much was like "Just HAD to make sure you covered all your bases, didn't you? Well, here's where I'm uploading the files, I hope this was worth it to you."

                  I also met with the clients. I laid everything out on the table, explained the whole ordeal. They're upset, but also understanding of what happened. They made it clear they weren't going to pay anything extra, and I said it was understandable. This was my problem, my tough lesson to learn.

                  So....yeah. This is going to be fun now.
                  By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

                  "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The fact that he read through it and commented that you "covered all your bases" appears to confirm that he was combing over it looking for a way to use it to screw you over further. Good for you for doing your best to ensure that he couldn't have anything in it to use against you.

                    Good luck with this.

                    Oh, and I would totally go over the files to check for malicious content prior to doing anything them. Both for stuff that's included that's malicious on its own, as well as stuff included that's more about screwing up the code and making it worthless.

                    ^-.-^
                    Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Heh, yeah I already just found a txt file hidden inside with a bunch of BS written about me. Claiming its all my fault, "Seraph's the huge f***up here", and just....rambled about all sorts of absolutely crazy stuff. One hilarious bit was that I "delayed him for 5 hours" because I "had an allergic reaction to Benedryl".

                      I'm kinda confused as to a) how *my* allergic reaction delayed him, especially as he lives on the opposite coast, and b) how a reaction to poison ivy turned into a reaction to Benedryl.
                      By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

                      "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I talked with her about possibly working on it myself; but she's got another of us on the job and I think he'll do well. Including checking for anything malicious or just plain incompetent.
                        Seshat's self-help guide:
                        1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
                        2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
                        3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
                        4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

                        "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah for the community helping out - sad that a long-term friend decided to go haywire like that. I've also had someone I thought was a friend eventually go from nice to CBS (Chronic Backstabbing Syndrome), but that was in a game, not dealing with someone's business, obligations and money.

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                          • #14
                            I'm so sorry.

                            There's obviously so much more to the story than you're getting from him, but it seems like you never will get it now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Quoth Seshat View Post
                              I talked with her about possibly working on it myself; but she's got another of us on the job and I think he'll do well. Including checking for anything malicious or just plain incompetent.
                              Yep, I'm so grateful for all the offers of help I've received. I'll definitely let you guys all know what goes down.

                              Right now, he's trying to talk to me about still conducting business together. Ha. Haha. hahahaha.
                              By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

                              "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

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