How much is too much?

[snugglegirl05]

Long post

I am trying to figure out how much is too much regarding something my boyfriend does.

People involved in this post

• boyfriend
• ex-girlfriend one *he is friends with her*
• ex-girlfriend two
• ex-girlfriend three *he is friends with her*
• male friend of boyfriend: mf of bf
• mutual female friend of boyfriend & mf of bf

My boyfriend, mf of bf & mutual female friend of boyfriend & mf of bf all live at the same apartment complex.

He has been a Christian for 20 years. He believes his calling in life is to help people with their problems...not matter what the problem is. He feels that is the Christian thing to do.

Here are some examples of the problems he has helped people with...

ex-girlfriend one:
was having relationship problems with mf of bf, who was her boyfriend at the time. She would call him to vent about her problems with him. They eventually broke up.

ex-girlfriend two:
was having problems personal problems as well as roommate problems. He would speak to her on the phone.

ex-girlfriend three:
was having personal problems as well as relationship problems with mf of bf. She also had family issues that she called him about.

mutual female friend of boyfriend & mf of bf:
boyfriend is currently helping her at her place & at his place with relationship & personal problems with mf of bf, who is her friend. He is the first male friend she has had.

From what my boyfriend has told me...

• she is in her late 20's/early 30's
• she was sexually abused when she was younger
• he does not know if her parents got her any professional help for that
• her parents are and have been over protective of her her entire life
• this is the first time she has ever lived on her own
• she has emotional & mental issues, but he does not know what they are
• she made a pact with her mother that she would not date any guy at the apartment complex until she has lived there for a year
• she told my boyfriend & mf of bf that she only wants to be their friend
• mf of bf can be manipulative & aggressive

My boyfriend was sexually abused when he was younger.

My boyfriend met the mutual female friend at the apartment complex all 3 live at several months ago. At that time, she was very reserved, & she kept to herself most of the time. Then the mf of bf became friends with her. After a while, the mf of bf asked my boyfriend to become friends with her. So they had pizza one night & watched a movie. This was over a month ago. Last week my boyfriend received a text from her stating "I need to ask you a question." She also called him to ask him if she could borrow his vaccuum cleaner. So he took it over to her place. She then asked him to stay so she could talk to him. Turns out when she was over at the apartment of mf of bf he somehow manipulated her to the floor while she was at his place, took off her shirt, & inappropriately touched her. She did not know what to do. She did not know how to say no. She felt victimized. They talked for a while, & then he left. Then a couple of days ago he told me she came over to his place at 7 a.m. to continue talking about the incident because as he put it, "she needs to get her head straight". She still felt victimized, & she does not know how to deal with the aftermath of the situation & how she is feeling. He told me she does not want to tell her parents or speak to a professional counselor. She wants to handle things on her own. He told me he wants to be her friend & help her through this ordeal. She also asked him to help her clean her apartment because she fractured her arm. He helped her this morning.

What I am trying to figure out is how much is too much?

[AnaKhouri]

It's great your boyfriend wants to help this woman, but honestly I think the best help he could give her is to encourage her to see a professional. She sounds like she needs way more help than he (or anyone else with no counseling experience) can give her.

[Taurus52]

She needs professional help to become assertive and she has gone past needing a little friendly counseling to attention seeking. Your bf can check this by declining her next couple of requests because "timing is bad" and watching her reaction. If she gets all whiny or retributive then it is time to press her to get professional help whether she wants to or not. Being Christian means helping your neighbor not living your life for them especially under threat of any kind.

[42_42_42]

There should be a local support group for survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Check online or call a local therapist and ask for information and then you or your BF can relay that info to her. Even if she's not comfortable going to a therapist one on one right now, a support group would be a great resource for her.

The incident that happened to her recently sounds like sexual assault (based on the description given here). She should at the very least make a police report about it.

[trailerparkmedic]

Ever hear the phrase "The Lord helps those who help themselves"?

I'm not saying that the girl needs to fix things herself--she needs professional help to process what happened to her recently (definitely) and as a child (probably). I'm using that phrase for your boyfriend. It's great that he wants to help people, and I don't see anything wrong with him talking to exs (as long as YOU are ok with it) but there are times when people need professionals, not a friend. He can't fix everything, but helping the girl find the help she needs is (IMO) a morally good thing to do.

[snugglegirl05]

I want to thank everyone for their advice.

What I am going to advise my boyfriend and the mutual female friend to go to the police & have them advise the 2 of them on what needs to be done.

I also feel that the mutual female friend should have an evaluation done by a therapist to determine her emotional & psyshological state of mind. She does need professional help.

[Jester]

While I am not a Christian myself, I do tend to try to help people a lot, sometimes to my detriment. So I can understand where your boyfriend is coming from, and applaud him for it.

However, I am not exactly sure what your question is. Are you wondering if the guy's sexual attention to the girl was too much? It was...it was basically sexual assault. Due to her history, she didn't really know how to react to it. Or, as I think you are, are you asking when does your boyfriend's helping others become too much? In which case, that is really something only YOU can answer. Does his helping others bother you? Or is it that he is helping his ex-girlfriends that bothers you? Has he given you any reason to believe that any of the helping situations was anything other than what he said it was? Or are your own insecurities playing with your head, and making things appear other than the way they are?

What, exactly, is the problem you are having with your boyfriend? Because, on the surface at least, I would think a significant other that goes out of their way to help others would be a good thing, as it reflects well on the character of the SO. Or are these helping situations interfering, in your opinion, with his relationship with you?

These are not easy questions for me to ask, and they are going to be even harder questions for you to answer. So take some time, and really think about them. Figure out what the issue is, and why it is an issue. And then, whatever it is, sit down with your boyfriend and discuss it with him. Because in the end, the only people who can resolve this whole thing are the two of you.

[Seshat]

I used to try to help everyone I could, and I learned a few things that your boyfriend may yet need to learn.

1. If I don't look after myself and my loved ones, I can't help ANYONE. I get sick, they might get sick or jealous or hurt. If they're dependents, I have a duty of care to them that overrides any 'outside helping' I may want to do.
Neglecting myself and my loved ones to care for someone else results in at best a zero-gain for society as a whole. At best. It can end up costing society-as-a-whole, because I/my loved ones can end up needing more help than I provided!

2. Helping means 'helping', not 'doing for'. Yes, if you're helping a child bake cakes, you handle do parts of it for them - the parts that are too dangerous for them. Yes, if you're helping someone process grief, it can be extremely helpful to bring them a week's worth of frozen meals.
But you can't process the grief for the grieving person. And you should have the child do the parts they're capable of. You have to allow people to have their own life experiences.
In a case like me explaining these things for your boyfriend, snugglegirl, I'm trying to help by putting into words experiences he may have had in the past, so he can try matching up my words with those experiences and see if it fits. Or he may find that some future experience matches with what I'm saying, and have a mental 'oh! now it makes sense!' moment.

3. Helping can mean graciously accepting help.
Yes, that sounds backwards on the surface of it. But think about it: the ultimate goal of helping people is for them to gain/regain independence (or 'as much as possible') within society. Part of that independence is the ability to help others. Who better for a newly independent person to practice on than the person who helped them so much?
Besides: sometimes you DO need help. How do you feel when you extend a helping hand to someone who needs it, and are rebuffed? How do you think it feels when you rebuff someone else?
(Note: there's a difference between a gentle and an ungentle rebuff. You are not obliged to accept help - but always consider what the gracious thing to do is; and be ready to humbly accept help when it is needed.)

4. You can't help people who don't try/don't accept it/don't want it.
You just can't. Or sometimes these people can be helped, but it requires a professional. Or it can be flat-out dangerous to help certain people.

5. Sometimes people aren't ready for the help you're offering.
It happens. Sometimes they're still in the stage of processing an experience, and aren't ready to get over it.
Or they're like my wife was at one point: counsellors were trying to teach her mental techniques she was incapable of applying because her neurochemistry was still wrong. Once it was sorted out, she suddenly went 'oh! (technique x) works now!'
Or there could be any of a number of factors. But for whatever reason, sometimes a person will refuse help from you, then six months down the track, accept what seems like an identical offer of help from someone else. Meh.

6. Sometimes they just don't want it from you.
And it can be for no 'good' reason. Your voice reminds them of their Uncle Jim. The way you explain things doesn't make sense to them. They've had a lot of bad experiences with people from your religion/racial group/socio-economic status/sexuality before. They don't like your piercings (or lack thereof).
It happens. Move on and help someone else.

[Barracuda]

Unfortunately, as much as your boyfriend may want to be a "white knight", he cannot fix the world's problems. I would ask him a couple questions to think about. Namely:
1. Does he understand that their is only so much you can do to help others? Namely, they HAVE to do a lot of the work themselves when it comes to healing from wounds like these. He can be supportive, but there is literally NO WAY for him to "make it all better". In fact, being a crutch can actually be detrimental, as the healing process will take longer.
2. Does he feel compelled to help men as well as women, or is he only interested in helping women? If the answer is he helps women, he needs to consider why that is. I am not saying that he only helps women to get close to them, it's just something that may show deeper psychological concerns he needs to work through.

Helping others is a worthy goal, but you do not help others by being a stepping stone for them to walk all over. Also, he isn't a professional--there are going to be issues that he doesn't know how to help, and it's fine to admit this and advise his friends to seek professional help, rather than try to help anyway and possibly make things worse. If his friend doesn't want to see a counselor about what just happened, that is her choice, but he does not wear a cape and call himself Captain Free Therapist. If she doesn't want to seek proper help, he should not go ahead and try to act as a counselor anyway. He should be supportive, but also firm about insisting she see someone who can give her proper help rather than drop the responsibility on him.

[Jester]

4. You can't help people who don't try/don't accept it/don't want it. You just can't.

This. And again, this. I know from painful personal experience with a friend who was in an abusive relationship. As much as I (and many others) tried to help, in the end, she just wasn't willing or ready to accept our help. And tragically, it cost her dearly. I've told that story in here enough, so I won't repeat it here, but it was a painful lesson attesting to the truth that Seshat wrote above. Something I hope your boyfriend knows, or has learned.

2. Does he feel compelled to help men as well as women, or is he only interested in helping women? If the answer is he helps women, he needs to consider why that is.

And there is the very real possibility that it is for the same reason that a lot of the people I help are women...because most of my friends are women, and I tend to get along with women better than with men. Of course, it could be that or any of a number of other things. Just saying.

[snugglegirl05]

Hi Jester

What Barracuda said is what I was trying to get at.

[snugglegirl05]

I spoke to my boyfriend this morning. Turns out she currently has family members staying at her place.

He told me that he received a call from her last night at 11:30 stating that she missed the last bus that drops her off at the apartment complex both of them live at, to meet her at a grocery store nearby, & to walk her home.

He did not know why she was out that late or where she went to.

What I do not get is why was she out that late alone considering what happened to her & how she feels?

[snugglegirl05]

Update

I found out from my boyfriend thatthe mutual female friend finally told her mom about the incident.

Her mom is currently speaking to the male friend to find out why he did what he did to her daughter as well as to counsel him on how her daughter feels about the situation. I do not know if it was the mom's decision or her daughter's decision.

She does not want to go to the police because she was not raped.

[Jester]

Turns out when she was over at the apartment of mf of bf he somehow manipulated her to the floor while she was at his place, took off her shirt, & inappropriately touched her.

She does not want to go to the police because she was not raped.

First, what he did is considered sexual assault if it was against her will. Of course, as you say she didn't know how to say no, that is a gray area, and chances are good that, legally speaking, she wouldn't have much of a case. So perhaps the police are not the best option.

HOWEVER, I reiterate that that is sexual assault. And because of that, this woman may just want to consider not having any more dealings with this guy.

Just a thought.

[Seshat]

As is increasingly common, Jester and I agree.

If she doesn't want to be victimised her entire life, she needs to learn how to stop giving off 'I'm an easy victim' signals. Which means she needs professional help.

NOTE: I am NOT blaming her. But it is simple fact that bullies and predators look for the 'weak and sick of the herd': in other words, people who are used to being victimised, people who are easy victims, people who don't know how to say no.

She needs to become someone who's capable of saying a firm 'back off', and following it up if necessary with a bone-breaking stamp on an assailant's foot. Even if the assailant is a supposed 'friend'.