Duck Season! (Cooking Advice, Please...)

[Jester]

I have a cookoff coming up next Sunday. It is a barbecue cookoff, in which they encourage you to bring your grill and cook your stuff right there.

I don't have a grill. And I'm not buying one, either.

That being said, I do have a plan for a cool dish: barbecue duck nachos.

To do this right, I want to use pulled duck. So I plan on cooking a whole duck (or two) in my oven, low and slow. I also plan to lay bacon over the duck(s) to add some fat and flavor. My desired end result is juicy, flavorful, and oh so tender duck meat that I can pull apart easily with a fork.

Two questions:

Best time and temp for this?

And any good ideas for a barbecue sauce that would go well with pulled duck nachos? What I am looking to do is to take an existing bbq sauce, like perhaps Sweet Baby Ray's, and build on it, making my own sauce. Any suggestions on that end would be very welcomed.

For those wondering, I also plan on making my own salsa verde and perhaps even a lime cilantro creme fraiche for the nachos, and to avoid soggy chips, I plan on keeping the chips and duck separately heated, and building the nachos to order at the event. I have a great white cheddar cheese I discovered during Brewfest that I'm going to use, too.

So, bring it, my fellow kitchen residents!

[RecoveringKinkoid]

All I can tell you is that if you don't have a grill, and you dont' plan on buying one, good. Never grill duck unless you have your fire department on speed dial and your insurance is paid up.

I do not know how to make pulled duck.

Why am I responding to this thread if I have no useful info for you?

Because I want to know when to arrive for supper.

[Kara]

I have nothing to add to this conversation, but I had to say....

Wabbit Season!

[thansal]

I'm a sucker for the classics and thus immediately went to citrus (Duck L'Orange is damn good stuff) for sauce, but then backed away. I don't know how well it would go with chips/cheese and the other possible accoutrements of nachos/what direction you want to go in.

I guess I would say that a citrus sauce is at least worth a look, but might be a total flop.

I'm of no help for slow cooking a duck (I have only pan fried duck breast).

I would say that you should look into incorporating crispy duck skin in some way, as that's my favorite part of the bird, hands down.

Good luck!

PS: What Kara said

[lordlundar]

I'm not sure you need the bacon. Duck is fairly fatty and the flavour is a fair bit stronger than other poultry.

The regular good advice applies though: Brine the bird before you start. I would also butterfly it to ensure even cooking. No idea on a time or temp as I've never even heard of anyone attempting to make pulled poultry.

[NorthernZel]

I haven't got a clue myself, but you may check some of Heston Blumenthal's shows on Youtube and maybe get some hints, tips and/or tricks.

Heston Blumenthal is an "experimental chef" who is (in)famous for producing all sorts of crazy dishes (including eggs-and-bacon flavored icecream), but he is also a great fan of slow cooking. He once prepped a whole pigroast by tenderizing it by... putting it in a hot jacuzzi for 48 hours. I kid you not.

[Andara Bledin]

I was going to chime in with duck being fairly fatty, too. Pretty sure that the bacon, while being awesome, would also be rather redundant in this instance.

HERE is a recipe for an "award winning" duck dish. The first half is on the cooking of the duck itself, so you might be able to mine it for some info.

And HERE is another site with tips on cooking duck (among other things) that has videos.

Otherwise, I'm pretty uninterested in working in a kitchen, and baking and sauces are not my friends. >_<

^-.-^

[Jester]

Why am I responding to this thread if I have no useful info for you?

Because I want to know when to arrive for supper.

Lunch, actually. It's this coming Sunday, and I think it's at 2 pm.

I have nothing to add to this conversation, but I had to say....

Wabbit Season!

Amusingly, I have been thinking of making a rabbit and duck stew for some time, and calling it "Duck Season! Rabbit Season! Duck Season! Rabbit Season! Stew."

Which is funny when you think about it, because not only have I never cooked either one, I've never even EATEN rabbit.

I'm a sucker for the classics and thus immediately went to citrus (Duck L'Orange is damn good stuff) for sauce, but then backed away. I don't know how well it would go with chips/cheese and the other possible accoutrements of nachos/what direction you want to go in.

I am going in a barbecue direction, so while citrus would normally go with duck, not in this case.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure you need the bacon. Duck is fairly fatty and the flavour is a fair bit stronger than other poultry.

No, I don't NEED the bacon. But clearly you are forgetting the Number One Rule of the Kitchen: Bacon makes EVERYTHING better!

The regular good advice applies though: Brine the bird before you start. I would also butterfly it to ensure even cooking.

"Regular advice" means nothing to me, as I've never cooked a whole bird of any type in any way. Chicken MEAT, yes, but never a whole one, nor a turkey, and definitely not a duck. Butterfly a whole bird, though? Never heard of this one.....

I've never even heard of anyone attempting to make pulled poultry.

You've never had pulled (aka shredded) chicken in Mexican food?

Heston Blumenthal...once prepped a whole pigroast by tenderizing it by... putting it in a hot jacuzzi for 48 hours. I kid you not.

This actually makes lots of sense to me; if you remove the chlorine, a jacuzzi makes a brilliant slow poacher, if you think about it.

[CoffeeMonkey]

I've not made duck, but I've seen the cooking shows, and it seems that dealing with the fat is the hardest part. The main suggestion is to score the skin and steam or parboil the duck to render out the extra fat before putting it in the oven, or you could smoke yourself out of the house, and have greasy duck.

Bacon makes everything better, but I don't think it will help your duck. There's more than enough fat to keep it going. I'd suggest making the bacon on the side to sprinkle on top of the nachos. Then you get crunchy bacon to go with your juicy duck meat.

Also, if you're just going to pull the duck, why go to the bother of wresting with roasting the bird whole? Hack it into parts to make it easier to manage.

[Jester]

Same reason you would roast a whole loin: more fat inside to render, thus more flavor. Also, the bones will bring flavor as well, as they would in a stock. Whereas hacking it to pieces and then slow-cooking it for hours would make it dry and less than appetizing.

[AccountingDrone]

OK, duck is one of my favorite birds to cook so Ill have a go at it.

First, duck is very fatty so it needs neither brineing nor added fat. It is as was pointed out a fairly strong flavored critter, so I would definitely say that the smokey of bacon would not actually be of benefit.

Damn, I wish you were around here or me there so we could pick a day this week to work with a spare bird.

What I would do is:
Never salt the poor critter, especially if you are considering turning the leftover carcass into stock.

Wash it inside and out, and like with a chicken or any other whole bird check it out and pull any leftover bits of feathers out of the skin, and remove any spare globs of fat.

Pop it into a roasting pan in a rack, pour in a cup or two of water to keep any drips from burning and smoking. The steam created will help cook the bird. Roast covered at 300, breast side up for 1 hour, then breast side down for 1 hour, then up for 1 hour, then down for the last hour. I like to baste the skin with the drippings when I flip. This keeps the juices inside the bird,. Never poke or cut the skin, it lets the juices out and dries out the bird.

Now, DONT dump the drippings. You have *duck fat* <squeeee> one of the best cooking fats, IMHO, even better than leftover bacon dripping. For amazing, try frying small dice [1/3 inch] prosciutto and same size onion and potato. It is called Pommes Landaise [can also be done with goose fat] and is heavenly. Reserve teh duck fat in the fridge for cooking with.

Now, gently remove the skin. Slice it into strips and use for crunchy garnish.

Remove the meat, shred for your project.

Pop that carcass, if you want to cut it to make it fit a smaller pot, go for it. Scrub the roasting pan with a touch of plain water and pour into the pot with the carcass, you want any little crunchies and leftover duck flavor from the roaster. Now gently SIMMER, not boil the carcass for 1 hour in the water that more or less just covers the bones. Remove the carcass and strain out any bones that may have separated from the carcass. Pop into the fridge for long enough to solidify the fat, remove the fat and add to the container of duck fat. Don't waste it =) Put the duck broth back into a pot and gently simmer to concentrate it down to half.

If you salt it, in the process of condensing it it will get ungodly salty. If you add aromatics, then it may conflict with anything you may want to cook that doesn't have those aromatics. You also don't want to flavor the fat, it may conflict with cooking something else later.

[Jester]

Lots of information here, so I am going to address it as much as I can bit by bit.

First, duck is very fatty so it needs neither brineing nor added fat. It is as was pointed out a fairly strong flavored critter, so I would definitely say that the smokey of bacon would not actually be of benefit.

I am using the bacon to add smokiness to it, though that would be an added bonus, as this is a barbecue cookoff, and I wouldn't at all mind having smoky meat for it. But the reason I want to cook it with bacon over it is so that bacon renders its fat right into the bird, adding moisture and flavor. I see this as a win win.

As for the brining of it, I discussed how best to do this with a barbecue pitmaster that my bosses have imported for help with getting our new barbecue restaurant/bar off the ground. And he strongly suggested (insisted, actually) that I soak the bird in vinegar well beforehand. He said this is to reduce the gaminess, among other things, though I don't know that duck is either all that gamey or that that gaminess is a bad thing. But benefit of the vinegar is that it will allow me to get a nice seasoning on and in the bird, of the spices and herbs I feel will best suit where I want to go.

And where do I want to go? I want ridiculously tender, moist, juicy duck, so tender that I could pull it apart with a plastic spoon. The pitmaster and my head chef made some beef brisket the other day along these same lines. I am normally not a beef brisket kind of guy, feeling that it is the weakest of the barbecue meats, but this stuff was pure heaven. At one point, my head chef's brother gave me a piece to try, and as I was trying it, he started explaining where the piece had come from, i.e., what cut, etc. And as I was experiencing this foodgasm in my mouth, I just looked at Bro and said, "Don't speak." He laughed his ass off at that one.

Never salt the poor critter, especially if you are considering turning the leftover carcass into stock.

Honestly, had no intention of making stock. Don't cook enough on my own to warrant it. And frankly, I'm going to be putting enough effort into making everything else for this dish, so the carcass is going to be just that...a carcass. I know, it's sad, but you have to pick your battles.

Wash it inside and out, and like with a chicken or any other whole bird check it out and pull any leftover bits of feathers out of the skin, and remove any spare globs of fat.

I was about to say, "But it's a frozen duck, there won't be any feathers on it!" when I realized that, in this very thread, I pointed out that I have never actually cooked a whole bird myself. So there very well may be, and I shall take your sage advice.

Pop it into a roasting pan in a rack, pour in a cup or two of water to keep any drips from burning and smoking. The steam created will help cook the bird.

Excellent idea!

Roast covered at 300, breast side up for 1 hour, then breast side down for 1 hour, then up for 1 hour, then down for the last hour.

I appreciate the suggestion, but I am not going for roasted duck, but for barbecue duck, in other words, low and slow. It's gonna be at 200 or so for 3+ hours. That is the way I should be able to get that texture and consistency I'm after.

I like to baste the skin with the drippings when I flip. This keeps the juices inside the bird,. Never poke or cut the skin, it lets the juices out and dries out the bird.

More excellent ideas. And I had thought that I should baste it with its own fat.

Now, DONT dump the drippings. You have *duck fat* <squeeee> one of the best cooking fats, IMHO, even better than leftover bacon dripping. Reserve teh duck fat in the fridge for cooking with.

Better than bacon fat? Yes, I think I shall keep that in reserve for future use! Can I freeze it?

Now, gently remove the skin. Slice it into strips and use for crunchy garnish.

Still not sure what I'm going to do with the skin. A lot depends on how my seasoned marinade affects the skin. It's going to be one of those game time decisions, as it were.

Thanks for all the ducky advice!

[Kara]

Amusingly, I have been thinking of making a rabbit and duck stew for some time, and calling it "Duck Season! Rabbit Season! Duck Season! Rabbit Season! Stew."

Ha, I love it. Too bad I've just found out that it is currently Neeson Season

[Treasure]

Jester,
because you've never cooked a whole bird before, i'm going to suggest a "browning bag" - you find them with the foil; Reynolds is the only brand i've ever used....

you stick the bird in the bag, add whatever seasonings, seal it up, put it in the pan, pan in oven at whatever temperature for however long based on weight.... no basting, no turning, no further effort required....

I swear by the browning bag, it is what my mom has used for her thanksgiving and christmas turkeys for over 30 years..... and we've always had juicy tender bird.

your bird may have some "cooking tips" on the label, and the browning bag will also have instructions - if they differ, go with the lower temperature for longer, and use your meat thermometer to verify doneness

[AccountingDrone]

I am using the bacon to add smokiness to it, though that would be an added bonus, as this is a barbecue cookoff, and I wouldn't at all mind having smoky meat for it. But the reason I want to cook it with bacon over it is so that bacon renders its fat right into the bird, adding moisture and flavor. I see this as a win win.

Dude, it is a FATTY BIRD, I repeat FATTY as in several cups of fat distilled out of a 6 pound bird ....... *CUPS* of fat, not tablespoons.

But benefit of the vinegar is that it will allow me to get a nice seasoning on and in the bird, of the spices and herbs I feel will best suit where I want to go.

Then what you are doing is marinading or macerating not brining. Brining is for dry meats with inadequate fat so the meat doesn't dry out.

I was about to say, "But it's a frozen duck, there won't be any feathers on it!" when I realized that, in this very thread, I pointed out that I have never actually cooked a whole bird myself. So there very well may be, and I shall take your sage advice.

Unless it is hand plucked, it will have little feather stubs and missed 'hairs' - automatic pluckers are not totally efficient about plucking. Thems the breaks. It is sort of like using needlenose pliers to remove stray bones in fish fillets. They aren't supposed to be there, but there may be strays

I appreciate the suggestion, but I am not going for roasted duck, but for barbecue duck, in other words, low and slow. It's gonna be at 200 or so for 3+ hours. That is the way I should be able to get that texture and consistency I'm after.
Better than bacon fat? Yes, I think I shall keep that in reserve for future use! Can I freeze it?
Still not sure what I'm going to do with the skin. A lot depends on how my seasoned marinade affects the skin. It's going to be one of those game time decisions, as it were.

Thanks for all the ducky advice!

LOL, believe me it will not be rare, it will be cooked through and tender and ready to pull.

And yes IMHO duck and goose fat is worlds better for cooking than bacon fat. Bacon fat can end up oversalting flavorwise. The smokey can overwhelm delicate flavors. Duck and goose add richness. It will freeze nicely. You can freeze it in little blobs, in an icecube tray or in larger tubs if you get lots of fat.

And if you have no plans for the skin, you can snack on it =)