Research query help?

[SongsOfDragons]

It is okay to post medical queries for story research purposes here, isn't it? I read the guidelines and it doesn't say anything about research for theoretical situations...

If it is okay and I''m not going to get salmon-slapped, here goes...

I'm planning a small oneshot to explore some of my bad guys' backstories. The setting is somewhat Medieval/Renaissance kind, though study of medicine is pretty good and they have figured out stuff like why willow and poppy and yarrow works kind of well and all that, as well as figuring the concept of temperature measuring and maybe the beginnings of instruments like stethescopes.

Man falls from his horse while crossing a marsh (technically it's a fen, but it's called the Blue Marshes), breaks his leg, and after several days of rather nasty suffering he dies. I've been trying to think of how and why? I'm thinking perhaps a nasty infection carries him off, gives him blood poisoning or something? What could happen and how long might it take?

(If this works I might annoy people with more research queries I don't have the skills to understand well enough...I really don't want to get things wrong, one of my worst dreads is ending up on TV Tropes' 'Did Not Do The Research' page... Maybe we could set up a story research thread or something... :P)

[Kittish]

A marsh, or fen, is a lovely place to find all sorts of parasites, both micro- and macroscopic. When your rider broke his leg, was it a simple fracture or compound? Was there a break in the skin where something might have entered? If the answer to the second question is yes, there are all sorts of possibilities for different kinds of worms, leeches, or even fish to enter and wreak havoc along with the expected microbial suspects.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

People used to die all the time from what you just described, usually from infection.

[jedimaster91]

Or he could have thrown a clot. Although a clot tends to end things quickly. Infection or parasites are probably your more likely candidates. As far as how fast, it really depends on a number of factors. General health before the incident, if he went into shock, what kind of infection/parasite he picked up, if his companions may have inadvertently given him a treatment that made him worse, etc. From my observations in watching House ( ), fungal infections seem to spread quickest. And I would imagine a wet, marshy area would have some nasty fungi lurking about.

[csquared]

Something else to consider... The rule of thumb is that you can survive three days without water, three weeks without food. Even without a skin puncture, whatever is in the swamp water will get inside him. It may take a couple of days to do him in, and it would not be pleasant.

Any venomous critters in the swamp?

The Wife recommends Cause of Death by Keith D. Wilson, MD

[Mikkel]

Gangrene?
Certainly nasty enough and if a bandage cuts off blood supply to the leg, it could easily happen. A guy I knew got gangrene in a broken arm as a child. It hurt, naturally, but he expected it to hurt. It was only after he got desperately ill that anyone thought to open the plaster bandage. He survived, but his arm didn't.

[SongsOfDragons]

Thanks for the suggestions thus far, guys. I know I could count on you ^^

The break could have been quite nasty if it went in at a bad angle and there was a rock just beneath the ground/water. I’m thinking there may have been a wound, and considering a bacterial infection.
Umm *reads more questions and ‘depends-on’* he was probably in okay health, he was the leader of an army and well-connected.
Shock…if we’re talking about blood loss, maybe a little from any wound that happened but not like pints…
Csquared, ow ow ow ow. *criiinge* reminds me of reading about that Amazonian fish, the candiru…I think I’d rather stick to microbial, because he’s initially raging at being laid low and is thinking it’s nothing…
Gangrene, maybe…but I was more thinking septicaemia, heavy fever and delirium and whatnot, and I don’t know if it can work alongside or anything as I don’t know how it fits in.

[BlaqueKatt]

Quoth SongsOfDragons

The break could have been quite nasty if it went in at a bad angle and there was a rock just beneath the ground/water. I’m thinking there may have been a wound, and considering a bacterial infection.

two common nasty bacteria in marshes

Bacillus cereus-which can cause septic meningitis and erythrocyte lysis(rupture of red blood cells), and if it gets into even a tiny scratch in your eye, it will blind you in 4 hours or so, .

and

Clostridium tetani

simple tetanus, a very common form of death before the vaccine-horrifically painful...


so if you really wanted to be evil....when he falls and breaks his leg, he can also scratch his eye, go blind(maybe while sleeping?) and then succumb to bacterial meningitis or tetanus....or both for a truly horrific death

[Sapphire Silk]

Quoth SongsOfDragons

Man falls from his horse while crossing a marsh (technically it's a fen, but it's called the Blue Marshes), breaks his leg, and after several days of rather nasty suffering he dies. I've been trying to think of how and why? I'm thinking perhaps a nasty infection carries him off, gives him blood poisoning or something? What could happen and how long might it take?

Infection could be the cause of death, especially if it is an open fracture (bones poking through the skin). With no antibiotics, severe infection turns into sepsis (blood poisoning) and death occurs in a couple of days. Cauterizing such a wound might help . . . if the burn itself doesn't get infected. Alcohol was the only antiseptic available. Problem was, in the time period you describe people thought infection was the result of an imbalance of "humours". Bleeding was often the treatment.

If some attempt at treatment occurs (poltices, etc) the victim might last a week or more. General health and nutrition also affect how long it takes you to die: the better physical condition you are in, the longer it takes. Nasty.

Another possible cause of death is a fat embolism from a femur fracture (the femur is the large bone in the thigh); a common complication of femur fracture. The fat travels to the lungs, the person has trouble breathing and death occurs within hours.

[Phantasmagoria]

As a historian I can't tell you anything medical which could help, but I do know that in the medieval period many deaths would be caused by the physicians. I'm not sure whether your character gets help or dies alone in the marsh, so this might be no help whatsoever, but treatments like bleeding and blistering were common and would often greatly increase suffering whilst decreasing chance of survival. Then there were unwashed hands and instruments, which could spread infection between patients.

If you do want to research medieval medicine I would recommend a look at the Physiologus, Byrhtferth's Computus diagram, and John Trevisa's translation of Bartholomaeus Anglicus. It might give you some ideas of the kinds of beliefs people had about how the body and the natural world worked, and these are beliefs which would have been held by common people, passed down through oral tradition, until after the Renaissance. Plus they're REALLY interesting! (although that might just be me...)