What part of "they clash" don't you understand??

[sld72382]

I didn't post this because I had things going on at the time and simply forgot.

Anyway, a woman called in for help with her wireless network dropping constantly. We knew it had to be an issue with the wireless as her wired PC worked great.

So I did all the normal troubleshooting, and nothing worked. Until a lightbulb went on. I asked her to look for the model number of her cordless phones. I looked them up, and sure enough they were the type that ran on the same frequency spectrum as the modem.

I called her on her cell, had her power down the base and the extentions and - presto! - functioning wireless. She asked me what can she do to prevent this from happening.

I told her she needs to replace her cordless phones with a newer model that doesn't run in the same frequency as the modem. She had me on speakerphone when I said that. I wish she didn't, as her husband comes running into the room and became, well, an SC.

Husband: Why should I spend money to buy new phones just to get your piece of junk modem to work? Isn't there something else you can do?

Me: I have already tried. Your phones and modem operate in the same frequency, so they are going to clash. Once you get new phones you'll be fine.

Husband: Don't you have any modems that are better than this?

Me: This is the only modem we have at the moment.

Husband: Why don't I just disable the wireless in your modem and use my own! Will wireless-N work?

Me: Wireless-N operates in the same frequency as this modem does, so there is a good chance that your phones will clash with it as well.

Husband: What about that the wireless-AC* stuff I've been hearing about?

Me: The AC standard does operate at a different frequency then G or N but it's so new that unless your laptop and tablet have wireless AC capability, then it's just going to do the same thing as your present modem.

Husband: How so?

Me: When a wireless AC router detects a device that doesn't have wireless AC, it switches back to either G or N, which operates at a frequency that may clash with your phones.

Husband: So what you're telling me is that no matter how I slice it I'm going to have to replace cordless phones that have been functioning fine for the last 7-8 years?

Me: Based on what I have seen, yes.

Husband: I'm not happy. Is there like a retention department that I can speak to?

Me: Right now they are closed but you can speak to them in the morning when they open.

Husband: I'll do that, thanks.

*click.*

I believe the SC had a separate modem and router but requested an all-in-one unit from us when they finally bit the dust. Don't know if his previous device filtered out interference better than this one (Which could explain his objections) or if he just tolerated the constant drops on the wireless side.

*The wireless AC I'm talking about is the new 802.11ac standard. Awesome if you have a device that works on it, otherwise it's a waste of money.

[sms001]

Bummer!

Kudos on the spectrum overlap flash. Many would have missed it.

I'm kinda curious as to what retention will try. Laws of physics are pretty hard to get around, no matter how much a SC whinges.

[Chromatix]

FWIW, 802.11n is also dual-band (2.4GHz, known as b/g compatible, or 5GHz, known as a-compatible), but only one at a time, and many devices only support the 2.4GHz band.

I have a dual-band base station and at least one dual-band device, but I also have several devices that are *not* dual-band, either because they are old, or because the manufacturer cheaped out. A solution which I occasionally consider is to set up my old 802.11b base station for the older/cheaper devices, and set the newer base station to the 5GHz band for the newer/better ones.

[gremcint]

maybe his old router was a G router.

[sld72382]

Well, our modems are also G routers as well.

Bummer!

Kudos on the spectrum overlap flash. Many would have missed it.

I'm kinda curious as to what retention will try. Laws of physics are pretty hard to get around, no matter how much a SC whinges.

Knowing retention, they'll probably call us, ask what can be done to fix the issue, and when we tell them he just needs to quit being a cheapskate (Not outright, but indirectly) and buy new cordless phones they'll get back with the customer and probably just give him a big enough credit on his bill to offset the cost of having to buy new phones. Happens just about every time.

[ender]

FWIW, 802.11n is also dual-band (2.4GHz, known as b/g compatible, or 5GHz, known as a-compatible), but only one at a time, and many devices only support the 2.4GHz band.

Depends on device - many higher-priced ones have two radios, and can work on both bands at the same time (and they will sometimes let you configure each radio separately).

[Chanlin]

... they'll get back with the customer and probably just give him a big enough credit on his bill to offset the cost of having to buy new phones. Happens just about every time.

As much as I hate enabling an SC this just makes good business sense. Especially if the credit amounts to something like $30. They'll make that back in a month or two at the most if he sticks around as a customer.

[Silent-Hunter]

I thought all WiFi devices had frequency hopping?

[lordlundar]

Only within their allowable range. If they're restricted to 2.4 GHz whether a hardware limitation in of itself or the network only connects at that range they're not going to be able to jump to 5 GHz and still have it work.

An old example was the a,b,g series in 802.11.

802.11a was fast but very short range and suffered interference issues.

802.11b was more reliable and better range but was much slower.

802.11g had the reliability of b and higher speeds but still slower than a.

the 802.11b and 802.11g were compatible but would only function at the slowest speed. So if you had a network totally comprised of 802.11g and if a device rated 802.11b only was introduced, then the network could only communicate with that device at the slower speed. If it was a nexus point device (hub, switch or router) then the network would be an 802.11b network. To add, neither type was even compatible with 802.11a.

[Silent-Hunter]

Then what was that invention of Hedy Lamaar's that is supposedly part of WiFi? I thought that was supposed to prevent interference from happening. Heck, I didn't know WiFi could be interfered with.

[Chromatix]

802.11b/g occupies an extremely crowded segment of the 2.4 GHz band which is allocated for unlicensed use. It shares the same set of frequencies as garage door openers, cordless phones (as opposed to mobiles), wireless doorbells and even microwave ovens. Not to mention other wifi networks nearby.

In other words, it needs pretty hefty resistance to interference in order to function at all.

[wolfie]

Heck, I didn't know WiFi could be interfered with.

Anything that uses radio communication can be interfered with if the jamming signal is powerful enough. As someone else said, WiFi works on a crowded band that also has some VERY powerful RF generators (1000 watt microwave ovens are common). The FCC regulations that most consumer gadgets are covered under basically say this about RF interference: The gizmo you just bought isn't allowed to create interference that affects anything else, but if something else throws interference that screws it up, tough shit.

[lordlundar]

Then what was that invention of Hedy Lamaar's that is supposedly part of WiFi? I thought that was supposed to prevent interference from happening. Heck, I didn't know WiFi could be interfered with.

Hedy Lamarr's invention is, for lack of a better term, the channels in radio communications. It's a very small change in frequency (a few dozen hertz) but still within the same general frequency. IEEE 802.11 and all it's protocols do use it to limit interference, but as stated before the 2.4 GHz band is extremely crowded so it might not always be viable. It's not a design for complete band hopping though. The devices out that can do it (aka the stuff that's designed with b/g/n design) have two sets of components in them that it switches between the 2.4 for b/g and 5 for the n.

[Silent-Hunter]

Oh I see. Well, that sucks.

[Dreamstalker]

The FCC regulations that most consumer gadgets are covered under basically say this about RF interference: The gizmo you just bought isn't allowed to create interference that affects anything else, but if something else throws interference that screws it up, tough shit.

...am I the only one confused by this? Say everything in your house is covered by that warning. So nothing is 'allowed' to create interference.....technically, there should then be none.

Our modem and router are right next to the cordless phone base station; apparently the Crapcast modem we have has to be put as close to the computer as possible. That's probably why every so often the wireless printer throws a fit and has to be hard-reset (it has a static IP which used to fix the issue, but recently it's been acting up again). Mom has her laptop about a foot away from the microwave ...no, that can't be why it keeps dropping the wifi