Advice for dealing with neighbor-roomie.

[Der Cute]

I live in a building; we each have our own rooms. There are 8 people in this building, imagine a halfway house or such. There is no on-site manager. We all share a kitchen. This is a kitchen with a stove (no oven), 2 microwaves, sink, etc. Basic kitchen. 6 out of 8 people here are medium to low-functioning in life skills/comprehension etc. (this is important). Everybody here DOES have a disability.

Ok.
as I said before, there are 2 microwaves. One is an old 70's /80's one, it's HUGE. Brown color, black door, can fit 2 cats in it, maybe 3. That's describing one of them. That sits on the counter next to the stove.
There is another microwave. It is smaller, white, you cook a TV dinner in it but nothing else.

Countertop space is at a premium here. And I have NEVER seen anyone use the large microwave.
So I put a paper on it asking - Vote - Keep or Toss.
It was pulled the same day by a person who lives here (there is a recycle bin in the kitchen, the paper was not there, 6 out of 8 people here ARE naive, not scheming enough to keep the paper)

Again, I put up a paper to vote.
It was tossed.

Third time, the neighbor whom I'd suspected - knocked on my door and said, "Just because you live here doesn't mean you can change anything. Just because you can't use that thing for figure it out doesn't mean you can move that. I use it so leave it alone don't change things you can't change things."
This neighbor has bullied me (IMO) before about changing things in the kitchen. Such as tilting the drain rack a hair bit so it empties faster (I did that, it was reversed later). I meant no problem, it was to make it drain faster!
Or me putting out a batch of cookies out on the counter top to share with everyone else. These got put into the fridge.

Now- a few questions.
1. Am I considered to be passive-aggressive to post a note on the microwave? (my reasoning here is that people here keep odd hours. Easy to vote, don't need to knock on doors, asking, -one person here is volatile)

2. I tried to explain what my thought was, but as I tried, she kept talking over me and getting louder and louder. Is there a way to communicate with someone who does that? This frustrates me.

3. I think this person wants the countertop to have a straight line of sight. The pattern so far physically is to have any thing stationary close against the wall, at least 2/3 of it blank. From kitchen edge towards the back wall, 2/3 open.

4. What would define her actions, of taking down the paper (twice) and then telling me to not do it? (loudly)

5. In the past I had a wishlist out (our building..long story..director mentioned she had a wishlist for the spring. I created one for the tenants, 4 blank pages, everyone wrote on it) and thought, ok, that's stayed there, could the page work?

I'm very frustrated. And I think it's stupid to have to call a house manager to just ask about removing an appliance I don't see being used, instead of asking the tenants. I don't want to yell. But how can I stand up for myself and be assertive in a situation where someone's doing that?

I don't get this one. I really don't. Help?

Another thought: I have only seen 3 out of 8 people use the countertop space for chopping/cooking/prepwork. Everyone uses a microwave, consistently.

[Kittish]

Just some thoughts here, don't know how helpful they'll be.

My guess would be that the other person has huge issues with anything being changed in what they consider to be 'their' territory. This could be due to any number of reasons. (This applies to point 4 as well as the basic issue of the housemate getting upset with any slightest change you've tried to make in the kitchen and being very aggressive toward you about it.)

No, I would not consider posting a note in a place where it's difficult or impossible to contact each resident face to face to be passive aggresive. However, before you try to make a decision to change major appliances, you really should check with the house manager and make sure that any such change is acceptable provided the residents agree to it.

Also, your house manager might have some ideas or insights to dealing with your one housemate.

If all else fails, try writing your housemate a letter explaining your reasoning for wanting to remove the big microwave. It's kind of hard to talk over a written letter. You can stop reading it, but you can't outshout it.

Edited to improve clarity.

[spark]

Well, from my point of view reading this, I see somebody who feels things would be "right" and most efficient with the microwave gone, and somebody else who feels things are "right" and more efficient with it there for their use. Yes a vote might resolve this, but I don't get the impression that the other people there actually care very much, so it's really just a matter of opinions between the two of you.

If I were in your place I would probably drop it. I know at this point it feels like a really big deal, because you have committed yourself to improving things, and have been thwarted. It's turned it into a grand quest! I know how that goes! But to me, at least, peace and getting along are far more important things than having a couple of square feet of extra counter space. Is pitting yourself against your roommie actually worth it?

I do second that if it *really* does seem to be worth it to you contacting the house manager is probably the way to go. The microwave doesn't belong to you, after all, so you should have permission, and not just from your roommates, before actually getting rid of it.

[Der Cute]

Spark, thank you for the input.
I think you're right on that I'm efficiency and she's of the "its her kitchen".
It seems like she's the only one that uses the microwave, and it's a pain in the ass to do prepwork away from the stove. If she still uses it, ok..but if it's a total 0, why not move it????

You bring up very good thoughts for me.

But - only one question has been answered - one person so far does not think it's PA to have a house vote. what about the other questions?

[Seshat]

2. I tried to explain what my thought was, but as I tried, she kept talking over me and getting louder and louder. Is there a way to communicate with someone who does that? This frustrates me.

There are communication techniques which can work on people who behave that way. However, there is no communication technique to force someone to actually listen to you. If she's determined not to listen, then she won't.

One method that often works on these people is to actually stop talking. Just stop. Listen to them, in silence, and when they fall silent, 'reflect' their points back to them.
Often these people react this way because they feel like 'noone ever hears them'. Your job is to prove that you do.
Once you have listened, and proven it, ask if they're ready to hear your side.

If they start talking over you again, go silent again.

Repeat ad nauseum. It takes a lot of patience, but it sometimes works.


If this doesn't work, discuss the situation with any communications/assertiveness counsellor.

3. I think this person wants the countertop to have a straight line of sight. The pattern so far physically is to have any thing stationary close against the wall, at least 2/3 of it blank. From kitchen edge towards the back wall, 2/3 open.

4. What would define her actions, of taking down the paper (twice) and then telling me to not do it? (loudly)

Point 3: You'd know better than we would.

Point 4: Sorry, I don't know. I failed telepathy in high school.

5. In the past I had a wishlist out (our building..long story..director mentioned she had a wishlist for the spring. I created one for the tenants, 4 blank pages, everyone wrote on it) and thought, ok, that's stayed there, could the page work?

I don't understand what this point is asking. I'm sorry.

And I think it's stupid to have to call a house manager to just ask about removing an appliance I don't see being used, instead of asking the tenants.

Actually, the house manager would be the appropriate person to discuss it with. They're the one responsible for the appliances in the house, yes?

But how can I stand up for myself and be assertive in a situation where someone's doing that?

Basic assertiveness training only really covers assertion with easy people. You have a difficult person here. Do you have a counsellor, mediator, or other trained specialist you can discuss the situation with?

If not, then try what I suggested above, and let us know how it went. Maybe someone else will have another idea.

[Der Cute]

If they start talking over you again, go silent again.
Repeat ad nauseum. It takes a lot of patience, but it sometimes works.
If this doesn't work, discuss the situation with any communications/assertiveness counsellor.

Trust me, I've tried that. If I stop, let her talk, I start up, she talks over me. Once I stop, I can try to start up again if there's a dip but she runs roughshod. I cannot get my say so out at all, it's like anytime I try to speak she's just making noise to not hear me, and argue and be loud.

Point 3: You'd know better than we would.

True

Point 4: Sorry, I don't know. I failed telepathy in high school.

.am I unclear here., I dunno. Would her actions be called hostile, aggressive, smiley, passive -aggressive...with what I described?

Actually, the house manager would be the appropriate person to discuss it with. They're the one responsible for the appliances in the house, yes?

I'm sure they are responsible - I thought it would be dumb to contact the mgr to ask about a microwave, as he wouldn't know what people here do with it; I figured getting a vote would work better, then present that to him.

Basic assertiveness training only really covers assertion with easy people. You have a difficult person here. Do you have a counsellor, mediator, or other trained specialist you can discuss the situation with?

Yes I do, can, and will bring it up soon. But I get frustrated here, and don't have ..enough...access? to the counseling, so I thought I could get some help here. It's going to be at least another week before I can bring this up to my counselor and dealing with THIS person in here is not easy.

If not, then try what I suggested above, and let us know how it went. Maybe someone else will have another idea.

[Seshat]

Trust me, I've tried that. If I stop, let her talk, I start up, she talks over me. Once I stop, I can try to start up again if there's a dip but she runs roughshod. I cannot get my say so out at all, it's like anytime I try to speak she's just making noise to not hear me, and argue and be loud.

.am I unclear here., I dunno. Would her actions be called hostile, aggressive, smiley, passive -aggressive...with what I described?

My guess - and it's only a guess - is that she doesn't want change; or that she doesn't want this to change. By shutting down any dialogue or discussion on the topic, she believes she can prevent the change.

You have options here.
You can attempt to gain your goal - extra kitchen workspace - by some other means. (Maybe there's a dining room table that can double as workspace? Maybe you can get a 'butcher's block' trolley with locking wheels?)
You can bypass her and go to someone else.
You can outright call her on her behaviour. 'Are you ignoring me?'

Or maybe someone will have better ideas. Cause I don't handle those people well myself.