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  • Have any of you tried a "ketogenic" diet?

    I have a friend who is trying to convince me to try it.

    It's basically a high fat, low carb diet.

    Have any of you heard of/tried this? Does it work?

    My friend says it works for him. He said when he got on it, he's been losing 10 pounds or so per month, and his cholesterol has actually gone down (his "good" cholesterol is up, but his "bad" cholesterol is down).

    I'm seriously considering asking my doctor about it, to see. Because I want to keep working out (and maybe work in some weight training), and I need to lose about 20 or 30 pounds of fat myself.
    Skilled programmers aren't cheap. Cheap programmers aren't skilled.

  • #2
    Ketogenic has a few potential issues when starting up. Normally, we burn sugars from carbohydrates to get the energy for our daily life. Ketogenic diets cut the carb intake to a minimum, forcing the body to resort to other means of getting fuel. Ketones, from fats, are a viable fuel, but they're not as fast or flexible as sugars, so there can be issues of being tired and running out of energy.
    The body tends to switch over to ketone-based fuel slowly, which can make for a long, low-energy, period of no-fun. Switching back to carb-sugar is simple as resuming normal carb intakes, as we are designed to operate that way.

    It's not necessarily a bad way to go, but DO get your research done beforehand. Also, if you are diabetic, going this route, things can get really strange and dangerous without warning. Again, RESEARCH (and maybe talk to the doc) BEFORE TRYING.

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    • #3
      I've been on a "carnivore" version of a keto diet for about two months now (because, let's face it, I refuse to eat most veggies; most green things actually nauseate me just from the smell) -- The general guidelines are: High protein, "make sure to include some fat," minimize starches (though starches with protein such as potatoes or rice with beans are ok within reason) -- Basically 90% meats (of any kind, preferably 15% fat or more) and animal-derived products such as eggs and cheese, avoiding processed sugar in general where possible, regardless of source, though fruits are considered a better "other 10% food" than juices. Exceptions OK for fruits/veg that supply specific nutrients you need (e.g. in my case: bananas for extra potassium). Note that this means actual/real meat or derived protein, not protein powders. Also acceptable are variant foods that would otherwise be starchy (e.g. a new restaurant not far away serves "keto bread" which is Parmesan-based).

      It's worked so far for me, I've lost some weight, but not a vast amount - just enough to be noticeable, and I'm told simply "look healthier" by some others. I have also found that I feel better most of the time, though the first month in particular, my body didn't always like it, so I had to go to the can more often, but that cleared up after a few weeks.


      That being said, yes, absolutely speak with your doctor. ALL diets have their upsides and downsides, so your doc would be best-qualified to help you determine if keto or a variant of it would be advisable for you.


      PS (and this is for everyone) -- If you would like us to move your thread, just Report your own post You can safely do so, and it's much faster than leaving a note in-thread.
      Last edited by EricKei; 09-14-2018, 02:29 AM.
      "For a musician, the SNES sound engine is like using Crayola Crayons. Nobuo Uematsu used Crayola Crayons to paint the Sistine Chapel." - Jeremy Jahns (re: "Dancing Mad")
      "The difference between an amateur and a master is that the master has failed way more times." - JoCat
      "Thinking is difficult, therefore let the herd pronounce judgment!" ~ Carl Jung
      "There's burning bridges, and then there's the lake just to fill it with gasoline." - Wiccy, reddit
      "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
      "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)
      Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
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      • #4
        I was going to, so I did what everyone tells you to do and talked to my doctor first.

        I got quite a lecture on diabetes and ketogenesis. Mostly along the lines of, "Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!"


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        • #5
          Research the old Atkins diet ... just repackage it a bit, and voila - keto diet. As a diabetic I can suggest keeping a bottle of the old school keto/glucose dipsticks and track your ketones and glucose levels if your kidney health is important to you...and yes as a diabetic I did Atkins for over a year, with minimal loss [I think it was 6 pounds after the first flush of 15 pounds of water] and while I felt ok, my a1c was ok, by bloodwork was fine overall the lack of magical weight loss was there, for what it is worth to you.
          EVE Online: 99% of the time you sit around waiting for something to happen, but that 1% of action is what hooks people like crack, you don't get interviewed by the BBC for a WoW raid.

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          • #6
            I'm technically pre-diabetic (no insulin, mainly met pills, and I consider a 200 glucose reading to be alarmingly high) and I discussed it with my diabetes-specialist/main doc a while back. He advised me to be cautious, and to revert to "normal" eating if I had unusual fluctuations in my readings or any severe side effects. Fingers crossed -- nothing notable so far, though I've had minor reactions to the new meds he put me on (which he was planning to give me anyway -- he 86'd Amaryl and added exenatide (Bydureon) & dapagliflozin (Farxiga)). YMMV.
            "For a musician, the SNES sound engine is like using Crayola Crayons. Nobuo Uematsu used Crayola Crayons to paint the Sistine Chapel." - Jeremy Jahns (re: "Dancing Mad")
            "The difference between an amateur and a master is that the master has failed way more times." - JoCat
            "Thinking is difficult, therefore let the herd pronounce judgment!" ~ Carl Jung
            "There's burning bridges, and then there's the lake just to fill it with gasoline." - Wiccy, reddit
            "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
            "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)
            Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
            "Our psychic powers only work if the customer has a mind to read." - me

            Comment


            • #7
              Quoth EricKei View Post
              I'm technically pre-diabetic (no insulin, mainly met pills, and I consider a 200 glucose reading to be alarmingly high) and I discussed it with my diabetes-specialist/main doc a while back. He advised me to be cautious, and to revert to "normal" eating if I had unusual fluctuations in my readings or any severe side effects. Fingers crossed -- nothing notable so far, though I've had minor reactions to the new meds he put me on (which he was planning to give me anyway -- he 86'd Amaryl and added exenatide (Bydureon) & dapagliflozin (Farxiga)). YMMV.
              See if your insurance will pay for the new freestyle libra, I adore mine. The sensor jams into the back of either arm and functions for 10 days ... I haven't done a finger stick in 3 weeks and after it initializes [takes 12 hours, I slam the replacement in at 6 pm so it is ready the next morning when Iget up and start my day] and I can check for a reading every 15 minutes all day every day the sensor is working ... and it logs and graphs the insulin, and there is a function where you can note what you ate and what you dosed. I think there is a function where your doc can use a computer app to download your libre tracking to his computer. If you have cigna, the little reader and the first sensor cost a 105 copay, and the sensor copay is 35 per sensor [they are like 150 cash no insurance]

              I am on metformin, invokana and lantus, though I have to adjust my lantus on the fly because of the chemo, so the libre is definitely a finger saver! My highs tend to max out at 125-140 on really carby days, and my lows have been hitting the 70s if I forget my evening snack [nap attacks suck, so I keep a small apple sauce cup by the bed and when I wake up at some random hour of the night I check the libre and snack if needed.]
              EVE Online: 99% of the time you sit around waiting for something to happen, but that 1% of action is what hooks people like crack, you don't get interviewed by the BBC for a WoW raid.

              Comment


              • #8
                Can't afford insurance and, because my state is screwy, I've never qualified for discounts/credits/free insurance (Income is quite low...I've tried every year). I qualify for Medicaid based on income, but I can't get it because my county's office just has to be different (PM me for details if interested, as it gets Fratchy). Disability, which I had to start over from scratch, is still awaiting the first in-person hearing after the standard auto-denial at the start. Looking at this time next year for that.


                The thought is appreciated, though. Been in this situation for 6 years and this is the first doc to even suggest looking into programs from pharma companies that can get me certain meds either free or dirt cheap. He even mailed me the application forms I need to sign; he already filled out his part of them. I think I'm gonna stick with this doc

                The device does sound interesting, tho I'm on met, the two new alphabet soup meds, and gapabentin; was on Amaryl (glimepiride) -- stopped because the doc (diabetic specialist) said that newer studies strongly suggest it doesn't actually WORK and may actually be counterproductive -- other meds are for hypothyroidism and HBP. Still adjusting to the new ones, as I've only had 2 doses of the new weekly one (ByD), so not really sure how it affects me yet. I'm keeping a detailed food/glucose log as I go.
                Last edited by EricKei; 09-14-2018, 09:00 PM.
                "For a musician, the SNES sound engine is like using Crayola Crayons. Nobuo Uematsu used Crayola Crayons to paint the Sistine Chapel." - Jeremy Jahns (re: "Dancing Mad")
                "The difference between an amateur and a master is that the master has failed way more times." - JoCat
                "Thinking is difficult, therefore let the herd pronounce judgment!" ~ Carl Jung
                "There's burning bridges, and then there's the lake just to fill it with gasoline." - Wiccy, reddit
                "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
                "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)
                Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
                "Our psychic powers only work if the customer has a mind to read." - me

                Comment


                • #9
                  I did it in the 90s and lost 3 clothing sizes. I had a lot of energy for someone who was chronically sleep deprived, too. Now I'm on a moderate carb plan, trying to keep it under 130 grams a day. I'm currently having IBS-like symptoms so I'm trying to figure out what will work for me. (I'm not sure if the switch back to meat is causing the problem or that I'm still having too many carbs.) One thing I know: limiting my starches, avoiding sugar, and walking a lot will cause me to lose lbs. I don't walk as much as I did in the 90s and I'm trying to fix that.
                  "Is it hot in here to you? It's very warm, isn't it?"--Nero, probably

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                  • #10
                    Take a look look at www.dietdoctor.com

                    While he clearly has a bias toward this sort of diet, he does have links to many case studies, research, etc.
                    There's no such thing as a stupid question... just stupid people.

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                    • #11
                      Oh, I'd like to add that it can be done vegetarian, if anyone is one. I did it. It's easier with meat, though. I found some rustic low carb (4 grams per slice) whole wheat bread tonight but I didn't pick it up because I don't need any. I want to try it. It's one of those oval free-form no pan loaves. It's a bit pricey at just over $4.00. I found lowish carb bagels and I really like those. The cinnamon ones taste sweet even though they have no sweetener whatsoever. I also regularly pick up low carb tortillas at 6 grams per. You don't have to be deprived if you can find these products.
                      "Is it hot in here to you? It's very warm, isn't it?"--Nero, probably

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I cannot do that diet because I HAVE to have bread and greens. Seriously the one time I tried it I would to wake up in the middle of the night to go to the store and buy fresh celery because i just have to have it.

                        OTOH, my sweetie was told by his doctor that he was officially obese and the only thing that would help with his breathing and joint issues was to lose about a 100 pounds. He's back on low carb and walks every day. He has lost 10 pounds in the last month, can breath better and can walk farther every day.

                        What works for some people doesn't work for others. My diet is mostly vegan, foofy coffee, water and chocolate. Likely very unhealthy, but it works for me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quoth AccountingDrone View Post
                          See if your insurance will pay for the new freestyle libra, I adore mine. The sensor jams into the back of either arm and functions for 10 days ... I haven't done a finger stick in 3 weeks and after it initializes [takes 12 hours, I slam the replacement in at 6 pm so it is ready the next morning when Iget up and start my day] and I can check for a reading every 15 minutes all day every day the sensor is working ... and it logs and graphs the insulin, and there is a function where you can note what you ate and what you dosed. I think there is a function where your doc can use a computer app to download your libre tracking to his computer. If you have cigna, the little reader and the first sensor cost a 105 copay, and the sensor copay is 35 per sensor [they are like 150 cash no insurance]

                          I am on metformin, invokana and lantus, though I have to adjust my lantus on the fly because of the chemo, so the libre is definitely a finger saver! My highs tend to max out at 125-140 on really carby days, and my lows have been hitting the 70s if I forget my evening snack [nap attacks suck, so I keep a small apple sauce cup by the bed and when I wake up at some random hour of the night I check the libre and snack if needed.]

                          My Mom is a Type 2 and currently takes metformin, Levimir Flex Pen(30 units twice daily) and recently was taken off the Byetta 10 mg (she came off that one when she was hospitalized back in April with kidney stones/infection/acute renal failure.) She currently has a One Touch Ultra but has already got an appointment set with her primary doctor and she's planning to ask about the Freestyle Libre.


                          We figure she'll have a small copay if any at all after her Medicare and Medicaid both kick in . . . but anyways as far as diets go, Keto wouldn't work for her. Her doctors would probably have a stern lecture with her over that, due to the diabetes.



                          Her idea of a diet is a Dr. Pepper in one hand and a plate of pinto beans and cornbread in the other.


                          She laughs at these "trendy" diets . . . and from every one I've read up on, there's usually something lacking in them that the human body requires, so I'm not a fan of them myself. Knowing me, I'd get tired of it the first day and head over to the Deli Bakery for a pack of cupcakes or pastry fruit bites.
                          Human Resources - the adult version of "I'm telling Mom." - Agent Anthony "Tony" DiNozzo (NCIS)

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                          • #14
                            Quoth DGoddessChardonnay View Post
                            . . . but anyways as far as diets go, Keto wouldn't work for her. Her doctors would probably have a stern lecture with her over that, due to the diabetes.
                            IANAD, but keto would probably work fine for her, as well as keto works; though her meds would need to be adjusted.

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                            • #15
                              CNN has an article about the keto diet.
                              "I don't have to be petty. The Universe does that for me."

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