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In which I am not a Chinese sweatshop worker

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  • #31
    I have a friend that's a kiltmaker. She attended the Keith Kilt School and is the only American to attain the SQA Award in 'Traditional Handcraft and Kilt Making Skills'.

    It takes at least 16 hours and 3000 hand stitches to put together a kilt and that's just the normal pleat. Military box pleat is harder.

    Even so, she only charges $475 for a men's 11oz 8yard kilt.

    Irks me to no end when I hear people complaining about how much her kilts cost, but have no idea about how much work goes into making one. They think it's just a pleated skirt.
    It's floating wicker propelled by fire!

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    • #32
      Quoth Kanalah View Post
      Total for all seven quilts came to: $813.02 And of course she wasn't happy. Said that she'd already spent a ton of money already, and the quilting design wasn't really complicated, you can guess the rest.

      I'm trying to be nice, so I broke down her order for her, told her for me to just prepare and do the quilting, I was looking at 120 hours of work. And that if the $800 was too much, that I could do it for $5 an hour, but I would have to charge shipping. So $600, plus about $50 to ship everything. Also that I would be happy to do payment plans, or spread the work out to try and make it easier on her.

      Oh no, she cursed a blue streak and said she was only looking to pay $250 MAX to have all this work done. So I wished her good luck, and got out my chocolate.
      An alternative approach is the use the one described by Jester in his dealings with those that want discounted beers.

      Kanalah quotes a price of $800 to do the work. The SC disagrees and says shes wants it all for $250. Kanalah then says the best she can do is $950. For each request of a lower price by the SC, Kanalah increases her price a suitable amount. If the SC comes to their senses (if it has any), it is up to Kanalah whether or not she wants to lower her price back down to the original quote.
      "I don't have to be petty. The Universe does that for me."

      Comment


      • #33
        Quoth Pagan View Post
        Even so, she only charges $475 for a men's 11oz 8yard kilt.

        Irks me to no end when I hear people complaining about how much her kilts cost, but have no idea about how much work goes into making one. They think it's just a pleated skirt.
        My sister and I paid almost twice that for my Dad's kilt and didn't bat an eye (though some of the money may have been for the two fittings and accessories).

        OP - has this woman tried to contact you again?

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        • #34
          The Expert Effect

          Quoth Seshat View Post
          It's probably watching people like me who can do things without a pattern that confuses them.

          What they don't know is that I have a pattern in my head: and I only try it with certain types of things. If there's going to be a curve - and definitely if there's going to be a princess seam - there's going to be at least a cursory pattern!

          (If I want a straight, non-bias seam, I cut along the warp or the weft of the fabric. Or a column/row if it's a knit.)
          Ah yes, "The Expert Effect" where-as when someone practises and practises doing something, an outsider in observing them thinks what they are doing is very easy and anyone can do it. Of-course what they don't see it either all the time/expense spent learning the skill-sets needed to do the work and most important of all - all the mental calculations the expert is always doing to insure everything is done in the right order and often the on-going corrections the expert is doing to fix their own mistakes, problems in the materials used and improvements in the basic design the expert sees as they are working on a project.

          And those corrections matter a-lot. No-one is perfect but a SC who can not see their own faults assumes they can do a project without a single error. But if they ever tried to do it in real life, the first problem they run into will doom the project in their hands.
          Last edited by earl colby pottinger; 01-17-2012, 11:51 PM.

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          • #35
            Quoth Seshat View Post
            It's probably watching people like me who can do things without a pattern that confuses them.
            My MIL is one of those " I don't actually need a pattern, just a picture"-my halloween costume took her 3 hours, start to finish. I was looking at around 10-20 minimum with my idea, she looked at what I wanted, said "oh that's easy, you don't have to make individual ventral scales, just pleat it and it'll have depth, and move better". I just handed over the fabric, I still have tons left, I always overestimate, as in I normally end up with triple what I need.....
            Honestly.... the image of that in my head made me go "AWESOME!"..... and then I remembered I am terribly strange.-Red dazes

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            • #36
              Quoth earl colby pottinger View Post
              all the mental calculations the expert is always doing to insure everything is done in the right order and often the on-going corrections the expert is doing to fix their own mistakes, problems in the materials used and improvements in the basic design the expert sees as they are working on a project.
              Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

              Whenever I'm making something, there's constant adjustments going on. Sometimes less than a millimetre. But it matters.
              Seshat's self-help guide:
              1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
              2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
              3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
              4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

              "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

              Comment


              • #37
                Are you hand quilting or ::groan:: machine "quilting"?

                I grew up helping my grandmother and her group and I've seen large quilts go for more than $850 but that is a straight sale. The work for hand stitching a particular pattern I would think varies on the difficulty and number of stitches needed, $850 for all those pieces sounds like a steal for hand, not so much for machine. Is the woman aware of hand/machine stitches?
                GFY

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                • #38
                  The great thing about being self-employed is that you can tell such nitwits to go get bent. What are they going to do...report you to your boss? Good luck with that one, geniuses!

                  Now, working at someone else's bar as I do, I don't have quite that much freedom. But the great thing is, since *I* am not the one setting the prices, I can hold my ground with impunity. Especially when faced with idiocy such as the following, which I deal with FAR more than you would believe.....

                  SC, coming in with all kinds of bluster, bravado, bragadaccio, and any other B word that would be applicable: "GIVE ME A SHOT OF YOUR BEST RUM!"
                  JESTER: "Certainly, sir. Our best rum is Pyrat Cask 1623, a lovely 40 year blend from Anguilla in the British West Indies, and that goes for merely fifty dollars a shot."
                  (Insert sound of grinding gears, jamming brakes, and screeching tires. Perhaps even a loud crash of metal on metal.)
                  SC: "Fifty bucks? Oh, HELL no. I didn't want to pay THAT much!"
                  JESTER: "Understandable, sir. Perhaps I can interest you in one of our finer rums that is more in your budget. How much DID you want to spend today?"
                  SC: "I dunno...I was thinking more like six bucks?"
                  JESTER: "Of course. And how would you like your Bacardi?"

                  JESTER'S BRAIN: "Of course. And how would you like your fucking Bacardi, you cheap asshole?"

                  Quoth Ironclad Alibi View Post
                  An alternative approach is the use the one described by Jester in his dealings with those that want discounted beers.
                  Ah, yes. The "Jester's Patented Anti-Haggling Technique." Thank you for noticing.

                  To wit (for those who may have missed it the first hundred times):

                  JESTER: "Hi! What can I get for you?"
                  SC: "One Corona, please."
                  JESTER: "Here ya go. That will be five dollars, please."
                  SC: "How about I give you two bucks and we call it even?"
                  JESTER: "Six dollars it is."
                  SC: "Six? No! I said TWO!"
                  JESTER: "Seven dollars? Well, if you insist...."
                  SC: "No! How about....four bucks?"
                  JESTER: "Okay, eight dollars it is. But only because I like you!"
                  SC: "NO! HERE'S FIVE DOLLARS! TAKE IT, PLEASE!!!"
                  JESTER: "Thank you. Have a nice day!"

                  Quoth earl colby pottinger View Post
                  Ah yes, "The Expert Effect" where-as when someone practises and practises doing something, an outsider in observing them thinks what they are doing is very easy and anyone can do it.
                  I was guilty of this once. At the tender age of sixteen, I got my first real job (i.e., legal job that wasn't delivering newspapers, which was a good thing, as I was the Worst Paperboy Ever) as a short order cook in a restaurant. After several months, I became very jealous of the servers and how much money they were making compared to me, considering how tough MY job was and how "easy" their job was. So I asked to be cross-trained.

                  And learned just how much their job was anything BUT easy.

                  I have never regretted the switch, as it has financed many of my idiotic life plans, and been very flexible schedule-wise. But I have never, ever, EVER since then assume anyone's job was as easy as it looked from the outside, as I knew from experience that it was not always the case.

                  Quoth BlaqueKatt View Post
                  My MIL is one of those " I don't actually need a pattern, just a picture"-my halloween costume took her 3 hours, start to finish.
                  Now, I don't claim to know dick about sewing. I claim to know LESS than dick about sewing. But even I am slack-jawed in awe at the fact that THAT costume took ONLY three hours to make. My only comment is "How in the flying FUCK is that even humanly possible?!?!?" And the obvious answer comes to me.....

                  Your mother in law is clearly not human.

                  "The Customer Is Always Right...But The Bartender Decides Who Is
                  Still A Customer."

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                  • #39
                    My mom could do it. But my mom is a goddess of the sewing machine...and worked as the seamstress to a mascot maker. So...yeah.

                    And Kanalah, you were already lowballing yourself. Why'd she think it was cool to try to undercut you entirely? *growls* Makes me stabby...
                    My NaNo page

                    My author blog

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                    • #40
                      It's the same with baking/ cooking.
                      A friend of mine bakes and sells biscotti, it's AMAZING. It tastes nothing like the industrial crud you can buy.
                      People try to low ball her all the time at craft fairs because "it's so easy". Well then you go home and do it then or go to the supermarket for some mass produced stuff.

                      Oh wait you like her stuff better.... gee oh and shes sold out now and her custom orders wait list is 6 months. Sucks to be you.
                      I wasnt put on this earth to make you feel like a man ~ Mary Bertone

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                      • #41
                        Honestly I think those artist like Kanalah undervalue the things they make. They are not just quilts (or such) they are masterpieces. No artist who has a painting in a museum could do better. I bought from her, paid a little more then asked, and STILL thought I had paid too little.

                        If I ever strike it mega rich, much of what I get will be handmade. They last generations (typically, if taken care of) and that .. that is priceless.
                        Engaged to the amazing Marmalady. She is my Silver Dragon, shining as bright as the sun. I her Black Dragon (though good honestly), dark as night..fierce and strong.

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                        • #42
                          Quoth Jester View Post
                          Now, I don't claim to know dick about sewing. I claim to know LESS than dick about sewing. But even I am slack-jawed in awe at the fact that THAT costume took ONLY three hours to make. My only comment is "How in the flying FUCK is that even humanly possible?!?!?" And the obvious answer comes to me.....
                          Mmm. I couldn't do that one in three hours: but I could do it in an afternoon, provided the top was a pre-sequinned fabric. (And provided my #&*^## body cooperated.)

                          I wouldn't necessarily have thought of using pleats to produce the ventral scales. Very clever: and yes, a much more natural movement and flow than appliqueing or quilting or otherwise 'marking' ventral scales.
                          Seshat's self-help guide:
                          1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
                          2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
                          3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
                          4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

                          "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            This talk about value vs. price reminds me of an amusing exchange I had with a customer a few months back....

                            CUSTOMER: "Why is the 40 year old rum so expensive?"
                            JESTER: "It might have something to do with the fact that it's a 40 year old rum...."
                            CUSTOMER: "Ooohhhhhh....yeah, good point."

                            Simply replace the rum with the quilts....


                            CUSTOMER: "Why are the hand-made quilts so expensive?"
                            KANALAH: "It might have something to do with the fact that they're hand-made quilts...."

                            Just a thought.....
                            Last edited by Jester; 01-18-2012, 09:43 AM.

                            "The Customer Is Always Right...But The Bartender Decides Who Is
                            Still A Customer."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Quoth auntiem View Post
                              OP - has this woman tried to contact you again?
                              Honestly, I'm not holding my breath. There's a lot of people on Etsy that are just happy to have something to do and not thinking about the time investment involved. I'm sure she found someone to do all the quilts for $250 and my only consolation is that they'll probably turn out looking like

                              Quoth earl colby pottinger View Post
                              Ah yes, "The Expert Effect" where-as when someone practises and practises doing something, an outsider in observing them thinks what they are doing is very easy and anyone can do it.
                              Oh yes. I've been quilting for 10 years and have completed almost 300 quilts. I do so much automatic calculations in my head that it's not even funny. I even know which publisher's books underquote how much fabric to buy and which ones overquote. And how to check thier math. It's true that anyone *can* learn how to quilt, but many don't bother to spend the time and money to learn how to do it *well*.

                              Quoth MiloMorai View Post
                              Are you hand quilting or ::groan:: machine "quilting"?
                              I started out hand quilting, but now I machine quilt. Honestly a lot of quilts these days are quilted with a machine. It takes an entirely different skill set. You do still have to wrangle to quilt through the machine. It's faster, yes and the quilts are more durable. I do still hand quilt if people request it, it just takes a lot longer. I can machine quilt a twin in about 16 hours, hand quilting takes me about 40.

                              And yes they do have completely computer controlled quilting machines, but they run about $25,000 and take up a lot of space. Like an entire garage kind of space.

                              Quoth Jester View Post
                              CUSTOMER: "Why are the hand-made quilts so expensive?"
                              KANALAH: "It might have something to do with the fact that they're hand-made quilts...."
                              Just a thought.....
                              I've tried that, the only real problem is that the mass market ones that sell for $25 at the discount stores and $100 at the department stores are handmade. Handmade by small children in 3rd world countries, but still handmade. Because I am a quilter, I can see the huge stiches, the poor quality fabric, the sub-par craftmanship. Many people just see "WalMart Handmade Quilt - $25" vs "Kanalah's Handmade Quilt $150" and think they are the same thing.

                              I even had an older lady one year at Really Big Craft Show yell at me about "You buy walmart quilts and mark them up and say you made them. You're retarded if you think anyone will fall for that!"

                              Lately I've been saying 'Handmade Locally' since people have started to get into a kerfluffle about shopping locally. Some times I am tempted to tell people that by buying the 3rd world quilts they're supporting child labor, but I'm not that evil yet.
                              https://purplefish-quilting.square.site/

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                              • #45
                                I even had an older lady one year at Really Big Craft Show yell at me about "You buy walmart quilts and mark them up and say you made them. You're retarded if you think anyone will fall for that!"
                                She ... I ... what... No lady, you're retarded if you can't tell the difference between WalMart crap and handmade.

                                I don't quilt, because I can't do anything in a straight line, but I make costumes and hats. It's really kind of funny the things you can do without thinking about after a while. Last Halloween a friend of mine came over to get my help with her costumes. I knocked out my husband's costume in an hour (it was reallllly simple) and she was so frustrated because the complicated pattern she'd chosen wasn't that easy. It wasn't something I'd have picked as an inexperienced sewer.

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