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Vista: And So It Begins

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  • #16
    To tell you the truth, the calls I have gotten for Vista haven't been all that bad. Some were great. The other day, a client's Gateway would not start up. I had him put in the Vista DVD, it detected the errors and BOOM, fixed. If that was XP he would have had to wipe out and start over.

    The biggest issue is not with the O/S, but with people who think that 5-7 year old software is going to work with it. Take Office 2000 and XP, for example. They will install but they have HUGE issues with running on Vista. When I tell them that only 2003 and up work with Vista, they get mad that they have to *gasp* buy new software that works.

    Another issue is that PC manufacturers are putting Vista into cheap PCs with only 512mb of RAM. People buy these PCs and then call us and complain that they put one lousy app in and the PC is running poorly. Unfortunately, it's tough to tell them they need to upgrade the memory to at least 1GB (or exchange it for one that does) without them screaming back at you "then why would they sell a computer that needs to be upgraded out of the box?!"
    Last edited by sld72382; 03-11-2007, 05:03 PM.

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    • #17
      Quoth sld72382 View Post
      Unfortunately, it's tough to tell them they need to upgrade the memory to at least 1GB (or exchange it for one that does) without them screaming back at you "then why would they sell a computer that needs to be upgraded out of the box?!"
      Could it be that they make next to no store profit or commission if applicable on that computer, but they make a crapton on the ram chips you'll be buying within the first month?
      "Who loves not women, wine, and song remains a fool his whole life long" ~Martin Luther
      "Always send a lazy man to the angel of death" ~Martin Luther
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      • #18
        i have a friend of mine that works in an electronics store here in australia.
        they have 2 types of stores (regular stores with limited range, and superstores that stock things like DVD's, Cds and computers) and he works at a superstore. the only computers they are selling at the moment that support vista are... the macs that they sell.
        The mere fact that we have the flamethrower means that someone, somewhere once said "You know, I'd really like to set those customers over there on fire, but don't possess the means to do it"

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        • #19
          Ugh. I work at an ISP, and a big shout out to the brilliant genius in Microsoft who decided to rewrite every. freaking. connection error code to output the same error code. Case in point:

          WinXP

          Error 676 - Line is busy (DSL server screwup)
          Error 678 - Remote Computer did not respond (generic connectivity error)
          Error 691 - Username/Password
          Error 769 - Destination Host Unreachable (Usually NIC-related)

          Win Vista

          Error 815 - Failed to connect. [Line is busy] (DSL server screwup)
          Error 815 - Failed to connect. [Remote Computer did not respond] (generic connectivity error)
          Error 815 - Failed to connect. [Username/Password]
          Error 815 - Failed to connect. [Destination Host Unreachable] (Usually NIC-related)

          Note that the parts in braces/parentheses do NOT show up on screen. Thus problems that occur in Vista all share the same error code. Anyone else see why this could be a small problem?

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          • #20
            Glad I don't have to deal with it...

            except when friends and family go out and get screwed into V!$#@ when they buy a new computer and want me to help set up their system/network...

            I'm so glad I decided to go Linux before V!$#@ came out.

            Random Stranger Looking Over My Shoulder: "So... how much does that GIMP software there cost?"

            Me: It's free.

            RSLOMS: A hundred bucks? Two hundred?

            Me: No, really! It's free!

            RSLOMS: You mean, free, like costs nothing?! *incredulous*

            Me: Yeah, free, as in freedom, and free, as in free beer. Free.

            RSLOMS: *wanders away, still gape-mouthed*

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            • #21
              I wish I could get rid of Windows on my home PC. My hubby has Linux on both his systems; for mine I have a custom built PC that he made and a Mac but I can't switch b/c when we do web design, it helps to be able to test it on IE6. Vista is rearing its ugly head at my day job too. For us, Vista plus IE7 = not working anytime soon and folks don't understand why they need to download Firefox when they just bought a new system. Its all the additional security Microsoft used, it completely farks with our service and I can't even troubleshoot it b/c we're still on XP.
              "If all else fails...blame the dog"

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              • #22
                Quoth sld72382 View Post
                Another issue is that PC manufacturers are putting Vista into cheap PCs with only 512mb of RAM. People buy these PCs and then call us and complain that they put one lousy app in and the PC is running poorly. Unfortunately, it's tough to tell them they need to upgrade the memory to at least 1GB (or exchange it for one that does) without them screaming back at you "then why would they sell a computer that needs to be upgraded out of the box?!"
                Let me guess - Dell, right?

                They were notorious for selling XP machines with only 128MB RAM. Runs fine new out of the box, but install a few apps, and they slowed to a crawl.

                We'd get the result, and tell them they needed to boost their memory at least another 128MB, a little more if they had onboard video with shared memory. And, of course, we'd have to special order more expensive memory specific to the machine, because Dells are too special to run standard memory.

                "But I don't want to spend that, it was working fine before!" was a common response...

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                • #23
                  I have a question. Now I do understand computers, to a point. I'm not technically savvay, even though my hubby thinks so. I am going to buy a computer (hopefully), would it be better to get XP or windows. I am having a hard time finding XP anymore as everything is now Vista. I was XP that is upgradeable to Vista. I don't know the first thing about building my own computer and will have to go with something already put together at the store. I want AMD, but I heard that Intel is coming out with better chips. This computer will do everything, burn CD's/DVD's, run company software, play games, word processing, cook dinner, money management, internet, handle my printer, Adobe, and a slew of other things. I am looking for a 350gb hard drive and a 2gb memory that is expandable to 4gb. I know what I want but I don't know much more than that. I just wat to make the best decision since this will cost me between 15 and $2000.00. The one that I have currently is almost 6 years old and still running strong, and this new one will, hopefully, last as long.
                  Woman are like guns, if you don't treat us right, we'll blow up in your face!

                  Pain is your bodies way of telling you that you're still alive.

                  I am also known as Liquid Skin and Silkekitten.

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                  • #24
                    If you don't have any favorite software or games now, then Vista will be fine for you as long as you have enough memory, processing power, etc...

                    Look at Vista box at any store, see their min requirement. That's a computer that will run Vista and nothing else.

                    Almost everything has issues running on Vista. Unless the software was written for Vista (and not many are), you're going to have problems. That also includes drivers for any devices (printers, web cams, etc....). So unless the company software is written for Vista, find a company that will put XP on the computer.

                    The company I used often still offer XP, you just have to select it. Or take the XP from your old computer and install it on the new computer. Just get all the XP drivers for the components.
                    Last edited by LostMyMind; 03-13-2007, 03:19 PM. Reason: added more info
                    I've lost my mind ages ago. If you find it, please hide it.

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                    • #25
                      You can still buy Windows XP OEM from Newegg for $85.00, so if you find something you like that comes with Vista, you can always wipe it and install XP for not a whole lot more.
                      The only words you said that I understood were "His", "Phone" and "Ya'll". The other 2 paragraphs worth was about as intelligible as a drunken Teletubby barkin' come on's at a Hooter's waitress.

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                      • #26
                        Quoth Crazyredhead View Post
                        I have a question. Now I do understand computers, to a point. I'm not technically savvay, even though my hubby thinks so. I am going to buy a computer (hopefully), would it be better to get XP or windows.
                        XP is a version windows

                        I am having a hard time finding XP anymore as everything is now Vista.
                        Yep, all the major computer makers are distributing their computers with Vista installed. I don't know if anyone is selling them with XP anymore.

                        I was XP that is upgradeable to Vista. I don't know the first thing about building my own computer and will have to go with something already put together at the store.
                        Local shops, rather than the big chain stores, would probably put one together for you.

                        I want AMD, but I heard that Intel is coming out with better chips. This computer will do everything, burn CD's/DVD's, run company software, play games, word processing, cook dinner, money management, internet, handle my printer, Adobe, and a slew of other things.
                        Meh, your CPU won't really matter if it's AMD or Intel, at least with the modern ones there's not too much of a difference, at least if you aren't doing hardcore gaming.

                        I am looking for a 350gb hard drive and a 2gb memory that is expandable to 4gb. I know what I want but I don't know much more than that.
                        Most motherboards come with four slots for RAM, which would give you up to 4GB And as a side note, be careful with your capitalization. In computer terms "b" means bit, while "B" means byte, which is 8 bits. Doesn't really matter in this case, but some people get themselves confused over that when it comes to certain things.

                        I just wat to make the best decision since this will cost me between 15 and $2000.00. The one that I have currently is almost 6 years old and still running strong, and this new one will, hopefully, last as long.
                        *smirks* $2000 is waaaaaaaay more than enough money if you aren't buying a monitor. Really, you can easily put together a high-mid performance system on your own for under $1000. Check local dealers and see if they can help you buy parts or put the parts together for you if you aren't comfortable doing it on your own. But really, modern computers are simple to put together. It's very much "put the thing with three pins on the thing that also has three pins". The only annoying part can be connecting the power and reset switch for the case to the motherboard.

                        If you want to be adventurous and buy all your own parts and have someone put it together for you or even do it yourself, here's the basic steps t buying stuff:

                        1. Figure out what CPU you want. If you decide you want an AMD chip, I suggest getting an AMD X2 flavor. Each CPU has a "socket" type that tells you what type of motherboard it will fit. For AMD chips, I suggest being sure the chip is an AM2 socket type, since that's what all the new AMD chips are designed to fit, so it will make future upgrades/replacments easier. I don't know anything about pentium chips so I can't give advice on those.

                        2. Finding a motherboard
                        --- a.) Get a motherboard that has a PCI express 16x slot. Most modern motherboards have this. It's the replacement for the AGP slot. Your video card is going to fit into this slot and few modern/good video cards use AGP anymore.
                        --- b.) Look at the RAM it is compatible with. DDR2 is the most common RAM type now-adays, so you should get one that supports it.
                        --- c.) Get one that supports SATA 3.0Gb/s (SATA II ?) connections, as the modern hard drives are moving away from IDE and towards SATA. IDE is the type with those big, thick ribbons. SATA 3.0 Gb/s connections looks a bit more like a USB connection (small rectangularish connections about inch by a half inch).
                        --- d.) Get something that is SLI compatible (or the analogous thing for non-Nvidia stuff, I forgot what it's called). You may not want or need it now, but you might in the future.

                        3. Find a video card. Hopefully you chose a motherboard with a PCI express slot. Most modern video cards use this type of slot. Get a card with no less than 128MB memory, prefferably 512, but 256 is just fine. Other than that, check various reviews. You shouldn't need to pay any more than $150 for a video card.

                        4. Find your ram. Make sure the RAM type is compatible with the motherboard. Most of the time the motherboard specs will list exactly what type of RAM it supports so it should be pretty self-apparant. Get RAM in matching pairs. i.e. If you are going to get 1 Gig of RAM, get two 512MB RAM chips rather than a single 1 gig RAM chip. This is so you can utilize dual channel RAM, which is much better performance.

                        5. Find your hard drive. Should be SATA compatible, as many modern drives are. Don't just look at size, look also at things like cache size and average seek times. The larger the cache the better, the lower the seek time the better. If you want to go all out and try for a RAID setup of some sort, you want to buy two of the same drives.

                        6. Find your media devices. DVD Burners are under $50 nowadays. These are pretty simple to get, they all tend to use the same connection type (IDE), so there's only quality and price to consider rather than compatibility.

                        7. Find a case and power supply. You can cheap out on a case, but sometimes a cheap case can cause problems. Look at reviews and see how well things like airflow are in it, and how sturdy it is. Power supply is something you don't want to cheap out on. Look for something that is at least 400 watts and make sure the number of pins for the part that connects to the motherboard is the same as the number of pins that is on the motherboard. Occasionally they don't match up and you have to spend a couple dollars to buy a connector that converts between the two.

                        oh yeah, you'll probably need to buy a floopy drive as well just in case, but thoe only cost like $10. Those are all standard stuff so there's no need to worry about compatibility.

                        If you decide to buy all your own parts, use newegg.com

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                        • #27
                          Just a note:

                          Cyberpower (www.cyberpowerpc.com) lets you pretty much build your computer online, and you can still order it with XP, with a free Vista upgrade. They also take care of any issues in a timely manner (I had a motherboard go bad shortly after recieving my first compy from them, not thier fault, it happens sometimes). I've bought my last two gaming machines from them.

                          EDIT: Oops, had the wrong URL there, I have it fixed now. Sorry to anyone who went to the chat area I had accidentally listed!
                          Last edited by Geek King; 03-15-2007, 12:32 PM.
                          The Rich keep getting richer because they keep doing what it was that made them rich. Ditto the Poor.
                          "Hy kan tell dey is schmot qvestions, dey is makink my head hurt."
                          Hoc spatio locantur.

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                          • #28
                            Quoth Geek King View Post
                            Just a note:

                            Cyberpower (www.cyberpower.com) lets you pretty much build your computer online, and you can still order it with XP
                            Suuurree. Just take away all the fun of putting together an expensive piece of electronics when you have no idea what you are doing

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                            • #29
                              Quoth LostMyMind View Post
                              Vista is going to die a quick painful death.
                              Yeah, we just got a new vista machine here. It's retarded, it's like someone was looking over the Apple Guys shoulder while taking the test for their programming degree.

                              Vista is a huge turn away from Windows.. it's Windows, yet it isn't. Still the same crap underneath, just with more added pictures and confusing menus. Hey let's change all the system control panels just to mess with people. What a retarded move.

                              the Gadgets bar, a very lame implementation, the widgets are often bulky and they're always on your screen and you have to go through so any things to get them back up of you click them off. The Mac you just click on Dashboard and there are your widgets.

                              As you can tell I'm more of a Mac guy, I do work on both computers at my job. And supporting the Mac is a dream in comparison to a windows machine. Normally everything works right away on the Mac, no playing with driver versions like the windows side.. True device plug and play on the mac, compared to Plug and Play around with it until you suffer from patchy baldness because you tore the hair from your scalp.

                              Windows from what I have experienced is kind of like a deck of cards, if all the parts are compatible, and you have all the drivers and everything you need it has a tendency to be relatively stable. But that can all of a sudden change and bring the whole system down.

                              I prefer Linux or Mac definitely, Windows is like the Relative you have to invite to family gatherings because the rest of your family would make you feel guilty if you didn't. Windows is like the kid that sits on the stool in the class room with the cone shaped hat on his head.
                              So I tell the swamp donkey to sock it before I give her a trunky in the tradesman's entrance and have her lick me yarbles! - Hooligan from the Movie Eurotrip.

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                              • #30
                                Quoth EmiOfBrie View Post
                                Erf....2001/2002 was around the time Mac stopped those games. Their backward compatibility between the differing versions of OS X has been rather good, likely due to the fact that they all run on top of BSD Unix. I have programs on my system that I got back during 10.1 that still run fine on 10.4.8
                                Good to know, but it's too late. OS X was the breaking point and the cost of developing for its successors is too high especially with no guarantees that Apple won't yank the rug out again. Sales of the Mac version were never that high to begin with, so throwing more resources at it is a waste of time and money from our perspective.

                                It's not a matter of bias; it's a matter of economics. We don't hate Macs or Mac users (unless they start obnoxiously proselytizing or acting like we're in some evil conspiracy with Bill Gates; even then I wouldn't say we hate them; it's more like a dull throbbing of annoyance), we just want to make enough money to stay in business. That means Windows, even if they messed up with Vista.
                                Last edited by Dips; 03-19-2007, 07:25 PM.
                                The best karma is letting a jerk bash himself senseless on the wall of your polite indifference.

                                The stupid is strong with this one.

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