Do you not understand "NO"?!

[Seraph]

Of course he doesn't...he's the CUSTOMER!

Okay...this is a bit of an update regarding the I WANT to Be Sued Guy from my earlier thread at http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...ad.php?t=32832

So it's gotten worse and worse with that job. I sent mockup after mockup, and he never liked any of them. Funnily enough, he refused to give me any more input on what he'd want except "YOU are the designer, YOU are supposed to know what looks good!" Joy. Guess he expects me to be a mind reader.

I finally laid down the law after the third full mockup was shot down, and told him that unless he shaped up, I was going to be charging per revision. He immediately picked one that he liked...which was good. Only thing he asked for...was to make the colors "more vibrant". AKA....he wasn't satisfied until his site was practically NEON. So it takes a couple of days, but I finally got the site to where...I have this in writing now...he approves of the design totally and completely. I had him confirm it three times in a row, haha. One of those "You like this? Now, is there anything you want changed? Is there absolutely ANY SMALL ELEMENT you want changed? Are you totally positive there is nothing you want changed?"

At this point I got my coder (I outsource on occasion ) to start installing the template...and as SOON as its done...he goes Uber SC on me.

Oh dear, it doesn't look a THING like the other site! (Well yeah, because we went over the lawsuit bit already)

No no no, this isn't what he wanted...he wanted a site that looks just like the other. What do I mean, I told him he could be sued. I never said such a thing to him. I am lying. Wait, I have logs? Okay then, he'll be quiet a bit.

What should've been an hour long job at most (installing it is fairly easy...just have to tweak it to match colors and such)...took EIGHT. I ended up staying up until 3 AM over it.

What was very frustrating was that he refused to send my payment until the coder was done, even though I was paying her, not him. But...remembering all the times I have been burnt...the coder and I were more than ready to torch the entire site's data had he not paid or tried to stiff me.


In the end I finally did get paid, and hopefully he's now out of my life...but I don't think I've ever been treated like this before by any of my clients. He just constantly got so angry anytime I said that any extra work beyond the scope of the contract would cost him.

But then again...this guy did once ask me a few months back if I could make him a fully flash website, with an admin area, SEO, and several advertisements....for around $50.

:P

EDIT:

Forgot to mention one of the things connected to the title of the thread. He constantly asked for us to change the color of the site to a "bright green" for free, even though I explained that it'd, quite literally, hurt the eyes. Every time I explained that, he'd agree with my decision...and not five minutes later bring it back up again. When I finally flat out said no, because I had already had the design approved, and that to change it would cost him...he went to my coder (who was on a separate AIM account) and tried to get her to do it for free. It was ridiculous...because even though he knew she and I were in CONSTANT contact and updating each other on what was going on with our ends..he kept trying to go behind each of our backs. Its was INSANE. She'd tell him no about something, he'd come to me. I'd say no, you'd have to pay for that....he'd go to her and ask. RRRRGH.

[Evil Queen]

*ahem*

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME~!



What, we were all thinking it!

[tropicsgoddess]

Of course he doesn't...he's the CUSTOMER!

Okay...this is a bit of an update regarding the I WANT to Be Sued Guy from my earlier thread at http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...ad.php?t=32832

---<SNIP!>---
Oh dear, it doesn't look a THING like the other site! (Well yeah, because we went over the lawsuit bit already)

No no no, this isn't what he wanted...he wanted a site that looks just like the other. What do I mean, I told him he could be sued. I never said such a thing to him. I am lying. Wait, I have logs? Okay then, he'll be quiet a bit.

What should've been an hour long job at most (installing it is fairly easy...just have to tweak it to match colors and such)...took EIGHT. I ended up staying up until 3 AM over it.

What was very frustrating was that he refused to send my payment until the coder was done, even though I was paying her, not him. But...remembering all the times I have been burnt...the coder and I were more than ready to torch the entire site's data had he not paid or tried to stiff me.


In the end I finally did get paid, and hopefully he's now out of my life...but I don't think I've ever been treated like this before by any of my clients. He just constantly got so angry anytime I said that any extra work beyond the scope of the contract would cost him.

But then again...this guy did once ask me a few months back if I could make him a fully flash website, with an admin area, SEO, and several advertisements....for around $50.

:P

EDIT:

Forgot to mention one of the things connected to the title of the thread. He constantly asked for us to change the color of the site to a "bright green" for free, even though I explained that it'd, quite literally, hurt the eyes. Every time I explained that, he'd agree with my decision...and not five minutes later bring it back up again. When I finally flat out said no, because I had already had the design approved, and that to change it would cost him...he went to my coder (who was on a separate AIM account) and tried to get her to do it for free. It was ridiculous...because even though he knew she and I were in CONSTANT contact and updating each other on what was going on with our ends..he kept trying to go behind each of our backs. Its was INSANE. She'd tell him no about something, he'd come to me. I'd say no, you'd have to pay for that....he'd go to her and ask. RRRRGH.

Damn, Seraph you have my sympathies. I can't believe that idiot still insists on having his site to look like a neon replication of some big corporation's website. That dude is really asking for a ginormous lawsuit and there's no way somebody like him (even with a good lawyer) would win against a bunch of corporate lawyers if that were to happen. I'm glad you got a contract up on him in case he tries to pull some slick shit again, but I'm appalled that he went to your coder behind your back to try and wheedle her into coding his site for free and that he had the audacity to ask you to design his site with pretty much the works for about a whopping $50. Cheap bastard. Maybe you should tack on an SC fee with all the other fees (revisions, etc.) if he gives you anymore shit, but just make sure the SC fee is much higher.

[Seraph]

*ahem*

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME~!



What, we were all thinking it!

LOL I've been thinking that since...oh...Saturday?

Damn, Seraph you have my sympathies. I can't believe that idiot still insists on having his site to look like a neon replication of some big corporation's website. That dude is really asking for a ginormous lawsuit and there's no way somebody like him (even with a good lawyer) would win against a bunch of corporate lawyers if that were to happen. I'm glad you got a contract up on him in case he tries to pull some slick shit again, but I'm appalled that he went to your coder behind your back to try and wheedle her into coding his site for free and that he had the audacity to ask you to design his site with pretty much the works for about a whopping $50. Cheap bastard. Maybe you should tack on an SC fee with all the other fees (revisions, etc.) if he gives you anymore shit, but just make sure the SC fee is much higher.

He really *is* asking for it. I feel really REALLY stupid because last night, he asked me to make him a certain quantity of some images...and to put them on the site in a certain manner. I just figured he was being kvetchy...and I looked this morning at Bigger Site and zomg...he had me pretty much rip them off.

The coder was TICKED. She didn't let him pull any bull...especially since she was only charging me $25 to code it. From what she said though, he started bugging her last night to do extra work..and she charged him separately and didn't charge me for it. She rocks.

This is not meant to be offensive in any way...and I only mention this because..well...it's true. He's from India, and he expects us to work at the same prices as they do. Uh....not happening.

Ironically...I did charge him a bit more for being an SC. With the amount of stuff he purchased...I normally cut $20 off the template price and give a break on other purchases. I still charged the $20, and made him pay full price on everything but the logo. And he barely got a price break on that as well.

[tropicsgoddess]

The coder was TICKED. She didn't let him pull any bull...especially since she was only charging me $25 to code it. From what she said though, he started bugging her last night to do extra work..and she charged him separately and didn't charge me for it. She rocks.

This is not meant to be offensive in any way...and I only mention this because..well...it's true. He's from India, and he expects us to work at the same prices as they do. Uh....not happening.

Ironically...I did charge him a bit more for being an SC. With the amount of stuff he purchased...I normally cut $20 off the template price and give a break on other purchases. I still charged the $20, and made him pay full price on everything but the logo. And he barely got a price break on that as well.

None taken. Slightly OT, but when I used to work in a online pet med call center, I would have SC's calling in and demanding that we match or beat our foreign competitors prices. Not happening. Wow, $25 is how much your coder is charging him?!! That's a steal! Good job on upping the ante on this royal pain.

[otakuneko]

I finally laid down the law after the third full mockup was shot down, and told him that unless he shaped up, I was going to be charging per revision

Retroactively of course, right?


Also, people who put up or even want fully-flash websites should go DIAF.

[Balgram]

...I'm so glad that I'm still an amateur designer. Most of my jobs take less than a few hours, and it hurts less when people don't pay.

Although mind you, I've had 3 people stop talking to me when I finish their site. I should take some of the "here's what you do to not get stiffed" advice.

You know my favorite client? I have someone who won't sign a contract (flat out refused) but won't let me work until he pays me in advance. He throws some money at me via PayPal, and insists I do nothing until it's safe and mine. He is really careful that I get paid. If I use more time than he gave me, he covers it immediately.

It's the coolest idea ever, although I doubt it'll catch on.

[Geek King]

You know my favorite client? I have someone who won't sign a contract (flat out refused) but won't let me work until he pays me in advance. He throws some money at me via PayPal, and insists I do nothing until it's safe and mine. He is really careful that I get paid. If I use more time than he gave me, he covers it immediately.

It's the coolest idea ever, although I doubt it'll catch on.

It's a nice idea, and it shows that your client really trusts you, but it doesn't really work unless you know the contractor well. There are a lot of contractors--legitimate ones, even--that, if paid in full before the project is complete, will then put that project on low priority in favour of projects not paid for yet. It is then next to impossible to get them to finish in a timely manner.

That's why most contractor projects should be written up with benchmarks for payments. In your case, maybe a deposit, followed by payments for first version (or mock up, maybe), final version, and the site going live triggering the final sum. You would probably also want to put in guidelines for number of revisions covered and how much it would cost for revisions past that point. This way, both the contractor and the person hiring them are protected somewhat.

[Seraph]

Retroactively of course, right?


Also, people who put up or even want fully-flash websites should go DIAF.

Heck yes it was retroactive.

Amen. There are still a LOT of dial up users out there, and on top of that they're so horrible for SEO...the list of downsides is HUGE.

You know my favorite client? I have someone who won't sign a contract (flat out refused) but won't let me work until he pays me in advance. He throws some money at me via PayPal, and insists I do nothing until it's safe and mine. He is really careful that I get paid. If I use more time than he gave me, he covers it immediately.

I now plan on killing you and stealing your awesome client. If you hear a knock on door and a voice say "Candygram....UPS...", answer it.


Well...small update. Again.

Late at night, he asked me to make him three more of this one image that he liked on the site. Being exhausted and wanting him to go away, I of course charged him for them and made them as fast as I could. A few minutes after I gave him the files and he said he'd uploaded them...I think...now why would he want to have four of those? Oh *(&*.

I run to check The Big Site He Loves So Much I Think He Wants To Have Its Babies...and yep. They have four of the same images. In the same placement. With the same kind of text that he asked me to put on those images.

Feckit. I'd been had. And (unknowingly) assisted in him coming even closer to the rain slicked precipice of darkness...er...copyright infringement.

Even worse, my poor coder informed me this morning he told her to adjust the side menu colors and some other things on the site, telling her he'd spoken to me. You, of course, can guess how much truth was in that statement. :P

I sent him a nice message, stating that I had him approve the original design, and that I didn't appreciate him going BEHIND MY BACK to alter something that had my mark on it. I explained that the hideous beast it now had become was so drastically changed from my design that I didn't even feel that it should have my link on it.

He hasn't spoken to me since. Good riddance.

The site is now, literally, so hideously ugly, that he will be the FIRST person in my portfolio who will have a notation beside the entry about the fact that he deliberately altered the design so that it doesn't look nice anymore. And then I'll link my original ideas.

I want nice clients again...

[Samaliel]

The site is now, literally, so hideously ugly, that he will be the FIRST person in my portfolio who will have a notation beside the entry about the fact that he deliberately altered the design so that it doesn't look nice anymore. And then I'll link my original ideas.

From what I read, I wouldn't even want to put that in my portfolio to begin with. Just put your original ideas online as "design submitted to the customer", and don't bother with the actual site. If it's hideous enough that you felt you had to take your link off of it, I wouldn't want to be associated with that site in any way shape or form.

[Arm]

amen. I'm going to be doing some work on a site like that today.

Client wants RED. Straight up FF0000. Nothing but that will do.

As a background. For a bar that has TEXT and PICTURES on it.

I am so glad my boss deals with these guys, not me. This is the client that had so much color vibration, we wound up calling in my graphic designer friend to fix the site. Except that the client wouldn't accept any of her suggestions.

I've been procrastinating finishing this site for a day and a half now because IT HURTS TO LOOK AT.

...but, I like money, so I'll finish it today so I can be *done* with it.

[Dreamstalker]

Me neither, especially since it's getting ever closer to copyright-infringement territory. I would (after this d-bag pays up) remove from the site any evidence that you had a hand in it.

If I were feeling particularly evil, I would even drop a line to BigCorp and let them know there's a ripoff artist out there (only if you can't be linked to the ripoff)

[Seraph]

Yeah, Samaliel...but the bad thing is that I've already done that with a couple of designs...and honestly my portfolio is semi-sorta small. >_< I need all the references I can get...

And then there's the flip side. For some reason, I get a lot of jobs based on the cruddy looking sites I've made. I kid you not. One site I did not like admitting that I created...got me eight clients who absolutely adored it.

Arm...don't ya just hate that? I did a site not too long ago where I had to mix hot pink, navy blue, green, and grey. Srsly. I about died that day. I was so happy because I thought for months afterwards that they had decided not to put it up after all...and now I see it's live. Oh god. (EDIT: wait no, it's down again YES)

Dreamstalker...I actually discussed doing that very thing with my coder. Only problem would be that they'd see it as the fact I was a "willing participant", even though I was anything but. So it sucks...but I can't do that, even though I want to.