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  • Lawyer Man

    Lawyer Man (turning the law on its head for all US Citizens...) this is somewhat long

    This one still makes me laugh to this day. A little bit of background on this one is needed to set the scene as they say. As I have mentioned before, I work for a prepaid wireless service. Now when it comes to making a request to see your call records we charge a modest fee as we print it out and then send it to you. This covers cost of paper, ink and postage. This is a flat fee whether you have a call record that is 10 pages or one that is 100 the cost remains the same. I think we should charge more for more pages, but hey that would make sense, and far be it from management to do anything that makes sense. Getting on to that rant would get me way to off topic here. In any case we get a myriad of calls where people get disgusted over this fee to print a copy of their call log. One I had last year though takes the cake.

    Now, since I'm paying my way through school with a customer service job I decided to take a course on consumer law since it was offered and I needed an elective credit. It was actually a very informative class and I learned quite a bit that I had not known prior to taking the course. It was well worth it and i use the knowledge regularly to help our customers. You should see the relevance here as you read the rest of this story.

    Me: The one and only.... (my thoughts in parenthesis)
    LM: Lawyer Man [so dubbed for his excellent, and by excellent I really mean complete lack thereof, knowledge of the US legal system and laws, he also happened to say he was a lawyer]

    This was two years ago, so needless to say I don't recall the exact exchange here, but this is as best as I can remember it.

    Me: [insert canned greeting here]

    LM: [in a very official sounding tone of voice] I would like to invoke the Freedom of Information Act of 1967.

    Me: (o...k, thats one we didn't cover in class) I'm sorry sir?

    LM: The Freedom of Information Act, it's a law that was passed by the federal government, basically it states that you have to provide me a copy of my call records and you can't charge me for it.

    Me: (Wow, Freedom of Information, I guess I can see the stretch here) With due respect sir, if it were illegal for us to charge you for it, especially from such an official sounding law I'm fairly sure that we wouldn't do it. That would just be dumb on the part of our company. [At this point I started an Internet search for the law in question]

    LM: Well that is what the law says, now I would like a copy of my records sent to.... [At this point I've tuned him out as I have no intention of doing anything until I've read the law for myself]

    Me: Ok, just give me a few moments to pull this up. [I meant the law, I'm pretty sure he thinks I mean his call records]

    As it turns out the Freedom of Information Act in the US was passed in 1966, also irregardless of what it actually allows there are parts that clearly states the law does not apply to privately owned businesses. Also the provisions it does allow for are that requests must be submitted in writing, and the agency involved is allowed to set a processing fee. Also this law applies to the declassification of certain records making them available to the public. Also the written request is allowed to be denied on certain grounds. In any case, the guys request didn't apply to us as we are a privately owned business.

    Me: Well sir, according to the F-O-I-A website, assuming I'm reading this correctly (there my arse is covered, the information is actually clearly spelled out in the governments interpretation of the law, but hey) the Freedom of Information Act only applies to government agencies. Furthermore, the request made has to be submitted in writing, and the agency involved in the request is allowed to charge a processing fee.

    LM: [with wonderful selective hearing] OK , whats the address I need so I can submit a written request.

    Me: Well sir, there is no address you can write to to make a request under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act. As I had pointed out, this act applies to Government run agencies. Brand cellular being a privately owned business is therefore not subject to the provisions of the act in question.

    LM: Excuse me, are you a lawyer?

    Me: Well no sir, but....

    LM: Well then who are you to be interpreting a law?

    Me: Well sir, I may not be a lawyer, but if you go to....

    LM: Well, I was a Lawyer, so don't try to tell me what this law says. I know how to interpret a law and your going to do what this law says or I will sue your company.

    Me: (Right Mr super lawyer, the act was 1966 not 1967) [I repeat said thought but in a nicer manner.]

    LM: Excuse me, but you said you are not a lawyer, don't try to correct me.

    Me: Well Sir, I may not be a lawyer, but I do like to consider myself reasonably educated. The information I am quoting to you can be found at http://foia.state.gov It clearly shows that the act was passed in 1966 and then amended in 2002. It also clearly states that the act applies to records kept by government run agencies. Freedom in this case does not refer to the information being free of charge, but free as in not classified. Irregardless of any other provisions in the Act, it clearly states GOVERNMENT RUN agencies, and therefore does not apply to brand cellular which is PRIVATELY owned.

    LM: Well, I've never been so insulted in my life. I want the address to your corporate office and your legal department.

    Me: [I give him the corporate address.] However sir, we do not have a legal department. However, if you provide me with an address where we can contact you or your lawyer I will forward the details to the appropriate authority and they will have our lawyers contact yours.

    LM: In that case I want to cancel my service and I want a full refund.

    Me: Well sir, I'm sorry you feel that way (not really) but I would be more than happy to help you cancel your service (especially since it means I won't ever have to talk to you again) However, brand cellular phones are not refundable.

    LM: Oh no,don't try to pull a fast one on me son. I am a lawyer I know all about implied warranty.

    Me: (I know we covered that one in class) Ok.... now as I understand it Implied warranty only applies if no written warranty was supplied. And it also only guarantees that the product in question will perform as advertised by the seller. It also generally covers products for up to 30 days in most cases, which your phone is well beyond 30 days old. [this account was about 4 months old] But, again I'm not completely sure on this one, so my best suggestion to you would be to contact your local Better Business Bureau and ask them about the provisions of implied warranty in your state.

    LM: Well I guess I'll just do that. And whats your name?

    Me: I give him my first name (internally sighing since i have a fair idea of where this is going)

    LM: And your last name so I can make sure your name is on the subpoena.

    Me: Well sir, I am not authorized by brand cellular to provide my last name. However I am working at the [insert city] based call center. I am the only [first name] that works here. I am also leaving notes on your account to detail what we have talked about so they will be able to identify me by my user name.

    LM: And what is that user name?

    Me: (you can't be serious) That user name is private information sir.

    LM: Ok... refuses to give appropriate contact information, And where should I send that subpoena.

    Me: (like you are really going to) [insert company address and fax number here]

    LM: Well Chanlin I look forward to seeing your smug little face in court, and when your company gets taken for everything its worth I hope your remember not to F*** with federal law. [click]

    I mean come on. If you're going to try and use a law to your advantage, do some research on it first. Especially if your going to claim to be a lawyer cause then you just look dumb.

  • #2
    He could be a real lawyer, but one more used to beating his way through courts full of people who don't know the law (unlikely), or he could be full of shit.

    I suspect 'all of the above' is correct

    Rapscallion

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    • #3
      You know I'm realizing Said at one point it was last year and then a little ways down that it was two years ago. I'm more certain it was two years ago. In any case that shows you how far gone the exact details are

      Comment


      • #4
        He said he 'was' a lawyer. I'd say he was disbarred. Or he sucked so bad (since he obviously does not know the law) that he never had any clients and is now working at a McDonalds.

        I always loved the smug "I'm a lawyer/doctor/brain surgeon" comments. Well isn't that special? Then they start in acting as if they're the smartest person in the world and I'm an idiot. If you're so smart and I'm such an idiot, why, in God's name, are you asking ME for help?
        Oh, "Blah blah blah 'Your Needs'!"

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        • #5
          He could be a real lawyer, but one more used to beating his way through courts full of people who don't know the law (unlikely), or he could be full of shit.
          So in other words, the "lawyer" he was talking to was probably Jack Thompson.

          Comment


          • #6
            Quoth Rapscallion View Post
            or he could be full of shit.
            I suspect this bit
            "I reject your reality and substitute my own"....Adam Savage-Mythbuster

            Must remember to stop using "brain of death" on slower morons.... I meant customers.

            Comment


            • #7
              I hate-hate-hate-hate-hate "Lawyers"!!!

              Working in fraud prevention for cell phones, I deal with them regularly.

              If someone gets a hold of your credit card info and makes a purchase with us, we cannot give out the cell # they added minutes to. It's part of the privacy laws. According to the same laws, if you call in fraudulent charges and have us investigate them, then when whoever is using the phone calls in and tries to add more minutes and we tell them its been suspended, we cannot give out any info on who reported the charges as fraudulent. You'd think it would be obvious why, right? Not to "lawyers'! Say we gave out the name, address and phone number on a fraudulent account, and the perpetrator was dumb enough to put their own name and address down. (yes, it happens.) Well then the credit card owner could go to that address, find that person and SHOOT THEM or something equally bad. We are then liable.

              But people call us all the time to report fraudulent charges, and then have hissy fits because we won't give them the information on the account. They will claim to be lawyers and tell us that they understand the laws better than we do and that since the person has used their credit card, they have forfeited their right to privacy.

              I once had a guy call back 10 or 15 times, threatening every person he spoke to, because no one would give him the info on the account. He literally refused to take no for an answer. He kept demanding to know exactly which laws prevented us from giving out the info and then demanded to talk to the head of our legal dept. ( yeah, like we have an entire legal 'dept'.)

              I get so damn tired of that.
              Because as we all know, on the Internet all men are men, all women are men and all children are FBI agents.

              Comment


              • #8
                Quoth wj_737_700 View Post
                So in other words, the "lawyer" he was talking to was probably Jack Thompson.
                Damn it! I knew I should have said that when I got the chance. Now you've beaten me to the punch!
                I AM the evil bastard!
                A+ Certified IT Technician

                Comment


                • #9
                  Quoth wj_737_700 View Post
                  So in other words, the "lawyer" he was talking to was probably Jack Thompson.
                  I was thinking he could've been Lionel Hutz.
                  Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

                  "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Where I work, we do have a legal department. When someone starts threatening lawsuits and such, we just give them legal's address and move on to something else.

                    That always leads to... "Can I have the 800 number?"

                    No... it's not like it's a call center with lawyers sitting in little cubicles eagerly awaiting customer calls.
                    I was neat, clean, shaved and sober, and I didn't care who knew it. -- Raymond Chandler

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                    • #11
                      I got to 'I -was- a lawyer' and about snorted my orange juice. That's freaking hilarous.

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                      • #12
                        Did he actually end up cancelling his account??????? It is calls like these that I love to keep track of the notes on.
                        Woman are like guns, if you don't treat us right, we'll blow up in your face!

                        Pain is your bodies way of telling you that you're still alive.

                        I am also known as Liquid Skin and Silkekitten.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I never canceled his account. I never checked to see if he called back to do it. I've not heard anything at all on the issue since taking the call so I can only assume he canceled it or let the account expire.

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                          • #14
                            It's amazing how everyone who is currently or ever has been a lawyer at any point thinks that we will all shudder and obey at the mere mention of their chosen field.

                            Did he say subpoena? oooOoOoOoooH what's that Mr scary lawyer man?*shudder*

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                            • #15
                              Or a customer who can't get a field tech out in the next hour to their house, is threatening to send a letter from their lawyer, contact the BBB or their local government, etc. I hear it about once each day, so hearing it again doesn't really scare me, Mr. Customer. It still doesn't effect what I can do for you, despite running a business on a residential acct and having no backup while you lose "millions". Residential service is for old ladies to email their grandkids, for old men to look up porn, and for your son/daughter to download illegal music and play online games.

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