"You worked around it, you didn't actually fix it."

[sld72382]

Did you even get this phrase from a customer before? I did, and it's really frustrating. Sorry but if I can find a solution that works in 1/4 of the time that is what you'll be getting or just because you pay for something doesn't mean it isn't causing the issue.

Here are 2 examples of when we still had a pay-for-support dept in my center:

1. Your shitty AV software was causing the issue. Deal with it.

Mind you, this SC must have been in his 60's or 70's and he admitted he was clueless about computers.

He said his computer was running slow and sometimes freezing on him when he was surfing the internet (I think he was using IE). So I remote in and see the issue: the 2006 edition of Norton Internet Security. This version is the one where the company admitted it was still in beta form when it shipped.

Before I just remove it, I remove all toolbars (which by the way he was resistant to it, insisting that "those don't effect anything") and clear startup and reboot. PC is still slow. I boot into safe mode and PC is running like a champ. So I reboot into normal mode and tell him the news....

Me: I seems like your security software is causing the issue. I'm going to have uninstall it....

SC: No! I paid for it!

Me: I noticed your subscription is going to expire in a week anyway. If you want your computer to run right, it's best to remove it and replace it with something else....

SC: If you have to remove my antivirus software that is working around the issue and not fixing it! Now do that nifty techie stuff, impress me!

After waiting for his PC to boot up, I turn off the software and guess what? PC runs like a champ. I turn it on and it runs like crap.

Me: If you don't let me remove your antivirus software your issue will not be fixed, I'm sorry to say.

SC: I didn't pay all this money just so you can remove software I paid for and call it a day, that's not fixing the issue.

Me: *Fed up at this point.* Then what we can do is have you back up your data and call back to run a factory restore.

SC: I don't want to do that.

Me: Well then the other option is to have me uninstall the Norton and the issue will be fixed.

SC: Fine do it!

So I did. And as expected it fixed the issue. He demands I reinstall it even after I suggest going with something else.

Me: I can't in good conscience install a product that is going to cause you trouble.

SC: But it's Norton!

Me: Lots of people are having the same issues you are having. Norton admitted this version was shipped with lots of known bugs. That's why I suggested you go with something else or wait for the 2007 version.

SC: Just give me my case number!

Me: Sure, it's xxxxxxx.

SC: Have a good day! (in a "eat shit" tone).

*Click.*

Let me tell you that the 2006 edition of Norton was among the most troublesome, unstable software we ever had to deal with. I had plenty of calls like that, at least most customers weren't resistant to my fix.

2. The document is CORRUPTED, sir. No other way of saying it.

I get a guy who says he is having weird formatting issues with a Word document. The rep who sold the service to him was amazed he got the sale as the guy was bitching about it being not covered under his service contract.

I remote in, and I see that the text will type in the correct font, but that's about it. It seemed that this document was doing all sorts of weird shit to his text (Don't remember exactly what it was).

After about 30 minutes of turning off settings, turning settings on, and trying just about everything, I had an idea. I opened up a new blank document and merely copy-in-pasted the text from the old document to the new one. Bingo! Works perfectly. Issue fixed, right? Not to this guy....

SC: You just copied and pasted. You didn't actually fix the problem.

Me: Um the issue is fixed, seems like the old document was corrupted. The text itself wasn't corrupted which is why it works fine in the new document.

SC: You worked around the problem, you didn't actually fix anything.

Me: If the original document is corrupted, there really was no way to fix it. Thankfully the text itself copied over to the new document just fine.

SC: Listen, I paid for you to fix the issue not do a copy and paste job!

Me: Sir, the issue is fixed. You have your document in good working order now.

SC: You worked around the issue! I could have copy and pasted myself!

Me: *Thinking: so why didn't you try that yourself?* I really don't know what else to tell you. The issue is fixed.

SC: I want a refund!

Me: Sorry sir once the issue is fixed there are no refunds given.

SC: I'll just have to hang up and speak to a manager!

Me: Sir if you want to do that....

*Click.*

I checked the case notes and he never called back, much less asked to speak to a manager. And a manager wouldn't have done anything anyway.

[Andara Bledin]

This version is the one where the company admitted it was still in beta form when it shipped.

Ah, is that what was up with that.

I've used Norton pretty much always (it's the only one that doesn't give me trouble, somehow), and that one never installed quite right. It didn't actually cause any other problems, it just had some wonkiness related to updating.

^-.-^

[draggar]

SC: But it's Norton!

Right there is enough proof he doesn't know much about computers.

SC: Have a good day! (in a "eat shit" tone).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKG07...eature=related

Let me tell you that the 2006 edition of Norton was among the most troublesome, unstable software we ever had to deal with. I had plenty of calls like that, at least most customers weren't resistant to my fix.

I guess you never used Norton's System Works that came out in the very late 1990s?

SC: You just copied and pasted. You didn't actually fix the problem.

Me: Um the issue is fixed, seems like the old document was corrupted. The text itself wasn't corrupted which is why it works fine in the new document.

SC: You worked around the problem, you didn't actually fix anything.

Me: If the original document is corrupted, there really was no way to fix it. Thankfully the text itself copied over to the new document just fine.

SC: Listen, I paid for you to fix the issue not do a copy and paste job!

Me: Sir, the issue is fixed. You have your document in good working order now.

SC: You worked around the issue! I could have copy and pasted myself!

Me: *Thinking: so why didn't you try that yourself?* I really don't know what else to tell you. The issue is fixed.

I've never done "paid" support but I wouldn't be surprised if people gave the "I could have done that myself, I want a refund" line far more often.

[Andara Bledin]

Right there is enough proof he doesn't know much about computers.

If I wasn't a participant in tech-related online forums, I wouldn't know about the problems other people have with Norton. It's always been absolutely stellar for me, barring that one issue mentioned ealier.

Now, AVG, on the other hand, is the bane of my existence.

^-.-^

[grokit]

My experience of Norton was finding a number of viruses on a machine that was "protected" by Norton. The machine was used by the sys admin before me who wasn't clueless, so I doubt he was clicking on things he shouldn't have.

Since then we've switched to NOD32 and it's been a pleasure. Much, much lighter footprint than Norton. Dunno if it's still the case, but Norton seemed to slow machines down quite drastically, worse still if a scan was being run. NOD32 on the other hand I don't notice and can run a scan while still working on the machine.

[lordlundar]

SC: Listen, I paid for you to fix the issue not do a copy and paste job!

"No, you paid me to apply my knowledge of computers to get the end result you desired. The fact that the procedure was something an inebriated armadillo could have pieced together in a coma is irrelevant."

Yup, I'm in a snarky mood today, how'd ya guess?

[protege]

I guess you never used Norton's System Works that came out in the very late 1990s?

If it's the edition I'm thinking of...it sucked balls. That thing was such a resource hog that it alone was responsible for crashing most of the computers in my office. Ironic, since one of the features was Crashguard...which was supposed to let you close out frozen apps

[sld72382]

I've never done "paid" support but I wouldn't be surprised if people gave the "I could have done that myself, I want a refund" line far more often.

I had a customer who wanted a half refund because the fix for her network issue was to have her turn her laptop's wireless switch on. I told her the issue was fixed thus no refunds of any kind, she bitched and moaned until she got the public defense dept who succumbed to her "I'll go on every single complaint site and report you!" line and mailed her a gift card for half the amount.

[earl colby pottinger]

Was a hacker

I grew up being a hacker. Not cracker, hacker - I could hack out solutions to a number of problems.

Well, to save money and time I used to hack out solutions to people's hardware until someone at the school board decided they want 'REAL' fixes, not quick hacks.

In their favor, hardware type hacks tend to get the problem fix, but wear out a lot sooner than a real fix where you replace the broken hardware.

But once the school board made it clear they wanted 'REAL' repairs, repair time times when from 30 minutes drop-by and the unit is working ... to ... 30 minute disassembly and confirm part number, leave unit still not working, wait a day or two for JIT delivery, another 30 minute stay to fix the problem.

Only to find in 5%-10% that, opps, that is not the only problem and now we have to order again. Many repairs went from 30 minute calls to 3-5 days to get the unit working. And no, I could no long hack the hardware - the company I worked for was hired by the school board not the teachers and the school board said NO HACKS!

[Eric the Grey]

I guess you never used Norton's System Works that came out in the very late 1990s?

If it's the edition I'm thinking of...it sucked balls. That thing was such a resource hog that it alone was responsible for crashing most of the computers in my office. Ironic, since one of the features was Crashguard...which was supposed to let you close out frozen apps

I don't know exactly which version I had, but I actually liked System Works. The first thing I did was turn off all the continual monitoring (or just not install that particular component) and things were fine. I got a number of tools that actually did help resolve minor problems and speed up my systems (speed disk always rocked), but as time went on, Norton grew more and more bloated and took more and more control of your system, making them useless to use.

I was (and apparently still am) in their beta program, testing different apps, and even complaints from their testers didn't solve very obvious problems some of their suites had (no, I don't want windows automatically installing updates whenever it decides to, I want to review them first, and decide for myself if and when they needed to be installed, TYVM).

I stopped testing when I kept loosing the user of my computer for hours, because I had so much disk installed (currently 1.5 tb) and it took forever for the thing to scan and such... One of these days I'll make myself a new test box and go back to doing them, because I really did like testing. Just need a stand-alone PC that doesn't have so much stuff on it.


Eric the Grey

[Shalom]

If it's the edition I'm thinking of...it sucked balls. That thing was such a resource hog that it alone was responsible for crashing most of the computers in my office.

Seconded. In fact the disk I have has a huge question mark drawn in black magic marker after the word "Works". How many times I came back to my machine (which was on overnight) and I had to kill SYMLCSVC,EXE which was hanging the whole machine, UGH don't remind me.

Ehhh... NSW and NAV haven't been the same since Peter Norton was running the place. Back in the old Win98 days it was great... hell I was using it all the way back on Win3.11. But eventually the site stopped updating the old versions of the software and the new versions had a much higher Lovelace factor. I eventually retired it (and you know what a pain in the arse it is to uninstall Norton products, as they get their tentacles everywhere) and put in NOD32 instead.

[EvilEmpryss]

SC: You just copied and pasted. You didn't actually fix the problem.

Me: Um the issue is fixed, seems like the old document was corrupted. The text itself wasn't corrupted which is why it works fine in the new document.

SC: You worked around the problem, you didn't actually fix anything.

Me: If the original document is corrupted, there really was no way to fix it. Thankfully the text itself copied over to the new document just fine.

I think I understand what the customer was asking for: as the customer saw it, "something" corrupted the doc and started the problem. If "all you did" was save his work, then he had no assurance that the problem wouldn't occur again. Now, it's a sure sign of a computer noob that they don't understand that sometimes weird shit happens to files, and while it may never be explained it will also never recur. He just didn't get it.

I'm not discounting the help you gave him. On the contrary, I've often wanted to send candy and flowers to the techies that saved my Very Important Documents, even if they couldn't tell me what happened because they either couldn't or just couldn't dumb down enough to explain it to *me*. Sometimes, though, your confused, overwhelmed, panicky customers need a little reassurance that the problem won't happen again or, at the very least, if it does you'll be there to help.

[EricKei]

If I wasn't a participant in tech-related online forums, I wouldn't know about the problems other people have with Norton. It's always been absolutely stellar for me, barring that one issue mentioned ealier.

Now, AVG, on the other hand, is the bane of my existence.

As I deal mainly with accounting software, I've always had good things to say about AVG (except for this past week where AVG Free suddenly thinks that several of QuickBooks' component files are viruses when they're not).

As for Norton...that actually explains a LOT o_O Back in 2006 and 2007, We would have people call us and tell us that their QuickBooks or Peachtree software started dragging all of a sudden, taking 5+ minutes to startup, suddenly not being able to access a database that they just logged off of ten minutes before et al. After awhile, we just started asking people "Do you have Norton/Symantec/McAfee installed? ... You do? Shut it off" -- and BAM! More often than 9 times out of 10, that would fix the problem right there.

N/S/M still do interfere with the modern renditions of the programs, but the issue isn't nearly as widespread these days.

Sad.

[Pagan]

Hmmm. I've been using Avira for over a year now. It just runs in the background, doing it's thing and not bothering me unless something weird tries to come in.

[bean]

Ugh.. I finally talked my mom into retiring her 6 year old PC recently.

Because of Norton, actually. I did a factory restore on it last year because it was draaaaaaagggggginnnnng.. as in you'd try to open internet explorer and it would chug for 5+ minutes. Somehow, the day after I did the reinstall, it's doing the same crap.

She'd installed the latest and greatest version of Norton whatever, the PC didn't come anywhere near meeting the minimum requirements either. She absolutely refused to uninstall it and get something better.

Well, her PC was ancient anyway (P4 2.4, 512MB RAM, onboard video, WinXP), so I dragged her to CompUSA and got her the cheapest Windows 7 desktop they had that had a decent amount of RAM.. wound up being about $300, plus a monitor, so $475 or so with a Samsung 22" LCD, keyboard, mouse, and tax. Dual core 64 bit Celeron, 3GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium, 320GB HD. The guy helping us pick out a PC was nice enough to sell her a much, much better antivirus package, 3 PC license with a 1 year license for all 3 for $50.

It was sort of an expensive lesson, but she wound up with a PC easily 5x as fast, with a modern OS, plenty of RAM, and plenty of HD space.. and it's still the cheapest, bottom of the line PC you can get. She's very happy with it, I'm happy that I don't have to deal with her bitching about it being slow, and she's no longer bitching about her dim 14" LCD (how she found a 14" LCD 6 years ago is beyond me, I still haven't ever heard of the brand from anyone else). And ironically, the PC is US built, with name brand components that I would have chosen for myself.

Actually that stupid bottom of the barrel PC easily keeps up with my PC, and we won't talk about what I spent on mine (ages ago).