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I get when customers put in a home equity application and change their minds. You want to explore options, and maybe the home equity loan isn't the one you go with. Maybe the fees are a bit higher than you expected, or the time it's going to take to complete too long.
But when you go through the appraisal, the title search, gather the paperwork, get EVERYTHING up to the part where we are ready to sign papers and suddenly you're all... "eh, you know what, I'm not going to do this right now after all."
Grrrrrr....
I gots people to help who actually want the loans they're applying for.
Other time wasters:
The I'll have the money tomorrow....
Lady is being charged an upfront appraisal fee because... well, frankly we don't believe her house is going to have the value she's claiming. So, upfront cost on the appraisal, placing the risk on her if it doesn't go through. First, she waffles back and forth for 8 weeks whether or not she's going to go through with this... which would be okay if she didn't call every. other. day. to let me know that... well,she still isn't sure.
Finally, the application expires. So she puts in a NEW application. Says she's ready to pay for the upfront appraisal and get this going... except, she doesn't have the money in her account. For another THREE weeks, she doesn't have the money in her account. Finally, she puts the money in her account to cover the fee, and calls several days later wondering why I haven't ordered her appraisal yet. Um, because I'm not checking your account every day on the off chance you actually deposited the funds and I told you that YOU would need to inform ME when you were ready for me to take out the payment. ...and if the appraisal doesn't come back high enough, this will all be for naught anyway!
Well, I don't exactly have the job yet...
I ask for proof of income upfront, but there is no time to be waiting, so the appraisal and other services are ordered in the meanwhile. Sometimes, I get proof of income while waiting for everything else, sometimes it's the final item keeping the loan from closing.
A brand new job is NOT fun. We can use them, sometimes, if you moved from one job to the other, and if they offer an official letter of employment stating an exact salary (otherwise we have to wait for you to receive a full month's worth of paystubs). But it's potentially doable.
Telling me when the proof of income is the final item pending that the brand new job hasn't actually HIRED you yet, does not work. So, what you are saying is that... you aren't working your prior job any longer... and you don't actually have a new job, just a hopeful interview. Yeah. Not going to cut it.
Not actually making the money yet, the second
Customer has listed on application for her income:
Pension: $400 a month
Part Time Job: $1200 a month
Business Owner: $4000 a month.
Customer has approximately $2000 a month in debt payments,including the home loan she's trying to get.
So this is doable. Except... she doesn't want to have to turn in her 2-years of tax returns to prove her income from the business she owns. It takes me FAR too long to get through to her that $1600 a month of income is NOT enough to support $2000 a month in payments. We need to be able to verify all her income. I make this abundantly clear (partly because a lot of people list their business income wrong on loan applications. There are some complications due to being able to write off non-cash expenses on taxes, but in short: Sales do NOT equal profits.
So she finally sends me verification... of the pension and of the job she retired from.
Okay... the pension part is good. The job you no longer work at doesn't really help, so... how about that Part Time Job and Business taxes?
Well... apparently Part Time job hasn't actually started yet, and, not being a guaranteed salary, can't get a letter of employment or anything to actually verify that income will exist in the future. But she's getting social security starting next month! It'll be $1600 a month. Great! I can replace Part Time Job with Social Security. Just need the reward letter from Social security stating the monthly amount.
I get an APPLICATION to social security with a hand scrawled note on it stating she'll be getting $1682 a month starting 4 months from now. Um... no, that is not an award letter. That is not verification from social security, that is you making a request to social security. And that is not next month. Income verified to be starting next month and income that you claim they should be starting 4 months from now are two totally different things.
AND I still don't have the business tax returns.
Keep in mind that the back and forth with this customer over her income goes on for WEEKS before finally... she cancels the application. Because she doesn't want to have to show her business taxes, which she doesn't think we should need from her anyway.
Yeah, because that $400 a month income that you actually managed to verify really supports $2000 in monthly debt payments.
Should I do this?
Okay, I am good with giving advice. I want people to consider a loan they are getting, especially a loan on their house, and I can definitely go over pros and cons and, in general terms, other options that might be available if you don't want the loan on the house. But I CANNOT make your decision for you. These are pros. These are cons. This is what you are currently approved for. These are other things you might try. Take your time. Think about it. But I am not going to tell you what to do.
Side bar
And seriously, co-worker on the front line: stating in the application "customer has dementia and is very confused and does not understand process, so please send loan back to me so I can do paperwork with customer at closing"... um... Are you stating that you believe this customer does not understand what they are supposed to be signing? This is kinda important. We aren't medical professionals, but we DO notarize the signatures on paperwork, and part of that is you stating that the customer appears to be of sound mind and well... knows what they are signing. Sure, customer's spouse is also to be there and (presumably) sound of mind, but that means customer's spouse may need to go through the channels necessary to be able to start signing for their mentally not-all-there spouse.
At any rate, seriously, talk to legal.
.
But when you go through the appraisal, the title search, gather the paperwork, get EVERYTHING up to the part where we are ready to sign papers and suddenly you're all... "eh, you know what, I'm not going to do this right now after all."
Grrrrrr....
I gots people to help who actually want the loans they're applying for.
Other time wasters:
The I'll have the money tomorrow....
Lady is being charged an upfront appraisal fee because... well, frankly we don't believe her house is going to have the value she's claiming. So, upfront cost on the appraisal, placing the risk on her if it doesn't go through. First, she waffles back and forth for 8 weeks whether or not she's going to go through with this... which would be okay if she didn't call every. other. day. to let me know that... well,she still isn't sure.
Finally, the application expires. So she puts in a NEW application. Says she's ready to pay for the upfront appraisal and get this going... except, she doesn't have the money in her account. For another THREE weeks, she doesn't have the money in her account. Finally, she puts the money in her account to cover the fee, and calls several days later wondering why I haven't ordered her appraisal yet. Um, because I'm not checking your account every day on the off chance you actually deposited the funds and I told you that YOU would need to inform ME when you were ready for me to take out the payment. ...and if the appraisal doesn't come back high enough, this will all be for naught anyway!
Well, I don't exactly have the job yet...
I ask for proof of income upfront, but there is no time to be waiting, so the appraisal and other services are ordered in the meanwhile. Sometimes, I get proof of income while waiting for everything else, sometimes it's the final item keeping the loan from closing.
A brand new job is NOT fun. We can use them, sometimes, if you moved from one job to the other, and if they offer an official letter of employment stating an exact salary (otherwise we have to wait for you to receive a full month's worth of paystubs). But it's potentially doable.
Telling me when the proof of income is the final item pending that the brand new job hasn't actually HIRED you yet, does not work. So, what you are saying is that... you aren't working your prior job any longer... and you don't actually have a new job, just a hopeful interview. Yeah. Not going to cut it.
Not actually making the money yet, the second
Customer has listed on application for her income:
Pension: $400 a month
Part Time Job: $1200 a month
Business Owner: $4000 a month.
Customer has approximately $2000 a month in debt payments,including the home loan she's trying to get.
So this is doable. Except... she doesn't want to have to turn in her 2-years of tax returns to prove her income from the business she owns. It takes me FAR too long to get through to her that $1600 a month of income is NOT enough to support $2000 a month in payments. We need to be able to verify all her income. I make this abundantly clear (partly because a lot of people list their business income wrong on loan applications. There are some complications due to being able to write off non-cash expenses on taxes, but in short: Sales do NOT equal profits.
So she finally sends me verification... of the pension and of the job she retired from.
Okay... the pension part is good. The job you no longer work at doesn't really help, so... how about that Part Time Job and Business taxes?
Well... apparently Part Time job hasn't actually started yet, and, not being a guaranteed salary, can't get a letter of employment or anything to actually verify that income will exist in the future. But she's getting social security starting next month! It'll be $1600 a month. Great! I can replace Part Time Job with Social Security. Just need the reward letter from Social security stating the monthly amount.
I get an APPLICATION to social security with a hand scrawled note on it stating she'll be getting $1682 a month starting 4 months from now. Um... no, that is not an award letter. That is not verification from social security, that is you making a request to social security. And that is not next month. Income verified to be starting next month and income that you claim they should be starting 4 months from now are two totally different things.
AND I still don't have the business tax returns.
Keep in mind that the back and forth with this customer over her income goes on for WEEKS before finally... she cancels the application. Because she doesn't want to have to show her business taxes, which she doesn't think we should need from her anyway.
Yeah, because that $400 a month income that you actually managed to verify really supports $2000 in monthly debt payments.
Should I do this?
Okay, I am good with giving advice. I want people to consider a loan they are getting, especially a loan on their house, and I can definitely go over pros and cons and, in general terms, other options that might be available if you don't want the loan on the house. But I CANNOT make your decision for you. These are pros. These are cons. This is what you are currently approved for. These are other things you might try. Take your time. Think about it. But I am not going to tell you what to do.
Side bar
And seriously, co-worker on the front line: stating in the application "customer has dementia and is very confused and does not understand process, so please send loan back to me so I can do paperwork with customer at closing"... um... Are you stating that you believe this customer does not understand what they are supposed to be signing? This is kinda important. We aren't medical professionals, but we DO notarize the signatures on paperwork, and part of that is you stating that the customer appears to be of sound mind and well... knows what they are signing. Sure, customer's spouse is also to be there and (presumably) sound of mind, but that means customer's spouse may need to go through the channels necessary to be able to start signing for their mentally not-all-there spouse.
At any rate, seriously, talk to legal.
.
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