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  • Question: No shirt no shoes no service?

    I was ruminating on this rule and doing some research so I would have a solid answer to give mall customers when I find them without shoes or shirts. Some of what I read stated the law came into effect in the early 70's in any establishment with food for sale. Others said the law has never existed, it was a sham to keep hippies out of 'respectable' places in the 60's. Others state that the rule can be imposed on private property, but not in public ones (fine line there, being as how a lot of private property is open to the public). I'm leaning towards just telling people that not only is it a mall rule, it's a health and safety concern, since I can't find a specific health code regulation or law. Technically, we could kick someone out for not liking the color of their shirt! But since it seems EVERYONE we talk to is a lawyer I wanted to be specific with them. Does anyone have specifics for me?
    "If anyone wants this old box containing the broken bits of my former faith in humanity, I'll take your best offer now. You may be able to salvage a few of em' for parts..... " - Quote by Argabarga

  • #2
    This link should help:

    http://societyforbarefootliving.word...fairly-recent/

    My specifics in that kind of situation are usually a bit more direct. "I'm not here to argue the law. I'm sure that your legal citations would make a great affirmative defense in court, but let's not let it get that far, shall we?"

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    • #3
      As far as I know, it's just a policy. I believe in places that serve food it's more of a health reason but I don't know of any law like that here. I do know some of the cops have been handing out indecent exposure tickets to guys not wearing a shirt and their shorts so low you could almost see *them*.

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      • #4
        From what I've read, Arkansas' doesn't have anything concerning patrons, except those covered by the public decency laws.

        The places I've seen the signs are places that you'd think common sense would win, like hospitals, schools, food joints where hot foods are served (and spilled) and places where sharp objects or dangerous chemicals come into play (the repair center).

        When working at the repair center, I simply told them it was the repair center's policy that patrons be required to wear shirts and shoes when they come in and that if they didn't, I would refuse to serve them until they complied. I didn't argue anything. I stated it as fact and left it at that. (Besides, if I had to send a custy around back to pick up a lawn and garden or appliance, shoes wear a requirement. In spite of our best efforts, battery acid and other such items are not as easy to clean as you'd think.)
        If I make no sense, I apologize. I'm constantly interrupted by an actual toddler.

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        • #5
          Nobody would ever walk around in my store, or any other store for that matter, barefoot if they saw what goes on in them.

          Something glass drops on the floor and breaks? Somebody will sweep up the big pieces, but there will probably be tiny shards left behind.

          Something liquid is spilled on the floor? The cleanup job will be half-assed, and if it's on a carpeted surface forget about ever cleaning that up.

          Then there are the nails and splintered wood that break off pallets.
          Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

          "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

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          • #6
            Probably the best legal argument would be "Since you appear to know the law, then at this point, you would also be aware that <company> will not be held responsible in the event of injury, since you have just admitted that you are putting yourself at risk by failing to follow our policy?"
            The best professors are mad scientists! -Zoom

            Now queen of USSR-Land...

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            • #7
              I always figured the No shirt, etc rules were in place to exclude certain classes of customers. It's pretty similar to the "No Tapout, No Affliction" signs you see on clubs

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              • #8
                My company requires shirt and shoes because our insurance company said it's a liability issue that will increase our rates if we don't enforce it.

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                • #9
                  We require close toed shoes on our (decrepit) docks. Anyone argues I just say that I got tired of cleaning up the blood....
                  We have been told its for liability reasons, but nobody cares when told that, so I go with the blood stories.

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                  • #10
                    I believe malls are considered private property because they are privately owned (usually by a corporation, but that's still not public ownership) so they can make the rules as long as they don't discriminate in certain ways (race, gender, religion, etc).

                    But you could always use the old fallback: Because we said so.
                    When you start at zero, everything's progress.

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                    • #11
                      You would not believe how many parents would let their kids come into Lowes when I worked there with no shoes on. It really pissed me off when I saw a parent bringing their child walking down the lightbulb isle with no shoes. I would always tell them, just so you know we do drop, or clean up bulbs in this isle on a daily basis

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                      • #12
                        Shoes is easy: as others have said, come up with the goriest (true) story of what's been spilled on your floor/broken on your floor, and what would have happened had someone walked through without shoes.

                        Shirts is harder, as the consequences of walking around an air-conditioned area without a shirt are - well - pretty much nil. If bare arms and legs and hands and faces are fine, why not chests? (Butts I can see - people sit down on surfaces which might not be clean - public seats and benches).

                        Honestly, if I were coming up with a 'no bare X' policy for health reasons, I'd have everyone wearing a face mask (like the Asian 'sars' masks) and gloves. As well as shoes and butt coverings.
                        Seshat's self-help guide:
                        1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
                        2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
                        3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
                        4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

                        "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

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                        • #13
                          Quoth Seshat View Post
                          Shirts is harder, as the consequences of walking around an air-conditioned area without a shirt are - well - pretty much nil. If bare arms and legs and hands and faces are fine, why not chests? (Butts I can see - people sit down on surfaces which might not be clean - public seats and benches).
                          Personally, I'd say that since it is considered public indecency for a woman to not have a shirt on (except in a few states/cities that I can think of, so this may not work depending on where you live) we are an equal treatment facility, therefore men are not allowed to have their shirts off either.
                          My Writing Blog -Updated 05/06/2013
                          It's so I can get ideas out of my head, I decided to put it in a blog in case people are bored or are curious as to the (many) things in progress.

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