That is is NOT OK!!! (animals involved)

[Buglady]

Well, that was a fun way to end the evening... I got to finish off my shift at Happy Pet Food Store* by yelling at a budding psychopath

(*not the actual name of the store)

There's a separate store-within-a-store that sells fish, reptiles, tarantulas, and all the associated gear and food for those. I'm a biologist, I have no problem with the fact that predatory animals need to eat other creatures, and if you've got a predator for a pet you take on the responsibility of getting that food for it. Circle of life, etcetera.

I do, however, have a problem when someone - a young man, about 22 - comes out from that area carrying some feeder mice in a plastic carrier, and decides to SHAKE THE CAGE, bouncing the mice all around and making them squeak piteously!

The Teacher Voice came out before I could even think. "What are you doing? STOP THAT! That is NOT OK!" He stopped, looking surprised. (I have that effect on people when I use that voice... and I was not making any pretense of being anything less than disgusted by his display of cruelty).

He came over and tried to tell me that it's fine to shake the mice, because they are going to be eaten be a snake later anyway. No dice, buddy. The snake has no choice in needing to eat mice. YOU, as a human being, have a choice and an associated responsibility in how you treat the mice on their way to the snake. And by telling me that the pain of a creature a thousand times smaller than you, that you caused, not only does not matter to you but is giving you some kind of power trip - well, you just lowered yourself considerably in my estimation. You're a damn sorry excuse for a human being, let alone the man you think you are.

(Then I found out he wasn't a customer; he's the boyfriend of one of the other employees. I think I'm going to have a little chat with her later. This guy is bad news; she said something the other day about how he's "into pain". No, he's a cruel, spoiled little boy in a best case scenario - a freaking sociopath in the worst case. And if he comes anywhere near me again he's getting a steel-toed shoe somewhere he'll really enjoy if he truly is "into pain".)

[Arucard]

Sounds like TinyDancer's boyfriend in the making.

[NightWatch]

yeah, It's one thing for a 2 year old to shake the mouse cage... but a grown "man"? In my experience, if you can mistreat an animal, you can easily mistreat a human. I love introducing guys to my dog, hehe!

[powerboy]

I love introducing guys to my dog, hehe!

Whoa. You have a dog, cool. I love dogs

[Buglady]

I'd had my doubts about this guy just hearing about him, but hadn't met him. Now all my alarm bells are going off. Nightwatch, you are right, animal cruelty does often lead to other things - sometimes it just comes out of ignorance, so I'm hoping that's the case here, but I still want to push the guy away with a sharp stick.

It was pretty funny seeing the look on his face when I yelled at him though. Apparently that has not happened often enough in his life. I am happy to help him in this area of his personal growth

(I'm old, cranky, pretty well versed in psychology, and willing to call a spade a bloody shovel... if counselling psychology does not work out, I'm thinking of offering a fishbat-for-hire service).

[NightWatch]

Whoa. You have a dog, cool. I love dogs

Wanna meet my dog?

He is really cute, if ya wanna see a pic, shoot me a message

[Buglady]

I just added one of my kitties as an avatar

I'm getting a lot fonder of dogs these days too.

[nattie]

I love animals but understand the circle of life. That was just animal cruelty!

[Seshat]

Dog and two cats here.

Yes, my cats are obligate carnivores. Yes, my dog is 95% carnivore. Yes, I eat meat myself, and shamelessy, guiltlessly, provide meat for my critters.

But I buy my meat (and theirs) from RSPCA*-approved sources whenever possible. And the cats are inside at night, which is their instinctive primary hunting time.

There's a HUGE difference between feeding an obligate carnivore and intentionally mistreating animals!


(* Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, for those who needed the acronym expanded.)

[Buglady]

I like your self-help guide, Seshat!

[SilverOrb]

As the proud pet mama of 6 cuddly ratties... He's lucky I wasn't there. I carry a big purse and I aim well.

[JLRodgers]

Actually it sounds like the guy's a potential abusive man - borderline sociopath/serial killer mentality.

I'd never own an animal that relies on the death of a living creature that'd be a potential pet for another person. I own a cat. Their carnivores, but at least they make food for cats that's based on the waste and foodstuff for humans and they don't have to go out killing for their food.

[zzapp the witch]

This guy sounds like a 4-H er I once had. I raise rabbits for food and show. Show animals are bred, spoiled, and live to a ripe old age before they die of natural causes. Culls are butchered and wind up in my stew pot.

I was teaching a group of kids how to pick out animals for culling, make sure they're fed up properly, keeping the sexes separate (I have a thing where I WILL NOT butcher a pregnant female), how to set up a killing area far away and downwind from the enclosures, etc etc etc.

*slightly graphic explanation of procedure, don't read if squeamish about where your food comes from, highlight to read*

When you butcher a rabbit, you hang it down by its back legs and hit it in the back of the head with a stick. Instantaneous death. I do not like animals to suffer at all if possible.

Anyone that's heard a rabbit get attacked by a predator knows that they scream. Its a sound that creeps me out to this day. Well, I heard a rabbit screaming....off away from the group. This kid had it hanging by its back legs and was poking it to make it scream!!!! All the while, laughing. I ended the class right there, told the mother (who was just standing there watching him with a DER look on her face) that he was NOT welcome back to my home, I refused to teach him under any circumstances, and I would also be telling the Superintendant for the 4-H Small Animals about this incident. Then I asked her to leave. I think all of the other parents staring at her in shock shamed her into leaving without mouthing off too much.

I told any kids that were unsettled that we could stop the lesson and continue at a later date for them, and I could continue (after I calmed myself down) for any that wished to continue. While I excused myself inside the house to sit and drink some tea, one of the fathers took that as an opportunity to talk about the differences between being cruel to an animal, and humane killing practices. The point being that even if its going to wind up on your plate, there's absolutely no reason to terrorize the thing in the mean time.

That boy was removed from the program, and banned from coming back. I think he beats his wife now......

[Buglady]

Rabbit screams are a terrible sound. We raised them for meat when I was a kid. Dad always butchered them humanely, but once a coyote got one of the rabbits and it did scream

The more I think about this the more I'm inclined to go talk to the girl *right now* even though I am not scheduled again till Monday. While it MAY have been just ignorance on his part, I can't take the chance that he might be near doing something else...

[JustADude]

Actually it sounds like the guy's a potential abusive man - borderline sociopath/serial killer mentality.

No, I am a borderline sociopath... or rather, a person diagnosed with mild sociopathic tenancies.

All that means is that I can read people like a book if I have the relevant info on them and (this is the part that qualified me) I can set aside humanistic morality when they become complications in a situation. It doesn't make me a sadist, it doesn't make me abusive, it just means that I'm capable of being as ruthless, merciless, cold-blooded, and violent as the situation calls for and not lose a wink of sleep afterwards.

I'm inclined to believe that that guy in the OP was just a typical jerk who just doesn't think of mice as feeling creatures, while the kid from Zzapp's story sounds like a full blown sociopath who has never had, and will never have, a conscience.