I must have kicked karma's dog in my last life

[Sapphire Silk]

Of course, what are the chances the parents are going to be disputing the charges on their credit card? Will your hotel take the time to fight it? It was always hard to make extra charges stick at my hotel, management usually caved.

They're not caving over $1500. That's too much even for corporate to ignore. However, I fully expect the parents to try to fight it. They'll probably dispute the charge with the credit card company, but when the chain gives the CC company copies of the police report and FD report, the charges will be reinstated.

That's good to hear. Of course, all that can be lost with one spineless manager or corporate bigwig...

A spineless manager who caves on this ought to be fired, and probably would be. Ditto for a corporate bigwig. That's real profit being wasted in a charge like that.

The other kids were not much better. I think a strongly-worded letter to their school is in order. And that twit who kept dumping the popcorn on the floor should have been made to kneel down and pick up every single kernel.

Definitely Khiras's hotel should not rent to this coach/team again. The headaches aren't worth it.

Well, $1,500 from KhirasHY's hotel + the fire marshall's fine (figure $500 easily) + whatever the other hotel charged (and you have to figure a few comps there as well) and this could easily run to $3,000 or more.

I would hope a bill this large means Mommy and Daddy Dearest finally get junior some help, or at least some discipline.

Problem is, it won't work. The kid won't remember what he did wrong. Kids this age are like dogs; you have to correct them right then and there, or it does no good.

[raudf]

I can't wait to hear that one either.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Not much to tell, honestly. Guy did something stupid with drugs and a gun and got put in prison for at least 10 years. If he behaves... if not, might be the full term.

In high school he was the one that did things he thought was funny.. During my junior year, after the seniors had left due to graduation, it was rumored he was the one calling in the bomb threats that kept us out of class... In the rain. He also had a bad habit of doing shit to people and causing the teacher to call down the victim. It's the typical stuff, only he'd occasionally get caught.

[wolfie]

Problem is, it won't work. The kid won't remember what he did wrong. Kids this age are like dogs; you have to correct them right then and there, or it does no good.

Unfortunately in most cases of children misbehaving this badly, the parents (most likely to be in a position to correct them) don't see anything wrong with what their little darlings are doing - and if an outsider tries to correct the kids, the parents will "tear them a new one" - the person trying to correct the kids, that is, after all the kids can do no wrong.

[DGoddessChardonnay]

In high school he was the one that did things he thought was funny.. During my junior year, after the seniors had left due to graduation, it was rumored he was the one calling in the bomb threats that kept us out of class... In the rain. He also had a bad habit of doing shit to people and causing the teacher to call down the victim. It's the typical stuff, only he'd occasionally get caught.

Yeah, sounds pretty lame compared to a pair who took a vintage Eletrolux cannister vacuum and turned it into a miniature rocket booster and let loose a few at the military school across the campus.

But then what they could do with a computer . . .wrote a money transfer program and hid it inside a video game that one could use to actually transfer money with. Wiped out their disinherited uncle's bank account to the tune of $50 million - and that was just the test run.

Then they helped themselves to hiding their Grandad's money - 1.2 billion dollars (imagine 1.2 billion in 1982 dollars - not sure what that would be in today's money.) End up pissing off disinherited uncle and his terrorist cronies (along with the help of a couple of old family friends who happened to be retired spies.)

Would you like to know what they did that got them kicked out of the National Honor Society and made Harvard rescind their invitation for these two to attend college?

[greek_jester]

Would you like to know what they did that got them kicked out of the National Honor Society and made Harvard rescind their invitation for these two to attend college?

Pretty please, yes! *offers bacon cookies*

[DGoddessChardonnay]

Pretty please, yes! *offers bacon cookies*

I can explain it in one of two ways:

1) short version in the thread

2) I can post that part of the novella over in the Literary forum (the completed one was actually divided up into 3 parts but when I originally posted it on my fanfic website, I divided it up into several smaller chapters.)

[greek_jester]

I can explain it in one of two ways:

1) short version in the thread

2) I can post that part of the novella over in the Literary forum

Whichever is easiest for you, thanks

[Grendus]

Problem is, it won't work. The kid won't remember what he did wrong. Kids this age are like dogs; you have to correct them right then and there, or it does no good.

Bullshit. The kid is 12, he's old enough to start connecting the dots. Mom and dad need to sit him down, show him the bill, and tell him that he needs to pay them back for it. They'll give him a nice minimum wage for doing chores around the house, and there's no TV/Video Games/going out with friends until it's payed off or until both parents have confirmed there are no chores for him to do at the moment.

That's 413 hours of punishment for a $3000 fine. And if he doesn't like it, he's welcome to sit in his video game-less room alone until he's willing to work. I guarantee he would never pull a fire alarm again.

[Sapphire Silk]

Bullshit. The kid is 12, he's old enough to start connecting the dots. Mom and dad need to sit him down, show him the bill, and tell him that he needs to pay them back for it. They'll give him a nice minimum wage for doing chores around the house, and there's no TV/Video Games/going out with friends until it's payed off or until both parents have confirmed there are no chores for him to do at the moment.

That's 413 hours of punishment for a $3000 fine. And if he doesn't like it, he's welcome to sit in his video game-less room alone until he's willing to work. I guarantee he would never pull a fire alarm again.

I'm not so sure. More than likely he'll sulk and pitch a fit because it's "been so long" since that happened, and he won't understand why he's being punished "now."

All he'll do is resent the punishment, he won't really understand he did anything wrong. People have an amazing capacity for self justification which his parents refusal to parent has now engendered and engrained into his personality.

[eltf177]

I'm not so sure. More than likely he'll sulk and pitch a fit because it's "been so long" since that happened, and he won't understand why he's being punished "now."

All he'll do is resent the punishment, he won't really understand he did anything wrong. People have an amazing capacity for self justification which his parents refusal to parent has now engendered and engrained into his personality.

I hate to say it but I feel Sapphire Silk's right, this kid's pretty much beyond redemption at this point. The problem's festered too long...

[XCashier]

I hate to say it but I feel Sapphire Silk's right, this kid's pretty much beyond redemption at this point. The problem's festered too long...

I'm not sure. Judges are usually quite good at spelling things out for even the thickest criminal. Put the little brat before a stern, no-nonsense judge who really lays it on the line for him and we'll see how quickly this "free spirit" folds.

Of course, I could be wrong. He could have his rotten behavior hard-wired into him by now. But it can't hurt to try.

I wonder if his parents could be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor by their refusal to properly parent him? They unleashed this hellion into the world, they should have to suffer some consequences.

[KhirasHY]

I wonder if his parents could be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor by their refusal to properly parent him? They unleashed this hellion into the world, they should have to suffer some consequences.

Unfortunately not. They should, however, receive a constant boot to the head as punishment, at the very least. I also believe that their kid is beyond hope at this point...you learn a LOT of behavior that you keep for your entire life in the first dozen years of your life...and if he's not a terror, he's at least going to be a spoiled little shit in his adult existence.

I said something about him to a co-worker, only partly in jest: "He's old enough he should know better, but young enough that hitting him is a worse felony..."

[DGoddessChardonnay]

I also believe that their kid is beyond hope at this point...you learn a LOT of behavior that you keep for your entire life in the first dozen years of your life...and if he's not a terror, he's at least going to be a spoiled little shit in his adult existence.

My mom found this out the hard way when I was a teenager. She'd remarried and my stepdad had a son from a previous marriage (who is only a few weeks older than my brother) who originally lived with his mom (stepdad's ex wife #1.)

Mom and stepdad were given temporary custody of him when he was 12 1/2 after his "mother" packed what she wanted out of the house she shared with her 2nd hubby (he worked out of town during the week and she'd turn that house into a revolving door of unsavory characters, drugs, promuscious sex, you name it it went on) and left town with another guy while the stepbrother was at school.

This kid moved in with us and he was a royal PITA from the get-go. He saw how me and my brother behaved, what we had and how we were treated and he couldn't handle it - mostly b/c of the way he'd been "raised" by his mom (or should I say left to his own devices and witnessed a lot of drugs being used, orgies all the time and his Mom would be found in bed with whomever - family or not)

He would act out b/c he would want to be treated like us and be just like us (me and my brother) but b/c of his programming (his brain and the way it worked due to what he was subjected to for so long) he'd constantly cause drama in the house in the form of raiding our rooms and taking stuff (lost count of how many times my brother would come home from school and have a royal meltdown b/c something was missing and would immediately go after the stepbrother and knock him down and just beat the crap out of him - even though stepbrother was bigger or I would storm his room and start tearing into it to find what was missing from my desk and then have to have an argument over this w/Mom b/c I wasn't supposed to do that.

Didn't matter how hard Mom tried with him to reason with him, give him the same stuff me and my brother had - he didn't appreciate a damn thing she did and once got into it with her over wanting her to be his mom, he picked up the tv off the dresser (and this was a 20 inch tv - not light in the least) and tried to throw it at HER!!!

Needless to say, that tv was removed from his room and he got a smaller one. My stepdad would try discpline but it was too late for this kid - he was so screwed up and defiant - not to mention had perversions of his own (such as getting hold of my One Step camera while I was at school and using it to take photos of his private parts - outside in the back yard. Pathetic pics BTW - not much to see there, move along folks) or he'd stay out at all hours and they would have to go looking for him.

Then he disappeared the weekend after school let out for the summer - his mom called the Thursday night before and Mom allowed him the phone (it was his mom, after all and she didn't think it was okay to monitor the call) then on Sunday morning he disappeared while Mom was inside cooking breakfast. Cops were called, recent school photo given and description of what he was wearing that day - also informed of his mother's recent abandonment and her calling the house. Cops ran with that information, Mom allowed access to our phone records when ex-wife started calling the house and within a few weeks, they found out she was several hours away in Nashville TN w/the stepbrother.

Stepbrother was brought back by Mom and stepdad, ex-wife and her b/f arrested and stepbrother didn't learn a damn thing after that. He still acted out, started skipping school, hanging out with the wrong kids, etc. Finally after Mom and stepdad separated, he went back to his dad a week after Mom remarried (her 3rd ex couldn't do anything with him either and had a couple of physical altercations with him outside in full view of neighbors, who were cheering him on.)

From his dad he went back to his mom and ever since he was in and out of trouble w/the law and spent time in and out of prison. Last I heard he had been released about 4 years ago and back living with his mom (ex stepdad by that time was battling end stage cancer and was in a local hospice) and is also HIV positive on top of that (drug use and promiscuity I suspect.)

It's like I told my Mom not long ago when we got on the subject of him: it didn't matter what she did, he was already hardwired by his mom. Had stepdad and ex-wife #2 pursued custody when he was around 4 and persisted with it (they had started custody proceedings but then within a few months dropped it) he might have had a better chance at turning out halfway decent. But as it was, by the time he came to our house, it was already too late.

So yeah, I see that 12 year old becoming a member in good standing of the FFA (Future Felons of America.)

[eltf177]

Unfortunately not. They should, however, receive a constant boot to the head as punishment, at the very least. I also believe that their kid is beyond hope at this point...you learn a LOT of behavior that you keep for your entire life in the first dozen years of your life...and if he's not a terror, he's at least going to be a spoiled little shit in his adult existence.

I said something about him to a co-worker, only partly in jest: "He's old enough he should know better, but young enough that hitting him is a worse felony..."

I'd say the bill that this family got from KhirasHY's hotel (plus the bill from the fire department and the other hotel) as a result of brat's misbehavior should be a serious wake-up call for the parents. Hopefully they'll heed it...

[Seshat]

Some people are hardwired wrong from birth: they have no empathy, and no capacity for it. Some people similarly have no capacity for what I call 'civilisation': the art of living in cities/social groups.

Parents are completely innocent in these cases. No matter what the parent does, how well they parent the child, there's no help for the worst of these. Ones with less of a problem can perhaps be treated with the help of psychologists, psychiatrists, and mental therapists of various sorts. As Sherlock Holmes says, in the 'Sherlock' series, "I'm a high functioning sociopath."

There are also developmental stages where a child learns empathy, and where a child learns civilisation. Multiple stages, not just one. A child does get second and third chances to build these skills; but miss enough of them, and they have only the choices of learning them painfully in late teens/adulthood, or not learning them at all.
Some, it's possible, can only be learned at certain times. I've read that an infant, if given only the absolute minimum of touch to survive, doesn't develop much social ability if any. I don't know the truth of that, but I wouldn't be much surprised if it is true.