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It feels self indulgent to start 2 threads to whine so I'm combining today (one of the worst mornings in a long time, with something I've been meaning to post for a while.
Things that are never true
I'm sure we've all noticed that there are some things that, while theoretically true on occasions, we only hear when the SC is making it up.
I think "It's false advertising..." seems to be a common one from this board. Has anyone every heard anyone actually complain about this and be right ?
In my line of work (giving basic advice about people's rights) I hear "I know my rights" - and it is always, ALWAYS, from someone who does not in fact know their rights but has invented extra rights because they are an entitled loon and will now not listen to reason.
"I know my rights and I can't be held to a contract I went out and signed, the company has to give me everything for free"
Arggh.
Today I had a "You're not listening". These seem to be the product of SC logic (contrary to popular opinion they do use logic when it suits them) and is always used by someone who is not in fact listening to you.
I think the "thinking" (we really need a different word for the nearest SCs manage) goes something like :
I am right. I am brilliant. I could not possibly be wrong in anyway.
This person is telling me I am wrong therefore they cannot understand the situation - This person is acting on false information.
Had they listened properly they would have correct information.
They must not be listening.
Also the (not in itself sucky) "This will be an easy question" Nobody ever says that unless it's the most difficult thing I've been asked all week. I've taken to pointing this out to my customers and they always insist they'll be the exception - and always find it quite amusing when I turn out to be right.
So I was wondering what other examples people had ?
Why today sucked
I want to moan, but didn't want to start a new thread. Only a couple of sucky customers but a whole lot of
Language problem ? No - idiot problem
My first customer. Did not speak English. Explained to me that his rent assistance had stopped and that his landlord had "sent a person to the house", and then failed to understand any further questions. When I asked anything else he repeated one of those 2 facts. When I told him I wasn't understanding him, and he wasn't understanding me - and that I couldn't advise under these circumstances he claimed he understood perfectly.
Well I don't.
He spoke French so I passed him to a colleague (she's German but also speaks flawless English, great French and a bit of Spanish and Italian). It turned out his landlord had thrown him out - something rather important to mention you'd think.
Unfortunately once she solved the language barrier she hit the idiot barrier. it turned out he couldn't understand anything once he did understand the words, and half an hour later she was begging the manager saying "what on earth should I do with this guy"
The next woman was lovely.
Whah ?
The next person was also nice. His problems however were... just wierd.
He had bought vehicle insurance through a large company but via a personal contact in that company (a woman who appeared to be making fraudulent deals for people from her own country and pocketing small back handers - and who had now been sacked). He was now being asked to pay over £3000 extra for the years insurance and the company had sent debt collectors.
Best fact was that one of things she had done to get an unnaturally low insurance quote was record his address (in a poor part of a major city where rates are high) correctly but say he was parking his car each night 200 miles from his home.
The same guy also had 3 parking tickets having parked his car and come back 3 days later to find they'd put new restrictions - and a new sign next to his vehicle.
How can both happen to the same guy ?
you're not listening
Even bad customers don't normally get to me like this (I think it's anyone who argues in a way that reminds me of my mother).
This loon had signed up for a course with a bank loan to pay the course fees. The college had lied about the loan (amount of interest and when repayments would have to be made) but all the bank paperwork (which she had signed to indicate she had read and agreed with) was correct.
SC had not only been lied to by the college but by the "friend" who introduced her to the college and had claimed untruthfully to have done a course there and found work. In fact he was working on commission for the college.
SC had responded to this by making a complaint to the bank.
SC claimed to have a friend who worked for another advice agency who had promised we would sort out her problems for her.
(BG - most advice agencies would not do it for, but most do give advice on consumer law. We don't because we can't get funding for it. Because I do my job to help people I try to stretch this as much as possible).
She told me about this. As soon as I started to explain what service we could offer she started saying I hadn't let her finish her story (and then added nothing as she retold it). I explained again but said that I was going to talk to a supervisor to confirm what we were able to do, and try to get her some information about what she needed to do, and where else she could go. About 30 seconds before I left the room her partner came in and joined her.
Supervisor basically rolled her eyes and wondered why I was giving them as much help as I was.
So I go back and explain again. I explain (a) she's made the bank complaint the wrong way, and (b) any bank complaint will not succeed because the bank has done nothing wrong. I say she'll need to complain about the college. That we cannot make them give her money back. The only way to do this would be to go to court. She hasn't provided enough information for us to give any indication about her chance of success (no contract details etc)....
She again starts saying I hadn't listened. Her partner starts saying he saw me refuse to listen to her - he wasn't even there !
She keeps telling me I'm not doing my job and that as a worker at XXXX I have to do what she wants.
Every time I speak she interrupts, mostly to tell me I'm not listening.
I take a deep breath and several attempts and confirm that every piece of information (bar one minor thing) I have is correct. She still however claims I'm not listening. I apologies for the restrictions on the service and point out I am actually helping her already beyond the level I am meant to. I offer to get the supervisor if she wants confirmation that I am really not allowed to do what she wants.
She shuts up for about 30 seconds and I start giving her some advice about what she can do. Then she starts raving again - going on and on about me and now saying that she "might as well be dead" (An empty threat that always makes me want to say "OK then").
I told her I was not able to advise her. She kept claiming that they'd have got a good service from anyone else and the problem was that I was mean/unhelpful/tired etc. However they refused to let me get the supervisor.
Best
moments - she claimed to have a friend who had witnessed her being given false information. This turned out to actually be the person who lied.
She also pointed out small print on the loan form that said you could make a complaint even if you had agreed to the loan. Um, OK. But that doesn't mean your complaint will be upheld when the bank did nothing wrong. And how come you read that but not little things like the rate of interest
You know it's a bad day when this is a relief
Next client is a regular. A guy who lists his religion as football, has loud arguments with himself in the waiting room, and who claims to have an ongoing relationship with a woman he hasn't spoken to in 2 years. He may not be connected to reality but he's always nice and it's always good to help someone who really does need help.
Today, among other things, I learned he had a prior conviction for a firearms offence (or claims to) which is somewhat scary. I also learned he is carrying 3 spare bus passes in case his girl friend needs them and this is what led to him being stopped by the police, and getting charged for possession of cannabis...
And it was still a joy to spend time with him after the last client.
Things you think you'd notice
Customer (who again was very nice - just) says that in December he was given a fine for driving without a licence. Fine was meant to be £350 but they are now asking for nearly £5000. Oh - and he did have a licence.
He was actually charged with failure to have a vehicle test certificate (i.e. MOT) which meant he was also driving in breach of his licence and driving without valid insurance (as licence and insurance where invalidated) and they'd hit him with all 3 charges.
However there was also a £3000 fine for benefit fraud. Which he knew nothing about and had failed to notice on about 15 documents since December.
Wha ?
(And I believe him. I also don't think he actually committed fraud. I just don't know how he failed to read through the paperwork, which has discrepancies, as soon as they first asked for several thousand more than he was expecting).
Bonus "It's a quick question" from last week
Customer again was lovely. This appears to be a sucky government story.
The guy had married a woman from abroad, brought her to the UK and supported her financially. She'd got full citizenship but he was able to continue to support her and she never worked and neither had ever claimed benefits. Therefore she had never needed a National Insurance (social security) number.
These are issued if you are in the UK when you turn 16, or only when you start work or make a benefit claim.
He was still doing well financially and had investments. He'd seen a financial adviser and been told he could invest in her name (to use her tax free allowance - all perfectly legal and sensible). However the investment people had said she was breaking the law by not having the NINo.
Quick question - is it a legal requirement ?
Quick answer - No, but she'll need one to claim her tax allowance, and to pay tax on any taxable interest.
Which is where it got complicated. She does (practically speaking) need the number. But how does she get one ?
2 government departments give them out. One to people starting work, and one to those claiming benefit. As the benefit claimant NINo's are given by actually benefit agency staff, and as we know how they work and have had lots of dealings with them, I already know they won't do it. So, my information must be wrong - the other department must give numbers to those working or with the need to pay other tax...
You'd think.
I phoned up and they said they wouldn't give her one. They gave a number that was to the people who run both departments and I asked again.
There are only 2 ways to get a number. She can't do either. there is no third way. Yes she needs one. Yes she is absolutely doing the right thing by trying to make sure she pays taxes. No they can't help.
The government department actually described this as a "catch 22 situation". They admitted it was somewhat problematic, they offered no solution or apology or - well - anything that makes sense.
Despair
Please pity me. I am stuck between Sucky customers, sucky customer service and sucky bureaucracy. Some days the stupidity makes me want to cry.
Victoria J
Things that are never true
I'm sure we've all noticed that there are some things that, while theoretically true on occasions, we only hear when the SC is making it up.
I think "It's false advertising..." seems to be a common one from this board. Has anyone every heard anyone actually complain about this and be right ?
In my line of work (giving basic advice about people's rights) I hear "I know my rights" - and it is always, ALWAYS, from someone who does not in fact know their rights but has invented extra rights because they are an entitled loon and will now not listen to reason.
"I know my rights and I can't be held to a contract I went out and signed, the company has to give me everything for free"
Arggh.
Today I had a "You're not listening". These seem to be the product of SC logic (contrary to popular opinion they do use logic when it suits them) and is always used by someone who is not in fact listening to you.
I think the "thinking" (we really need a different word for the nearest SCs manage) goes something like :
I am right. I am brilliant. I could not possibly be wrong in anyway.
This person is telling me I am wrong therefore they cannot understand the situation - This person is acting on false information.
Had they listened properly they would have correct information.
They must not be listening.
Also the (not in itself sucky) "This will be an easy question" Nobody ever says that unless it's the most difficult thing I've been asked all week. I've taken to pointing this out to my customers and they always insist they'll be the exception - and always find it quite amusing when I turn out to be right.
So I was wondering what other examples people had ?
Why today sucked
I want to moan, but didn't want to start a new thread. Only a couple of sucky customers but a whole lot of
Language problem ? No - idiot problem
My first customer. Did not speak English. Explained to me that his rent assistance had stopped and that his landlord had "sent a person to the house", and then failed to understand any further questions. When I asked anything else he repeated one of those 2 facts. When I told him I wasn't understanding him, and he wasn't understanding me - and that I couldn't advise under these circumstances he claimed he understood perfectly.
Well I don't.
He spoke French so I passed him to a colleague (she's German but also speaks flawless English, great French and a bit of Spanish and Italian). It turned out his landlord had thrown him out - something rather important to mention you'd think.
Unfortunately once she solved the language barrier she hit the idiot barrier. it turned out he couldn't understand anything once he did understand the words, and half an hour later she was begging the manager saying "what on earth should I do with this guy"
The next woman was lovely.
Whah ?
The next person was also nice. His problems however were... just wierd.
He had bought vehicle insurance through a large company but via a personal contact in that company (a woman who appeared to be making fraudulent deals for people from her own country and pocketing small back handers - and who had now been sacked). He was now being asked to pay over £3000 extra for the years insurance and the company had sent debt collectors.
Best
fact was that one of things she had done to get an unnaturally low insurance quote was record his address (in a poor part of a major city where rates are high) correctly but say he was parking his car each night 200 miles from his home. The same guy also had 3 parking tickets having parked his car and come back 3 days later to find they'd put new restrictions - and a new sign next to his vehicle.
How can both happen to the same guy ?
you're not listening
Even bad customers don't normally get to me like this (I think it's anyone who argues in a way that reminds me of my mother).
This loon had signed up for a course with a bank loan to pay the course fees. The college had lied about the loan (amount of interest and when repayments would have to be made) but all the bank paperwork (which she had signed to indicate she had read and agreed with) was correct.
SC had not only been lied to by the college but by the "friend" who introduced her to the college and had claimed untruthfully to have done a course there and found work. In fact he was working on commission for the college.
SC had responded to this by making a complaint to the bank.
SC claimed to have a friend who worked for another advice agency who had promised we would sort out her problems for her.
(BG - most advice agencies would not do it for, but most do give advice on consumer law. We don't because we can't get funding for it. Because I do my job to help people I try to stretch this as much as possible).
She told me about this. As soon as I started to explain what service we could offer she started saying I hadn't let her finish her story (and then added nothing as she retold it). I explained again but said that I was going to talk to a supervisor to confirm what we were able to do, and try to get her some information about what she needed to do, and where else she could go. About 30 seconds before I left the room her partner came in and joined her.
Supervisor basically rolled her eyes and wondered why I was giving them as much help as I was.
So I go back and explain again. I explain (a) she's made the bank complaint the wrong way, and (b) any bank complaint will not succeed because the bank has done nothing wrong. I say she'll need to complain about the college. That we cannot make them give her money back. The only way to do this would be to go to court. She hasn't provided enough information for us to give any indication about her chance of success (no contract details etc)....
She again starts saying I hadn't listened. Her partner starts saying he saw me refuse to listen to her - he wasn't even there !
She keeps telling me I'm not doing my job and that as a worker at XXXX I have to do what she wants.
Every time I speak she interrupts, mostly to tell me I'm not listening.
I take a deep breath and several attempts and confirm that every piece of information (bar one minor thing) I have is correct. She still however claims I'm not listening. I apologies for the restrictions on the service and point out I am actually helping her already beyond the level I am meant to. I offer to get the supervisor if she wants confirmation that I am really not allowed to do what she wants.
She shuts up for about 30 seconds and I start giving her some advice about what she can do. Then she starts raving again - going on and on about me and now saying that she "might as well be dead" (An empty threat that always makes me want to say "OK then").
I told her I was not able to advise her. She kept claiming that they'd have got a good service from anyone else and the problem was that I was mean/unhelpful/tired etc. However they refused to let me get the supervisor.
Best
moments - she claimed to have a friend who had witnessed her being given false information. This turned out to actually be the person who lied. She also pointed out small print on the loan form that said you could make a complaint even if you had agreed to the loan. Um, OK. But that doesn't mean your complaint will be upheld when the bank did nothing wrong. And how come you read that but not little things like the rate of interest
You know it's a bad day when this is a relief
Next client is a regular. A guy who lists his religion as football, has loud arguments with himself in the waiting room, and who claims to have an ongoing relationship with a woman he hasn't spoken to in 2 years. He may not be connected to reality but he's always nice and it's always good to help someone who really does need help.
Today, among other things, I learned he had a prior conviction for a firearms offence (or claims to) which is somewhat scary. I also learned he is carrying 3 spare bus passes in case his girl friend needs them and this is what led to him being stopped by the police, and getting charged for possession of cannabis...
And it was still a joy to spend time with him after the last client.
Things you think you'd notice
Customer (who again was very nice - just
) says that in December he was given a fine for driving without a licence. Fine was meant to be £350 but they are now asking for nearly £5000. Oh - and he did have a licence. He was actually charged with failure to have a vehicle test certificate (i.e. MOT) which meant he was also driving in breach of his licence and driving without valid insurance (as licence and insurance where invalidated) and they'd hit him with all 3 charges.
However there was also a £3000 fine for benefit fraud. Which he knew nothing about and had failed to notice on about 15 documents since December.
Wha ?
(And I believe him. I also don't think he actually committed fraud. I just don't know how he failed to read through the paperwork, which has discrepancies, as soon as they first asked for several thousand more than he was expecting).
Bonus "It's a quick question" from last week
Customer again was lovely. This appears to be a sucky government story.
The guy had married a woman from abroad, brought her to the UK and supported her financially. She'd got full citizenship but he was able to continue to support her and she never worked and neither had ever claimed benefits. Therefore she had never needed a National Insurance (social security) number.
These are issued if you are in the UK when you turn 16, or only when you start work or make a benefit claim.
He was still doing well financially and had investments. He'd seen a financial adviser and been told he could invest in her name (to use her tax free allowance - all perfectly legal and sensible). However the investment people had said she was breaking the law by not having the NINo.
Quick question
- is it a legal requirement ?Quick answer - No, but she'll need one to claim her tax allowance, and to pay tax on any taxable interest.
Which is where it got complicated. She does (practically speaking) need the number. But how does she get one ?
2 government departments give them out. One to people starting work, and one to those claiming benefit. As the benefit claimant NINo's are given by actually benefit agency staff, and as we know how they work and have had lots of dealings with them, I already know they won't do it. So, my information must be wrong - the other department must give numbers to those working or with the need to pay other tax...
You'd think.
I phoned up and they said they wouldn't give her one. They gave a number that was to the people who run both departments and I asked again.
There are only 2 ways to get a number. She can't do either. there is no third way. Yes she needs one. Yes she is absolutely doing the right thing by trying to make sure she pays taxes. No they can't help.
The government department actually described this as a "catch 22 situation". They admitted it was somewhat problematic, they offered no solution or apology or - well - anything that makes sense.
Despair
Please pity me. I am stuck between Sucky customers, sucky customer service and sucky bureaucracy. Some days the stupidity makes me want to cry.
Victoria J
Most often, however, 'false advertising' claims are nothing more than SC's getting whiny because they're not getting the deal that they want/misread/made up.
I was too rushed to go with 2 of my colleagues to the nearest proper shopping place for lunch - but they did bring me back a Starbucks mango Frappuchino which made my day. Mmm, mango....
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