Asking for private information is illegal.

[lachesis]

...Except when it's not.

An elderly couple came in today to add their son to their accounts. Not an unusual request in most cases, but I pulled up each of the customers' portfolios in the computer and I see:

Name, address, and account number. ONLY these things. On all three of their portfolios.

No social security numbers, no phone number, no mother's maiden name... not even a date of birth!!! How the hell did they open their accounts without any of that information??? Granted one of the accounts was opened in 1988, but even then a social security number and basic contact information would have been necessary.

So I get to work collecting driver's licenses/IDs and then after updating those, I asked for each of the customers' info in turn. First the Dad, then the Mom, then finally... the Son.

Son had no problem supplying the info for his parents, but when we got to taking HIS info, he got belligerent. He said that since he had an account with us, I didn't have to record his social or DOB. Uh, yes. Yes I do.

"Article II Section C of the blahdy blah blah whatever states you cannot take my social security number as identification... yadda yadda"

No, sir, I think that law means you can't have your social on your driver's license or any other official documentation. Me asking for your social is not illegal.

Look at the sign DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YOU. It clearly states that federal law requires me to obtain this information. Some stupid jerk who used to work here failed to comply with the regulations that were in place at the time you opened the account. Getting upset with me doesn't make it any better.

Finally he complied because I told him if he wouldn't give it to me I would be forced to close his account and would not be able to add him to his parents' accounts. Not without a parting shot about the bank acting like Big Brother.

And this was just one of the problems I had with outdated information popping up like this... I just wish I had the names of these long gone colleagues from 19XX so I could internally curse them out for giving me grief in 2012.

[Geek King]

I may have to check on this, but I think if a customer does not wish to have the SSN used as the identifier for non-government business, then the onus is on the business to assign a unique identifier. A person does not have to provide a SSN to a private business, but I suppose the business could also decide not to work with them without it.

As far as I'm concerned, the horse is way out of the barn on that arguement, seeing as so much financial information is tied to the SSN, and it is stupid easy to get someone's number, if you really want it.

[Gerrinson]

Actually, I think the reason the bank requires the SSN is not only as an identifier but also for credit reporting purposes.

And, the SC was given the option to refuse. Just as the bank was within their rights to refuse his current and future business if he failed to provide the required information.

[csquared]

Not just reporting to to the credit bureaus, but also the IRS and as required by the PATRIOT Act.

[lvceline]

Yeah, where I work we ask for 2 forms of identification to set up an account, so the majority of the time it's a social security number and a date of birth, but occasionally I'll get someone who just will not give me a social, so in that case we can get a driver's license or other state issued ID instead. I'd imagine a bank though would probably require a social.

[sevendaysky]

I should point out that the level of information that banks require in order to open accounts has changed over the years. Pre-PATRIOT, etc. It's likely the parents were legacy accounts and they simply haven't modified them since they were opened and thus weren't asked for the new required information (SSN, etc) -- however, the son should have, unless you're saying the parents are 80 and the son is 60, then MAYBE. I'm only saying this so you don't kill your ex-colleagues over something that may not have been their fault. :P Another possibility is that these were acquired through several mergers/acquisitions of smaller banks, and some information was lost or was never present due to above comments on company requirements and practices.

You might suggest to your superiors that a sweep be done of records to find out if there are other accounts with missing required information, and then take steps to acquire that information in order to keep in line with federal and company requirements. If management does nothing, then it's no skin off your nose, you did what you could. As for the sucky guy... yeah, if you don't want to provide that information, that's fine, you don't have to - but the bank doesn't have to do what you want if you don't give it. Their rules, their game. Any big bank will act within the borders of the law, mostly because the Law(TM) often carries big fines.

[PepperElf]

No, sir, I think that law means you can't have your social on your driver's license or any other official documentation. Me asking for your social is not illegal.

is it?
I remember seeing some DLs in TN with the SSL on it (optional). but if it's a law, those may have been made before it was passed or something...

[dragon_wings]

is it?
I remember seeing some DLs in TN with the SSL on it (optional). but if it's a law, those may have been made before it was passed or something...

I had the option, when getting my permit or first license in TN, to put my SSN on it. I opted out and in place of my number was <SSN on file>.
My new TN DL (that I got last week) doesn't even have a place for my SSN. But it does have a place for 'DD' followed by a long string of numbers. My parents, brother, and I all figured it was the new national ID number but none of us were sure.

[Jester]

Many people are under this impression.

First of all, when Social Security was first introduced, it was stated that SS numbers would NOT be used as identity numbers. That was back in the Thirties. I think we all know that things turned out quite differently than what the government said it would. Yes, I know--shocking.

Also, it is NOT illegal to ASK for information, even private information. Privacy laws prevent companies and schools from GIVING OUT private information of clients/students/employees to unauthorized people, but it is not illegal to ASK. It may, however, be illegal to REQUIRE said information in certain instances. (I am not clear on this aspect, as I am not a lawyer, and do not tap dance on a lawyer's face on tv.)

[Becks]

do not tap dance on a lawyer's face on tv

Why not? *pout*

[Reyneth]

I work at a car insurance company and was helping another group review claims for the next steps a while ago. One that I ran into was unusual - our customer *refused* to give anything more than her claim number and name any time we talked to her. She calls, a representative asks for DOB and she release a violent verbal tirade how we were disrespecting her privacy etc.

Company policy is we don't discuss a claim unless our customer verifies primary info (DOB). She got to the point where she was threatening physical violence against the representatives. Just reading the summaries in the notes was horrifying. I still can't believe why we paid her claim - one of the primary things a person needs to do is cooperate with their insurance company, and she wasn't by any stretch of the imagination. So glad I didn't have to deal with her directly!

[EricKei]

I guess the SSN thing must vary by state. My most recent license, less than a year old, has an (empty) slot for a Social. They asked me my preference when I renewed it.

[Jester]

Why not? *pout*

Well, you mean besides the very obvious videotaped evidence it would leave behind?

[Aethian]

I don't think Michigan has any place for SS number and I don't ever remember seeing it when I had a state id either.

[Becks]

Well, you mean besides the very obvious videotaped evidence it would leave behind?

Yes, besides *that*.