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Going for an interview? -- Ten Unmistakable SIgns of a Bad Place to Work

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  • Going for an interview? -- Ten Unmistakable SIgns of a Bad Place to Work

    Courtesy of Forbes.

    http://www3.forbes.com/leadership/te...6&kwp_1=307898
    "For a musician, the SNES sound engine is like using Crayola Crayons. Nobuo Uematsu used Crayola Crayons to paint the Sistine Chapel." - Jeremy Jahns (re: "Dancing Mad")
    "The difference between an amateur and a master is that the master has failed way more times." - JoCat
    "Thinking is difficult, therefore let the herd pronounce judgment!" ~ Carl Jung
    "There's burning bridges, and then there's the lake just to fill it with gasoline." - Wiccy, reddit
    "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
    "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)
    Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
    "Our psychic powers only work if the customer has a mind to read." - me

  • #2
    a couple of the "red flags" are no such thing- one being that if you can't read the employee handbook before accepting a job offer, to walk away. um, i'm not sure it'd be a dealbreaker. another is if there is a progressive discipline policy to walk away- a progressive discipline policy si usualyl your only protection against being fired arbitrarily.
    Dictated hours- again, why is the employee handbook spelling out how many hours you should expect to work a bad thing?
    Formal performance Management- this sounds like "if there is a way to check you are doing your job, walk away"


    in short, some god tips, but some of the list comes off as the person who drew it up being something of a prima donna.

    Comment


    • #3
      And Forbes hates people who aren't willing to trust their ads to not be flashing/noisy/malware-ridden, so those of us who choose to protect our computers with ad-blocking are not wanted there.
      "Crazy may always be open for business, but on the full moon, it has buy one get one free specials." - WishfulSpirit

      "Sometimes customers remind me of zombies, but I'm pretty sure that zombies are smarter." - MelindaJoy77

      Comment


      • #4
        to be fair they did say if you are expected to sign the handbook to adhire to it to the letter then its like saying you have no chance to read and review your contract if they dont let you look over it before your hired.

        Comment


        • #5
          A couple of those are okay, but lots of that list is horribly outdated and flat out wrong. I don't think I've ever ENCOUNTERED an employer that offers 'casual time'. And the no references thing is probably because (in the U.S. anyhow), former employers legally CANNOT do anything besides verify dates a former employee worked for them.
          You're only delaying the inevitable, you run at your own expense. The repo man gets paid to chase you. ~Argabarga

          Comment


          • #6
            Not all of these are dealbreakers in and of themselves, definitely; I just wanted to see what you guys thought.

            The handbook thing, though -- Yeah, I'd call that a dealbreaker. It's a contract, and accepting a contract you haven't signed is a bad idea. If they try to nudge you into signing on without having been given a day or three to go over it, that's incredibly suspicious.

            On the payroll deductions thing -- I've been screwed over to the tune of several thousand dollars before because of this, when I was working in a state where taking out non-tax deductions that the employee has not explicitly agreed to in writing is illegal. In my case, boss sent me to a big class where a laptop was required, I didn't own one, and we didn't have a loaner, so he ordered me one which was to be used as my main office computer going forward (and it was). When I got back from the class, he started taking money out of my paychecks -- no warning, no description, and "I don't want to talk about this" when I complained -- to pay for it. In my last year, he somehow figured out how to take out several THOUSAND from my checks over a period of several months (basically by fudging the math on my commissions) to that I could "repay" him....for a set of expensive tools that some of his illegal construction workers had stolen from a worksite. I wasn't a guard there, he just had me watching phones in that office during construction. Took me ages to figure out that he had done it, and it had the same result -- "I don't want to be bothered with this." I was never able to get a lawyer interested in this or any other pay-related shenanigans, unfortunately.

            The hours thing did kinda stick out to me, as I would never expect ANY salaried position to be less than 50 hours/week anyway. I think perhaps their issue was with formally mandating them, rather than assuming you'll end up with that many, as it suggests that someone working under the listed amount could get their pay docked (instead of only docking for dropping below 40).

            Kittish - On the references -- I think they're talking about things such as letters of recommendation written by former bosses. Those ARE allowed; when contacting HR/the company itself, what you said is 100% accurate.

            Most of the rest is simply poor corporate culture.

            Seanette - I use NoScript and it lets me through just fine, with no external ads. Odd.
            "For a musician, the SNES sound engine is like using Crayola Crayons. Nobuo Uematsu used Crayola Crayons to paint the Sistine Chapel." - Jeremy Jahns (re: "Dancing Mad")
            "The difference between an amateur and a master is that the master has failed way more times." - JoCat
            "Thinking is difficult, therefore let the herd pronounce judgment!" ~ Carl Jung
            "There's burning bridges, and then there's the lake just to fill it with gasoline." - Wiccy, reddit
            "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
            "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)
            Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
            "Our psychic powers only work if the customer has a mind to read." - me

            Comment


            • #7
              Casual time does sound weird. Maybe they're talking about flex time? Some of these had me laughing at how out of touch the office world is with the wage slave world. Raise your hand if you even GET paid sick time? Yep, that's what I thought.
              "I try to be curious about everything, even things that don't interest me." -Alex Trebek

              Comment


              • #8
                Quoth WishfulSpirit View Post
                Raise your hand if you even GET paid sick time? Yep, that's what I thought.
                Well, I get where you're coming from, but paid sick time is surprisingly common in the corporate "office" environment.

                I had a position that not only had "standard" holidays (New Years, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, etc...), but also gave us 360 hours (yes, hours) of Paid Time Off, in addition to sick time and "personal" time. That was the maximum, and we had to accrue it, but still.

                The company I work for now isn't as generous with the PTO, but we still get holidays, paid sick time, and some personal days.

                So yes, there is a disconnect. For sure. Whether that's good or bad, I think, is a discussion best left to Fratching.
                Skilled programmers aren't cheap. Cheap programmers aren't skilled.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I feel like this list was written for office workers. No way I would have worked at any of my retail/customer service/factory jobs if I had followed this list.

                  My current job is almost all on call and has no guaranteed hours, if you get a shift you will be paid for 2 hours plus your tips and you will get 1 shift a week. That's all the certainty they will give you. Senior staff will get the best shifts and you either hold out until enough of them leave that you move up the ranks or you find a job elsewhere.
                  I wasnt put on this earth to make you feel like a man ~ Mary Bertone

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Quoth WishfulSpirit View Post
                    Raise your hand if you even GET paid sick time? Yep, that's what I thought.
                    Personal time at the swamp went away years ago because bad economy. I used to get a week of personal time in addition to vacation time.

                    Actually, personal time went away before the economy really went downhill. So personal time went away because board of directors wants more money.
                    Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

                    "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Quoth Kiwi View Post
                      I feel like this list was written for office workers. No way I would have worked at any of my retail/customer service/factory jobs if I had followed this list.
                      Well, if there's one thing we have learned from reading CS, it's that most retail establishments are Bad Places to Work...
                      “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.
                      One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
                      The other, of course, involves orcs." -- John Rogers

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Quoth WishfulSpirit View Post
                        Raise your hand if you even GET paid sick time?
                        *raises hand for the night job*

                        Arby's, however, is run by nut muffins.
                        Unseen but seeing
                        oh dear, now they're masquerading as sane-KiaKat
                        There isn't enough interpretive dance in the workplace these days-Irv
                        3rd shift needs love, too
                        RIP, mo bhrionglóid

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Massachusetts has mandatory sick time for all employees - 6 days per year for full time and prorated amounts for part time staff.

                          Also, my current employer gives us personal days in addition to the vacation & sick time.

                          That said, this hands-down the best employer I've ever had in this county.

                          I will note that one prior employer did offer 13 paid holidays my first year with them. That's right, a baker's dozen. The one and only place I've seen where Arbor Day was a paid holiday. Of course, if you were Jewish, one of your paid holidays was Hannukah. All 8 days of it. Everyone else only got Christmas.

                          A salaried worker should be expected to work 40 hours per week, with occasionally more as the business needs, because the salary is based on a 40 hour week. If you're routinely working 45, 50, 55+ hours per week, then either your work needs to be reallocated to take some of the load off or you need a raise.

                          I'm on salary, and in the last 2 years, I've wound up spending multiple months covering 2 full time positions. I did not get a raise, but I did get a thank you at the end of each year and $XXXX bonus that was the equivalent of a $1.50/hr raise for the time in which was I was overworked. For a temporary situation, that is some nice recognition.

                          The salaried staff on my team are currently under a directive to work only 40 hours per week. If we can't finish our work in that period of time, then our workload will be revised and tasks reassigned until everyone can be done in 40 hours or less every week.

                          Did I mention my company is pretty fantasgreat?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            At my current employer, we get 5 sick days a year and up to 150 hours of vacation pay (accrued on a weekly basis, how much per week depends on how long you've been with them) along with 9 paid holidays a year. We get the usual major holidays (Memorial, 4th of July, Labor and so on) along with Presidents Day and Good Friday but then the factory to moved to RI and we swapped those two for Victory day ("Victory over Japan Day" for the politically incorrect) and Columbus Day as paid holidays. You get some odd looks when you tell people why you're not working on those 2 days...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Quoth Kittish View Post
                              A couple of those are okay, but lots of that list is horribly outdated and flat out wrong. I don't think I've ever ENCOUNTERED an employer that offers 'casual time'. And the no references thing is probably because (in the U.S. anyhow), former employers legally CANNOT do anything besides verify dates a former employee worked for them.
                              My employer offers 'casual time', in a sense. We get 3 personal days every year, that we can schedule as we please or use last minute. Also, if a true emergency occurs and there's no allotment or we've used them all, we can just ask for time off without pay.

                              That said, I think that list was rather dumb. The progressive discipline, in particular, works well in a lot of fields. As a call centre agent, tardiness is a sin and we have a codified process for it. Absenteeism too. As for the yardsticks... that depends a lot on the job you do and how crazy management is into it. It can quickly become micromanaging. However, they have to at least keep some eye on us because as we all know, our coworkers can be lazy assholes.

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