Ok, for all of you who know more about comics/super heroes than I do...

[lordlundar]

I don't consider the Hulk to be a superhero. He's an anti-villain, which is not quite the same thing. Bruce Banner is actually a bit of a nutcase in the comics. The idea is based on Dr Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde.

Any good the Hulk does is purely by accident. It is very difficult to control the Hulk or use him for positive ends. Eventually, some of the things the Hulk did, with Banner in full control, made him irredeemable, especially in the World War Hulk storyline.

That depends on who writes him. For example, in the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Avengers: Assemble cartoons As well as Agents of S.M.A.S.H. (as well as the tail end of the Avengers Movie), Hulk was written as fully in control of his rage and very capable of doing the right thing. It just happens that city blocks tend to be leveled in the process. The WWH storyline is derivative of the Ultimates Hulk, where he (and Banner) were already on the "kill on sight" list long before the events.

[Jay 2K Winger]

That depends on who writes him. For example, in the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Avengers: Assemble cartoons As well as Agents of S.M.A.S.H. (as well as the tail end of the Avengers Movie), Hulk was written as fully in control of his rage and very capable of doing the right thing. It just happens that city blocks tend to be leveled in the process. The WWH storyline is derivative of the Ultimates Hulk, where he (and Banner) were already on the "kill on sight" list long before the events.

Ultimates Hulk and the storyline of the first Ultimates TPB is still one of my favorites. Ulti-Hulk is more like Gray Hulk (uses proper grammar, untapped id) than Green Hulk (savage untapped rage) and just the way he almost effortlessly makes his way through the entire Ultimates team until he's taken down. The fact that Ulti-Cap isn't afraid to be mean as hell is a plus, as evidenced by this exchange, after Ulti-Hulk is stopped-- (spoilered)

[(Banner is babbling apologies and asking forgiveness.)
Cap: Come with me, Bruce, we'll get that cut on your cheek looked at.
Banner: But I haven't got a cut on my--
[Cap kicks him in the face, knocking him out]
Cap: Now you do.]

[SmivMoc]

If we're going to split hairs like that, then Green Lantern isn't a super-hero either, he's a Space Cop.

[Jester]

My definition of a "superhero" is someone
Who goes to extraordinary lengths to do right.
Super powers or no.

Holy shit! I'm a superhero!

For reference, I just watched Avengers Confidential: Black Widow & Punisher, and Black Widow was specifically referred to as a "superhero" by one of the characters, but obviously of nowhere near the level of the heavy hitters like Iron Man or Thor since she has no powers.

By the "has super powers" definition of superhero, Iron Man is clearly NOT a superhero. Just a rich guy in a tin suit. Admittedly a badass tin suit, but the powers still come from the costume, not the person.

The Batman is not a superhero for a couple of reasons; one he is not super powered, and two his arrogance undermines much of the good he tries to do. He leaves a trail of human wreckage in his wake.

No super powers?
Arrogant?
Undermines good?
Leaves a trail of human wreckage?

Holy crap! The Psycho Ex is Batman!

[dalesys]

No super powers?
Arrogant?
Undermines good?
Leaves a trail of human wreckage?

Holy crap! The Psycho Ex is Batman!

We'll buy "Ba-ats, ma-an!"

[Gravekeeper]

Well, Bats was originally a mystery man / masked vigilante. But I guess that term fell out of favour because of congress freaking out over comic violence. So superheroes it is. ( DC has "super heroes" trademarked. Plural with a space. ;p ).

Also, I would say that Batman is an anti-hero to be honest. Specifically because of that trail of human misery he tends to leave behind him and that whole likely suffering from any number of mental disorders thing. He's at odds all the time with Superman due to the fact he's essentially Superman's opposite in terms of methods, morals and motivations.

As for Iron Man, he's technically a cyborg when you get down to it and has essentially given himself superhuman powers in some cases. Though he's very similar in base template to Batman. Genius, rich, inventor, etc.

In fact whenever Batman gets outclassed, he just does the same thing as Iron Man and builds battle armour and giant robots and shit. They both keep a variety of situation specific suits and what not.

One should also look into the Bats v. Supes fight from the "Hush" story arc. Not only is it a good read, but Superman was not particularly holding back, as he was under the influence of Poison Ivy.

Supes was holding back. Batman even specifically says that Superman could smear him instantly at any time during the fight but doesn't because he's too goody goody. Also, Batman had a kryptonite ring. That Supes gave him prior in case Batman ever needed to kill him.

With the Dark Knight when they fought, Superman was hit by an a-bomb, and a kryptonite arrow ( from Green Arrow no less ), AND Batman had powered armour.

Superman has actually done this more than a few times in the comics. Provided Batman with kyrptonite as a fail safe should Batman ever need to kill him if he loses his mind or gets controlled or whatever. There's always a series of handicaps imposed by the writers to let Batman win when the topic comes up.

Since, otherwise, Superman would just snap him like a twig. >.>

Even Green Lantern can use his ring to create kryptonite radiation. Just in case the writers ever need Superman to get his ass kicked by people that can't normally take him on.

[Tama]

Oh, is THAT who the old fart with the bow and arrows was? I didn't know.

[dalesys]

...Since, otherwise, Superman would just snap him like a twig. >.>...

Has vision of Batman's head being blown off ala "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex".

[Mytical]

Hmm this is an interesting question. After all Lex Luthor is considered a supervillian, and all he has is his intellect. Which although supposedly greater then batman's intellect, if he can be called a supervillian then Batman can be called a super hero. Heck if you watch Doom (not the movie with 'The Rock' in it, the one with the JLA in it)

Spoilers

Batman's plan takes out the entire JLA, even though somebody else used the plan

So Batman's intelligence is close to Lex Luthor's at least.

[lordlundar]

Doom is actually based on JLA: Tower of Babel and is fairly out of context. In ToB, Batman's contingency plans were spawned from a rampant paranoia that came to a head. After the incident happened, the league opted to vote to expel Batman from the league to a lack of trust. Doom never dealt with this apart from a few lines in the watchtower and there was no indication of the paranoia that was in Tower. In fact, in other incidents of Batman having contingencies for the league, they were generally accepted because Batman already to figure out a plan to neutralize a member on the fly and it was considered that having the plans was a good idea.

All of that aside, Batman is not as intelligent as Lex Luthor, but his focus is as a detective. He's much mor observant and analytical, but does lack the book smarts and technical knowledge Luthor has. In fact, if Luthor had focused his skills in the same way Batman had, Luthor probably would have brought down Superman easily. The problem is every time he focuses on destroying Superman he tends to go insane and exposes a weakness that Superman can exploit. And let's face facts here, those weaknesses are easy to spot. Superman isn't the brightest bulb out there.

[TheSHAD0W]

Batman actually does have a superpower. It's an Intelligence Drain, only vs the Justice League of America. Haven't you ever noticed how stupid Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and the rest get around Batman?

Well, that explains... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW21vt65dj8

[Jay 2K Winger]

All of that aside, Batman is not as intelligent as Lex Luthor, but his focus is as a detective. He's much mor observant and analytical, but does lack the book smarts and technical knowledge Luthor has. In fact, if Luthor had focused his skills in the same way Batman had, Luthor probably would have brought down Superman easily. The problem is every time he focuses on destroying Superman he tends to go insane and exposes a weakness that Superman can exploit. And let's face facts here, those weaknesses are easy to spot. Superman isn't the brightest bulb out there.

Luthor's problem isn't that he goes insane, it's that he absolutely must stamp his name on his ploys to destroy or discredit or defeat Superman, because he wants the credit. He wants it known that it was Humanity (i.e. Luthor) that defeated "the alien."

Granted, Luthor is insane, or at the very least very sociopathic. Hell, he could easily prove that Humanity/Earth doesn't need Superman to solve its problems, just by devoting all of his resources to feeding the world, curing cancer, or brokering world peace. It's just that Luthor is consumed with getting rid of "the alien." Superman's even called him out on it: "You've spent so much time and money fighting me, but it makes me wonder... Where's the cancer cure, Lex?"

[Tama]

Al and I spent a lot of time joking about a Superman story where Lex Luthor ends up being Superman's ancestor.

We just imagined Lex Luthor's face and what he'd say...

"Well of COURSE *I* would be his ancestor! "

/threadjack

[DaDairyDruid]

You've obviously never read Superman: Red Son(?) the Elseworlds tale where Superman lands in Russia instead of the US

[Sapphire Silk]

Hmm this is an interesting question. After all Lex Luthor is considered a supervillian, and all he has is his intellect. Which although supposedly greater then batman's intellect, if he can be called a supervillian then Batman can be called a super hero. Heck if you watch Doom (not the movie with 'The Rock' in it, the one with the JLA in it)

Spoilers

Batman's plan takes out the entire JLA, even though somebody else used the plan

That story did actually appear in comics, JLA Tower of Babel, and the consequences of that story also led directly into the Identity Crisis story line. One of the few times where actions have long term repercussions on everyone involved.

Spoiler: especially given that Max Lord eventually takes over Batman's followup project and kills Ted Kord in the process.

So Batman's intelligence is close to Lex Luthor's at least.

Lex Luthor is smarter. Lex has a Level 12 intelligence in the DC Universe. Only Brainiac 5 matches him. Most average humans have a level 6 intelligence.

However, intelligence and wisdom are not the same thing. Lex often lets his ego undermine him.

However, Lex has gone toe to toe with the JLA on more than one occasion. He built himself a set of power armor to do it. The armor was written out after Crisis on Infinite Earths, and written back in for Final Crisis.

All of that aside, Batman is not as intelligent as Lex Luthor, but his focus is as a detective. He's much mor observant and analytical, but does lack the book smarts and technical knowledge Luthor has. In fact, if Luthor had focused his skills in the same way Batman had, Luthor probably would have brought down Superman easily. The problem is every time he focuses on destroying Superman he tends to go insane and exposes a weakness that Superman can exploit. And let's face facts here, those weaknesses are easy to spot. Superman isn't the brightest bulb out there.

I agree Bats is not as smart as Lex, but he's not that far behind. Luthor's ego is often what undoes him, but Superman is a pretty intelligent guy himself. Remember, he supports himself as a reporter. That means he is well educated, and has to be able to put facts together to see the big picture of a puzzle. In fact, he has quite a few contacts in all levels of society who feed him information for his stories. He can actually do quite a bit of the analytical things Batman can do, but lacks the resources for Batman's sophisticated toys.

What hampers Superman are his values. Well, Pre New 52, anyway. Superman's values create ethical condundrums that prevent him from taking the direct path to solving problems. What's interesting about a Superman story is not how he eventually solves the problem, but why it takes him so long to get there.

Unfortunately that makes him very hard to write for, especially when he's got four books every month (most characters only have 1). IMHO, the New 52 was created specifically because the writers needed new ways to write for Superman, and no one wanted to take off pressure by reducing the number of books per month he stars in.