Damn Fake Veterans!

[downforit2008]

I am a veteran of the U.S. Army, and yet, I never came home feeling like I was entitled to store discounts, or wanting to pitch a fit if I didn't get one and flashing my military I.D. everywhere. Hell, on Veteran's Day a couple years back, when a local restaurant was offering free pancakes to veterans for their service, I didn't even get one.

I was too busy working my ass off on a 10-hour Retail shift. And when I heard about the free pancakes, I didn't really give a crap either because I brought my own homemade lunch from home. I guess that REAL veterans don't prefer to bring up their status whenever they walk into a public setting, or wanting some special entitled privileges because of it. For me, it's all in the past, and I look forward to the future.

[XCashier]

I did 6 years in the Navy, so since I didn't retire, I don't have a picture ID, and I have been told MANY times that my DD214 papers (Honorable Discharge) don't count. So because I'm no longer in, but didn't go a full 20, somehow that doesn't qualify me as a Vet. I keep track of those places and just don't give them my money.

Won't the VA get you a card? Also, AFAIK, some states are putting veteran status on drivers licenses now.

Frankly, I'm a little shocked that your Honorable Discharge papers don't count. My store offers the discount, and we take anything that looks properly military. I've seen everything from decades-old, crumbling discharge papers to brand new plastic cards.

[emax4]

Doesn't sound military to me, but people are strange. I'd pull the rank and name badge tapes off if it was me.

Its too bad the OP didn't see any real veterans around so he or she could look at the fake ID. As a veteran and knowing lots of veterans who actually served and got shot at and stuff...that ID would have been burned as fast as the jerk probably burned his draft card. What's he going to do when a one legged woman gives him a smack down with her cane! (Yes, I did see that once. It was over a 2 dollar discount and was totally awesome.)

I have seen them, and recognized the various cards we do and do not accept per corporate guidelines. Even if a vet doesn't have the proper ID I ask if they have our store credit card, as that would give them at least a 5% discount. The guy was just a jerk though. I have already told the head cashiers that I am refusing service and/or jacking up the prices for him if I check him out again.

[MadMike]

I guess that REAL veterans don't prefer to bring up their status whenever they walk into a public setting, or wanting some special entitled privileges because of it. For me, it's all in the past, and I look forward to the future.

One of my friends feels the same way. He caught the tail end of Vietnam, and only because he lied about his age when he joined. I'm sure it's not so easy to do that now.

A few months ago, I went to a concert with him and his wife. Five Finger Death Punch was the headliner. For anyone who doesn't know, they do a cover of the song Bad Company, as their salute to the military. When the did this song in concert last time, they asked all members of the military -- currently active or not -- to stand up. My friend didn't want to make a big deal of it, and wasn't going to stand up until his wife told him to.

[Barracuda]

What rank was he claiming to be? It's a federal offense to falsely claim to be a military officer if you are not.

[Food Lady]

When someone tells me that "well they did it for me before" I tell them " Thank you for reporting this, can you tell me who it was and would you like to speak to the manager so the person can be retrained or disaplined". That shuts them right up

That's the kind of thing I say.

[wolfie]

I am 150% sure they are NEVER allowed to even acknowledge that their ID badge exists, let alone show it to some random cashier.

Is it wrong I am hoping this guy works at Area 51 and that this incident gets back to the commander? No, that would be wrong, people have disappeared for that type of thing.

Yes, it would definitely be wrong to hope for a situation where the innocent cashier would be disappeared for having seen an ID they're not supposed to know exists.

Just curious, but why couldn't the military hide things by giving people working there a SECOND ID showing them working at an acknowledged base nearby? Need to show ID on-base? Show the secret one. Need to show ID anywhere else? Show the "cover" one.

It's technically unlawful for a civilian to wear any part of a military uniform in public.

That being said, everyone does it and no one gets prosecuted for it unless they are actively impersonating an active duty military member.

So it's technically illegal to wear a pair of army boots purchased from a surplus store? Good to know that nobody actually gets prosecuted simply for buying boots that Sam Vimes would approve of (good quality and cheap).

[Jay 2K Winger]

Just curious, but why couldn't the military hide things by giving people working there a SECOND ID showing them working at an acknowledged base nearby? Need to show ID on-base? Show the secret one. Need to show ID anywhere else? Show the "cover" one.

Probably because the facility is "top secret" and the people who work there don't acknowledge they work there outside of the facility. Being on a government contract myself, I know something about this. There are three "levels" of contract secrecy.

Level 0 - "My name is [Name], and I work for [Whomever]."
Level 1 - "My name is [Name], and I'm on a government contract."
Level 2 - "My name is [Name]."

Area 51 is almost certainly a "level 2" facility.

[wolfie]

Probably because the facility is "top secret" and the people who work there don't acknowledge they work there outside of the facility.

That's why the second ID, showing them working at a "cover" base (for Area 51, Nellis AFB would be a good one - practically next door). Its existence is well-known, and there are lots of people working there doing (to an outsider) boring jobs. Cooks in the mess hall, "grapes" refueling planes, plumbers, etc. To an outsider, "I work at Nellis AFB" would be completely plausible, and they could have a "cover" job in case someone got nosy (clamming up could arouse suspicion on the part of the nosy guy - on the other hand, being able to pass themselves off as a maintenance technician for the M61 20mm cannon would probably bore the nosy person into going away, and wouldn't suggest that they knew anything classified).

With electronically-controlled locks, you wouldn't even need 2 IDs. Just have one that (visually) is for Nellis, but the coding on the magnetic stripe/chip would actually be for Area 51.

[emax4]

But working for the government is not working for the military, which is why we give a current military discount (those currently serving) and a veterans discount (ID showing they have served or a VA card of two different types).

[BearLeeBadenaugh]

...

So it's technically illegal to wear a pair of army boots purchased from a surplus store? Good to know that nobody actually gets prosecuted simply for buying boots that Sam Vimes would approve of (good quality and cheap).

It's not against the law to wear military surplus, the laws regarding uniforms pertain to specific distinctive items, such as insignia, badges, service medals, and the like. It's probably best to just link regs here.

Army Regulation 670-1, paragraph 1-4 states:

d. In accordance with chapter 45, section 771, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 771), no person except a member of the U.S. Army may wear the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform of the U.S. Army unless otherwise authorized by law. Additionally, no person except a member of the U.S. Army may wear a uniform, any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the U.S. Army uniform. This includes the distinctive uniforms and uniform items listed in paragraph 1–12 of this regulation. Paragraph 1–12 goes on to define "Distinctive uniforms and uniform items:"

a. The following uniform items are distinctive and will not be sold to or worn by unauthorized personnel:

(1) All Army headgear, when worn with insignia.
(2) Badges and tabs (identification, marksmanship, combat, and special skill).
(3) Uniform buttons (U.S. Army or Corps of Engineers).
(4) Decorations, service medals, service and training ribbons, and other awards and their appurtenances.
(5) Insignia of any design or color that the Army has adopted.



You'll find that it's relatively hard to find a "real" uniform at a military surplus store. Tons upon tons of fatigues, but fatigues are just clothing without the rank markings and other "distinctive items" From my understanding,(never been military, but family & friends have been) when the military refers to a uniform they're almost always talking about the dress uniform.



There's quite a few different levels, per say, when it comes to falsely claiming military service.

First off would be just claiming to have been military without fraudulent intent or advanced awards. Not sure if this is still an unenforceable bit protected under free speech or not. Still kinda slimy, imho, but they're not getting any "thing of value"

Next off, claiming to have been military and receiving some sort of benefit for it. VA benefits, a free pancake, 10% off your ice cream cone, etc, money doesn't matter, it has value.

Title 18 USC Sec. 912. Officer or employee of the United States
Whoever falsely assumes or pretends to be an officer or employee acting under the authority of the United States or any department, agency or officer thereof, and acts as such, or in such pretended character demands or obtains any money, paper, document, or thing of value, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Regular charges can also be filed, as an example, jon wade short impersonated an officer and in addition to his charges under sec 912 he was charged with fraud under sec 1343 Fraud by wire, radio or television.

There's also another level, the stolen valor act of 2013 that deals specifically with fraudulent representations about having received military awards, decorations, or medals.

Well, there's my google-fu for the day, lol.

[Tyg3rW01f]

When someone tells me that "well they did it for me before" I tell them "Thank you for reporting this, can you tell me who it was and would you like to speak to the manager so the person can be retrained or disciplined".

I NEED TO WRITE THIS DOWN!!!

[SmivMoc]

This subject came up in an unrelated chatroom once, and the guy who was an actual vet said the easiest way to bust a faker is ask them what unit they served with.

[Lovecats]

This subject came up in an unrelated chatroom once, and the guy who was an actual vet said the easiest way to bust a faker is ask them what unit they served with.

That wouldn't work for me. I was in the AF and got out 40 yrs ago and couldn't tell you what squadron I was in. I can tell you where I was stationed but that's pretty much it.

[wolfie]

It's not against the law to wear military surplus, the laws regarding uniforms pertain to specific distinctive items, such as insignia, badges, service medals, and the like. It's probably best to just link regs here.

I guess that some cases that are technically illegal get a pass, such as veterans wearing their uniform in a Veteran's Day parade, or someone wearing a uniform that's so non-current that there's no way it could be mistaken for a current uniform (i.e. Civil War re-enactors). On the other hand, roughly 50% of Civil War re-enactors would be wearing the most recent uniform authorized by the country in question, but I'm sure U.S. authorities wouldn't prosecute someone for wearing the Confederate uniform under false pretenses.