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How silly of me to think my time was worth anything!

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  • #16
    Quoth AccountingDrone View Post
    I always liked the actual painting part, I never liked the scraping and prepping. Well, spackling can be fun
    Me too. Unfortunately I find there's often too little of the first one and too much of the second.

    Quoth Mr Hero View Post
    He expects you to "hook him up" since you're such good friends. Somehow I don't think friends go back on agreeing to pay the mutually agreed amount for the labor.

    I'm curious. You mentioned a system you use to reduce strained and ruined relationships for this kind of thing. Is this something you're willing to share?
    Sure, it's nothing too fancy. Basically I insist on a written agreement upfront outlining everything that is to be done and who is paying for what. BOTH parties get a copy of this, that way no one can try to screw over the other with regards to pricing.

    I explain to whoever I will be working for what my conditions are and what my expectations of them is. I tell them that even though we are friends and/or family, for the duration of this job they are, in effect, my employer and I expect them to treat me fairly and with respect.

    And also as I said in the OP, I issue invoices at the end of the job and keep records of those. If you have me do a fair bit of work for you (which I can always tell by looking at the receipts if not by memory) than I'm open to offering discounts and other deals if I feel like it.

    The overall idea is to get everything in writing and keep things as simple as possible to limit the chances of confusion or misunderstandings for either of us.

    I am also usually insistent on purchasing my own supplies as much as possible. I prefer to use products I am familiar and comfortable with rather than taking my chances on whatever value brand primer a customer may want to supply me with.
    I try to be as reasonable as possible in my supply estimates and I let people know up front that I use decent quality products, not the most expensive but not bottom of the barrel either.

    Sometimes, since I can obviously be VERY flexible on labor cost, I will determine my labor charge based on the economic situation of the person I'm helping. If they are pressed for cash, I might offer something very low like $25 OR allow them to pay in installments. My labor rates are usually so low most people are happy to pay them in lieu of hiring a pro.

    And honestly, if this friend had sprung for some food and liquor as a "thank you", I probably would have discounted his labor charge or maybe told him we could call it even. But he never offered even that.
    Last edited by CrazedClerkthe2nd; 07-16-2012, 10:54 PM.
    "If we refund your money, give you a free replacement and shoot the manager, then will you be happy?" - sign seen in a restaurant

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    • #17
      At first, I thought it was $60 per hour, so $600 which I felt wasn't bad. But $60 total, is damm good. I would pay that in a second to paint my living room.

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      • #18
        Quoth SkullBash View Post

        some folks just look for the miles out of any inches you give them.

        Yep, that's what led to one guy at our apartment complex a few years ago putting a bumper sticker on his pickup - "Yes, this is my truck. No, I will not help you move"

        Madness takes it's toll....
        Please have exact change ready.

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        • #19
          Some years ago, my brother had a really good friend named Rich. We had gotten a notice from the city saying we needed to paint the trim on our house (the old house in the old neighborhood). While talking about it one day, Rich said, hey, I'll do that for ya. I offered to pay him. He wouldn't take the money. He was that kind of guy.

          He brought his own ladder, we bought the paint, and he painted all the trim, including going up about 40 ft on that ladder (made me dizzy watching him). I bought him dinner. That's all he would take. Sad to say, he died a few years ago (never was in very good health to begin with). I like to think he and my brother met up again on the Other Side.
          When you start at zero, everything's progress.

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          • #20
            What is the profession of the individual who so seriously undervalued your work?

            Often when I have been approached by people who think what I can do can be accomplished by any moderately trained primate I will respond in kind: "Oh, Doctor, would you mind 'hooking me up' with some plastic surgery?", etc. Only when you ask them for some quid pro quo do you often get the light bulb over their head to turn on.
            "Announcing your intentions is a good way to hear God laugh." Al Swearingen (Deadwood)

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            • #21
              Quoth CrazedClerkthe2nd View Post
              And honestly, if this friend had sprung for some food and liquor as a "thank you", I probably would have discounted his labor charge or maybe told him we could call it even. But he never offered even that.
              THAT is ridiculous.

              Even hired-for-pay tradies get a jug of ice water and glasses left near their work area, and an offer of coffee/tea/etc.

              Sure, a mate helping me out might end up being offered the same as what I'm eating - which really isn't exactly gourmet food - but the pantry and the fridge are open to them and I think that that's the least I can do!
              Seshat's self-help guide:
              1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
              2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
              3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
              4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

              "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

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              • #22
                My ex-roommate's kids will be helping me move some stuff this weekend. If that help goes over the value of the window air-conditioner I've already given them, I'll be paying them $10 an hour.

                The folks who help me with the major part of my move, in six weeks or so, will be getting beer (or pop), pizza, and maybe jewelry or garb, depending.

                If somebody OFFERS to do something for you for free, that's their choice. Anyone who just EXPECTS it, is not a friend.

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                • #23
                  Quoth Seshat View Post
                  THAT is ridiculous.

                  Even hired-for-pay tradies get a jug of ice water and glasses left near their work area, and an offer of coffee/tea/etc.

                  Sure, a mate helping me out might end up being offered the same as what I'm eating - which really isn't exactly gourmet food - but the pantry and the fridge are open to them and I think that that's the least I can do!
                  Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately experience has led me to bring my own water and snacks so I can be sure I won't be left without nourishment in any circumstances.
                  "If we refund your money, give you a free replacement and shoot the manager, then will you be happy?" - sign seen in a restaurant

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                  • #24
                    First of all , Jester......

                    (2) I am pretty much the best ever at fitting a lot of stuff into a small space
                    That's what SHE said!!

                    Ahem. I apologize for that.

                    And second of all, in all seriousness, what does this "friend" do for a living? Because I agree with everyone who thinks that he should have no problem "hooking you up" for 6 straight hours of whatever that is. Tax preparation! Sweet! Exotic dancer? Bring it on! Tit for tat!!!
                    "Can't talk.

                    Comin' down."

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                    • #25
                      even with my parents the rule is "You work me, you feed me!"
                      this is if mom drags dad out shopping (its work for him)
                      or if she hijacks my weekend to help with some redecorating project - I don't live there anymore, i'm not under any obligation to help - so if I do - "THERE are rules woman!!"

                      there have been times where she "offers" to feed me - at which point i look at her and remind her "you worked me, didn't you?"
                      I am well versed in the "gentle" art of verbal self-defense

                      Once is an accident; Twice is coincidence; Thrice is a pattern.

                      http://www.gofundme.com/treasurenathanwedding

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