Doctor Who NEW season (contains spoilers)

[Miss Maple Leaf]

For the most part, I really liked this episode, but one thing about it really bugged me.

At the beginning of the episode the Doctor was captured on Skaro, the original home planet of the Daleks. However, the Seventh Doctor tricked Davros into blowing it up during "Remembrance of the Daleks". Russell T Davies even said that the Doctor doing that was the event that kicked off the Time War.

I can see forgetting some minor detail about the Classic Series and accidentally writing something that contradicts it, but how does a professed fanboy like Moffatt forget something as major as the Doctor getting the creator of the Daleks to blow up their own planet?

[cinema guy]

For the most part, I really liked this episode, but one thing about it really bugged me.

Also how were there Daleks from pre-Time War stories in the Asylum?

(Aridus, Exxilon, Vulcan, Kembel - The Chase, Death to the Daleks, Power of..., and Dalek Masterplan).

[KiaKat]

I get the impression that the Daleks in the Asylum were somehow protected from the Time War. Perhaps the same forcefield that kept the Parliament from blowing up the Asylum?

Also, "blowing up the planet" could mean turning into the wasteland we saw. It looked pretty devastated. Remember Gallifrey in The End of Time? The Doctor talked about his planet being blown up (I think, I don't remember the exact wording...), and it was simply turned into a burning hunk of rock.

(BTW: Note the Doctor in Revived Series 1, episode Dalek. He, the man who hates guns, grabbed a gun and threatened to kill a Dalek. Then in this episode, he cowered in fear of the two Daleks before Oswin wiped their memory. He's got a very twisted relationship with the species, that has now been re-set. I don't think they're going to show up often, at least not while Moffatt is writing, but it'll be interesting to see if they're as hate-filled from now on, especially with Davros being officially gone... finally.)

[Zoom]

I think they've finally run out of new ideas for a Dalek story. Now that they've done the final horror (Souffle Girl's realization that she's been turned into one of them). That's the ultimate logical progression, unless they just want to do silly ones from now on. ("Egg... Stir... Minate!")

[simplyanother]

Well..hulu doesn't have Doctor Who, Netflix doesn't seem to be updating theirs..so I may not have a way to watch it. That stinks.

Used to crack me up, because the Television Without Pity page for when Doctor Who was on Permanent Hiatus...said something like "If you ever wanted to know about Bit Torrent, ask a Doctor Who Fan". But, I think then, the show was airing on Sci-fi (or was it SyFy then?), far far behind the original UK broadcasts (months instead of hours).

I actually enjoyed the episode. Most of 11's episodes have felt like big chunks of them were missing, and even if I watched the show from beginning to end, and didn't get up, I always felt like "wait, did I got the bathroom at some pivotal point, wtf happened?".


When we saw the previews for the next episode, my oldest son (he's 12), goes "dinosaurs on ...a ....spaceship? snakes on a plane!". heh.

[Jester]

I'm just talking about the daleks in general in previous episodes he's always tried to talk them down instead of blowing them up and in fact when the other doctor killed all the daleks in the season 4 finale he was pretty pissed off. Also the Daleks have enslaved Earth before, and they were murderous maniacs before the doctor got involved.

And correct me if I'm wrong (I often am), but didn't the Doctor destroy all the Daleks in the Time War? Just how many times can they be revived to irritate him and us?

Just wondering.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Pond to worship at....

[Mytical]

He didn't just destroy them all in the time war, but on many many other occasions also. Yet they keep coming back. Roaches are, as you are reading this, building temples to them. Now there are the 'new five' that are supposed to be superior versions of them..unless those have been destroyed by now. *shrugs*

[Jester]

Not to mention the Dalek Parliament from the first episode of the new season, which was never, ever explained.

[georgie]

im still not a fan of the new doctor but he doesnt irritate me as much now. like amy and love love love rory.

do NOT like the new girl at all. i know she's becoming the new companion in a few weeks but ugh to her

[Tuxian]

OK, since people seem to be asking about it, I will attempt to construct a history of the Daleks for people. Beware, lots of twists and turns ahead, but I'll attempt to be brief. And I'll throw in some of my own theories as to the Time War near the end.

The Daleks were first designed by a mad scientist named Davros on the planet Skaro. The two races that inhabited the world, the Thals and the Kaleds, had been at war for generations, with no end in sight. Davros had the idea that the Kaleds needed to become more powerful, more deadly, and more fearsome than their current forms could be, and designed the Daleks to be the ultimate weapon. It worked a little too well. Davros died by being shot by one of his own creations. The Daleks went on to convert what remained of the Kaleds into Daleks, and founded a city on Skaro, where they lived in isolation for many years, while the Thals retreated to the other side of Skaro, the entire surface of the planet devastated from the nuclear weapons detonated by both sides of the conflict.

The Doctor arrives on Skaro, and encounters the Daleks in their city during his first incarnation, with the end result of the entire city's power being turned off, and the Daleks (who drew their power from a static charge that ran through the floor) all (supposedly) died. However some managed to survive, and eventually were able to escape from Skaro. They encountered the Doctor several times, each time being defeated by him. They advance quite rapidly along the technology tree, and eventually manage to construct a time machine to chase after the Doctor and dispose of him once and for all, as seen in The Chase. The second and third Doctors also had several run-ins with the Daleks, also foiling their plans at every turn.

The Time Lords began to take an interest in the Daleks, recognizing that they could become a major threat to Gallifrey if left unchecked. Co-opting a transmat beam containing the fourth Doctor, Sarah Jane, and Harry Sullivan, they send the trio back to Skaro at the time when the Daleks were first created, in hopes of either finding some weakness in the creatures, or altering their creation in some way to make them less of a threat. He succeeds, though not in the way that had been intended. The Doctor's presence leads to Davros surviving instead of dying, and thus splits the Daleks into two factions, the "Imperial" Daleks who follow Davros, and the Renegade Daleks who oppose his rule (as he is not a 'pure' Dalek like they are).

Again, the Doctor faces off with them time after time, beating back both the Renegades and Davros at every encounter, until finally we reach Remembrance of the Daleks, the final "classic" series story with them. The Doctor tricks Davros into using a Time Lord device called the Hand of Omega, which sends Skaro's sun into a super-nova, obliterating their home world, before destroying their mothership (though Davros can be seen escaping just before the ship goes boom).

After this, we only have speculation as to what happens during the eighth Doctor's time, but we do know that the Daleks eventually managed to overcome their factional differences, and launched a full-out Time War against Gallifrey and the Time Lords, both sides unleashing terrible weapons against the other, until finally the Doctor put an end to it, destroying both sides in one massive, final conflagration (and the Time Lords knew he would, as seen in "The End of Time" when one of the High Council mentions that the Doctor "possesses the Moment"). However, at some point during the war, one single Dalek got tossed into a time rift at some point during the war, ending up on Earth (where the Doctor encountered it during "Dalek"). And at the final battle, the ship of the Dalek Emperor managed to execute an emergency temporal shift, and began rebuilding the Daleks using humans as base material until the Doctor and Rose destroyed them.

Later on, the Doctor encounters a Dalek Voidship, containing the last of the Cult of Skaro, who use the Cyber invasion force to sneak back into reality and attempt to open the Genesis Ark, a prison the Time Lords constructed to hold millions of Daleks. Again, the Doctor defeated them, sucking them back into the rift, all save the Cult of Skaro, who performed emergency temporal shifts to escape (this was probably not technology given to the rank and file Daleks, as they would want their leaders and thinkers to escape, knowing they could rebuild anywhere they ended up).

The Doctor meets the Cult again in New York, where Dalek Sec attempts to evolve the Daleks to free them from their hatred and their metal shells, creating a human-Dalek hybrid. However his attempt is foiled by the rest of the Cult, leading to his death and the death of Thay and Jast, leaving Caan the last survivor, who then temporal shifted into the Time War itself, managed to extract Davros, but at the price of his (seeming) sanity. However Caan was more devious than even Davros could have imagined, and his trip through the Time Lock showed him EVERYTHING the Daleks were, are, and will be, and he declared that it would end, all of it. And he set up the events that lead to that end with Davros' Reality Bomb.

Again, however, a single ship managed to escape. This one carried a special machine containing pure Dalek DNA (the Daleks Davros constructed his army from were each grown from a single cell from his own body). The Daleks construct a situation to force the Doctor to activate the device, which brings forth the "new Dalek Paradigm" to confront him. They evidently rebuild Dalek society (if you look closely, you can see the new designs in the background of the Dalek Parliament ship).

Where things will go from here, with the Daleks no longer having their memories of the Doctor, is anyone's guess, though. Sorry, know I rambled quite a bit there...

[Jester]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I often am), but the actual Time War was never directly covered in any Doctor Who episode, was it? I ask because, while I think I have seen every episode of 9, 10, and 11, I have seen exactly zero episodes of 1-8. (Though I did see the movie with Peter Cushing ("Doctor Who and the Daleks"), which was, quite honestly, rather terrible, even for a 1965 sci-fi movie.

So my knowledge of The Doctor, the Daleks, and the Time War is all drawn from the new incarnation of the show and the 9th, 10th, and 11th Doctors. So longer term fans, can you help me out here?

[KiaKat]

The Time War was a bit of a contrivance to explain the regeneration from 8 to 9, and to provide a backstory that would allow the modern series to be a bit darker (and to give Chris Eccleston a chance to really show off). It also meant they wouldn't have to deal with the Time Lords or Gallifrey, which opens up the possibilities, since there were no more old men looking down on the Doctor and harrumphing.

It's been discussed a few times, but it's never been shown.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Words

Very succinctly put. As Tuxian explained, there were basically a few groups that escaped the Last Great Time War.

- The lone Dalek found by Van Staten. ("Dalek") However, by falling through a crack in the time-lock around the Last Great Time War, it was left dying and low on power.
- The four members of the Cult of Skaro, who survived by using the Dalek Voidship. ("Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday")
- The millions of Daleks imprisoned in the Genesis Ark, which survived because the Cult had taken it with them into the Voidship. ("Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday")

When Dalek Caan of the Cult of Skaro escaped back into the Time War, it did severely affect his sanity due to the things he saw in the process. He managed to save Davros, and they escaped back out of the Time War. Davros then rebuilt the Dalek Empire from his own cells. This new Dalek Empire created the Reality Bomb in the Medusa Cascade, intending THE DESTRUCTION! OF REALITY! ITSELF! ("The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End") Fortunately, they were stopped, as Tenth's half-human clone destroyed the Daleks from the heart of the Crucible ship.

One Dalek saucer survived, however, and escaped to 1941. The three Daleks on this ship had the Progenitor Device, which would allow them to create the New Dalek Paradigm. ("Victory of the Daleks") They managed to escape, as the Doctor had to choose between destroying the Daleks once and for all, or saving the Earth.

I take it to understand that the New Dalek Paradigm has been biding its time, building up its forces and trying to determine what to do about the Doctor. In the interim, they obviously established the Parliament for themselves, lacking a singular authority like the Dalek Emperor or Davros.

As for how the Doctor was able to visit Skaro when it had been destroyed, I refer you to the prequel to "Asylum of the Daleks." The mysterious hooded figure that contacts the Doctor via his dreams gives him a message to find Darla Von Karlsen, as she needs his help, and gives him space-time coordinates to Skaro. The Doctor, who possesses a time machine after all, just visited the coordinates in question, to a point before the planet's destruction.

[Jester]

So if I understand it correctly, the 8th Doctor was the one who destroyed the Daleks and, in so doing, his fellow Time Lords. Even though the 8th Doctor only ever had one television appearance, the tv movie with Paul McGann. (Yes, I've been doing my homework.)

Has it ever been established where in the timeline of the 8th Doctor the Time War happened? Was it before or after the McGann movie? And, again correct me if I'm wrong, but we never see (on tv, not talking about audio or novels) the 8th Doctor die and regenerate into the 9th Doctor, do we?

As for how the Doctor was able to visit Skaro when it had been destroyed, I refer you to the prequel to "Asylum of the Daleks."

Um, what prequel? I only saw the episode, and don't believe BBCA ran anything else besides that. At least, I didn't see it On Demand, and my DVR certainly didn't see it, or it would have taped it.

[Gizmo]

We'd stopped watching Dr Who not long after Matt took over and were trying to make an attempt to get back into it again.

I watched it and although it wasn't a bad story... I still can't stand Matt. I wish I could but he's just one of those actors that I can't watch and I've found that will everything he's been in - not just Who. He's nails on a chalkboard for me (and hubby as well funnily enough - we normally don't agree on these things).

I do live with a 10 Impersonator though... he's good enough in the costume that a friend of ours still has to convince herself it isn't the "real" one every time she sees him - even on the same night.