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  • #16
    Quoth auntiem View Post
    The problem with that one though is that he changed way too far out of the owner's comfort zone and it changed back just a few weeks later. Personally, he was right to go after the corporate crowd (due in most part to location) but I was really hoping it would have gone down the opening scene in the Monty Python movie "corporate pirate direction" - that I think would have been a very clever compromise that everyone could have lived with.
    Perhaps the cautionary tale here is if you want to run your own bar or restaurant in a certain theme, don't hose it up and then run to some expert on a TV show to fix everything.

    The one episode I saw changed a strip joint into a billiards/sports bar. It seemed to work well and the employees embraced the changes.
    Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

    "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

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    • #17
      Quoth Joyius View Post
      I personally like Gordon Ramsey better, he'll side with the restaurant over a customer any day :3.
      That's one of the many reasons I'd go gay for that man.
      If anyone breaks the three pint rule, they'll be running all night to the pisser and back.

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      • #18
        One of the things that bothers me about "Restaurant Stakeout" is when Degal talks to the servers after he's been watching them and goes on about how the "customer is king" and about how they apparently need to get passionate and really live the business to do their jobs properly.

        These are men and women who are more than likely working primarily part-time for minimum wage plus tips and no benefits. It's kind of hard to get uber excited for a job that doesn't really offer a lot in return.

        For the owners and senior managers, the business is their entire livelihood. I understand they NEED to live and breathe the business to make it successful.

        But for the servers, it's not a career, it's just a job.

        I've worked retail and I am perfectly capable of doing my job competently and respecting my customers and displaying personality to them to build rapport. But at the end of the day, it's not a career for me and I just can't be bothered to get too excited about the business.

        Our DM tries repeatedly to get us to live the business to a near religious level, but I've never had any desire to do so. Because 1) I know this isn't a career and I don't have an interest in moving up in the company and 2) I know that even IF I were to "live the business" that passion and loyalty would not be reciprocated. They'd fire me in an instant if it meant saving money or bumping the share price up a little. If you are not going to show any loyalty to me, is it really fair to expect me to be blindingly loyal to you?

        I much prefer "Restaurant Impossible" because Robert Irvine is very direct and no nonsense and he also addresses EVERYTHING that goes into running a restaurant from food quality to food cost to marketing to atmosphere. He does spend a little time on customer service, but usually it's not the primary focus of his efforts.
        "If we refund your money, give you a free replacement and shoot the manager, then will you be happy?" - sign seen in a restaurant

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        • #19
          Quoth Joyius View Post
          I personally like Gordon Ramsey better, he'll side with the restaurant over a customer any day :3.
          He tends to side with whoever is right, if thats the customers, whoever messed up will get the flak, if it's the restaraunt/staff, then he'll defend them to the hilt.

          I've met him, spoke to him, and even cooked for him (albeit i didn't know at the time, i think i'd have been bricking it if i had), nice guy as long as you don't piss him off, and very pasisonate about cooking, which partly explains his vigor for shouting at people (the other part that explains it is that pretty much any british head chef, and probably globally, will be like that if you mess up. Asking nicely, while usually a good idea, won'tget someone who is really slacking to shape up.
          I am the nocturnal echo-locating flying mammal man.

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          • #20
            Quoth RayvenQ View Post
            He tends to side with whoever is right, if thats the customers, whoever messed up will get the flak, if it's the restaraunt/staff, then he'll defend them to the hilt.

            I've met him, spoke to him, and even cooked for him (albeit i didn't know at the time, i think i'd have been bricking it if i had), nice guy as long as you don't piss him off, and very pasisonate about cooking, which partly explains his vigor for shouting at people (the other part that explains it is that pretty much any british head chef, and probably globally, will be like that if you mess up. Asking nicely, while usually a good idea, won'tget someone who is really slacking to shape up.
            This, exactly. He might have a potty mouth, but you do right by him & he'll do right by you. He doesn't suffer fools gladly, & he's in a profession where there's a lot of stiff competition at the top, so whoever he trusts to work in his kitchen is carrying his reputation in their hands whenever they cook. That would make anyone a bit short with someone who screws up!

            Plus, he's part of an initiative that takes young offenders & gives them the opportunity to train & work as chefs so they have something that will help keep them from re-offending when they're released:

            http://www.channel4.com/programmes/gordon-behind-bars
            "It is traditional when asking for help or advice to listen to the answers you receive" - RealUnimportant

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            • #21
              While I like the general idea of shows like Restaurant Stakeout -- fixing up places that are on their last legs -- I do agree that the host's insistence on "custy is always right" is absurd. Granted, the few eps I've seen feature staff that is so far beyond incompetent that I don't know how they've held on to their jobs as long as they have, but still >_>

              I agree with the Ramsay method -- listen to both sides, excoriate whoever really caused the problem. We could have used him at my brother's old Italian joint years ago, which has since been sold and completely reworked twice since he got out of it (less than a decade ago), and is now just an empty shell of a building.
              "For a musician, the SNES sound engine is like using Crayola Crayons. Nobuo Uematsu used Crayola Crayons to paint the Sistine Chapel." - Jeremy Jahns (re: "Dancing Mad")
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              • #22
                Quoth CrazedClerkthe2nd View Post
                Our DM tries repeatedly to get us to live the business to a near religious level, but I've never had any desire to do so. Because 1) I know this isn't a career and I don't have an interest in moving up in the company and 2) I know that even IF I were to "live the business" that passion and loyalty would not be reciprocated. They'd fire me in an instant if it meant saving money or bumping the share price up a little. If you are not going to show any loyalty to me, is it really fair to expect me to be blindingly loyal to you?
                You described the franchise owner of the tax chain I work...Add the fact that the job is seasonal for all but him and his TM's.
                Quoth CrazedClerkthe2nd View Post
                I much prefer "Restaurant Impossible" because Robert Irvine is very direct and no nonsense and he also addresses EVERYTHING that goes into running a restaurant from food quality to food cost to marketing to atmosphere. He does spend a little time on customer service, but usually it's not the primary focus of his efforts.
                Agreed...Irvine will not shy away from telling owners that they are a part of the problem.
                I'm trying to see things from your point of view, but I can't get my head that far up my keister!

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                • #23
                  Ok..time for me to don the Anti-Tomato suit. While I don't like the show Restaurant Stakeout..some of the times the workers ARE to blame on it. Texting at work (facebook, etc) I can see as being a problem. There was a time when one of the 'fake customers' had an 'allergy', and something with that 'allergy' was given them. That is BAD!. Horseplay, etc. I can see where there is problems. That being said, they never show the other side..the side of how the employees are treated, if management will have their backs, etc. If the employees are not treated right, then yeah maybe there will be some problems. You may now throw tomatoes if you wish.

                  As for Bar Rescue, love the show. My only grief with it is that every blasted 'rescue' the Bar/cooking area is filthy. Really? REALLY? I mean come on, no bar EVER gets cleaned? Don't buy it for a second. Other then that, it is an interesting show. Jon Taffer also doesn't take any gaff from anybody, and will tell them straight.
                  Engaged to the amazing Marmalady. She is my Silver Dragon, shining as bright as the sun. I her Black Dragon (though good honestly), dark as night..fierce and strong.

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                  • #24
                    Yeah, Kitchen Nightmares is better. Gordon Ramsey insists on everything being high quality, but I've seen episodes where a customer complained about something that just wasn't true. Gordon checked it, then handed the customer their head after verifying they weren't right. I appreciate that attitude. And in Hell's Kitchen, he's told off customers more than once that tried to come up to the kitchen window to complain.

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                    • #25
                      Quoth greek_jester View Post
                      Plus, he's part of an initiative that takes young offenders & gives them the opportunity to train & work as chefs so they have something that will help keep them from re-offending when they're released:

                      http://www.channel4.com/programmes/gordon-behind-bars
                      I remember an episode of The F word (the F stands for Food) where he went to a prison kitchen to talk with some of the inmates and challenged one of them to a chopping competition in chopping an onion. Professional chef vs an inmate, easy guess to the winner right?

                      Ramsey still didn't finish his onion when he realized he got smoked.

                      First words out of his mouth were "As soon as you get out you have a job."

                      Funny you should bring up Bar Rescue though and the pirate bar specifically. The problem is that the owner didn't want a bar, she wanted a clubhouse for her and her pirate friends. Now having a clubhouse is fine, but it's not a business and there's no money to be had in a clubhouse. The sad part is that the staff actually adjusted well to the change but now they're out of work because she didn't want a business. (And the bar actually didn't last a week. The owner sold it after 3 days and her and her husband who was the most god awful chef I've seen moved back in with her parents.)
                      I AM the evil bastard!
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                      • #26
                        Quoth Barracuda View Post
                        And in Hell's Kitchen, he's told off customers more than once that tried to come up to the kitchen window to complain.
                        Admittedly there were a few times when people have questioned the validity of whether the customers/chef are plants and trying to stage a scene. (the long wait ones I can understand, the ones where they're complaining about food however, not so much) Although you are right.

                        There was also an episode way way way back in the first series where Elsie was doing the tableside service of caesar salad and fruit flambe. One guy complained about his salad to the maitre'd, and he went over and proceeded to tell Elsie that "what you have there is a pain in the neck. Just cut his salad up for him, like a big boy" and just basically ribbing the guy (not directly to his face) about his salad.
                        Even his fellow diners ribbed him for it!
                        The best professors are mad scientists! -Zoom

                        Now queen of USSR-Land...

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                        • #27
                          Quoth fireheart View Post
                          Admittedly there were a few times when people have questioned the validity of whether the customers/chef are plants and trying to stage a scene.
                          Considering the insane stupidity of some diners (CRML has posted about some real crazies), I suspect that if some of them are plants, they're likely doing reenactments so the crazy can be aired on the show as opposed to making up new drama.

                          ^-.-^
                          Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

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                          • #28
                            Quoth Andara Bledin View Post
                            Considering the insane stupidity of some diners (CRML has posted about some real crazies), I suspect that if some of them are plants, they're likely doing reenactments so the crazy can be aired on the show as opposed to making up new drama.

                            ^-.-^
                            Most likely. Then again, Hell's Kitchen is meant to be somewhat like a training restaurant, so chances are that the plants may have been placed for a different reason, namely, how do you handle difficult customers?

                            Compared to Season 9, Season 10 was actually fairly tame. Barbie (one of the perceived "plants") seemed to be causing less drama as the season went on, with her nominations for solid reasons (slow prep and occasionally struggling) and the "drama queens" were eliminated well before her.
                            Last edited by fireheart; 10-07-2012, 10:29 AM.
                            The best professors are mad scientists! -Zoom

                            Now queen of USSR-Land...

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                            • #29
                              On the topic of Bar Rescue: I've been watching the replay marathons that have been playing the last few days on Spike, and I have to agree with most people: John Taffer is the bar equivalent of Gordon Ramsay. He takes no shit from anyone, and will flat-out tell these arrogant, irresponsible owners to their face that they're wrong, their business is suffering because of it, and if you want to get back on the road to success you're damn well going to LISTEN TO HIM. Yes, he has to curse at these people a lot of the time because so many of them are so far gone into their own delusions of "business" that they can't see the forest for the trees.

                              Classic example from the one I watched yesterday. He sends his wife in to scope out the bar. She gets a drink from the bar, and one of the regulars is constantly touching her, playing with her hair, so on, making her feel uncomfortable. She, being the social type, goes to a table of people and starts up a conversation, ordering a round of Jagerbombs for the table. The bartender serves the bombs in those little plastic shot glasses with a center well for the liquor and an outer, deeper area for the mixer. She lightly squeezed the glass once she had it, and it cracked and splashed on the table. Then, to her horror, she noticed _lip prints_ on the rim. The bar was _reusing_ disposable shot glasses.

                              Things like that are what hurt businesses. As John said in his critique of the owner: He's watching every dime, and missing the dollar. He was so focused on not 'wasting' anything (the shot glasses, canned Progresso soup, freezers full of frozen product, "save the foam" note on the beer tap to remind the bartenders to pour the foam off a beer into another pitcher and then serve it so as not to waste the keg) that he completely missed that his bar wasn't a place anyone who wasn't a "regular" would be comfortable. When John asked him why he was so indifferent about it, he said that if people had a problem they'd complain, which isn't always true, most people who don't feel comfortable in a bar just simply never go back.

                              The man knows what's what, and when the bar owners refuse to take advantage of the massive kick in the ass he's giving them (like the ungrateful woman who ran Piratz Tavern), they deserve to fail.
                              Dealer hits... 21. Table loses.

                              This happens more often than most people want to believe.

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