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  • Friendly Fraud. [long] [EDIT:happy ending!]

    Sigh. Deep, massive sigh.

    Get your popcorn and drinks, this is a long one.

    Sidenote: The title is actually both what he is, and the legal term for what he's done. As of now, there's not much legislation against it, and it's the most common form of fraud I am facing now.

    ------------

    Back in June, I was contacted by a guy who we will dub JF.

    JF was wanting a massive site design. Custom pages throughout, with some extremely detailed work, and advertising materials as well. I gave him a decent quote, and he asked if I'd take payments, as he didn't have the money right now. I said no, he quibbled a bit, but didn't really argue much, as I stood my ground.

    July, he contacts me back, saying he'd decided to get the money anyways, let's get started on the project. I sent him a final estimate, he accepted it (literally, you have to click a button that says Accept Estimate), and lo and behold...paid 100% upfront. I was shocked, but decided this was a good sign.

    I gathered all of my standard project brief details from him, and proceeded on the project.

    From the very first mockup, he gushed over everything. How amazed he was that I absolutely nailed what he wanted, how the little details I added were just "making the site"...he constantly messaged me multiple times an hour to just rave about it all. Even still, he asked for multiple revisions, to add in something here or there. As it was all still covered under what I'd quoted him, I was okay with this. However, I noted to him that each revision would take extra time to do, and he waved this off.

    JF: seriously thi sis so beast
    JF: i don't care how f***in long it takes, this is perfect
    JF: don't rush, just do what you do
    Seraph: Ok, just wanted to let you know, and to cover this with you. We're almost done with it anyways.
    JF: yeh i dont care, i'm just stoked it looks so amazing
    JF: f***, its so cool
    JF: sorry for language, but its so f***in cool
    Even with all the revisions, I got his main template designed up in six days...which was within my standard "time to design" period of 3-7 days, that I told him it might take. (I try to account for revisions, and email communication delays) He was ecstatic that I completed it, and with t he finished result.

    JF: holy f***
    Seraph: You like, eh?
    JF: holy f***
    JF: holy f***
    JF: omg you are amazing!!!! i am so glad i let you take your time, just DO WHAT YOU DO. if everything looks like this, i don't care how long it takes.
    Seraph: lol
    Seraph: Well, I won't do *that*, as I like to progress my projects quickly, but I am glad you like it so much.
    I completed the next page, and then the next. He still constantly messaged me for updates, and praised my work every single time.

    JF: wanted to tell you that i showed this to everyone i know, they all said it looks so cool. thank you for making my site look so amazing, i think its the best one you've made!
    As I was almost done, he asked for another revision. He asked for a custom menu, with a special menu done in jquery. It looked amazing, honestly, but it had one issue. It wouldn't be easily customizable, and it was out of the scope of the project. I got a hold of him, and explained this out quite thoroughly.

    Seraph: This menu you want unfortunately will not integrate with the easy navigation editing. You will have to edit each link, and add them in yourself. You'll need to do this in the future as well.
    JF: so what do I need to do
    Seraph: All you'll really need to do is learn a little bit of basic HTML, enough to cover how to add links, and make them clickable
    JF: yah i know some html already, doesn't matter
    Seraph: Ok, that's good to hear, just wanted to say though, that this menu will require just a little bit more work to upkeep. We'll write you a bit of documentation as well, on how to edit it.
    JF: thanks
    Menu was set up, selected, and then incorporated into the design.

    Finally, I was finished...it'd taken me about eleven days to complete all the page designs, as he'd made changes on the other pages as well. With that, we started on the installation process. I warned him ahead of time that it was going to take a little bit, due to all the custom work, and of course, the custom menu.

    Seraph: It'll probably be a week to do this, maybe a bit more. Just depends on what happens, and how this all goes
    JF: i dont care, i'm just happy with everything, and how much you update me. i appreciate it. the design is beast
    JF: just make it all look good, all i want!
    JF: no rush
    JF: no rush at all
    Halfway through the week, the servers for his site went down for a full day. I let JF know about the setback, and assured him that as soon as they went back up, we'd get back on installing.

    JF was not happy.

    JF: what do you mean, delayed
    Seraph: Well, your servers are down. We can't work on the site, while it's not up
    JF: you told me it'd all be done within two weeks, you lied to me
    Seraph: Wait, what?
    Seraph: I'm a bit confused, first off, I never quoted a deadline for your project, nor did you ask for one. In fact, just the other day you said 'no rush'.
    JF: Well that was before i had three of my friends move over here from several states away, to work as employees for my site
    JF: now its not up and they're wanting to work and get paid
    Seraph: I am sorry, but I have been working as efficiently as possible, and I already told you earlier this week, that it'd be about a week to install all of this. You were fine with that...and we're only three days in
    JF: how dare you lie to me
    JF: do you f***in know who you are talking to
    JF: get my site done now
    Seraph: I already told you, YOUR SERVERS ARE DOWN. We cannot do anything until your servers are back up.
    JF: you'd better get my site done, or you will regret it
    JF: i will come after you
    /JF logs off
    Whoa.

    What the FUDGE just happened?!

    I was at a complete loss. JF went from overly exuberant happy client, to complete SC, in less than ten seconds. Instead of trying to contact him back immediately, I decided to let him cool off. Honestly, I figured maybe he was drunk, or something, because the personality change was so violently different.

    The next day, JF's site servers were back up, and we started right back on the installation. JF messaged me to find out the progress.

    JF: so how are things going
    Seraph: Just fine, my coder's progressing. He should be done with the menu part soon, and will be writing documentation on it for you, so you can edit it.
    JF: what do you f***in mean
    JF: so i can edit it
    Seraph: As I told you earlier... <recaps menu/HTML discussion>
    JF: WHAT THE F***
    JF: I DONT WANT TO HAVE TO DO WORK
    JF: I PAID YOU TO DO MY SITE AND NOW YOU TRY AND RIP ME OFF
    JF: HOW DARE YOU
    JF: I AM FILING FOR A DISPUTE RIGHT NOW, YOU F**** SCAMMER
    Panic mode activated.

    I contact my coder, and tell him what's going on. The both of us promptly contact him, asking what is up. I provide JF with a screencap of the conversation we'd had earlier.

    Seraph: JF, see, we already discussed this. What's happened between then and now
    JF: i don't want to f***in waste my time learning f***in HTML, I don't have the TIME FOR THAT
    Seraph: You don't have to learn ALL of html!
    Seraph: <link to a page describing making hyperlinks>
    Seraph: Seriously, that is all you need to know. You can even bookmark that page, it has a link generator, so 90% of the work is removed for you
    JF: thats all?
    JF: oh hahahaha
    JF: i thought i was going to have to learn a a**load of coding hahaha
    JF: ok, we cool
    Seraph: Alright....glad to hear it
    Ok, that was freaking weird.

    We finish the installation, and my coder sends over the documentation to JF, and even leaves a short summary of it as a comment, IN the menu code.

    I contacted JF to let him know of the project completion, and that everything was done. I got his approval, and more praise of the design. I remind him to make a backup of it, right now, before making any modifications. The one issue with this is...backups HAVE to be the responsibility of the site admin. This is stated in my terms, this is stated on their own site, and I always tell this to my clients.

    He says he will, and thanks me again.

    After this, I figured, eh, maybe it was just a weird blip, at least he seems happy now. Everything is over, right?

    Wrong.

    JF: you f***in liar
    JF: MY MENU ISNT DONE AT ALL
    Seraph: Wait, what?
    JF: ITS F***IN BROKEN
    JF: YOUR CODER DIDNT SEND ANYTHING ON HOW TO DO IT, YOU BOTH ARE LIARS
    Seraph: I'm looking now
    Seraph: <links screencapture> No, the documentation is right there, and here is another screencap, of the documentation we left in the script itself
    JF: scammer
    JF: that's all you are
    Seraph: JF, it's right there, I'm not sure what else you want
    JF: Well, Janet told me you broke things
    Seraph: ....Janet?
    JF: yeh janet, she works for bob, she was working on my script and said its broken. i dont know who she is, though, i thought bob was going to work on my site
    Seraph: What about the backups?
    JF: what f***in backups
    Seraph: I told you to make backups
    JF: i had janet work on it, she has a site too, she said she backed it up, but the backup isnt working right, she thinks she miscopied it
    Seraph: Wait, let me get this straight. Just so I'm clarified on this. You didn't make a backup, and had someone who you don't even know, tamper with the script?
    JF: f*** you, fix the site
    Seraph: I'm sorry, but we'll have to charge extra for the time we're going to have to spend to work on fixing whatever happened.
    JF: HOW DARE YOU
    JF: dont you f***in talk down to me, you b****
    JF: you are going to regret crossing me
    JF: get me the backups
    /JF logs off
    Great. Its Jekyll again.

    To try and soothe things, I manage to get a backup from the coder, and sent it on over to JF. Maybe this will help?

    Apparently not.

    JF: thank you for the files, and the backups. i appreciate it.
    Seraph: You're welcome, I'm glad I could help. Everything better now?
    JF: you bet
    JF; you were f***in dumb enough to give me the backups you idiot
    JF: now there's nothing you can do
    /JF has blocked you
    Oh, FRACK.

    Within two minutes, I get a notification from paypal. JF has filed a dispute.

    I promptly take screenshots of EVERYTHING, and send it on over to PayPal.

    I also post a short recap of what's going on, to a niche forum I'm on. There, I get a shock. One of my buddies has JUST had a run-in with JF. Apparently, JF's been spamming him for free help, and my friend kindly gave him what he could, then excused himself to go work on his own site. JF then proceeded to cuss him out for not helping him out with every little detail. My friend, annoyed by this, told JF that if he acted like that, he wasn't going to get far. This was what JF sent him:

    JF: you dont talk to me like that you f***
    JF: i will come out to where you live, and leave you in a pool of your own blood
    JF: yeha you heard me, b****
    JF: f*** you
    Yep. JF went there.

    But anyways, so back to the dispute...Paypal decided in my favor within two hours. It was actually really simple for them. They checked the website over, saw that my proof lined up with the obvious fact that...the design was being used. Right then.

    JF went BALLISTIC.

    Amusingly, a friend of mine from the forum had friended JF on a popular social network. He informed me that right after I announced that the dispute was ruled in my favor...JF started posting statuses and pictures related to "shooting up scammers". Uhhhh....whoa.

    But as none of it was specifically targeted at me, nothing I could do. Thankfully, JF stops this within an hour...and seems to go quiet.

    Or so I thought.

    A week passes, and I get another notification. It's Paypal again. This time, JF is charging back directly through his credit card company. He is claiming that I never delivered the service he ordered.

    I resubmit all my documentation....all twenty five pages of it. I made special note of his message in which he laughed at me for giving him the files.

    Thirteen calls back and forth with Paypal, updating them constantly over the past two weeks, getting affadavits from various people, with proof of him trying to scam others, and making threats.

    JF contacted my coder as well, and laughed at him about it. Told him how stupid we were, to work on all of that, and to not expect this. How dumb my coder was for making it so easy for him to simply restore any attempts we made at having his site removed.

    JF threatened another one of my friends, and in his conversation, brought up how "funny it was that he f***ed Seraph sideways".

    As a final insult, he constantly posted pictures of the website on his social network site. Each one with captions varying in the line of "my awesome site" or "and it was free".

    Unfortunately....none of this helped. As of two hours ago...I was informed that despite the mountain of paperwork, screenshots, documents, and letters I faxed in for proof...the CC company sided with JF. I 'had no proof that the site installation ever took place'.

    I've been told that Paypal will be disputing this decision, and appealing, but that it could take 75-80 days....and that it looks pretty dire. Since they have already sided with him once, they most likely will again.

    What's worse, is that the crux of my argument against him....the one that "his site is up and running with the design"....may shortly be invalid. You see, not only did he chargeback me...but he just chargebacked his hosting and script company. So, in all likelyhood...his site will be removed, shortly...as I don't know why he's dumb enough to think that they will leave it up if he's successful. If his site is removed, my argument will have a massive hole in it, and it'll pretty much be guaranteed that he'll win.

    And sometimes...the bad guys win.
    By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

    "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

  • #2
    I'm so sorry. That sounds like a nightmare.

    Comment


    • #3
      Just like we all have to do when installing a major piece of software, isn't there a disclaimer or agreement you can have them sign and print, and even say, "I will start working on this when I have the printout signed and received in my snail mailbox.."?

      Comment


      • #4
        anyway to get the site taken down?
        Interviewer: What is your greatest weakness?
        Me: I expect competence from my coworkers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Quoth gremcint View Post
          anyway to get the site taken down?
          It sounds like it will be taken down, the problem is she's, probably, going to be screwed on getting paid fo all her hard work.

          And, who knows how many other people have been screwed by this scammer.
          "Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid" Redd Foxx as Al Royal - The Royal Family - Pilot Episode - 1991.

          Comment


          • #6
            Quoth emax4 View Post
            Just like we all have to do when installing a major piece of software, isn't there a disclaimer or agreement you can have them sign and print, and even say, "I will start working on this when I have the printout signed and received in my snail mailbox.."?
            I do, actually.

            - First, they have to click Accept Estimate, which has a link to my terms/conditions (JF did this)

            - Then I generate an Invoice, which states on it, that payment is considered acceptance of the terms. (JF did this, in fact, paid 100% upfront)

            - Finally, I get a explicit confirmation from the client, every single time, that the project is complete to their satisfaction. (JF's exact statement: "Its all perfect, there's nothing else, thank you so much"


            I am now using a quadruple system after this, which now includes a contract that has to be digitally, or hand signed, whichever method is preferable to the client. The digital signature system I am using is actually one that is considered legally binding, so...hopefully in the future I can just whip the contract out, and get my money back more easily.
            By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

            "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

            Comment


            • #7
              You may be able to take it to small claims court in your area since the work you did was in your house. I doubt he would show up and you would have an automatic win then you could sell the debt to a collection agency and let him deal with them.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm amazed that his posts about scamming you out of your time can't be taken as proof that you must have indeed provided something...
                This was one of those times where my mouth says "have a nice day" but my brain says "go step on a Lego". - RegisterAce
                I can't make something magically appear to fulfill all your hopes and dreams. Believe me, if I could I'd be the first person I'd help. - Trixie

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'd also take it to small claims. Scammers like this guy shouldn't get away.
                  Getting offended is a great way to avoid answering questions that make you sound dumb. - exmocaptainmoroni

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ugh, what an idiot. Sorry you got burned like this.

                    JF: you dont talk to me like that you f***
                    JF: i will come out to where you live, and leave you in a pool of your own blood
                    Between that, and the more generic threats he made on the boards/messaging sites, you should send that to the Police (or if he's out of state, to the FBI). That does sound like an actual threat after all.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      echo. This is bad news all around.
                      Quoth Jetfire View Post
                      Between that, and the more generic threats he made on the boards/messaging sites, you should send that to the Police (or if he's out of state, to the FBI). That does sound like an actual threat after all.
                      Agreed. Even if they cannot do something in your specific case -- If others have reported him, it could act as evidence supporting the notion that he does this stuff on a regular basis. This coule help if they have a general investigation going against him, or plan to do so. If you go to them or an attorney at all, make sure to point out the part where he says he got it all "for free". That makes it sound like he was planning the chargebacks all along. With all of your documentation, any competent attorney should be able to get something to stick against him.
                      Last edited by EricKei; 09-13-2013, 03:57 PM.
                      "For a musician, the SNES sound engine is like using Crayola Crayons. Nobuo Uematsu used Crayola Crayons to paint the Sistine Chapel." - Jeremy Jahns (re: "Dancing Mad")
                      "The difference between an amateur and a master is that the master has failed way more times." - JoCat
                      "Thinking is difficult, therefore let the herd pronounce judgment!" ~ Carl Jung
                      "There's burning bridges, and then there's the lake just to fill it with gasoline." - Wiccy, reddit
                      "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
                      "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)
                      Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
                      "Our psychic powers only work if the customer has a mind to read." - me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Quoth Jetfire View Post
                        Ugh, what an idiot. Sorry you got burned like this.



                        Between that, and the more generic threats he made on the boards/messaging sites, you should send that to the Police (or if he's out of state, to the FBI). That does sound like an actual threat after all.

                        I concur - the guy is making multiple threats against people's lives and the authorities are taking that sort of thing VERY seriously these days, especially with some of these lunatics posting on Facebook/Youtube about how they're going to go on shooting sprees and such.

                        Report this idiot to the police immediately. He clearly has a history of making threats against people and it wouldn't surprise me if he already had a police record.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh trust me, I asked the people he made threats at, to do so.
                          By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

                          "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Was there a contract? (Digital counts.) If so, small claims court is possibly a viable option...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree with what everyone else is saying, you should take him to small claims court, you have ample proof.

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