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  • Disney Fantasy

    Please please please stop making your pet choices based on what you saw on tv. Regardless of if it’s “based on a true story” Hollywood will always add flair and drama to everything they produce.

    Quit trying to buy a f***ing horse after watching some magic Disney BS or reading some fantasy book with dragons and such.

    No I will not sell you a horse because you find that breed ‘pleasing to the eye’.
    No I am not interested that you want a ‘war stallion’.
    There are more breeds available then just the Arabian and Quarter horse.

    Which brings me to the SC on one of the rare days I was training people not horses.

    SC: My daughter wants to do riding lessons.

    Me: okay, I can actually do an assessment right now if you want as my next lesson cancelled. Has your daughter had any previous experience?

    SC: I’m sure she’s a natural.

    Me: *grabs a halter to get one of the horses I know is both obedient and well trained to do most flat work*

    SC: no not that one!

    Me: I assure you he’s well trained and was an A-level Dressage horse until he was semi-retired.

    SC: I know what a good horse looks like I see them all the time on the tv! And she wants to do J-U-M-P-I-N-G (said really slow like I’m stupid or something) not dressage.

    Me: I’m aware but jumping comes after flatwork is satisfactory because of the risks otherwise involved. It will likely be at least a year before she’s allowed to jump even an small X.

    SC: I know that’s not true! -blank character- won -insert high stakes Olympic level event- after just a year of training.

    Me: The girl in question had been riding for years previously and started when she was still a toddler. The horse was the one new to that particular event.

    SC: that’s impossible it was based on a true story!

    Me: yes, based on. Not an exact copy of events. It is physically impossible to achieve something of that caliber without starting young. This is because the sport puts so much stress on the body at competition training that it will actually force the body to alter its physical structure. Which is why it’s important to start when the body is still growing before the teenage growth spurt so that the body can then handle the stresses put on it. There are exceptions but these are from people who have stressed their body in other ways when they were young, ie ballet, gymnastics, certain martial arts.

    Seeing a mother daughter combo coming by, mother being the non equestrian and the daughter still riding I ask her to dismount. Since it’s hot out most people are wearing as little as possible. This pair is one of those parent/kid combos where the kid is basically a clone in appearance. And I thought they’d do well.

    Me to helpful pair: mind demonstrating the effects of riding when started early?

    Helpful pair: sure. I’ve used them before for the same purpose but different reasons.

    Me: see how straight her back is? At this point she’s probably incapable of curving her spine forward without hunching her shoulders up. If you look at them from the side the rider has a duck butt while the mother’s spine is a normal curve. See how the riders feet are pointed out? That’s because of how they sit in the stirrup makes it very hard to stand on the ground with toes forward. *i get them to walk a circle around us*. See how the rider drags her heels when she walks? It’s because the muscles behind the knee and ankle have lost a lot of their elasticity while the ones ahead of the knee and ankle have become less elastic. It helps reduce stress to the body in the saddle. See how her hands never really uncurl? There’s a reason when interviews at Spruce meadows are given it’s from the waist up while standing in one place. Helpful rider here has spent between 8-12 hours in the saddle since she was 4 years old.

    Another thing is that if you want to go competitive there will be injuries and there will be concussions. There’s no way around it. One of the first things we teach before we even go into how to hold the reins is how to fall off properly to minimize injury.

    How old is your daughter? (Something I probably should have asked earlier)

    SC: 15 but she’s a natural! I just know it.

    *Sucky Daughter joins parent*

    Me *looks kid up and down* I can tell you that unless your talking mentally, physically she will have a lot of hard work to do as her body type is not ideal for a jumper/hunter.

    SC: are you calling my daughter fat?!

    Me: No, im saying with her shorter arms and large breasts she will find balance difficult and rein length and contact with the horses month will not come naturally. Those long legs would be good for dressage though. The narrow hips might make sitting the trot a challenge. So no, physically she won’t be a natural for jumping. That’s not to say she can’t jump she most certainly will but you are going to have to put serious work into to compensate for your body’s natural tendency to lean forward and get used to having a longer contact since your arms are short. Too long though and you’ll flap like a bird, too short and you will pull yourself out of position.

    Daughter: you can tell that from body shape?

    Me: there’s pros and cons to having certain attributes bigger boobs means more weight up front which can be hard to compensate for when you’re already be asked to do so much else with your body for instance. It’s not impossible but another obstacle to overcome.

    Daughter: looking doubtfully at the horse (yes wind blown winter coat is not exactly attractive like the perfectly clipped hunters/jumpers at spruce.)

    Me: how about I hop on and show you what he’s actually capable of (totally not using this as an excuse to climb on a horse.)

    SC: *watches me slip the halter on and pull the blanket off. Clips reins on to halter cuz I’m lazy. Quickly gives hooves a pick cuz I’m not that lazy. And climbs on.* But there’s no saddle no bridle?! (How can this be?!)

    Me: I don’t need it. Particularly on this horse. *does basic warm up, old dressage test, and then proceeds to try (rather poorly because dressage is NOT my thing. If I wasn’t bareback I couldn’t sit the trot properly I’m that bad at sitting trot) to copy Fuego Xll Kur Grand Prix Freestyle at Kentucky 2010. It’s a very very iconic performance (and he was totally undermarked for it) so either the rider/or mother pulls up the YouTube video and blasts the music. It also shows off the Andalusians natural movement so well.

    Anyway, I get off and ask if they still want an assessment.

    Daughter wants to ride bareback now to which the answer is the polite version of hell no.

    And proceed another hour of “but this movie....” by the time they finally got it through their heads that movies are not a sound base for what a sport entails my next lesson was heading into the barn so I had to tell them if they wanted that assessment that it would have to be scheduled in as my next lesson was here.

    Que bitching whining and moaning about how they don’t have time...! Yet they still want to see a lesson. Whatever they wanna watch there’s no cost there.

    -afterwards-

    Que whining about how I was so mean and how I yelled at someone to stop and blah blah blah. “That’s not what the instructor in such and such movie did”

    What part of you are sitting precariously on 1500lbs of muscle that has a strong flight over fight response and can kill you or worse with a single misstep can’t people figure out. We literally have a wall of people who started at our barn, went on to a professional career and ended up seriously injured or dead because of a single misstep or accident.

    Rant complete. All in all there’s a reason I train the horses and don’t interact with the idiots who half the time end up wanting them. People are dumb. If it weren’t for our ability to procreate like rabbits then we would have died off as a species eons ago.
    Don’t worry about what I’m up to. Worry about why you are worried about what I’m up to.

  • #2
    Well done on attempting to educate the seriously misinformed, and kudos to the helpful pair for trying to assist.
    This was one of those times where my mouth says "have a nice day" but my brain says "go step on a Lego". - RegisterAce
    I can't make something magically appear to fulfill all your hopes and dreams. Believe me, if I could I'd be the first person I'd help. - Trixie

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    • #3
      I must say this is one of those rare posts where I get to learn something new on top of a customer's stupidity. Your SC sounds like she stepped right out of the before segment of a Farmers Only ad.

      I like horses but I don't even known the first thing about riding. I'm afraid I'd get too nervous and spook the animal. But feeding them carrots and hay? I'm all over that.
      Don't waste time trying to convince someone that the sky is blue.

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      • #4
        That information about posture and body development was interesting.

        I own a gem of a book called Riding Astride for Girls , published in 1923. It explains why riding astride is not injurious and why it’s better for safety in a lot of instances. But the author does acknowledge that many women prefer to go back to side saddle when they get older and their center of gravity changes. She also says that a woman who is learning to ride as an adult, and who doesn’t intend to be more than a casual rider, will probably do better with a side saddle. She gain gain confidence faster by having all that structure to keep her in the saddle and she won’t be discouraged by the “long apprenticeship” needed to become proficient in a regular saddle.

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        • #5
          Quoth TheWolfEmperor View Post
          I must say this is one of those rare posts where I get to learn something new on top of a customer's stupidity. Your SC sounds like she stepped right out of the before segment of a Farmers Only ad.

          I like horses but I don't even known the first thing about riding. I'm afraid I'd get too nervous and spook the animal. But feeding them carrots and hay? I'm all over that.
          Very much the same here.

          I would have been so tempted to tell them "Then go get instructor from Movie A and rider from Movie B to train your kid, because she's definitely not getting lessons here."
          Customer service: More efficient than a Dementor's kiss
          ~ Mr Hero

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          • #6
            Add

            Quoth Pixelated View Post
            Very much the same here.

            I would have been so tempted to tell them "Then go get instructor from Movie A and rider from Movie B to train your kid, because she's definitely not getting lessons here."
            If they do get the "real" movie people they will find out can't afford the lessons in the first place.

            It is not just horse riding, too much of the general public do not realize how much training or learning goes into different skill sets. I watched my machine shop teacher do in 15 minutes what took me 3 months to learn to do poorly. I just tried duplicating a design last week, it was wrong, I destroyed $500 of Li-Ion batteries because I forgot one tiny thing. I had people tell me the programming is easy, I/ just give they the stack of books I use, if it is easy all the information you need is there, go ahead, I am not stopping you.

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            • #7

              It is not just horse riding, too much of the general public do not realize how much training or learning goes into different skill sets. I watched my machine shop teacher do in 15 minutes what took me 3 months to learn to do poorly. I just tried duplicating a design last week, it was wrong, I destroyed $500 of Li-Ion batteries because I forgot one tiny thing. I had people tell me the programming is easy, I/ just give they the stack of books I use, if it is easy all the information you need is there, go ahead, I am not stopping you.
              I used to do wood shop in school (still do a bit) and it’s amazing how much time and effort go into even ‘simple’ things. Never mind the training on every single tool and then the safety requirements. Whether it’s a sport, a trade, hobby, etc it takes training to do. The whole point of ballet is to give the illusion of effortless grace. Is it easy? Hell no. Military requires you to not only know the tools of your profession but to retrain how your mind works. To think in ways that may not be natural to you. It’s not something you can shrug your shoulder and go I’m going to learn that today.

              Horseback riding, dance (certain varieties), and gymnastics are three of the only careers sport/hobbies where if you were to look at just the skeleton post mortem you could tell what they did. All three will warp the bone structure and even change the density of the bones. They will leave a very obvious mark on the body.

              I know for horseback riding, those who do it as a family inheritance so to speak over the generations actually start to see mutations from birth because it’s so hard on the body it forces evolution. The body is under so much stress that nature is forcing it to evolve to compensate.

              Hell, even something that seems so simple in theory when tried reveals just how far down the rabbit hole you have to go just to make it look serviceable never mind making it actually functional. As I found out in grade 5 when I thought I’d check out how well Sun Tzu’s Art if War really work (amazingly well when implemented properly) and I ‘united them [classmates] under one banner’ and we decided to build a Viking Ship.

              It was not simple.

              Oh just take this piece, cutout that chunk line it up stick the metal bit in the hole bit and hammer like hell until the metal flattens? Easier said then done. Measure this at that angle and cut...without powertools... through white oak... what’s is numbers and how do I use them again?

              But ya know what, I don’t regret it at all. And I learned important things like don’t look away from what you’re hammering. Hand tools are evil when it comes to large projects. White Oak is an abomination and one should never attempt to cut through it with anything other then power tools. Particularly if it’s thicker then you are. Oh yeah, teamwork and motivation stuff.

              Also the theory that you can’t get lost if you keep land in sight only works if you are playing a video game.
              Don’t worry about what I’m up to. Worry about why you are worried about what I’m up to.

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              • #8
                People are the same with almost any trade. "Why should I pay you that amount, it didn't take you that long to do it".
                They never take in to account your training, experience and ability. They think you should be paid solely on the time it takes you to do something.

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                • #9
                  And of course the classic joke from computer science: "$1 for the chalk, $1000 for knowing where to make the mark".

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                  • #10
                    or $1 for whacking it... $999 for knowing which bit to whack...
                    The Copyright Monster has made me tell you that my avatar is courtesy of the wonderful Alice XZ.And you don't want to annoy the Copyright Monster.

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                    • #11
                      Quoth Kit-Ginevra View Post
                      or $1 for whacking it... $999 for knowing which bit to whack...
                      If I got paid that, I'd be a millionaire by now.
                      "I don't have to be petty. The Universe does that for me."

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                      • #12
                        Quoth Dave in MD View Post
                        People are the same with almost any trade. "Why should I pay you that amount, it didn't take you that long to do it".
                        They never take in to account your training, experience and ability. They think you should be paid solely on the time it takes you to do something.
                        I had variations on this same argument with my late mum when we used to go to craft fairs and the like. She'd moan about how expensive things like scarves and rugs were, and I'd point out that if they're hand made you can't just charge for the materials, you also have to charge for the time because the artists don't work for free. Depending on the item, it can take dozens or hundreds or even thousands of hours of work, all of which has to be included in the price.
                        "It is traditional when asking for help or advice to listen to the answers you receive" - RealUnimportant

                        Rev that Engine Louder, I Can't Hear How Small Your Dick Is - Jay 2K Winger

                        The Darwin Awards The best site to visit to restore your faith in instant karma.

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                        • #13
                          Quoth AkaiKitsune View Post
                          The whole point of ballet is to give the illusion of effortless grace. Is it easy? Hell no.
                          Former bun-head, can confirm. Turn out (from the hip, not the knee), engage core, lengthen spine, support arms. Now bend your knees and keep all the above without tucking the pelvis under or rolling your arches. Don't forget to smile! Congrats, you've now done a very basic demi plié. A little more to it than just bending your knees.
                          I am no longer of capable of the emotion you humans call “compassion”. Though I can feign it in exchange for an hourly wage. (Gravekeeper)

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                          • #14
                            I loved horseback riding as a kid, but better believe I understood that my once-a-week (sometimes twice a week) lessons would never make me a star. I never tried to compete in the slightest, and my single claim to fame was helping to exercise and keep in training a horse who's owners spoiled and overfed him treats like crazy. Adults couldn't ride him because the stable owner was worried they'd be too heavy and hurt the overweight horse (he was a bit of a smaller horse too). Most kids couldn't ride him, because the owners allowed for too much bad behavior, and he'd end up throwing the kids. So the stable-owner had me ride him, because I was light, but had enough training not to put up with his tricks. (He liked stopping all of a sudden from a trot or canter to rub his face on his knee.)
                            Last edited by bankworking; 09-02-2019, 05:28 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Quoth bankworking View Post
                              I loved horseback riding as a kid, but better believe I understood that my once-a-week (sometimes twice a week) lessons would never make me a star. I never tried to compete in the slightest, and my single claim to fame was helping to exercise and keep in training a horse who's owners spoiled and overfed him treats like crazy. Adults couldn't ride him because the stable owner was worried they'd be too heavy and hurt the overweight horse (he was a bit of a smaller horse too). Most kids couldn't ride him, because the owners allowed for too much bad behavior, and he'd end up throwing the kids. So the stable-owner had me ride him, because I was light, but had enough training not to put up with his tricks. (He liked stopping all of a sudden from a trot or canter to rub his face on his knee.)
                              A the good old tuck and fuck. I remember when my sadistic (but still awesome) instructor decided to break me of the bad habit of leaning forward on transitions. At the time I had been begging for a bareback lesson as I found bareback much easier. He knocked out two birds with one stone and gave me my bareback lesson....on the evil demon pony who bucks on transitions. You can bet I learned pretty fast to sit my ass down if I didn’t want to get up close with the ground. Never had a problem leaning forward on transitions after that or even jumps when they got bigger.

                              Quoth jedimaster91 View Post
                              Former bun-head, can confirm. Turn out (from the hip, not the knee), engage core, lengthen spine, support arms. Now bend your knees and keep all the above without tucking the pelvis under or rolling your arches. Don't forget to smile! Congrats, you've now done a very basic demi plié. A little more to it than just bending your knees.
                              Did ballet for 10yrs to support a friend who wanted to be a prima ballerina. I had probably the worse body type for it though I did have flexibility going for me at least. When she got taken up by some fancy smancy company I dropped it and never looked back. Between the training involved in being a rider on the pro circuit and ballet I was in so much pain by the end of the day. Even the teacher was like are you masochistic o something because you are clearly not cut out for this. And I was like ignore me I’m here for moral support not to make a career out of it.

                              Also, the buns, why would they never work for me?!
                              Last edited by EricKei; 09-03-2019, 02:41 AM. Reason: merged consecutive posts
                              Don’t worry about what I’m up to. Worry about why you are worried about what I’m up to.

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