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  • #16
    Essay time! All of the following comes from the knowledge I've gained from a lifetime of being involved, in various ways, with Judaism. Some of it may be filtered through the understanding or beliefs of the people (ex-girlfriend/rabbinical student, husband/grandson of a cantor, Jewish-born aunt/historian) I've known, and may not be 100% accurate as someone else sees it. Please keep in mind that although I considered conversion, my beliefs were never strong enough to warrant it, so my knowledge is truly that of an interested layperson.

    If there's a blood spot in the egg, it is to be considered treyf (or non-kosher). Blood is not allowed in any kosher preparation. It's why kosher butchering is so difficult - there are a number of rules about how the animal is killed, how the blood is drained (and how it's determined to be completely drained), and how the meat is packaged and stored. The rules are strict enough that a Muslim can eat kosher food and still be following the rules of halal. Given that in a lot of places in America, it's more likely to find a kosher preparation than a halal one, this is a convenient allowance.

    Nearly all the laws are the equivalent of food safety + humane treatment. It's really quite fascinating. And the interpretation of the laws differs depending on the system of beliefs held. Someone who is extremely observant (occasionally called Ultra-Orthodox or frum; I believe Shalom would fall into this category) would follow the laws to the letter as well as the spirit, as they were originally laid out in Leviticus. In the previously mentioned story about a genetically-engineered pig, they'd likely fall on the "it's still a pig" end of the spectrum. They may also probably lump poultry or other non-mammal meat in with the glatt category, to be on the safe side. Someone who falls into the Conservative movement would be observant, but more to the spirit side of things, rather than the letter (although I believe some Conservatives, such as my ex, fall more on the Orthodox side). The Conservative movement actually tends to re-interpret the laws after much debate and discussion amongst their rabbinical council. It's quite the spectrum of beliefs, and many sermons at shul raise controversial issues regarding the laws.

    Reform and Reconstructionist sects are really quite different. Many Reform Jews don't follow the laws of Kashruth at all, believing them to be an artifact of a different time. The majority belief is usually that the Torah is to be interpreted solely based on current societal constraints, and that anything can be rendered invalid by modern laws and regulations, i.e. dietary laws are "pointless" because of modern food safety. Reconstructionists (and I say this, having had an uncle-by-marriage who was a Reconstructionist cantor) are the hippies of Judaism. Many of them follow abbreviated dietary laws, though usually more along the lines of vegetarianism or veganism. To wit: there's a rather large Reconstructionist community in Woodstock, NY.

    Nearly all the dietary laws are laid out in Leviticus; yes, the same place where the proscriptions on homosexuality are established. The laws are mostly of the "don't do this" sort, rather than the "do this." It's easier to proscribe something than it is to allow it. If you have a bible or Torah at home, read through Leviticus. It's a fascinating study of how to set up a dietary culture to ensure the highest level of food safety in a time before refrigeration.

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    • #17
      Thanks KiaKat. Learned my something new for the day.

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      • #18
        Quoth Dreamstalker View Post
        I noticed that my store has a separate brand of spices in the kosher aisle (mainly for Passover IIRC). Is there such a thing as kosher and non-kosher spices?
        More a question of "kosher for Passover" than just kosher. Most pure spices (McCormick, etc.) are kosher certified, though blends might have other stuff in them, or perhaps made on the same line as the bacon bits.

        The problem arises because Jews of Ashkenazic decent (i.e. northern and eastern European) customarily do not eat grain-like substances on Passover, e.g. rice, corn, legumes such as peas/beans, etc. even though they are not technically forbidden, and mustard seeds fall into this category. Some authorities ban coriander seeds as well, though most permit them. An explanation is found here.

        Sorry for dragging the other thread off-topic; I'll try to post a link to this board instead next time.

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        • #19
          sms, lol. If you are Christian but not Catholic, you don't even have to worry about that one!

          This thread is very educational and I find it fascinating.
          "Is it hot in here to you? It's very warm, isn't it?"--Nero, probably

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          • #20
            Oh lord. I didn't even get into the Kosher for Passover bit. That's a whole other set of rules, which are even MORE determined by whether one is Ashkanazim or Sephardim. The majority of my personal experience, though, is Ashkanazim, so my interpretations come from that area. I'm not entirely clear on the reasoning behind banning all grains (or certain sets of grains) beyond the idea of ensuring one does not consume any potentially-leavened product. Sort of a CYA measure.

            Shalom, I'd love to hear a breakdown of the reasoning, if you have the time (and inclination) to type it all up.

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            • #21
              Quoth KiaKat View Post
              Shalom, I'd love to hear a breakdown of the reasoning, if you have the time (and inclination) to type it all up.
              I'd give you the Pilpul according to the Meshuggahnishi Yogi...
              I am not an a**hole. I am a hemorrhoid. I irritate a**holes!
              Procrastination: Forward planning to insure there is something to do tomorrow.
              Derails threads faster than a pocket nuke.

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              • #22
                Going by what the guy I was living with said was the reason for so many of the whacked rules is appearance.

                You can't even give the appearance that you might be breaking the kid in its own milk, so they started not cooking any form of quadruped with white appearing liquid. Then someone pointed out that maybe they shouldn't cook birds in milk, someone might think it is quadruped meat ... then they went with cheese as well, because it is made of milk ... I know a few that won't even do *soy* milk or cheese because someone might think it is juice of quadruped, not juice of bean.

                My thought is you deal with *your* religious hangups, and I will deal with mine. If I cook lamb with soy milk, or make a soy cheeseburger, *I* know it isn't dairy combined with meat. That is good enough for *me*. [though I only kept kosher because I was living with a guy who did. I am agnostic. I will happily seeth a kid in its own mothers milk]
                EVE Online: 99% of the time you sit around waiting for something to happen, but that 1% of action is what hooks people like crack, you don't get interviewed by the BBC for a WoW raid.

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                • #23
                  One thing I've heard is that most cheese isn't kosher. The standard way to curdle the milk is with rennet, which is made from a cow's stomach lining. Because of its source, rennet is regarded as meat. To make kosher cheese, you need to use an alternate curdling agent (I believe synthetic rennet is OK, as are cheeses curdled using vinegar).
                  Any fool can piss on the floor. It takes a talented SC to shit on the ceiling.

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