Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Maybe it's time

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Maybe it's time

    So part of my job is handling enquiries for a driving school.

    We had an elderly person who was referred by their doctor for a driving test, and failed said test. Once they fail this test, they get a temporary licence for a couple of months so they can go seek some driving lessons to help brush up on the skills they've fallen short in. They can then retake the test.

    So this person went for a drive with one of our instructors. This particular instructor is one of our best instructors. This drive went so well it was suggested maybe it's time to surrender your licence (something I don't think they've ever done before). A friend of the person sat in on the lesson and agreed with the instructor.

    Since then, we've been bombarded with calls from various family members demanding we phone little old person to explain what happened in the lesson. We don't normally do this, but given we have the notes from the instructor, we try to call them. They never answer and doesn't have voicemail.

    Eventually the elderly person call us back to complain that:

    - They wasn't taught anything in the lesson. I explain the purpose of the first lesson.
    - We tricked them into taking a test. I reminded them it wasn't a test but a drive to assess shortfalls for them to work on
    - They were affected by driving our car. I get driving in a different car can be challenging, but a) the car we have is incredibly smooth and easy to drive, b) we do this for the instructors safety and c) the issues identified in the drive had nothing to do with driving an unfamiliar car
    - They didn't agree with the instructors feedback. A friend that accompanied you on the lesson agreed with the instructor.

    Then they pulled out this line:

    They've had other products with us for years now and therefore we shouldn't provide this feedback to longstanding customers.

    After explaining in the most diplomatic way what they have with us doesn't really have anything to do with their driving skills, they're threatening to 'take it further' and lodge a complaint.

    Complaint won't really go anywhere except one of our managers repeating what's been said in the notes left by the instructor.
    Last edited by brucetiki; 12-23-2017, 06:46 AM.
    the end of an era is not the completion of a destiny. Momentum comes when we believe the best for the future, we keep speaking life into the future, and we commit to the future - Brian Houston

  • #2
    I get that it's hard to give up your licence (I'm 62 and that will be coming down the pike for me someday) but ya know, it's not all about you.

    We had a horrific case in Toronto several years ago where an elderly woman was driving her vehicle, mounted the sidewalk, ran over a pedestrian, and dragged the pedestrian all the way back to her [elderly woman's] home. The pedestrian died, of course, and I can't imagine what a horrific death it must have been.

    The elderly woman was put on trial, as anybody would have been, and of course at that point her driver's licence was revoked forever. I'm sure her family had been fidgeting around about removing her licence and either decided she would be okay or they just waited too long to do something. So now she's lost her licence plus she went through nationwide notoriety.

    And quite frankly, if your own friend thinks you're a menace on the road ... you can probably complain to the national leader if you like; it won't matter.
    Customer service: More efficient than a Dementor's kiss
    ~ Mr Hero

    Comment


    • #3
      My father agreed, from the opposite coast, to surrender his license and sell his car after he'd had his 3rd accident in one year. For the last one, he did drive up on to the sidewalk and narrowly missed a woman with a small child/baby in a stroller because he never saw them. My brother in Florida and me in California spent a LOT of time on the phone, talking to him about how he'd never forgive himself if he hurt somebody by refusing to give up the car after he was no longer fit to drive it.

      After getting him a senior citizen workup at the Dr (I spent HOURS on the phone from California to Connecticut on Christmas Eve that year, arranging meals at a local senior center, arranging medical coverage and social worker help, etc.) it was found that he'd had a stroke that took away the right side of his field of vision in both eyes, so it didn't matter if he looked vigorously from side to side, he was a driving disaster, and it was really lucky he didn't hurt himself, let alone anybody else! Mission achieved, and he took the bus from then on until he died.

      My mother, on the other hand (close to me geographically, so I had a much bigger hand in this) got her car keys taken away from her when I picked her up from rehab after her 2nd hip replacement, and she thought she would be driving the next day. She had forgotten that there is a 90 day driving ban after that surgery, refused to believe me, and I reached over and took the keys away. She never got them back again, because we discovered that she was in early dementia and couldn't live alone any longer either, so ALL kinds of things changed up in her life, not just losing the car. It was a very rocky 18 months or so.

      I hope dementia doesn't hit me and that I'm sharp until I'm dead, but if it does, I hope one of my kids sits me down and lays down the law, and takes MY keys from me. I won't like it, but I'd like it less if I hurt somebody.

      Comment


      • #4
        Two parents down (mine), and two to go (the in-Laws).

        My father had a stroke and lost part of his peripheral vision. He gave up the motor home at that time. Appeared to do good with a small car. He complained a lot when we told him he could no longer drive between Illinois and Texas (summer & winter homes), but gave in. He could not stay awake for more than four hours. He voluntarily stopped driving at night. He started letting someone else drive whenever possible,

        My Mom's dementia had me worried. I told Dad that he should hide the car keys. I was sure that she would think that she was 29 again and try to drive somewhere. He never did hide the keys. Luckily, she never did.

        Neither of them had an accident or a police incident in the last 20 years of their lives. My Mom was 86 & my Dad was 93 when they passed.

        brucetiki,
        I am glad that there are people like your employer that help with these situations. Sorry you had to go through that.
        Life is too short to not eat popcorn.
        Save the Ales!
        Toys for Tots at Rooster's Cafe

        Comment


        • #5
          I had an uncle who was crossing the street in a crosswalk, he was killed by an 88-year-old driver. The driver's family "didn't dare" tell him he needed to quit, as he was the patriarch of the family.

          For my patients over 85 or if they are younger but seem impaired physically or cognitively, I have a test. I tell them try to catch, using their dominant hand, a ruler dropped vertically. If they can't catch it in 3 tries, their reaction time is impaired, which gives me the right (and the legal responsibility) to send a letter to the DMV requiring an on-the-road driving test.

          You'd think the families would be relieved that I'm willing to be the bad guy and stop their elderly, infirm relative from driving. Oh, no no no neeny no no. They are usually stone cold FURIOUS. I point out I'm not telling the patient they cant drive, they just have to take a test to prove they are OK. It's an easy test. If they are as good a driver as their family maintains, they will pass it. That, of course, never mollifies them. Cue the negative Yelp review, letter to the editor, etc.

          My dad finally quit driving at age 91, after we agreed to pay top Blue Book to buy his beat up old car. His doc wouldn't send the letter and in my state, it has to be a doctor who is not a relative. In California and Montana, anyone can send a letter to the DMV complaining about someone's driving. Must make for some interesting neighborhood feuds....
          Last edited by skeptic53; 12-23-2017, 10:25 PM.
          Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints...
          TASTE THE LIME JELLO OF DEFEAT! -Gravekeeper

          Comment


          • #6
            Quoth skeptic53 View Post
            His doc wouldn't send the letter and in my state, it has to be a doctor who is not a relative. In California and Montana, anyone can send a letter to the DMV complaining about someone's driving. Must make for some interesting neighborhood feuds....
            Here it has to be doctor referred too (though I think the cops can also do a referral if someone's caused an accident). It used to be everyone over 70 got a test every couple of years, but that proved too expensive for the government to maintain, so they went back to doctor referrals.
            the end of an era is not the completion of a destiny. Momentum comes when we believe the best for the future, we keep speaking life into the future, and we commit to the future - Brian Houston

            Comment


            • #7
              Three comments

              Here in Ontario once you reach 80 years old you have to take a test every couple of years to keep your licence. When my mom had to study for the written test it refreshed all sorts of things she had forgotten over the years. I think they had been driving the same routes so long she did it on automatic. Once she started the study for the tests she kept commenting on all the signs, pavement marking and signals that is the past she had just skipped over.

              When my dad had his stoke he was not allowed to drive. One day I was driving him to a friend and stopped at a STOP sign. My dad asked me why I stopped so I pointed to the STOP sign, he looked right at it and said "I don't see any sign.". The stroke had made the sign invisible to him. He was not safe to drive.

              Two years ago I had a stroke, I am recovered now but I could not drive for months. Why? They gave me a vision reflex test, I stood in front of a large disk with lights on it and a light would randomly light up and I had to push the button right below that light.
              I saw every single light, and I had pushed all the right buttons - yet I failed the test - because of the stroke whenever a light in the upper left-hand corner went on the computer measured my delay and for that corner my delay was large. Note, I never noticed I was delaying but I was. If I was driving that could mean I would not respond to a traffic light in time.


              Strokes can be strange in how they affect us.
              Last edited by earl colby pottinger; 12-24-2017, 01:49 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                earl: I'm sorry to hear about your situation but you seem to be taking it extremely well.

                skeptic: these families are in water up to their eyeballs and staring at the Pyramids. I wonder how they'd respond if they were told, "Fine, your family member can keep driving but he/she is now on your insurance ... so if he/she causes an accident, your premiums will go through the roof."

                I tried to tell my brother (our mother's Power of Attorney) that we had to get her off the road, but he kept dawdling, which frustrated me no end. I visited, I think, more often than he did and I could see that she should not be behind the wheel.

                Well, then she got in to an accident. Luckily it was not a serious one and nobody was hurt. And even more luckily, the police decided both drivers were at fault. Mom seemed to feel it should all have been on the other driver's head (she told me that the officer was too busy "flirting" with the other driver to report it properly ... uh-huh ... )

                She was past 80 at that point so was told she would have to take a written test. I was extremely happy when she said she wasn't going to take the test. I think at some level, she knew she needed to stop driving.

                The sad part is that once that happened, she turned into a recluse. People could come into the house, but she would not leave it ... wouldn't take a cab anywhere, wouldn't even go out with her neighbours/friends for lunch anymore. I'm pretty sure the dementia was starting to bite, even then and her self-imposed isolation just accelerated it.

                I won't say I never drive at night, but I don't drive after dark if I can avoid it. My night vision ain't too great anymore ... and the fact my current vehicle has tinted windows doesn't help. (I'm sure other drivers wonder why the hell I'm always lowering my side window when making a left turn at night, regardless of the weather ... )
                Last edited by Pixelated; 12-24-2017, 03:25 AM.
                Customer service: More efficient than a Dementor's kiss
                ~ Mr Hero

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here, we had a rash of drivers-hitting-buildings a couple of years ago. Seemed like every other week, there was another incident or two. The majority of the drivers were over 65 years old.

                  There was one incident where an elderly woman driver, who was going quite fast, jumped the curb and hit a restaurant. She knocked the building off its foundations. She also denied she was going over the speed limit, but they proved it by checking her speedometer, I believe.

                  A clearer case of "time to stop driving" you couldn't find.

                  If you ask me, the family in the OP here just doesn't want to take responsibility for taking their elderly family member wherever he has to go.
                  When you start at zero, everything's progress.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Reply

                    Quoth Pixelated View Post
                    earl: I'm sorry to hear about your situation but you seem to be taking it extremely well.
                    Well, since that time both of my parents have died and I have recovered 99%. I am safe to drive.

                    Quoth Pixelated View Post
                    skeptic: these families are in water up to their eyeballs and staring at the Pyramids. I wonder how they'd respond if they were told, "Fine, your family member can keep driving but he/she is now on your insurance ... so if he/she causes an accident, your premiums will go through the roof."
                    I would love that be an option available.

                    Quoth Pixelated View Post
                    Well, then she got in to an acident. Luckily it was not a serious one and nobody was hurt. And even more luckily, the police decided both drivers were at fault. Mom seemed to feel it should all have been on the other driver's head (she told me that the officer was too busy "flirting" with the other driver to report it properly ... uh-huh ... )
                    Weird, that is exactly what my mom claimed when she got into an accident. The fact she rarely turned her head completely when checking on coming traffic has nothing to do with it.

                    Quoth Pixelated View Post
                    The sad part is that once that happened, she turned into a recluse. People could come into the house, but she would not leave it ... wouldn't take a cab anywhere, wouldn't even go out with her neighbours/friends for lunch anymore. I'm pretty sure the dementia was starting to bite, even then and her self-imposed isolation just accelerated it.
                    That did not have to happen. When my mom started no driving she had the friends and people from the congregation over all the time, and she had a party in the backyard at-least once a month in summer. As for the phone, she must have been using it 10-12 a day talking to people. People for some reason think they need a car to get around, except for Florida which I found was very anti-walking you can often get around on your feet or by biking if you do not have to deal with winter weather.

                    Quoth Pixelated View Post
                    I won't say I never drive at night, but I don't drive after dark if I can avoid it. My night vision ain't too great anymore ... and the fact my current vehicle has tinted windows doesn't help. (I'm sure other drivers wonder why the hell I'm always lowering my side window when making a left turn at night, regardless of the weather ... )
                    I am not that bad, but I did make the mistake of buying a truck with heavily tinted windows, turns into a royal pain when driving a dark highway with no lights.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks to a cataract, I failed the DMV vision test and had to get a letter from my ophthalmologist certifying that I'm not a menace to society and I had to take a driving test. I can only get a license good for two years, so I've gone through this twice.

                      The test is different form the one fora new license. It's for people who fail the vision test or are reported as having physical or mental problems. The description of the test is available on the DMV web site, so I knew what would happen.

                      They test for cognitive stuff, as well as being able to drive. At one point, the examiner will start chatting about irrelevant stuff, to see if you can talk and drive at the same time. Another test is memory--turn left at the next street, then turn right at the stop sign.

                      You can choose whether or not you want to be tested for freeway driving. If you don't or fail that part, your license is restricted.

                      One examiner told me that one of the worst things about his job is having to tell people that they failed. They usually get very upset--more tears than yelling and screaming--because of that loss of freedom.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No, Mom did not *have* to become a recluse after she stopped driving. I think the dementia that later became extremely obvious was already setting in at that point, though, and I have no doubt that was a contributing factor.

                        Once, a year or two earlier, she and I had been going somewhere -- she was driving and we pulled onto a main road that had construction going on. There were those orange traffic cones everywhere. Mom said, "I can't tell where I'm supposed to be driving!" And she wasn't kidding. She was in a mild panic. I offered to drive but of course she said "No, no, it's fine ..." We got away from the construction area without incident, thank goodness, and we also got home (via a different route) without incident. But that to me was a HUGE red flag. Couldn't get brother on board, though.
                        Customer service: More efficient than a Dementor's kiss
                        ~ Mr Hero

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quoth MoonCat View Post
                          If you ask me, the family in the OP here just doesn't want to take responsibility for taking their elderly family member wherever he has to go.
                          That's usually the problem. The family doesn't want to take responsibility or be "inconvenienced." Sadly, this crap goes on a lot more than it should.

                          For example, when my paternal grandfather started having mental issues, he was still allowed to drive. Even though he wasn't a great driver, he could still go to the store, the post office, etc. Then his mind started failing, and he got lost coming home. He knew where he lived (same house since 1958), but couldn't remember how to get there. He ended up some 25 miles away. Luckily, he was with it enough to pull over and have someone call the police. They ended up giving him a lift home.

                          After that, and taking off both mirrors and scraping up his car while pulling out of the garage, he gave up driving. He never hit anyone that I know of, but my dad and aunt made all sorts of excuses for not dealing with it sooner. Neither one wanted to deal with the possibility of him either having an accident and injuring himself or someone else. They didn't want to deal with ferrying him around to doctor's appointments. They didn't want to take time out of their "busy schedules" to do what they were supposed to.

                          Compare that to my maternal grandmother. She kept driving until she was 90. She had a couple of scares, including one where a guy hit her, and threatened to get her license taken away. She was turning left, and the truck in the right lane decided to turn left also. Legal turn, but he came into her lane, and hit her. Just scraped the car, but it was enough to get her to consider stopping. Sadly, she had no choice a few weeks later.

                          After her weekly bridge game, she fell in a parking lot and hit her head. Rather than call an ambulance, she tried to drive herself to the hospital. She shouldn't have, but she did. Sadly, she had blood in her eyes, and hit a few parked cars. Nobody got hurt, but it was enough to scare her. She realized, that she could have killed or seriously injured someone and voluntarily surrendered her license.

                          Now she was upset, since she was no longer independent. This time though, my mom and I dealt with it. We kept her car, but made arrangements for her. That is, I was already going to her place on weekends, so taking her to the store wasn't a problem. Neither was getting her friends to take her to church, the doctor, or anywhere else she needed to go. I kept the car, because it was roomier than mine, and it was another familiar item to her. Important, because her mind was starting to go.

                          With that said, I can understand why some elderly drivers don't want to give it up. Losing the ability to drive means that they're no longer independent. They now have to rely on someone else, and that scares the shit out of them.
                          Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. --Enzo Ferrari

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My Mom started having accidents in her car "That SUV appeared out of nowhere! I slid on oil! My brakes failed!" I didn't hear about them until long after damage was repaired, until she totaled her little Celica into the back of the mystery SUV. Got a suspended license, had to take 12 (?) hours of one on one senior training, and then a new drivers test at the DMV. She managed to pass that one, but her driving other than around town was much curtailed, as she was frightened.

                            Then, she started being unable to follow directions to get to places she had been to before, despite clear written directions. She wouldn't have any idea why she wasn't where she was supposed to be, she would swear she had faithfully and properly followed instructions, and yet, here she was, not where she needed to be. I think her only long distance driving at that point was coming to see me and the kids, other than that she just puttered around town getting groceries etc.

                            It was about 12 months after that when we ended up taking away her car keys post rehab after her 2nd hip replacement. She never got them back, because we moved her in to assisted living.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I love the idea of putting the older driver on the recalcitrant offspring's insurance. If only...

                              Early in my career an 87-year-old patient wound up living with his daughter. A young man whom he had severely injured in an accident won a big judgment in court that far exceeded his liability insurance. He had to sell his house, his pension was garnished. Neither he nor his daughter were happy.
                              Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints...
                              TASTE THE LIME JELLO OF DEFEAT! -Gravekeeper

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X