Buying a used car

[fireheart]

Any advice on buying my first car? I'm obviously going used.

[Rapscallion]

I'd ask around your friends and see if anyone's selling theirs. Someone you know is going to be more honest about the history of a car than a sales place - I don't mean outright lying, but they're going to be more likely to say that it needs a service in three months instead of saying "It was serviced on this date" (when said date was nine months back).

If you're looking for used cars on car lots, I'd very much look at taking a knowledgeable chum to check it over.

Be prepared to walk away. Have a set figure in mind and only reveal that towards the end of the deal. Your job in the transaction is to get the best deal you can for you. If the price isn't right, walk away. Tell them your financial limit and give them your number, then go - you'd be surprised just how much they can knock off over the phone later.

Remember - used cars usually go down in value by 15% per year. Its losing money for the sales place every day. They want to shift it.

Never admit that you really, really want/need a car. You need to retain the power in the sales relationship.

Rapscallion

[NightAngel]

You should absolutely take someone with you who knows about cars (unless you do yourself). Even then, take someone with you who can talk to/keep the salesman engaged while you actually do the looking.

My hubby and I use this tactic (he knows about cars and is very talkative) while I scour the lot for something we'd actually be interested in that's in our price range. I only directly engage my hubby and/or the salesman when I think I've found something.

If you must give a price range to the salesman- always state slightly lower than what you actually want to spend. Don't let them use this line, "it's really a great vehicle and only a little more than your stated price range." Give an inch- they'll take a mile.

Also, when you find a car you're feeling serious about- take it to a mechanic and have them give it a good look over. Ask the mechanic if he'd buy it for his daughter. Seriously.

Get a vehicle history report.

[It's me]

If you are after a particular car check out the boards on the 'Net for that car... you can get good info on the problems with particular model years, which dealers are good and which to steer away from, etc.

[TheSHAD0W]

Call some small local businesses that have older vehicle fleets; they typically buy from used vehicle companies that specialize in selling fleet cars/trucks. The larger companies sell off vehicles usually before they hit 100K miles, and they regularly maintain the vehicles.

[wolfie]

Also, when you find a car you're feeling serious about- take it to a mechanic and have them give it a good look over. Ask the mechanic if he'd buy it for his daughter. Seriously.

If they won't let you take it to YOUR choice of mechanic (within reason - my last vehicle purchase was from a used car dealer about 40 miles from my regular mechanic, so going to my regular mechanic wouldn't have been reasonable), walk away. If they try to steer you to a particular mechanic, DON'T go to that mechanic. If you don't know a good mechanic in the area, the nearest dealership for that brand of car is a good choice - and if they tell you that the dealership in question is too far away, so the car would be off the lot for too long, walk away.

Jack the vehicle up using all 4 of the jack points - on some cars (e.g. pre-2000 Hyundai products) the jack points will rust out from the inside. They'll look OK from outside, but won't support the car's weight.

Make sure they include all the parts. If a minivan/station wagon is missing the "roller blind" cargo cover, it might not look like much, but that's a $500 part (at least on my car).

For hatchbacks/wagons/minivans/SUVs, are the gas struts for the rear hatch in good condition? On my car, those are over $100 each (plus labour).

Do they have service records to show when the timing belt was changed? Sometimes, there'll be a sticker on the non-PTO side of the engine (front for "fore and aft" mounting, usually the left for transverse mounting) with the date and mileage of the last timing belt change on it. If they can't provide this info, assume it's due for replacement. Generally the replacement interval is in the neighbourhood of 4 years/100,000 km (60,000 miles), whichever comes first, and it's a fairly expensive job (around $600 for my car). The normal failure mode for a timing belt that's past its service life is to run fine, then break without warning - at which point, your engine is scrap metal.

[Jester]

For hatchbacks/wagons/minivans/SUVs, are the gas struts for the rear hatch in good condition?

True that.

My Blazer's hatch struts are pretty much gone, so I have to hold the hatch up, or have a friend do it, and it's a pain in the ass. This happened on my last Blazer as well.

To be fair to Chevy, though, on both trucks it didn't happen until well after the 100,000 mile mark.

[fireheart]

So far all I've been after is mostly a small car to get from A to B.

Thanks for the advice everyone

[protege]

I'd stay away from fleet cars...especially those sold at auction, and if you can't drive it before buying. Yes, they do get maintained regularly. But, they also get abused. How do I know this? The '87 Ford Tempo my family once owned, was bought at a government auction. Car didn't look too bad, and seemed to be in working order. Little did we know that the head gasket was on its way out--it actually failed inside the Liberty Tunnels. Trust me, that wasn't fun...

Cars I'd look at, include older Toyota Corollas, Honda Civics/Accords. All of those have good reliability records, and are usually pretty inexpensive. Insurance on those three is pretty cheap, and they're easy on gasoline.

[tropicsgoddess]

Cars I'd look at, include older Toyota Corollas, Honda Civics/Accords. All of those have good reliability records, and are usually pretty inexpensive. Insurance on those three is pretty cheap, and they're easy on gasoline.

So true! I have a Honda Civic and LOVIN' IT!!! My job is about 45 minutes from my house and I've driven that car even to when the gas needle was so close to the E without it going off on me!

I was in the same boat as you, Fireheart. Definitely take these pieces of advice to heart:

Take somebody you know and trust with you and also somebody that's good with cars (even better a trusted mechanic).

Ask how the start and idling are on the car

When you look at the car, look for any water damage, leaks, cracks and rust. Make sure the lights and signals work as well as the windows (if it's power windows) and doors. (The first car I looked at looked good online, but was a big honking POS when I came to look at it with SO and our friend D, who is a mechanic. A '90 Accord DX 4 door that had a wood block to hold the left driver door mirror with water damage out the wazoo and both back windows didn't work, tons of water damage in the back, oil leaked in the engine and a slight crack in the windshield...and they asked for $1200 total for THAT).

Craigslist is good for finding good deals on used cars, but the best thing to do is always look for the post for pics on it so you get a good glimpse of the car online and when you actually get to come out and see it.

[Mike Taylor]

Get the VIN code off the vehicle (usually on the driver's side under the windshield) and look it up on Carfax.com or whatever your local equivalent is.

That will give you the owner history and make you aware of any major incidents involving the car. I recommend not buying any used vehicle that has had more than one owner.

Also, look at the mileage of the car versus its age. You don't want any vehicle that has been driven more than 12,000 miles a year. 40K is great if the car is five years old, but a bad sign if its only two.

[Seshat]

You're Australian, so check your RAC(X) for your state. There's probably a page like the RACV car buyer's guide for your state.

Make sure you read the part on that site about the Register of Encumbered Vehicles or Vehicle Securities Register. You do NOT want to buy a car then get it impounded as a stolen vehicle, or find out that a bank owns most of it. Spend the fifteen or twenty dollars to get the certificate that proves that you called and checked - if you need it, you NEED it. If you don't, it can sit in your 'car info' file.

Also make sure you read up on the legal stuff about transferring ownership. Knowing what you need in advance is very reassuring.

Check with your local police about which makes and models of car get most commonly stolen in your region, and what the theft weaknesses for the makes/models you're considering are. Give serious consideration to not buying the most-stolen make or model, even if it's otherwise your ideal car.

When doing all your mechanical checks, keep in mind that all you're doing is weeding out the obvious duds. Get your choice of mechanic, or the RAC(X), to do a proper full inspection: they have the tools and experience to do it properly. You're just saving money by not paying for an inspection of a total waste-of-time car.
If their inspection shows that it's not going to be worth buying that car, don't.

Buy a car that's a bit under your total budget, and expect to pay the rest of your total budget to fix it up to your standard. Use the inspection to determine whether your total budget is likely to achieve that.

Buy a car that is mechanically, structurally and important-electrics sound. Non-structural rust spots, scratched paint, torn-but-useable upholstry or a non-working radio can be dealt with at your leisure.

That said, rust around the window frames, door sills, and in the drainage areas around the boot (trunk?) can be indicative of structural rust.
Scratched paint can indicate an accident, which can indicate structural damage.
A non-working radio might indicate deeper problems in the electrical system.
If a car passes all your other pre-inspection tests but has faults like this, point them out to your mechanic.


Continued....

[Seshat]

With all that out of the way...

1. Decide what your most common use for the car will be.
2. Decide what uncommon, but still necessary uses for the car will be.
Choose a car which can do the first comfortably, and the second okay - but not necessarily with comfort.
For instance, if you want to do long haul trips to the Snowy Mountains once or twice a year, but the rest of the time you're commuting to work in the middle of the city, get a small car, but check that the car you're thinking of has the power to get up the mountains safely during the snow season.
As an alternative, price out whether it's cheaper (including registration differences, maintenance, fuel costs, etc) to simply buy the small car for year-round stuff and rent a 4WD for the Snowy trip.


3. Determine your total budget.
Take out the costs of stamp duty, two mechanical inspections, a certificate from the Vehicle Securities Register, and an extra 10% for the unexpected.
Take out another 10%, or even 20%, as the likely cost of fixing the car up to standard.
What you have left is your available purchase price. Hunt around, find out which vehicles that fit your needs have that purchase price. Make a list of makes and models and years.


4. Find the flaws.
Look up car reviews. Talk to mechanics.
Some vehicles have fatal flaws - I once had a car which had a particular type of brake that failed after 15 years, and they stopped making those as spare parts after 5 years of the car being available. So 20 years after the model was no longer available, I had a very large paperweight.
Local mechanics will know which vehicles aren't adequately rustproofed for the local conditions, or have 'fatal flaws', or otherwise are less worth buying than others on your list.


5. Test drive.
Go looking for cars on your short list, probably at dealers. Drive them, long enough to find out if you have a problem with that make and model and year. Maybe the rear view mirror is in just the wrong place. Maybe there's no way to adjust the seat so you're comfortable.
This should make your short list quite short indeed.


6. NOW go look for individual cars.

If an individual car passes everything on this list, it's a miracle. Get the car to your mechanical inspection pronto. However, going through even part of this list will give you a good feel for which cars have been well tended, and which haven't.

• Take a couple of those little flat fridge magnets - the ones that won't do any harm to car paint.
• Take a tire gauge.
• Go on a sunny day.
• Start by looking along the length of the car, looking for ripples in the line of sunlight along the paintwork. This can indicate that the bodywork has been repaired, usually due to an accident. Particularly with old cars, minor accidents aren't a problem (most old cars will have been in a bingle or two). However, if a car has been in a major accident, you probably don't want it.
• Any ripples or suspicious spots, test with the magnet. If it won't stick, the body work has probably been repaired with fibreglass or 'putty'. Small patches of that are fine, especially in places where it's probably a repair of cosmetic rust. Large patches can be a problem.
• Examine the wheel wells, the area around the windows, the door sills, the area around the headlights, for rust. These areas can indicate the presence of structural rust, or of neglect of the car.
• Check that the doors open and close freely, that the latches work smoothly, the window winders (power or manual) work smoothly, that the boot and hood work smoothly. This is another prime indicator of a major accident, or of neglect.
• Look at the underside of the hood. If it looks lightly spattered with oil, meh. If it looks like an oil refinery has exploded, go for a different car.
• If the car is cold, open the radiator cap. If there are bubbles, or an oil slick, on the water surface, go for a different car. Either can indicate head gasket problems, or other serious engine problems.
  DO NOT open a hot radiator!
• Study the tires. Check them with the tire gauge: check the tread depth on the outside, middle and inside of the road-meeting surface of the tire. All should be fairly similar - differences indicate chronic underinflation, chronic overinflation, or chronic alignment problems. If the tires don't have enough tread, you're going to be buying new tires very soon. Mentally add that to the cost of this car.
• While you're there, check the wheel well. Your first few times you'll have no idea what you're looking at, but after a while you'll get to know what looks 'normal' and what looks 'weird'. Also, while wheel wells are inevitably dirty, there's dirty and there's utterly filthy. Avoid utterly filthy.
• Check the boot. There should be a jack in the boot - try it out. (It'll also give you a good excuse to get the owner to show you the manual.) Trial it on all four lifting points - I think someone else in this thread already mentioned that. Great way to test for structural rust.
  Besides, if the jack doesn't work, you'll need to buy a new one soon. You'll also need a tire iron YOU can use to get the tires off your car. (You may need to get that from a car place later on - lots of people need more leverage than a 'standard' tire iron provides.)
• Check the spare tire. It should be in good condition, properly inflated, and its tread should be usable. Many people save a bit of money by keeping one of their old tires as the spare, so if its tread is low-but-useable, that's okay.
• Get the spare tire out and study the boot rust beneath it. (This also doubles as a check that you CAN get the spare tire out of this make and model.)
• Go to each corner of the car. Put your body weight on the corner, then off. Watch the car bounce. You'll quickly learn what's normal and what isn't. This tests the shock absorbers. If it's abnormal, expect to replace the shockies. Not horribly expensive, but it all adds up.
• Have one person sit in the car and operate all the electricals - lights, horn, heck, even the radio. Open the fuse box and check that the fuses are all the right ones according to the manual or the back of the fuse box cover.
• Check the seatbelts. All should work smoothly, and be unfrayed with no visible damage. If the car has ever been in an accident, however, the seatbelts should ideally be replaced (or have been replaced).
  Note: if there's a surface 'fuzz', this can be an artifact of the car having been detailed and the seatbelts retracted not fully dry. See if it cleans off easily. The fix is just to clean them and dry them fully before they retract.
• Check that internal parts that should move, do, and that shouldn't, don't. Seat adjustments, visors, etc etc.
• Check for excessive free play in the steering wheel, for 'weird' feeling pedals, for excessive wobble in the gear stick or handbrake. Don't test drive a car with 'weird' or excessively wobbly controls.

(Continued... test drive.)

[Seshat]

Don't go out alone with a stranger on the test drive. There should always be two of you - and they may want two of them! Absolute worst case, there's one of you and a working, functional cell phone with a single-button fastcall to emergency.
And your family/friends should know where you are, how long you expect to be. Standard precautions.

Make sure you're comfortable in the car. That your arms are in a nice neutral position, that you can see all the mirrors easily, that the blind spots are tolerable.

Drive down a quiet, preferably deserted street. Release the steering wheel, though with your hands ready to grab it in an instant. Watch to see how the car veers. It should veer slightly with the camber (tilt) of the road, but otherwise straight. If not, the steering or wheel alignment is going to need work.
(IE, if the road tilts slightly left, the car should go slightly left.)
(Roads are made with a slight tilt, so rainwater doesn't puddle and instead goes into the gutters.)

Still on deserted streets, speed up, warn your passengers, then do an emergency brake. The car should stop neatly, without skidding, without juddering, with no problems.

How's the U-turns? 3-point-turns? Reverse parks? Normal parks?

Get onto a hill, if possible. Do a hill start. Even if it's an automatic. Then park, and check the handbrake.

If possible, check how the car handles steep hills. Does it drive up easily (for its power/weight ratio, at least)? Does changing gears into a lower gear let it go down at a safe speed without you riding the brake?

If possible, check how the car handles freeway travel. Does it come up to freeway speed easily? Can you change lanes easily? Can you return to normal speeds easily? Are there any judders or strange sounds or other problems at high speed?



Before you leave, collect the compliance plate information, the VIN number, the engine block number, the registration plate, the information on the registration sticker, and the information about the registered owner of the vehicle.
If the seller is not the registered owner, make certain the seller has legal authorisation to sell on their behalf.