Advice sought on jealousy

[Librarian]

Some background: my husband has always liked taking pictures, and since february he's done his first model shoots. I've been jealous of it since it's been with girls a lot prettier than me, but he's always been able to reassure me, and i do *trust* him that he sees it as photographer and nothing happens between him and the girls.
Last week he did his first lingerieshoot (without me knowing of it btw, i thought it was a normal one)

The first picture he posted online was this one - linky
I actually quite like that picture, but i did explain to him i really don't like the idea of him doing lingerieshoots/seeing other girls in lingerie. I said it's not a matter of trust but that it makes me feel really bad/sad/jealous.
He promised me he'd never do nude shoots, and that lingerie was the furthest step he'd do, but i didn't get a promise from him he won't do any more.

Then today, he posted this picture - linky - and i half broke down. I went into his room and told him it was very hard for me when he was asking for my trust and understanding to see a picture that could come out of the first minute of a porn movie.

He just laughed it away. He said "why ruin such a nice day we had together by being mad over this? It's the same shoot i did last week, you're overreacting" (offtopic: yes until now we did have a very nice day spent together)


So i'm asking you: am i overreacting? I do trust him like i said, but i really dislike the fact he's alone with these girls, they undress in a seperate room but still near him, he has "control" over them telling them what to do (posewise)
As long as they kept their clothes on/only changed outer clothes i was actually fine with this. I was jealous at the start but i'd gotten over it for most part, cause i do trust him and i know how much this hobby means to him. I just don't know if i can ever get over the jealousy of a lingerieshoot.

And a second question for advice: are there ways of not feeling this jealous? i know he hasn't cheated on me, i do love him and trust him. I'm the person he decided to spend his life with (we have been together for over 12 years) - they're just models he sees one or two days. Any way my brain can tell my heart that/has anyone here ever used a method to get over being jealous?

[Kheldarson]

Why not ask if on days he does those types of shoots that you can be there too, possibly as his last model of the day? That way you have nothing to be jealous of?

[Tama]

He's getting very defensive and that is not good. He should be rushing to stop if it makes you uncomfortable. There are no ways of not feeling jealous because -- you have every right to be jealous of time he elects to spend with scantily clad women INSTEAD of you! Especially when you have already said how uncomfortable you are with it!

Definitely try to be there.

Trust, but verify.

And no.

You are most definitely NOT overreacting!

[Moirae]

My question to you is this... has he hurt you before by doing something like you're afraid he will do?

See, my husband and I have NO problem telling each other we think someone is sexy. He thinks Allysa Milano is just incredibly mmmmm, and I totally have a thing for Ville Valo because he's just incredibly yummy. Sometimes I see him looking at other girls as they walk by, and sometimes he sees me do the same with guys (and occasionally girls). Honestly, it doesn't matter to either of us.

In the end, it's just how someone looks. It's on the surface and means nothing.

He is the love of my life and my amazing best friend. And no matter how much I may lust after someone else, I would NEVER betray my husbands trust or my morals. He means more to me than anything else in the world.

I am secure enough in our relationship that I have no reason to mistrust him, and I think he feels the same about me. And I know he would never betray me that way.

If you have no reason to distrust him, I think you need to look at yourself and ask yourself why you are reacting so extreme to this.

Of course he's defensive... you are in a roudabout way accusing him of doing something wrong and telling him that you do not trust him (my husband would be so hurt if I did that to him). It's not a matter of stopping the photo shoots, it's a matter of trust. If you actually did trust him, you wouldn't be so jealous because you would know that you have him and no one else will.

And it's not a matter of "choosing to spend his time with scantily clad women", it's a matter of "trying to make it in a tough business where sex sells".

Why don't you offer to attend the shoots "to help him out"?

[Seshat]

If you actually did trust him, you wouldn't be so jealous because you would know that you have him and no one else will.

Actually, I'm going to disagree with you, Moirae.

I've been jealous. (It feels HORRIBLE.) And I paid attention to it, and chased it down in my psyche. And I found out where it came from.

For me, I'm jealous when I'm feeling like someone else is getting attention and I'm not. Or maybe, I'm not getting enough attention, or not the right type. It's nothing to do with trust, and everything to do with attention.

That's me. Librarian: what's behind your jealousy may be trust, may be attention, may be something else yet again. Figure out what's behind it, ask your husband to supply what you need, and everything will (eventually) settle down again.

[Peppergirl]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not at ALL the jealous type, so take that with a grain of salt when I give advice.

I do think you're over reacting a bit. As for him saying the 'why ruin a great day with this'? IMO, he's...sorta right. Sorry. As long as he said it in a light-hearted and non-defensive way, that may be him just trying to get you to chill. Now, if he was defensive and a jerk about it, that's different.

Here's the thing - unless he's given you reason in the past NOT to trust him, give him some breathing room and trust him. Or, better yet, take an interest and say you'd like to go along with him sometimes and NOT just on the lingerie shots. Men (well anyone, really) tend to like it when their partner takes an interest in what they're doing. I think it could really help, and may end up alleviating your fears a bit.

How long have you been together? - nevermind - 12 years. Yeah, that's a long time. Have you had other problems with jealousy before this lingerie business?

[Cia]

I'm guessing that you're thinking that it's possible your hubby will decide that the model posing in lingerie is more interesting than you. While to your hubby it's business, take a some great photos and make some money to spend on the one he loves - you.

Personally I do think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill but than I haven't walked in your shoes. Offer to go with him on some of the lingerie and other shoots, be his gofer, observe, don't dictate and hopefully the green eyed jealousy god will skeedadle.

[Skarredmind]

There is a few things I want to add here.

First off, if he isn't paying attention to your needs then he is wrong for that. At the very least I think he should spend more time discussing the whole thing with you, I can see how you'd react to the whole, "We've had a nice day do we need to go here?" statement. While I don't think he INTENDED for it to blow you off, I can see why you'd feel that way. Discuss it with him, openly, honestly, and because you're speaking to a man, be blunt and upfront about the whole thing. (Honestly I *KNOW* my wife tries to send me signals, and I *KNOW* I miss them A LOT. Its not that I am inattentive, its just a different way that she approaches the issue. Neither side is WRONG, just DIFFERENT.)

Secondly, as a dabbler in photography, and one who's done lingerie, and nudes. If he's a real photographer, he's probably paying more attention to the light, to the composition, and to any number of another details (that would probably bore someone not interested in photography senseless). I've done shoots with Playboy Playmates who might as well have been Mayor McCheese. Yeah, we recognize her beauty before, and after, but in the zone, you only have eyes for the camera, the lights, etc.

Third, there is the "Aha!" moment, that I think you might be missing. My wife was *VERY* concerned when I was taken out for my bachelor party (to a Famous Place in Reading that Howard Stern used to be pretty involved with). I went a few times before I knew her, and a few times after, then one night she had the opportunity to come. (I, of course, was open to the idea.) She came in, sat down, and REALLY LOOKED at what was going on. She turned to me and said, "This is it?" and it was. After that, she never worried about me going again, she had the "Aha!" moment... and in fact she's now sent me out a few times too...

Its 2 and 3 that really prompt me to suggest that you take the advice to ask if you can go and see what's actually going on at the shoots. Not to "check up" on him so much, but offer to help. (I can *ALWAYS* use another set of hands on a shoot, there are things to hold, things to position, and all sorts of other details.) Honestly, walk in with an open mind and see what is *REALLY* going on. I am willing to bet that you'll either think its fun, and get why he likes it better, or be bored out of your mind, and wondering why you were worried in the first place.

The other thing to remember, at least speaking from my own experience (just had our 10th Anniversary in May, but 18 years as a couple) is that no matter how good something looks I *KNOW* that I can't do better than who I have at home. Sure she may not be some 18 year old cheerleader or something, but she has personality, she has character, she's mine, she's my best friend and she loves me. All that stuff means *SO MUCH MORE* than looking at some eye candy (and, at least for me, all that stuff makes her *WAY SEXIER* than anyone else out there. Sure I enjoy looking, but its not a competition, and even if it was she'd win, EVERY TIME.

[Librarian]

Thank you all for the many replies.
The short TLDR version: THANK you, thank you thank you all for your replies. They’ve really helped me out, and we had another very long and open talk about all this which is actually making me feel a whole lot better already.

And now for the superdeluxe long version where I try to answer your questions or reply to your suggestions.

Moirae/peppergirl:

My question to you is this... has he hurt you before by doing something like you're afraid he will do?

Have you had other problems with jealousy before this lingerie business?

Only once have i felt this jealous, and that's over 10 years ago when we still lived with our parents. He had decorated his room in "art" and porn-pictures. We had a long talk then, he took it all down and admitted that yes, all that was just pure turn-on for him, and he could understand me not being happy with it. (he did keep it, just not on his walls, or well not when i was over there at least) He has never cheated on me, or even been sexually active with another girl (we were eachother's firsts) – well, as far as I know, but I actually do BELIEVE that.

Moirae:

If you have no reason to distrust him, I think you need to look at yourself and ask yourself why you are reacting so extreme to this.

I agree. Which is why i made this post to get someone else's POV on it. And seeing it analysed like this has actually already taken a lot of the negative sting i feel out of the equation.
Moirae and cia

Of course he's defensive... you are in a roudabout way accusing him of doing something wrong and telling him that you do not trust him (my husband would be so hurt if I did that to him). It's not a matter of stopping the photo shoots, it's a matter of trust. If you actually did trust him, you wouldn't be so jealous because you would know that you have him and no one else will.

I'm guessing that you're thinking that it's possible your hubby will decide that the model posing in lingerie is more interesting than you. While to your hubby it's business, take a some great photos and make some money to spend on the one he loves - you.

Thank you for saying that. That's nearly word for word what he's told me - it actually helps to hear it from a someone else as well, even (or especially? i don't know) a stranger
Seshat:

Actually, I'm going to disagree with you, Moirae.

I've been jealous. (It feels HORRIBLE.) And I paid attention to it, and chased it down in my psyche. And I found out where it came from.

For me, I'm jealous when I'm feeling like someone else is getting attention and I'm not. Or maybe, I'm not getting enough attention, or not the right type. It's nothing to do with trust, and everything to do with attention.

THIS! Right this. I actually do trust husband to not do anything inappropriate with his models, but still feel jealous about it. I do have to say the last year he’s been more attentive to spend “quality time” like dinner or a special noon away with me since he started doing shoots in general, which helped a lot alleviating the first jealousy I felt with normally clothed girls. Although I’m not sure it’s 100% the reason, but I’m trying to sort it out for myself, and what you all are saying helps out a lot.

Here's the thing - unless he's given you reason in the past NOT to trust him, give him some breathing room and trust him. Or, better yet, take an interest and say you'd like to go along with him sometimes and NOT just on the lingerie shots. Men (well anyone, really) tend to like it when their partner takes an interest in what they're doing. I think it could really help, and may end up alleviating your fears a bit.

I’ve gone to one of his normal shoots and absolutely hated it/was bored of it. He wouldn’t object to me going to one of his lingerieshoots (but maybe the girl might? Dunno) or doesn’t even get mad if I’d pay an unannounced visit. (did that once for normal shoot, with reason to be in the same building actually, not to check on him, but while there I did)

Skarredmind:

If he's a real photographer, he's probably paying more attention to the light, to the composition, and to any number of another details (that would probably bore someone not interested in photography senseless). I've done shoots with Playboy Playmates who might as well have been Mayor McCheese. Yeah, we recognize her beauty before, and after, but in the zone, you only have eyes for the camera, the lights, etc.

Yep, that’s what he sais. He sees them as beautiful girls, but only as objects to be photographed. He claims while taking or working on the pics he’s not the least bit sexually attracted to them. Which for me was very hard to believe. Reading this from someone else, and the conversation mentioned in the first paragraph actually helped out the most of all to set the negative feelings aside. They’re not gone completely, but it’s helped enormously.


Edited to add one more thing: I think part of the negative feeling, and the reason i wanted to discuss this here is the following: Even with his normal shoots, i've have had to defend him and his actions towards most of my family and friends who see his facebook page/posts/photos. Common reactions have been: "Ooh watch out, don't put the cat with the milk" and "i wouldn't let my husband take pictures like that" - i also told him that i expect to have comments like that tonight again while he's gone to toilet/break/... (we are going out with friends who we haven't seen since the lingeriepics and that have been vocal about his shoots both with and without him in the room) and that it's very hard for me to defend him/shrug it off when i feel so negatively about it myself. Actually i do feel a lot more positive about tonight and what i'll reply to those friends.

[sms001]

I will certainly endorse the going along thing. If hubby seems defensive about that, make it clear that yes, it IS partly to put some worries you have to rest. Something along the lines of "Yes, I trust you, but I'll feel less threatened after I've seen how you interact with them. And I'll buy you ice cream on the way home if you let me tag along."

Quickie question. How would you feel if these were swimsuit pics?

[snugglegirl05]

My husband had a similar situation involving the girl in this link... http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...ad.php?t=99586. She was going to school at an Art Institute, and she told him that for one of her classes she had to take photos of someone in their underwear. This was before we got married. He called me regarding this to find out how I felt about this. Considering everything about her *especially what is included in the link which I suspected all along*, I was uncomfortable having her take photos of him in his underwear, and I let him know this.

She chose to take photos of another subject instead.

[Librarian]

I will certainly endorse the going along thing. If hubby seems defensive about that, make it clear that yes, it IS partly to put some worries you have to rest. Something along the lines of "Yes, I trust you, but I'll feel less threatened after I've seen how you interact with them. And I'll buy you ice cream on the way home if you let me tag along."

Quickie question. How would you feel if these were swimsuit pics?

Hubby is fine with me tagging along, but i'd actually (myself) want to ask permission for the model too. Being seen/shot by photographer one thing, jealous gf seeing you in undies might be another


As for swimshoots: he HAD done one of those before. I didn't like it much, but i didn't feel that negative because they were in public places and not posed as sex-object. These lingerieshoots are in an empty building and really do make lustobjects out of the girls (in my eyes)

[mathnerd]

I'm glad you're feeling a little bit better about things. I do concur with the others in that for him, this is a job. My brother-in-law is an artist and he could have a model buck naked in a suggestive pose in front of him, and all he'll care about is lighting, shadows, etc. They get into that "zone". It's work, not play. I've done modeling for figure drawing classes, and I can assure you that at least from my point of view, it's also work.

Somebody else said this, but he's in a business where sex sells. Both the photographers and the models know this. Sure the models are posing suggestively, but they're doing it because they know what the advertisers want and they know they need to give them that if they want to keep working. They're doing their jobs. Hubby is doing his job. The vast majority of the time, that's where it ends.

I think it's great that you two can talk about this, and really, even though you were bored out of your mind on the other shoot you went on, I think it might benefit you to go on one of these shoots, just to put your mind at ease, so you can see that these shoots, just like the others, are purely business.

[Moirae]

I have a question... why does it matter if he's sexually attracted to them so long as he doesn't do anything about it or comes to you instead to finish the job?

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care where my husband gets his motor running so long as it's ME that drives the car. And yes, that includes pictures and movies of naked people doing the nasty (yes I know very well what he's doing on that computer. It's amusing since I know he doesn't mean anything by it) too. In fact, he loves the fact that vampires and my favorite band get me going because HE is the one that gets the benefits. I go to him for the kisses, same as he does me. I've always said "I'd be more worried if he didn't get turned on by other women, because he's human and human beings are meant to find other people attractive."

We don't cease being human just because we put a ring on it.

[Ophbalance]

We don't cease being human just because we put a ring on it.

I once had an older co-worker phrase it to me this way. "I'm married, not dead!" when it came to the appreciation of the opposite sexes appeal.