REALLY people?

[Rosco the Iroc]

So I was running a BSA shooting sports event at one of the camps. I needed to get people to run archery, shotgun, rifle and pistol. So about 7 qualified people as instructors and range safety officers (RSO)

One shotgun guy was a NCNS, but that's why I asked for 2. If you send ME an email asking to help and confirm WHY YOU NO SHOW? Anyway Semper Gumby
(always flexable).

Get the ball rolling on the event I luck out and get an extra rifle inst so somehow missed the 2 months of meetings, emails and FB posts to staff the event his Crew is in, but hey your here and qualed, join the party.

The camp did not want to fund this event so I planned on just camp .22 rifles and a couple pistols we brought.
My RSO brought his AR15. Sweet they care allowed to shoot it and if your offering to let them use your ammo we can do that. How ever now we have a gun that will need some extra explaining beforehand so the new guy will be handy to look after the other rifles and one can coach just this one.
Yea=yea..
Ah where is the suck?
I'm finishing checking targets and turn to walk back to the firing line in time to see my main rifle inst pick up the AR so he and the RSO can tell the good folk about it.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
he stated the obvious telling about the gun..duh. Mind you this inst is also a Chief RSO, so he qual new ones.
Yo I was still down range there will be NO handling of firearms when people are down range.
" but the muzzle is up"
Not when it was on the bench and up/down/sideways, you are handling it!

Both of them repeat this again that the muzzle is up.

This is how people die. My son was there he was he's heard me light people up for this and could not believe I was not going GYSGT Hartmen on them.
Of course with 20 scouts and leaders there I had to self .
OK so you to think this is ok?
YES
Now I have 2 choices. Make a capitol case of out this or get though this event and fix the glitch later. My son was the ammo boss so I made sure he DID NOT give the ammo to them till the range was ready and it pissed them off that he kept taking any AR mags and stashing them to made sure that when they were doing this there was in fact no ammo on the line.
So I got home and woke up at 0430 the next morning PISSED I didn;t make a case out of it and booted them. I was in change of the whole event.
I'm going to talk to the committee char tonight about it. But I know one thing both of them are blacklisted TFN from any shooting event I run. Being I run almost all of them yea...they are done. It's a common range rule, one of my pet peeves and it's on page 12 of our SOP para 2 says exactly what I told them not to do.


So I'm glad the crews some of whom drove over 2 hours to be there still got to shoot didn't have to hear me go off on them high and right, and or having it canceled like this. But I'm pissed I didn't put my foot down and let them see what it looks like when confronted with such a issue and possibly tanking the event.

Plus is I'm getting to refurbish the camps salute cannon breach. It's a old last 1800 Navy gun. I always giggle and think of F-Troop when I get to fire it.

[IT Grunt]

This is something you do NOT screw around with. My father in law and I would bench shoot often and before we moved even an inch in front of the rifle, not only did we make sure it had no rounds, we pulled the bolt and had the safety set. Better safe than sorry on that front.

Those guys handling that weapon while you were down range? Complete idiots. I think a Hartman dressing down would have been epically appropriate in that circumstance.

[Jay 2K Winger]

I'll admit I don't have much experience with guns. My last time handling one was when I got my Riflery merit badge when I was in the BSA, probably twenty-plus years ago. But I know enough to know you always treat a gun as if it is loaded.

And muzzle up? No. Treat the gun as if it's loaded. Shooting a gun up doesn't mean it won't hit someone. Geeze.

Glad no one was hurt, and the idjits who were acting as if they did nothing wrong deserved the banhammer.

[Rosco the Iroc]

I kicked it up the Scout chain of command and just got off the phone with one of the council executives he is not happy but agrees with my concerns and my call. Of course they have to get their side. Actions to take with them is being decided because of past issues they know I would not be doing this for no reason. I have to go to a meeting tonight about a new BSA pistol program and will talk to the chairman about it.

Yelling what the fuck is your major malfunction numbnuts is not quite scout like.
Trust me when I say voice #3 in my head was doing exactly that.

[Nunavut Pants]

Hopefully you had a chat with the owner of the range and said folks are no longer welcome there?

[Shyla]

You have the power. The scouts can have trouble finding people to teach various badges. If some came 2 hours then no one is lining up to teach these badges. If you say you want to stop teaching you probably have all the power.

[Rosco the Iroc]

Hopefully you had a chat with the owner of the range and said folks are no longer welcome there?

It was a BSA camp range. So I kind of did.

[MoonCat]

I've never so much as touched a gun and EVEN I KNOW you don't do that! Holy sh*t they could've killed someone. They're too stupid to be allowed at those events.

[bainsidhe]

I assume that when these instructors sign up, they're informed to follow any and all safety guidelines. Do you REALLY need to spell these out for them? And as an adult who has never held a gun, I have to admit I would easily do some unsafe and idiot actions, just because I didn't know any better. Which is all the more reason the instructors need to be extra picky about safety, since things could turn bad real quick.

Seeing as you're donating not only your time but also your own equipment, I imagine you have some weight about who is and isn't allowed when it comes to safety.

[greek_jester]

I live in the UK where gun control laws are incredibly tight, but even I know better than that!

Although I've never picked up a real gun in my life, from hanging around on this site I've learned:

1) Always act as if the gun is loaded, even if you've taken the magazine out and made sure the chamber is clear.
2) Never point the gun at anyone/anything you don't want dead.
3) Never, ever, ever pick up a gun if anyone's on the range, even taking into account rule 1 (this was also drummed into me when I used to do archery).
4) Never block the barrel. It never ends well.
5) Keep your hands on the grip only unless there is an obvious place created for your spare hand (e.g. machine guns). Guns often have moving parts when they fire, and fingers are fragile.

Did I miss any?

I once got to have a go with a pellet gun and was complimented on my range etiquette.

[Rosco the Iroc]

Really it boils down to these 3
1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction
2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot
3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to shoot

Not official but one other is treat every gun as if it's loaded and follow the top 3.

Had my meeting and his reaction is best summed up as WTF, REALLY?!. He saw my dilemma I faced, there was no good answer but respects my call.
Oh yea this will be addressed.

[TheSHAD0W]

Really it boils down to these 3

Nope. Look up Les Baer's 4 rules of gun safety. They're a bit different.

[Rosco the Iroc]

I'm an NRA Inst, not an Les Baer so it's their rules.
I distill it down to treat every gun as if it's loaded at all times.

So I got an answer from above. I feel better.

· As event coordinator, you were the final authority on safety. Even though I was present, I was reporting to you. Not the other way around.
· This is a black letter violation of the safety rules, regardless of how safely they conducted it.
· As instructors, RSOs or CRSOs; they all had a responsibility to not handle the firearms and to stop others from handling firearms when they saw it occur. And that is doubly true after you raised a protest. And triply true because it occurred in the presence of youth.
· You showed extraordinary restraint that day. You would have been perfectly in your rights to kick them off the range.
· Until they accept that what they did, or failed to do, was a violation and promise to never make that mistake again. Until they clearly agree to that, we cannot have them on our ranges again.

I can't put in the rest of the email but it's getting addressed in a firm and fair manner. We are going to have a sit down, explain the issue and see if they get it, if they do, I might use them again, if they don't see the light, sadly we will have to put on paper and ask them to leave scouting.
I was so surprised this was even an issue I think once the chairman and I sit down with them-there will be a big "oooh" moment and this won't be an issue ever again (with them).

[Bumbershoot]

I have little experience with guns (not because I don't want to, but because I can't afford classes or ammo) but since my parents are nationally certified archery coaches, I know enough to know not to do anything when someone is downrange. Scary that these "experts" are so ignorant of weapons that they would treat them like harmless toys. Hopefully they will let go of their pride and learn a lesson, but my experience with people makes me skeptical that this will happen.

[Rosco the Iroc]

*update*
Nothing has be done about this. WTF really?!
So after reminding him and warning him I would I threw him under the bus to the council.

I'm sick of acting nice.