Apparently I'm against the environment.

[AkaiKitsune]

Usual crazy crowd at work. Lady comes up to the till. Let's call her Crazy Cat Lady, or CCL for short. She's pushing a buggy full of cat litter, over a $100 worth as it turns out. We get into a conversation about our respective cats (I have 3, she has 14 hence the name.) and all goes well for a little while. Then she makes a remark about how damn expensive the bill is. (Well duh, you're shopping at one of the most expensive stores in the freaking city what did you expect) so I make a comment of how glad all my cats are outdoors and she's off…

Apparently I'm against the environment because... I let my cats outside without a leash? First of all, my cats are so damned lazy that the farthest they go is in our garden to rest in the shade, or on the front porch if they want sun. They're so lazy that rather then get up and walk to the shade when they've had enough sun they roll over until they hit the metal rail and slinky their asses down. Only the one cat hunts and it's usually mice in the garden. The ones who have so little self preservation that they come up to the cats when they're laying there and get swiped. (And decapitated, left neatly alined in front of the door.)

So her argument that they poop in everyone's yard is void (they prefer the blue spruce at the side of the house for some reason). The prolific hunting is void because they won't bother to so much as stand up to kill something let alone chase it. And the claims that I'll get stuck with a litter of kittens if I'm not careful? All the animals I have ever owned are fixed (with the exception of my stallion. The mare with twins was fixed after she gave birth) I wouldn't let them loose otherwise. Certainly not without supervision.

Then she went on about how I'm 'probably one of those people who leaves my trash on the ground too.' And how I need 'to be responsible for my actions.' Oh and my favourite, 'don't I know that people like me are why some animals are endangered?'

First of all, CCL I know I'm responsible for keeping the environment clean, just like everyone else. Which is why I don't bring anything with me that I don't take with me or drop in a garbage bin. Second of all, I used to sponsor wild animals that had been rejected/abandoned/ or otherwise left without parents to care for it before they were able to care for themselves (mostly big cats. Until the zoo on the mainland moved and got bigger better facilities. Now they don't need me anymore. Now I mostly take care of birds, squirrels, other small animals, with the occasional deer or every few years cougar or bear cubs. Common native speices in other words. Ones that don't have any injuries (those get turned over to wildarc.) and that are small enough to not pose a danger yet. Once they're big enough wildarc takes over and yes I have a license for the big animals (it's just expired atm because I'm broke). It's been over a decade since I've dealt with anything bigger then a bird (except the damn deer.) because I do live in the city and its just not common to see big cats or bears strolling down the urban environment. I do however live by a highway (hence I get a lot of animals that have been clipped by cars usually coming off the exit. At highway speeds even being clipped most animals end up splat). I even have a fox until tomorrow. (His name is Kitsu-chan because I'm original like that) and I might get to see him again when he's released. (My first foxy. I didn't even realize we had foxes here). So I'm pretty sure CCL is wrong when she claimed I was aiding the extinction of animals...

What I would like to know is how she got from letting my cats outside to animal genecide.

[Dragon_Dreamer]

Ugh, I've gotten that, too. We had MORE animals in our woods back when our cats were indoor/outdoor. When the last of the outdoor kitties got too old, foxes moved in, and they DECIMATED our turkey, groundhog, and rabbit populations. I've seen a single rabbit since the fox moved in. Red foxes are invasive, too, and they don't get fed every single night!

Our current kitties are indoor only, because of the foxes (they'll eat kittens.) The SPCA put it as an adoption condition. Now that they're adults, they're too scared and skittish to be allowed out. One's escaped a couple times, and just hunkered down in a groundhog hole. In torrential rain. And refused to come out.

Still, I've lost some friends in the museum world over my cats. I don't live in the city, and I've *seen* the changes in the ecosystem when the cats were removed. We have FEWER songbirds now, because in addition to the foxes, we now have feral cats. Back when it was the territory of our kitties, the birds thrived. They were always too lazy to climb trees. The feral cats are desperate enough.

[Nunavut Pants]

Well, CCL did have a point. Sort of, if you squint hard and tilt your head at juuuuuuuuuuuust the right angle. Of course, she took that point and sprinted way over the line of absurdity with it....

I volunteer at a local shelter. We recommend STRONGLY that all cats be indoor-only cats. Because there is very strong evidence that outdoor cats (domestic and feral, both!) in general have a major impact on the wildlife population in their area. The songbirds, as Dragon_Dreamer said, are one of the more obvious examples.

Indoor-only cats also tend to live a lot longer, healthier lives. They are exposed to fewer parasites, less disease, and far fewer animals that want to eat them or fight with them.

That said, cats are very much individuals. They seemingly delight in finding statements like "all cats do X" or "no cat ever does Y" and confounding them, by refraining from X and doing Y enthusiastically. Our shelter does not require that cats be indoor-only, we just recommend that. Because everyone's circumstances are different, as are their cats.

So CCL may have started with the seed of a valid idea, but she watered it with the cray-cray and nourished it with BS until it grew into a massive tree of WTFery...

[Cia]

I want video of your kitties rolling and slinkying down the stairs. Sound hilarious.

[Argabarga]

Funny how everyone else is an expert on your life, isn't it?

[Shyla]

I have some problems with specific outdoor cats. It's not the environment. The one near my sister keeps scaring the crap out of me when he comes out from under my car at night. He also won't leave if we eat out on the porch. Same near my parents, he won't go away. I don't like cats and don't want to be around them.

[WishfulSpirit]

Funny how everyone else is an expert on your life, isn't it?

Amen Arga. I had someone tell me that because I identify as Christian, I'm the same as a Trump supporting Neo Nazi and I have to become atheist RIGHT NOW or I can't be progressive. OK then.

[Pixelated]

Direct her to this video.

The first nearly 3 minutes are about honeybees ... but it does get to cats thereafter. Tell her to really sit up and pay attention at about 12:27, where the bit about Macquarie Island (remote island owned by Australia) starts.

[earl colby pottinger]

14 Cats

Did you say 14 cats! How much food are all these animals going to eat? How much kitty litter in she dumping into the garbage?

It sounds like she is doing more damage to the environment supporting what sounds like 14 active cats vs your 3 lazy ones.

[Pixelated]

I have some problems with specific outdoor cats. It's not the environment. The one near my sister keeps scaring the crap out of me when he comes out from under my car at night. He also won't leave if we eat out on the porch. Same near my parents, he won't go away. I don't like cats and don't want to be around them.

My brother has bird-feeders in his yard so was not impressed when local pet cats went "Wow, look, a smorgasbord!" He got one of those super-soaker type of waterguns. He said it got to the point where all he had to do was open the back door and the cat was GONE.

For the past few decades my cats have always been indoor-only critters. Mostly because I don't want to have to go outside and scrape their remains off the road.

Does it save the birds? Probably not, because there are other predators out there ... including winged ones.

[notalwaysright]

Did you say 14 cats! How much food are all these animals going to eat? How much kitty litter in she dumping into the garbage?

It sounds like she is doing more damage to the environment supporting what sounds like 14 active cats vs your 3 lazy ones.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner! I was just thinking, what kind of litter was she buying? Clay? And how is she disposing of it, using plastic bags, in a landfill? Cat food is meat based (hopefully!) so now there have been animals raised just for your zillion cats. Think it through, crazy cat SC.

[Food Lady]

Amen Arga. I had someone tell me that because I identify as Christian, I'm the same as a Trump supporting Neo Nazi and I have to become atheist RIGHT NOW or I can't be progressive. OK then.

Almost the same here. I like to confuse them by saying I lean left because I'm christian. Ah, well; human beings like to put people in boxes.

As for the O.P., I do not understand the progression there. You leave your cats out so that must mean you litter? How are those two things even related? I guess I would not have any more conversations with her, even about cats. "Your total is ___" and that's it.

[AkaiKitsune]

Yeah, people jump to really weird conclusions here sometimes. I was having a convo with a regular once because we both do fostering for WildArc. Namely I do the Cougars/occasional deer and he does bear cubs which are then given back to WildArc to deal with once their weaned and then they eventually re release them. Apparently we were both cruel and sadistic humans for keeping wild animals as pets. Despite the fact that 99% of the convo was about which animals we have raised that were still around according to their trackers and about whether or not either of us would be raising our favs this year or if was going to be the regular small animals (birds, raccoons, and the like). Nowhere in the convo did we refer to them as pets or indicate that we were keeping them past being weaned. In fact there was many many reference made to them being re-released. (And occasionally griping about the strict rules in place to avoid the animals getting too people friendly. Just because we understand why they're there doesn't make it any less annoying.)

[wordgirl]

I generally agree with Nunavut Pants that most cats do better indoors; the evidence for that is pretty clear.

But I can definitely testify that it's not one-size-fits-all. My mom's cat is the last of a feral colony; she's about 87.3 percent tame now (I can pick her up briefly, she head-butts and purrs when skritched) but she HATES being indoors with a white-hot passion. We brought her in for Hurricane Matthew and she yowled for 9 hours straight; before Irma she flat-out evaporated and just came strolling up the next afternoon like "Oh! Was there weather? I suggest you feed me."

Of course, the biggest factor is that it's nobody's business! CCL should've kept her trap shut.

[Android Kaeli]

CCL would not have liked my formerly stray cat, who used to go out at night, do his business, and was ready to come back inside around 3 or 4 in the morning. Only reason he became a fully indoor cat was because something got hold of his tail and took a tiny bit out of it. Plus he was a literal scaredy cat and didn't like coming out from under the bed until several hours after everyone he didn't know, left. Miss that old cat.