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The Doctor Said I'm Gonna Die. So...Who Wants a Beer?

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  • #31
    You've given me some good advice lately, Jester, so I'll go ahead and try to return the favor. I actually have visited a dietician in the past, since I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. (Granted, I really do need to start taking her advice more seriously. For a while, I did, then I slipped, then I figured once in a while wouldn't hurt...you know how it goes from there.) More and more, research is showing that carbs are the key--as in, limiting them is. My dietician recommended I only have a MAX of 60 grams of carbs per meal. The rule is, for every gram of fiber that is in the SAME food that has the carbs, you can subtract one gram of carbs. This is where the term "net carbs" comes from. But eating a high fiber food and a high carb food together does NOT have the same effect. I would try limiting your carb intake to, say, 70 or 80 per meal and see a nutritionist for a firmer number ASAP. Now, I won't lie; carbs are everywhere. Bread, rice, pasta, beans (except green beans or lima beans) sugars, beer or other liquor, breading on any fried foods, flour (have to take into account the flour in sauces like alfredo or cheese sauce too,) crackers, chips, anything crunchy except veggies, basically. And in the veggie department, potatoes, corn and peas. Gluten free is healthier, but NOT carb free, although it may have reduced carbs. A good meal for you on this diet would be a couple pieces of wheat toast in the morning with butter, a fried or basted egg or two, maybe some bacon (you can reduce the fat if you cover a plate with paper towels and transfer the bacon to it immediately after cooking. This also will dry the bacon out somewhat, making it crispier, which I like anyway.) Avoid cereal and if you must have something in a bowl, have steel cut oatmeal (other kinds are processed and lose their nutrient value and have nasty additives.) If you do eat the oatmeal, cinnamon is an excellent and healthy topping, along with either very limited sugar or artificial sweetener (which is largely carb free.)
    For lunch, a wheat bread sandwich (of your choice, egg salad or chicken salad can be yummy or whatever you like,) some veggies or fruit, or instead of the fruit or veg have a bowl of soup (broth based if you are having a sandwich, preferably not loaded with rice or noodles. Some is ok.) For dinner, a nice piece of lean meat or fish, veggies, salad, some rolls or bread, and you are sticking to your diet while having a nice meal. There are many cookbooks for diabetics; you can find all sorts of interesting ideas. And carbs aren't verboten, I even still eat candy. I just limit what I have or have it at least a few hours after any meal and before the next. Eat what you like, just watch how much carb you eat, and it should make a difference. Atkins had it partly right, his mistake was cutting out ALL the carbs. Oh! And as for the nuts, I know you're in Florida, but you could try Oregon's state nut--the hazelnut. Only state in the Union that it grows in, but you should be able to find it. Also macadamia nuts are great, as are almonds with flavoring on them; there are some tasty flavored almonds on the market. Popcorn is also a much lower carb option for crunchy snacking.
    Last edited by Barracuda; 03-11-2012, 08:14 AM.

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    • #32
      Barracuda, that sounds like the type of diet my husband was put on when he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was pleasantly surprised that he was still allowed carbs at all. He thought that he'd have to give them up completely.

      I have a lot of bad eating habits myself. I have a major sweet tooth and I loves me some carbs. Something that's helped me was giving up certain things for Lent, namely all meat except for fish, sodas, candy, and chocolate. While it hasn't been easy, it hasn't been as hard as I thought it would be either. I've been drinking lots more water and tea which isn't a bad thing. I've found that frozen grapes make a good treat. If I'm craving something crunchy, I'll go after some baby carrots. Unfortunately, there is no good substitute for chocolate. So, I just keep it out of the house. You may notice, that I've still allowed myself things like pastries and ice cream and such. However, since I prefer those in chocolate form, I've more or less given them up too. Although, I will allow myself the occasional scoop of vanilla ice cream, if we have it in the house. On Sundays, even though I'm allowed everything on my list, I still try not to go overboard.

      Some pleasant side effects of this, is that overall I feel a lot better, my clothes fit better and I have more energy. I still have a ways to go in the weight loss department, but at least it's going the right direction. If this keeps up, I may stick to this even after Easter. (And yes, I know, the purpose of Lent isn't to lose weight, but, I'm not going to complain if it happens.)

      I guess what I'm trying to say here is that cutting foods out isn't easy. Cutting down on what the doctor said to probably won't hurt though. I'd suggest making the things on the list a special treat instead of something you have every day. You may find that some weeks you won't even bother. Sometimes just knowing that you can have that bacon if you want it on whatever treat day you choose, is enough to help resist temptation the rest of the week.

      Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I know everyone here wants you to live a long, healthy, and contented life.
      Question authority, but raise your hand first. -Alan M. Bershowitz

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      • #33
        My 'healthy changes' technique:

        Make one change at a time.
        Adjust to the change before making the next one.

        Yes, it's slow. It also WORKS.

        So .. look at your whole life. Look for a single factor which you think you can stick with, and which affects cholesterol ratio. Do that. If it takes a month to adjust to it, that's fine. Six months? Still fine.

        Once you've adjusted to it, add another. And another. Every so often, get a cholesterol test.

        Note that some people are 'natural outliers'. Basically, their bodies just run weird. The human body is so complicated that it makes sense that one in a million works just fine with a weird cholesterol ratio. So if you make changes, your body stays healthy, but your cholesterol ratio doesn't seem to 'get fixed', meh. Stuff it.

        Just work on general health, don't let a single number run things.
        Seshat's self-help guide:
        1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
        2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
        3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
        4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

        "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

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        • #34
          Seshat, that's what I've been doing. The most recent thing I've changed is add some decent orange juice to my diet instead of being just a 'oh I fancy it' and I have a glass a day. My previous change was eat cucumber as a snack, meaning I get through four large ones a week (I've run out now, I'm craving some!). Some changes take me more time to get used to than others - I tend to have poor willpower but I've been able to stick with most of them. I don't know how much it's really helping me (i.e. if what I'm doing is too little), but I feel better than I did in university.
          "...Muhuh? *blink-blink* >_O *roll over* ZZZzzz......"

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          • #35
            A quick thank you to EVERYONE for commenting. I know I tend to take comments and address them individually, and sometimes critically, but that's just the way my mind works. I do appreciate your input, folks, even if I don't always agree with it. At least you cared enough to take the time to comment, and that I very much DO appreciate. So again, thanks.

            Now, on to my line-by-line commentary!

            Quoth ParkingWitch View Post
            Two very simple things that have greatly helped with Mom's cholesterol; fish oil tablets and a daily bowl of oatmeal.
            Doc Mike never mentioned oatmeal, but he did discuss with me fish oil tablets. It is something I am considering. On his plan, I would take one a day for a week, then 2 a day for a week, then 3 a day in the third week, building up to 4 a day in the 4th week, and staying on 4 a day after that pretty much permanently.]

            As I said, I'm considering it.

            Quoth MystyGlyttyr View Post
            Personally (and I must preface this by repeating once again that I despise doctors almost as a rule...I know there are a few good ones out there but I've never met any), the whole thing with cholesterol, blood pressure, blood sugar, etc., seems more like freaking voodoo to me than anything.

            Take my mom. Died of a heart attack that was basically "BOOM" and gone. Her heart had been in bad shape for years, they diagnosed her with congestive heart failure when I was a teenager and told her she had basically a year to live, and she plugged along for another decade after that.
            While I am not as skeptical of doctors as you are (I DO have seven cousins who are doctors, ya know), I don't always take their word as gospel. My father was in the hospital for five months before he died....the doctors were amazed he held on that long, figuring he'd have been dead months earlier. My stepsister was in a non-responsive catatonic coma-like state for seven months. Generally speaking, when such things go for longer than a month, the patient never returns. Just a few days after a doctor told my parents that my stepsister would probably not ever regain meaningful brain function, she started speaking. As in, conversationally. She is still not 100%, but she certainly has meaningful brain function, and I've had several awesome convos with her since, and look forward to seeing her again next month.

            In other words, I know that doctors are often wrong; to quote George Carlin, it's all just guess work in white lab coats.

            Interestingly, Doc Mike is normally not the God type of doctor, often prefacing his comments with, "This may or may not work," "Let's try this," "I'm not sure, to be honest," etc. It's one of the reasons I go to him--he doesn't have that God complex many doctors have (see the movie "Malice," for example), and will often admit he's not sure about something. And yet, on this point, he was adamant and unbending.

            Quoth Barracuda View Post
            More and more, research is showing that carbs are the key--as in, limiting them is. My dietician recommended I only have a MAX of 60 grams of carbs per meal. The rule is, for every gram of fiber that is in the SAME food that has the carbs, you can subtract one gram of carbs. This is where the term "net carbs" comes from.
            As great as I am with math, I'm not really a numbers guy per se....what do these numbers translate to in the way of pasta? I ask because, despite being Jewish, I was basically raised on Italian food....we had pasta about 3 nights a week growing up. My mom's best food is all Italian. My homemade sauce is pretty killer, if I do say so myself.

            Now, I don't eat pasta every day, but I DO like a good Italian dinner from time to time, i.e., pasta. Or pizza.

            Quoth Barracuda View Post
            A good meal for you on this diet would be a couple pieces of wheat toast in the morning with butter, a fried or basted egg or two, maybe some bacon.
            For lunch, a wheat bread sandwich (of your choice, egg salad or chicken salad can be yummy or whatever you like,) some veggies or fruit, or instead of the fruit or veg have a bowl of soup.
            For dinner, a nice piece of lean meat or fish, veggies, salad, some rolls or bread, and you are sticking to your diet while having a nice meal.
            I should say I don't usually have breakfast, to be honest. For lunch, while I don't like egg salad or chicken salad, I love tuna salad, and eat tuna sandwiches quite often, either on wheat if I get it from a sub shop, or on rye if I eat it at home. I love soup. Soup is awesome. Even living in the tropics, I eat quite a bit of soup.
            And with dinner, I almost never have bread or rolls in addition to my meal. It's not a health thing...it's just not something I usually bother with.

            Also, as I said in my OP (I think), I don't really eat a lot of sweets, again, not for health, but just because it's an occasional thing for me. Oh, and while I appreciate your suggestion about nuts, generally speaking, I am not a nut guy. Other than pistachios, cashews, and peanuts, I don't really care for them all that much, and even those three are the very rare snack for me (once every few months?).

            Quoth Seshat View Post
            Note that some people are 'natural outliers'. Basically, their bodies just run weird. The human body is so complicated that it makes sense that one in a million works just fine with a weird cholesterol ratio. So if you make changes, your body stays healthy, but your cholesterol ratio doesn't seem to 'get fixed', meh. Stuff it.

            Just work on general health, don't let a single number run things.
            Excellent advice. After all, not everyone runs at the "normal" body temp of 98.6...that is considered an average. Some people run hotter, some colder. (During my checkup, I remember that my temp was 98.4, totally normal, didn't raise an eye at all.) And that may well be with the cholesterol thing with me. Of course, this may not be the thing someone would want to experiment with, because if they're wrong.....oops!

            So, yeah, considering cutting back on some things, increasing others, maybe even trying the fish oil pills, but the idea of ELMINIATING all those things from my diet permanently? Not. Gonna. Happen.

            Again, thanks everyone for the advice and comments, and feel free to keep them coming!

            "The Customer Is Always Right...But The Bartender Decides Who Is
            Still A Customer."

            Comment


            • #36
              Quoth Barracuda View Post
              The rule is, for every gram of fiber that is in the SAME food that has the carbs, you can subtract one gram of carbs. This is where the term "net carbs" comes from. But eating a high fiber food and a high carb food together does NOT have the same effect.
              That's because fiber is actually a complex carbohydrate, so the quantity of fiber is included in the carb reading.

              As for the "Jewish but not Jewish" thing, my father is of Jewish descent, but is non-practicing (and it's my understanding that cultural traditions are passed on through the mother). The only people who would consider me to be Jewish are the German government from the mid '30s to the mid '40s - and from their viewpoint, I'm enough of a Jew to get my as-yet-hypothetical kids (one Jewish grandparent) sent to the gas chambers.
              Any fool can piss on the floor. It takes a talented SC to shit on the ceiling.

              Comment


              • #37
                Quoth Barracuda View Post
                ... flour (have to take into account the flour in sauces like alfredo or cheese sauce too,)
                Momentary derailment of topic- who in their right minds puts FLOUR into alfredo or cheese sauces? Cream, yes. Parmesan, romano, fontina, provolone, cheddar, and other cheeses, HELL yes. Garlic, sure. Touch of white wine, okay. Salt, not so much, the cheese usually has plenty. FLOUR?? Um... if you need flour to thicken your alfredo or cheese sauce you're doing it wrong.

                We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
                You're only delaying the inevitable, you run at your own expense. The repo man gets paid to chase you. ~Argabarga

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                • #38
                  Quoth Jester View Post
                  Doc Mike never mentioned oatmeal, but he did discuss with me fish oil tablets. It is something I am considering. On his plan, I would take one a day for a week, then 2 a day for a week, then 3 a day in the third week, building up to 4 a day in the 4th week, and staying on 4 a day after that pretty much permanently.]
                  If you do try fish oil pills, take it from me, get the "burpless" ones. They're horrifically surprising about randomly resurfacing at the worst possible times, if you don't.
                  By popular request....I am now officially the Enemy of Normalcy.

                  "What is unobtainium? To Seraph, it's a normal client. :P" -- Observant Friend

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                  • #39
                    We're All Gonna Die Someday - Kasey Chambers

                    ... If you're gonna kiss my ass, well, you better kiss it fast ...
                    I am not an a**hole. I am a hemorrhoid. I irritate a**holes!
                    Procrastination: Forward planning to insure there is something to do tomorrow.
                    Derails threads faster than a pocket nuke.

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                    • #40
                      It's a really good thing to see you handling this this way.

                      If more people could handle this like you are, there would be happier people everywhere.

                      So, you don't know me, I don't know you except from your party-guy, happy-man posting...but...I'm proud of you. (And I'm almost half your age )
                      My Guide to Oblivion

                      "I resent the implication that I've gone mad, Sprocket."

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                      • #41
                        As for fish oil, I'm taking some myself. My grocery store had the odorless kind and I just take it with my other vitamins. No nasy flavor and no unpleasant reminders through the day that I had fish oil. The only two reasons I see not to is if you have an aversion to taking pills, or if you're like me and just have trouble remembering the damn things.
                        The original Cookie in a multitude of cookies.

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                        • #42
                          You gotta find that balance between quality of life and quantity of life. Everything in moderation, including moderation.

                          Right now my quality of life is great, even though I'm a smoker and I have hepatitis C and still drink on occasion. (ZOMG just discovered wine) When my quality of life starts to go downhill, then, maybe that's when I'll quit smoking, but right now, I still enjoy it, so I'm not gonna quit.

                          The same with food. I *love* food. I absolutely love tasty tasty food, and to be told I'd have to cut out my favorite foods to *maybe* improve my quantity of life, but in my mind, decreasing my quality? Nuh-uh, not gonna happen. No way.

                          In the end though, it's completely up to you. You sound like you eat a lot healthier than the majority of people out there, and taking it to such an extreme sounds like it would make you unhappy.


                          Also, I don't have an article, my dad brought it up briefly, and it may be something to look into, but they say a lot of the problems we have with cholesterol is not because of all the fatty foods we eat, but all these weird chemicals and such we're putting into our bodies, and they inflame our blood vessels which then the cholesterol get's caught/snagged by these inflamed blood vessels, which causes the blockages and all that fun stuff.

                          Mind you, IANAD, nor do I get paid to be one on TV, plus this is just info I heard from my dad over dinner, but I thought it was very interesting to hear and then come across your thread, so I thought I'd share that tidbit

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Quoth SongsOfDragons View Post
                            I don't know how much it's really helping me (i.e. if what I'm doing is too little), but I feel better than I did in university.
                            To quote my pain physiotherapist: "there's no such thing as too little".

                            You do what you can, within the limits of your body/mind/life. Every little bit helps.

                            And the fact that you feel better than you did when you were younger means that it IS helping - and is motivation to try making one more small change and see if it also improves your quality of life.


                            Quoth Jester View Post
                            Excellent advice.
                            Thank you.

                            but the idea of ELMINIATING all those things from my diet permanently? Not. Gonna. Happen.
                            There's a bakery just downstairs from my counsellor's office. It's also my myotherapist's office (muscle therapy). Every week, A and I appear for our appointments, bearing horribly cream-filled or chocolate-filled or custard-filled gooshy bakery treats; which we eat while we're waiting for our appointments.

                            Our therapists ignore it, or discuss which treat they're getting next, or whatever. My myotherapist recommended an italian bakery down the road further for us to try (and last time we went I had berry cheesecake instead of an eclair or whatever).

                            Our diets are generally good. Our health is generally improving. One indulgent baked treat a week isn't going to kill us - and will do us a world of emotional good.



                            Edit to add:

                            SO JEALOUS!

                            I'm so bloody jealous of you for having a decent body, instead of the damn lemon I'm stuck with.
                            Last edited by Seshat; 03-11-2012, 10:42 PM.
                            Seshat's self-help guide:
                            1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
                            2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
                            3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
                            4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

                            "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Quoth Jester View Post
                              Thank you for not only putting it in plain English, which I understood, but also in a car analogy, which is something I use a lot. Even in cases where car analogies make no sense. This one very much did.
                              Having a medical background helps with the medicalese to english translating abilities, and I like car analogies, I understand cars, I don't understand humans that well. And most people have a basic grasp of car stuff, I can come up with a car analogy for most things simply because it's easier for me to explain(again, not understanding humans very well).

                              Quoth Jester View Post
                              So it seems my body's natural HDL-maker is the equivalent of a Triumph's electrical system, huh?
                              pretty much, that or a bottle of sea foam.

                              And as far as lying to your mom, just explain if she asks, that the numbers were a bit off or high, and that you were given options to fix it, and you're working on it(hey cutting down from eating bacon 7 days a week to 6 is working on it, it's just a slow change, she doesn't need to know you don't plan on cutting out another bacon day until 5 years from now, and doesn't need to know your not following the advice to the letter, it's medical advice, not medical orders)
                              Honestly.... the image of that in my head made me go "AWESOME!"..... and then I remembered I am terribly strange.-Red dazes

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Quoth wolfie View Post
                                ...it's my understanding that cultural traditions are passed on through the mother.
                                I've heard various things, that this thing is passed on through the mother, this other thing is passed on through the father, etc. Funniest was when, as a child, I heard that you were Jewish if your father was but you were Christian if your mother was...and my childhood friend David had a Jewish father and a Christian mother. Even as a grade school child, I saw the contradiction in that one!

                                The fact is that cultural traditions are passed on by parents who want to pass them on, period, be it the mother or the father. You can very well have a Jewish mother, but if she doesn't give a damn about the Jewish culture/religion, you aren't getting any of it. Likewise, if your father is Jewish and he wants to pass on the traditions, and your non-Jewish mother doesn't care either way, you'll get the traditions.

                                It all depends on what your parents THINK, not what they ARE.

                                Quoth wolfie View Post
                                The only people who would consider me to be Jewish are the German government from the mid '30s to the mid '40s...
                                Or anyone else who is anti-Semitic, such as the KKK or any other idiotic bigoted prejudiced racist asshole group.

                                Quoth Kittish View Post
                                Momentary derailment of topic- who in their right minds puts FLOUR into alfredo or cheese sauces?
                                I've seen many recipes that called for flour in alfredo sauce. Just saying.

                                Quoth Kittish View Post
                                Cream, yes. Parmesan, romano, fontina, provolone, cheddar, and other cheeses, HELL yes.
                                Who in their right minds puts CHEDDAR CHEESE into alfredo sauce?!?!?!?

                                Quoth Seraph View Post
                                If you do try fish oil pills, take it from me, get the "burpless" ones.
                                What are burpless ones? And would they say so on the labels of generic brand fish oil pills?

                                Quoth Tama View Post
                                It's a really good thing to see you handling this this way.

                                If more people could handle this like you are, there would be happier people everywhere.

                                So, you don't know me, I don't know you except from your party-guy, happy-man posting...but...I'm proud of you. (And I'm almost half your age )
                                I have two questions. First, how am I handling it that has you in such a proud, pat-me-on-the-back state? Some would say I'm in a state of denial, but frankly, I am just dealing with it the way I would deal with most things....I fit it into my life the way I fit most info in....as it suits me.

                                Secondly, how old are you, precisely? (And if it ends up being not inappropriate because of whatever age you are, are you single? )

                                Quoth Cookie View Post
                                The only two reasons I see not to is if you have an aversion to taking pills, or if you're like me and just have trouble remembering the damn things.
                                I have no major aversion to taking pills, but my memory is just this side of horrible, and it would honestly take me some time to remember to take a certain pill every single day.

                                Quoth Dasota View Post
                                You sound like you eat a lot healthier than the majority of people out there, and taking it to such an extreme sounds like it would make you unhappy.
                                I do. And it would.

                                Quoth Seshat View Post
                                I'm so bloody jealous of you for having a decent body, instead of the damn lemon I'm stuck with.
                                Two things.

                                First, the same genetic lottery that gave me this decent body you are jealous of also gave me this completely fried cholesterol level, as this is clearly genetic. (Good cholesterol is more a result of genetics than habits, dietary or otherwise.)

                                Secondly, your comment reminds me of my friend's drawing that I saw this morning. He was drawing in his drawing book while we were drinking bloodys (it's Sunday!), and he showed me this tattoo he had designed. It was a Sunkist lemon with a banner over it reading "Bring it on!" 'Nuff said.

                                Quoth BlaqueKatt View Post
                                And as far as lying to your mom, just explain if she asks, that the numbers were a bit off or high, and that you were given options to fix it, and you're working on it(hey cutting down from eating bacon 7 days a week to 6 is working on it, it's just a slow change, she doesn't need to know you don't plan on cutting out another bacon day until 5 years from now, and doesn't need to know your not following the advice to the letter, it's medical advice, not medical orders)
                                The numbers weren't a bit off or a bit high...they were extremely so in both ways.

                                I may or may not be working on it...right now I am just considering things. Closest I've come to actually working on it is the fact that I did not add a side of bacon to my bloody this morning as I normally do. Shocked bothy my friends AND the bartender, who had gotten used to seeing me stick strips of bacon in my bloody.

                                I don't eat bacon every day, or even every other day, but I DO enjoy the hell out of it.

                                Finally, it wasn't medical advice, it WAS medical orders from the doc. He did not say he was suggesting this, he told me that This Is What I Would Be Doing. Part of the reason I am resisting it so much.

                                That and because bacon is so awesome.

                                "The Customer Is Always Right...But The Bartender Decides Who Is
                                Still A Customer."

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