It took me this long to realize... (Aspergers related)

[Amina516]

..that my son may have Aspergers.

He's 11 and has been suffering from depression for at least 2 years. He's socially awkward, extremely so. Thats not all though. He:

*cant begin or maintain eye contact
*is unable to start or maintain conversations
*has shitty handwriting
*is totally unempathetic, regardless of situation
*tends to stand in the same weird posture, all the time
*doesnt get when im joking with him, or am being sarcastic with him
*he has NO inner monologue, therefore barely any friends b/c he literally says whats on his mind, all the time.
*He has one interest: videogames. He will talk you ear off in the most bizarre one sided conversations. He doesnt care if youre listenting either, he just talks.
*He has no idea how loud he is talking, I have to remind him to not shout at me as im usually right next to him.
*Took him forever to learn how to tie his shoes, and he still cant ride a bike.
*he also gets fixated on food, eating when hes not hungry. (though that can easily be due to the depression as well).
*he's very uncoordinated and extremely clumsy, spills things often, forgets that silverware or plates do not go in the trash, walks into the walls (his vision is fine).

Despite all this, hes in advanced classes at school. He excels at math, but hes developing a tendency to only do work that he deems interesting. Hes in 6th grade honors and I dont know if this is too much for him? He is the one that chose to go the honors route, believe me I didnt force him to.

Im at a loss. Listing all these traits here, it seems obvious but it took me this long to add them all up. I feel so stupid. Thoughts? I know a few board people have said they have a form of it or are familiar with it.

[Seshat]

Yup. He sounds like me.

Despite all this, hes in advanced classes at school. He excels at math, but hes developing a tendency to only do work that he deems interesting. Hes in 6th grade honors and I dont know if this is too much for him? He is the one that chose to go the honors route, believe me I didnt force him to.

No, it's not too much for him. The problem is that he doesn't see any reason to do work that isn't interesting. He has no comprehension of .. let me see if I can explain this....

All the apes are tribal. That's chimpanzees, bonobos and us; also gorillas, orangutan, baboon, and I think something else. I can't remember offhand.

Most of the apes are born with a kind of quasi-instinct. This instinct helps them to socialise with others in the tribe, to fit in. To pay attention to the social structure, so they know and care who their mother is, know and care where in the tribe's structure they are. So they pay attention to tribal politics, gossip, and other such information: knowing who the good gatherers are, who the tribal leader is, who is in favour and who is out of favour. Who you need to impress if you want some of the bananas she gathered, or some of the bamboo shoots he found.

Humans have this instinct as well. In us, over time, it has become more developed. (This may be part of the Great Leap Forward.) Humans with this instinct just know, without thinking about it, that if you want a great spear, you become friends with the guy who makes great spears. Also, that you need to know who his friends are, and not piss off too many of them either.

Humans with this instinct just know, without thinking about it, that they're part of a tribe, and need to pay attention to being part of a tribe. And that sometimes, that means doing things you're not actually personally interested in.


Humans without that instinct ... well. I don't have it. I taught myself to replace it with an intellectualised form.

But I had to actually think things through, study history and macroeconomics and sociology and a bit of anthropology and tribal development and - well, I needed to work out, for myself, just how interconnected human society is, before I could see myself as part of human society, and see any reason to do things I perceived as pointless, but which society wanted me to do.

And I certainly didn't do that at age 11.

For me, school was a place my parents made me go, where the adults made me participate in boring rituals that they said would teach me stuff, and the people my age alternately bullied and ignored me. Most of my real learning - and I say this even looking back - was done when I escaped to the library and taught myself.

There was no honours stream available to me. It's possible that the honours stream includes material he finds interesting: I hope so. If so, you're a luckier parent than mine were.

[Lyse]

You're not stupid - far from it. You see your son everyday and were there when these patterns first started - it's not surprising that you didn't realize that they were possible indications of something more than quirks. You were simply too close and too familiar.

There is a reason for some cliches: not seeing the forest for the trees, and hindsight being 20/20.

The really important thing is that you are aware now and able to explore options for him.

[trailerparkmedic]

Despite all this, hes in advanced classes at school. He excels at math, but hes developing a tendency to only do work that he deems interesting. Hes in 6th grade honors and I dont know if this is too much for him? He is the one that chose to go the honors route, believe me I didnt force him to.

Trust me, it's not too much for him. He's probably bored by his other classes--why put in the effort for annoying busy work assignments? I nearly failed multiple classes in high school because I refused to do homework when I easily got As on all of my tests. Problem was that homework counted for large parts of my grades.

I did much better after growing up a bit (and learning to suck up the BS) and going to college, where BS assignments are far less of the grade. The BS assignment thing is why I despise care plans so much.

[BlaqueKatt]

my advice is get him properly diagnosed, and find out what options are available for him. Many of the treatments are behavior based, and more focused on preventing later issues for the patient rather than "let's make them conform to society".

[ArcticChicken]

I nearly failed multiple classes in high school because I refused to do homework when I easily got As on all of my tests. Problem was that homework counted for large parts of my grades.

I dropped out of High School and got my GED because of that.

[Sapphire Silk]

Get your son tested.

And have hope. If he does have Aspberger's, cognative behavioral therapy can help.

I'd unwittingly done a lot of work to overcome my Asberger's in nursing school when I learned about therapeutic communication.

I'm not sure I agree that Aspies have NO empathy. Rather, I think we merely feel it and express it differently. Very often I feel flabbergasted by accusations that I "don't get" something. I do . . . I'm just not showing it in ways others can understand.

With training and practice, your son can learn how to interpret the body language of others and cope better with his peers.

[Geek King]

Ditto getting your son tested, but it could just be that your son is bored in normal classes. I was like that, when younger. I hated school because they kept redoing the same material over and over--until I got to the point where I could start the advanced track work, like algebra in eighth grade.

I also didn't have much in the way of friends, and I think it was because I may have matured a bit faster mentally than the other boys my age. I've always gotten along better with people older than I am, than people my own age. I was reading--and comprehending!--at a level well above my age group as well at that age. My mom loves to tell the stories at how exasperated my grade-school teachers were at every teacher's conference.

In short, you may just have a really bright kid on your hand. Maybe try encouraging some other "geek" hobbies, like role-playing games, or some complicated board games, to see if he takes to those. He may need an outlet for some of what is sloshing around in his head. Maybe see if you can indroduce him to some kids a couple years older, so he can talk to someone closer to his mental level.

Now I'm just going on. I do that when I hear about a kid that might be in the same position I was so many years ago. Just remember, our school system isn't set up to handle smart kids any more than it is to handle learning disabilities, although things are a bit better now. If it turns out he's just a smart little kid, he'll need more interaction with people he can talk to, and can answer his questions patiently. I was lucky to have my Dad to turn to. Lord knows I probably drove him crazy running to him everytime I needed a word defined, or some concept explained so I could understand a part of some book.

[Seshat]

Make sure there are books - fiction and non-fiction - beyond his nominal reading level available to him at home.

Give him (supervised, albiet perhaps 'lightly' supervised) access to the 'net, as well.

There's no harm in a kid like him learning about stuff like teratology (the study of deformations and defects) and it's exactly the sort of thing that might interest him in biology -- and EXACTLY the sort of thing that many people would censor away from kids like him (or like I was) because it 'would distress him'.

Yet an eleven year old boy may well be attracted to the study of 'gross' things like (forgive me if anyone's had one) 'harlequin children'; and an Aspie eleven year old boy will then go on to want to know how it happens ... and that leads into biology and genetics ... and that can lead him anywhere.

Similarly, giving him access to Niven and Pournelle's SF books can lead to their science-for-the-masses books can lead to fascination with both physics and sociology can lead to ....

well. You see what I'm trying to say, I think.

[Seshat]

Oh!

There is a phenomenon common to most geeks that we call 'geek focus'. You will probably have noticed it in your son.

Some new fascination comes along. We obsess over it. For a few weeks or a few months (in rare cases, years), EVERYTHING is about that topic. We study it while eating. Depending on the intensity of geek focus, we can forget to eat, to drink, to sleep, to spend time with loved ones - whatever.

Then we come out of the obsessive phase, but it's still a major interest.

Geek focus is a part of how our minds work. It's probably a maladaption (anything which causes an organism to forget to EAT isn't exactly pro-survival!), but it's a fact of life for someone like us.

It's the phase when the new topic is .. well, new. We're learning everything we can about it, we're examining it, we're fitting it into our cognitive structure. And it's part of what makes us capable of genius. (Modest, aren't I?)

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any way of preventing someone like us from having periodic 'geek focus' phases without 'breaking' who we are. However, we can be trained to be accepting of a family member or friend prompting us to eat, sleep, etc.

We can also be trained to have a computer prompt such things.

If you recognise this .. well. Please be kind. He literally cannot help having 'geek focus' stages. But he can be helped to make these phases an adaption, not a maladaption.

[Amina516]

Thank you all. I emailed his school guidance counselor about an evaluation shortly after I originally posted. I will call her today to follow up since she hasnt gotten back to me yet.

Geekking:

Ditto getting your son tested, but it could just be that your son is bored in normal classes. I was like that, when younger. I hated school because they kept redoing the same material over and over--until I got to the point where I could start the advanced track work, like algebra in eighth grade.

Hes in advanced classes and in the Gifted program on top of that. So as far as that, he's in as advanced classes as he's going to get where we are. He is bored, but not due to the course work being unchallenging (IMO, it is), hes bored b/c hes deemed it uninteresting. I had a talk with him and he may have gotten why his other schoolwork is necessary. We'll see.

Seshat, thank you for your view. IT really makes sense when you write it out. He has access to books everywhere (I am a book nerd ) and alot of my books are things he could possibly find interesting. He has read all of the Percy Jackson series, halfway through Harry Potter, has a subscription to Game Informer (have you ever read the articles? surprisingly informative), Eragon, appropriate manga etc. I could let him on the internet more, he has requested it, so Ill see what I can do. He loves chess, and plays chess with friends with his grandfather in Florida. I feel like im doing all the right things for him to succeed, of course im sure there are therapies (like Panacea mentioned) that Im not aware of, or unable to do myself.

Thank you all for your input TPM, Blaque, Panacea, Arctic, Lyse. Its amazing whats able to be overcome when you put your mind to it. Im hopeful. Ill update as Im able, hopefully after I talk to the counselor, which will hopefully be today or tomorrow.

(As is apparent, I suck at quoting multiple people... Lol)

[Moirae]

I think I have to agree with the other posters on here. I also think you're right. It is possible that you might have a genius on your hands, and he's just bored, but what you've described seems to be more than that.

Then again, real nerds and geeks tend not to be like other people. Its just that we're more focused on things like learning than we are in friends. I'm not autistic, at least I don't think I am, but I am most definitely a geek and a nerd (in that order).

Honestly, I have a really hard time making friends. I actually find that I don't like most people that I come into contact with and often feel like I'm talking over their heads in a conversation. I usually feel like I have to "dumb down" the words I use in a conversation so other people can understand what I'm saying, and it makes me incredibly frustrated. There's lots of reasons for all this, but a big one is that I feel I'm just plain smarter than most of the population.

Boy that sounds bad to say that. But it is the truth.

I like going on vacation to Dragon Con in Atlanta. Why? Because I'm usually around people I can relate to properly. I have friends there that I'm much closer to than those I see every day even though I only game with them a couple times a year.

Before my car accident, my IQ was 127 (bordering on genius if I remember right). Its lowered by maybe 5-10 points now depending on the topic.

Most people don't like the things that I like. They're hard to talk to. Oh, I'm emotional, and I know their emotions too, I just don't understand them sometimes.

If your son has a high IQ and difficulty relating to other people, he may just be really intelligent, and feel like other people can't understand him. Its not that there's something mentally wrong with him, he's just so intelligent that other people may not understand what he's talking about.

One thing too, nerds and geeks tend to get extremely involved with whatever they love the most. I love the term "geek focus" and it suits more than just Aspergers. It suits regular nerds and geeks too. I know I have that in spades, and I get focused on a subject and pursue it with abandon for however long it strikes my fancy.

Just to provide an example, growing up, I loved paleontology (dinosaurs). Loved it with a passion. I used to make models and draw pictures of them. I had tons of books and wanted to be a paleontologist. Then in my senior year I met a guy and put it aside, which I regret now. Later, I attempted college for it. I didn't finish it, but it wasn't because I couldn't do the work. Its that some of the classes were insanely boring, I saw no reason I was being forced to take them, and then a bunch of family stuff came up that was extremely upsetting.

Now, I still love it, but am not obsessed with it anymore. Seems to have moved on to MMO's now.

As far as I know, other nerds and geeks are often the same way as I am.

Anyway, I think I got my point across, even though I've rambled alot. Hope it made sense.

[Seshat]

He is bored, but not due to the course work being unchallenging (IMO, it is), hes bored b/c hes deemed it uninteresting.

If it's not challenging, it's not interesting. That's often - not always, but often - part of the way geeks think & feel.


A group of parents of 'Gifted & Talented children' tried to create a learning space for us, and give us interesting things to do. Dissect pig hearts, for instance, or have astronomy meets.

It all sounded perfectly interesting to them. But I already knew all the major structures of the heart, and could identify an M class variable from a G. I probably seemed incredibly ungrateful.

[Moirae]

If it's not challenging, it's not interesting. That's often - not always, but often - part of the way geeks think & feel.


A group of parents of 'Gifted & Talented children' tried to create a learning space for us, and give us interesting things to do. Dissect pig hearts, for instance, or have astronomy meets.

It all sounded perfectly interesting to them. But I already knew all the major structures of the heart, and could identify an M class variable from a G. I probably seemed incredibly ungrateful.

Seshat, I can relate. I LOVED biology classes. I remember sitting in class dissecting a fetal pig. I was having the time of my life because I found it all fascinating while the cutest boy in school (also captain of the basketball team) ran from class to throw up.

Oh yes, make it interesting. Make it fun. Make it challenging but not impossible. Give me a workout. Whatever you do, don't make it mundane.

One of the reasons I hate my current job so much is that its truly mind numbing work. The same data entry every single day with little variation equals boring.

[Amina516]

Well, the schools speech pathologist called me yesterday shortly after I posted yesterday. My son has been in speech therapy since he was 3, but this teacher is new to him this year. However, her time with him is very structured and focuses on his speech, so thats not enough of a social situation to observe him off of. He just has a hell of a time with some words, and his R's sound like W's. But apparently, shes is the one who evaluates social situations since most of that centers on talking to one another. So shes going to involve him in a weekly monitored lunch group, where he will sit and have conversations or play games in which conversation is necessary with other similar aged boys and be informally observed and evaluated that way. She was very understanding to my concerns .

The school guidance counselor then called me today. She gave me some agency names that may be able to evaluate Noel, apparently the school doesnt perform this kid of assessment. So she gave me outside agencies names, which were easily googleable. However, Im a little confused b/c I know the school district has contracted services with a special education company in the area. (His speech teacher is provided through them). Im lucky in that my mom works for them and she has knowledgeable friends, so Ill be able to go through them for my needs, b/c the other services are very expensive even with my insurance.

I just want a good assessment so I can formulate a game plan and help my son succeed. Thanks all.